From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp.centurylink.net (mail.onyx.syn-alias.com [206.152.134.66]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF8883857C7B for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 00:31:34 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org BF8883857C7B Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=digitalsignallabs.com Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=yates@digitalsignallabs.com X_CMAE_Category: , , X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=ULWj4xXy c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=+BvlVZVS74/p9mKwrR4qzg==:117 a=+BvlVZVS74/p9mKwrR4qzg==:17 a=CCpqsmhAAAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=y4yBn9ojGxQA:10 a=PPsO2EghCewA:10 a=eQrCS-SpgXYA:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=jU4qhlNgAAAA:8 a=yrnTiy7_AAAA:8 a=wP4TC0dl9gTJ37pGI0cA:9 a=vNUigwWtW10A1R8T:21 a=RsBP8aWTPS8EQdZd:21 a=2wkYanB4cVUA:10 a=VMx8RFd18TwT2CDsUWYA:9 a=MctdmwdQ60BpIC1J:21 a=6L9ArFqCkoZoGkQo:21 a=7ZxVhPYFOni6xuYf:21 a=ya5i7YzpaYYA:10 a=ul9cdbp4aOFLsgKbc677:22 a=_FVE-zBwftR9WsbkzFJk:22 a=d2wp0cl8BqqoVUBAGsA6:22 a=3-Y82sHD7zbcYdtIRHM-:22 a=p-dnK0njbqwfn1k4-x12:22 a=5EXng_2YBSJDjF3I7HXn:22 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine Feedback-ID: dfw:ctl:res:onyx X-Authed-Username: eWF0ZXNmcmVlZGFyYW5keUBjZW50dXJ5bGluay5uZXQ= Authentication-Results: smtp03.onyx.dfw.sync.lan smtp.user=yatesfreedarandy@centurylink.net; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received: from [64.98.102.7] ([64.98.102.7:52504] helo=galois.digitalsignallabs.com) by smtp.centurylink.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.25.56547 r(Core:3.6.25.0)) with ESMTPA id A1/E2-15807-5E44C4F5; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 20:31:34 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain (fv-nc-f7af8b91e1-234237-1.tingfiber.com [64.98.102.7]) by galois.digitalsignallabs.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 1E6FA2E0899; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 20:31:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Randy Yates To: sourcemaster@sourceware.org, crossgcc@sourceware.org Subject: Sourceware.Org Mailing Lists 20200830192428 Organization: Digital Signal Labs Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2020 20:31:32 -0400 Message-ID: <87zh6b8xln.fsf@digitalsignallabs.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20, HTML_MESSAGE, KAM_DMARC_STATUS, KAM_LAZY_DOMAIN_SECURITY, KAM_NUMSUBJECT, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_NONE, TXREP, URI_TRUNCATED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org Content-Type: text/plain X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: crossgcc@sourceware.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: crossgcc mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 00:31:36 -0000 This email refers to the mailing lists associated with https://sourceware.org/lists.html . On the page "Suggestions" it is stated: So, if, for some reason, there is an impediment to your using this site, whether psychological, moral, technical, or political, please let us know. I assume I am addressing Christopher Faylor. I take issue with your statement which was sent out to the crossgcc mailing list this evening: Subject: Unsubscribe problems apparently solved From: Christopher Faylor Date: 8/30/20, 4:19 PM To: crossgcc@sourceware.org Hi all, The two people for whom the unsubscribe instructions "did not work" apparently managed to follow the instructions and unsubscribe. Sorry for the noise. You'd think that a technical mailing list wouldn't have these types of problems. Btw, the name of this mailing list is "crossgcc". I don't know why something is adding "crosstool-ng" to the subject but it's not being done by sourceware.org. cgf (20 year sourceware.org volunteer admin) -- For unsubscribe information see http://sourceware.org/lists.html#faq The tenor of your message (e.g., `noise" and "these types of problems") implies we are idiots. I am a degreed electrical engineer and mathematician and have engineered hardware, systems, and software for some 40 years now (see https://www.linkedin.com/in/yatescr/ ). I submit that these problems are due to several bad server implementation decisions and poor site design in the web interface layout and text: 1. It is at least an unwritten rule in mailing list organization that all "shotgunned" messages include a prefix in the subject indicating the mailing list, e.g., [yocto- developer], [bacnet], [crossgcc], etc. However, the crossgcc mailing list does not. This should be corrected. 1 2. Why is the crossgcc list being used for crosstools-ng discussions? Why not have a separate list? crossgcc is only one of a number of utilities (binutils being another) which are commonly used for cross-platform development. 3. The sourceware.org mailing lists FAQ is poorly laid out. It does not flow well. (a) The order of the topics are not ordered by the most likely topics list subscribers want to address. (b) There is a block of information at the beginning (prior to the table of contents) that diverts the user's attention. It would be better placed in table of contents. (c) There is unwanted humor which must be ignored when attempting to find useful information. (d) The unsubscription link at the top is idempotent. (e) There are links which don't lead anywhere. 4. At the bottom of each shotgunned message is a footer/.sig: -- For unsubscribe information see http://sourceware.org/lists.html#faq That link simply leads you to the FAQ which is very general. It is for three different mail list servers, and a multitude of lists on each. This requires the user to drill down to the proper topic (unsubscribing), mail list server (sourceware.org), and mailing list (crossgcc) before they can actu- ally get to the meat of the unsubscription mechanism. Instead, the mail server could greatly simplify unsubscribing by generating a custom link for the server and list directly into the footer: https://sourceware.org/mailman/listinfo/crossgcc * * . ----Randy Yates 2 Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer Digital Signal Labs http://www.digitalsignallabs.com