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From: Palmer Dabbelt <palmer@dabbelt.com>
To: binutils@sourceware.org,         gcc-patches@gcc.gnu.org,
	libc-alpha@sourceware.org,         gdb-patches@sourceware.org
Subject: Supporting RISC-V Vendor Extensions in the GNU Toolchain
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 17:01:26 -0700 (PDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <mhng-3c41a28b-62ae-4ebb-8b97-47f2c0b45269@palmer-mbp2014> (raw)

[Sorry for cross-posting to a bunch of lists, I figured it'd be best to 
have all the discussions in one thread.]

We currently only support what is defined by official RISC-V 
specifications in the various GNU toolchain projects.  There's certainly 
some grey areas there, but in general that means not taking code that 
relies on drafts or vendor defined extensions, even if that would result 
in higher performance or more featured systems for users.

The original goal of these policies were to steer RISC-V implementers 
towards a common set of specifications, but over the last year or so 
it's become abundantly clear that this is causing more harm that good.  
All extant RISC-V systems rely on behaviors defined outside the official 
specifications, and while that's technically always been the case we've 
gotten to the point where trying to ignore that fact is impacting real 
users on real systems.  There's been consistent feedback from users that 
we're not meeting their needs, which can clearly be seen in the many out 
of tree patch sets in common use.

There's been a handful of discussions about this, but we've yet to have 
a proper discussion on the mailing lists.  From the various discussions 
I've had it seems that folks are broadly in favor of supporting vendor 
extensions, but the devil's always in the details with this sort of 
thing so I thought it'd be best to write something up so we can have a 
concrete discussion.

The idea is to start taking code that depends on vendor-defined behavior 
into the core GNU toolchain ports, as long as it meets the following 
criteria:

* An ISA manual is available that can be redistributed/archived, defines 
  the behaviors in question as one or more vendor-specific extensions, 
  and is clearly versioned.  The RISC-V foundation is setting various 
  guidelines around how vendor-defined extensions and instructions 
  should be named, we strongly suggest that vendors follow those 
  conventions whenever possible (this is all new, though, so exactly 
  what's necessary from vendor specifications will likely evolve as we 
  learn).
* There is a substantial user base that depends on the behavior in 
  question, which probably means there is hardware in the wild that 
  implements the extensions and users that require those extensions in 
  order for that hardware to be useful for common applications.  This is 
  always going to be a grey area, but it's essentially the same spot 
  everyone else is in.
* There is a mechanism for testing the code in question without direct 
  access to hardware, which in practice means a QEMU port (or whatever 
  simulator is relevant in the space and that folks use for testing) or 
  some community commitment to long-term availability of the hardware 
  for testing (something like the GCC compile farm, for example).
* It is possible to produce binaries that are compatible with all 
  upstream vendors' implementations.  That means we'll need mechanisms 
  to allow extensions from multiple vendors to be linked together and 
  then probed at runtime.  That's not to say that all binaries will be 
  compatible, as users are always free to skip the compatibility code 
  and there will be conflicting definitions of instruction encodings, 
  but we can at least provide users with the option of compatibility.

These are pretty loosely written on purpose, both because this is all 
new and because each project has its own set of contribution 
requirements so it's going to be all but impossible to have a single 
concrete set of rules that applies everywhere -- that's nothing specific 
to the vendor extensions (or even RISC-V), it's just life.  Specifically 
a major goal here is to balance the needs of users, both in the short 
term (ie, getting new hardware to work) and the long term (ie, the long 
term stability of their software).  We're not talking about taking code 
that can't be tested, hasn't been reviewed, isn't going to be supported 
long-term, or doesn't have a stable ABI; just dropping the specific 
requirement that a specification must be furnished by the RISC-V 
foundation in order to accept code.

Nothing is decided yet, so happy to hear any thought folks have.  This 
is certainly a very different development methodology than what we've 
done in the past and isn't something that should be entreated into 
lightly, so any comments are welcome.

             reply	other threads:[~2022-05-11  0:01 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 10+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-05-11  0:01 Palmer Dabbelt [this message]
2022-05-13 10:00 ` Christoph Müllner
2022-05-13 10:37   ` Philipp Tomsich
2022-05-15  1:21     ` Palmer Dabbelt
2022-05-16 12:32       ` Philipp Tomsich
2022-05-16  6:28     ` Andrew Waterman
2022-05-13 10:58   ` Florian Weimer
2022-05-13 11:24     ` Philipp Tomsich
2022-05-13 12:26     ` Christoph Müllner
2022-07-20 21:24 ` Palmer Dabbelt

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