* Sourceware.Org Mailing Lists 20200830192428 @ 2020-08-31 0:31 Randy Yates 2020-08-31 0:47 ` Bryan Hundven 2020-08-31 4:06 ` Christopher Faylor 0 siblings, 2 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Randy Yates @ 2020-08-31 0:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: sourcemaster, crossgcc This email refers to the mailing lists associated with https://sourceware.org/lists.html . On the page "Suggestions" it is stated: So, if, for some reason, there is an impediment to your using this site, whether psychological, moral, technical, or political, please let us know. I assume I am addressing Christopher Faylor. I take issue with your statement which was sent out to the crossgcc mailing list this evening: Subject: Unsubscribe problems apparently solved From: Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please@gcc.gnu.org> Date: 8/30/20, 4:19 PM To: crossgcc@sourceware.org Hi all, The two people for whom the unsubscribe instructions "did not work" apparently managed to follow the instructions and unsubscribe. Sorry for the noise. You'd think that a technical mailing list wouldn't have these types of problems. Btw, the name of this mailing list is "crossgcc". I don't know why something is adding "crosstool-ng" to the subject but it's not being done by sourceware.org. cgf (20 year sourceware.org volunteer admin) -- For unsubscribe information see http://sourceware.org/lists.html#faq The tenor of your message (e.g., `noise" and "these types of problems") implies we are idiots. I am a degreed electrical engineer and mathematician and have engineered hardware, systems, and software for some 40 years now (see https://www.linkedin.com/in/yatescr/ ). I submit that these problems are due to several bad server implementation decisions and poor site design in the web interface layout and text: 1. It is at least an unwritten rule in mailing list organization that all "shotgunned" messages include a prefix in the subject indicating the mailing list, e.g., [yocto- developer], [bacnet], [crossgcc], etc. However, the crossgcc mailing list does not. This should be corrected. 1 \f 2. Why is the crossgcc list being used for crosstools-ng discussions? Why not have a separate list? crossgcc is only one of a number of utilities (binutils being another) which are commonly used for cross-platform development. 3. The sourceware.org mailing lists FAQ is poorly laid out. It does not flow well. (a) The order of the topics are not ordered by the most likely topics list subscribers want to address. (b) There is a block of information at the beginning (prior to the table of contents) that diverts the user's attention. It would be better placed in table of contents. (c) There is unwanted humor which must be ignored when attempting to find useful information. (d) The unsubscription link at the top is idempotent. (e) There are links which don't lead anywhere. 4. At the bottom of each shotgunned message is a footer/.sig: -- For unsubscribe information see http://sourceware.org/lists.html#faq That link simply leads you to the FAQ which is very general. It is for three different mail list servers, and a multitude of lists on each. This requires the user to drill down to the proper topic (unsubscribing), mail list server (sourceware.org), and mailing list (crossgcc) before they can actu- ally get to the meat of the unsubscription mechanism. Instead, the mail server could greatly simplify unsubscribing by generating a custom link for the server and list directly into the footer: https://sourceware.org/mailman/listinfo/crossgcc * * . ----Randy Yates 2 Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer Digital Signal Labs http://www.digitalsignallabs.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: Sourceware.Org Mailing Lists 20200830192428 2020-08-31 0:31 Sourceware.Org Mailing Lists 20200830192428 Randy Yates @ 2020-08-31 0:47 ` Bryan Hundven 2020-08-31 4:06 ` Christopher Faylor 1 sibling, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Bryan Hundven @ 2020-08-31 0:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Randy Yates; +Cc: sourcemaster, crossgcc maillist Randy, On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 5:33 PM Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> wrote: > This email refers to the mailing lists associated with > https://sourceware.org/lists.html . > > > On the page "Suggestions" it is stated: > > > So, if, for some reason, there is an impediment to your using this > site, > whether psychological, moral, technical, or political, please let > us know. > > > I assume I am addressing Christopher Faylor. I take issue with your > statement which > was sent out to the crossgcc mailing list this evening: > > > Subject: > Unsubscribe problems apparently solved > From: > Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please@gcc.gnu.org> > Date: > 8/30/20, 4:19 PM > To: crossgcc@sourceware.org > > > Hi all, > The two people for whom the unsubscribe instructions "did not > work" > apparently managed to follow the instructions and unsubscribe. > > > Sorry for the noise. You'd think that a technical mailing list > wouldn't > have these types of problems. > > > Btw, the name of this mailing list is "crossgcc". I don't > know why > something is adding "crosstool-ng" to the subject but it's not > being > done by sourceware.org. > > > cgf > (20 year sourceware.org volunteer admin) > > > -- > For unsubscribe information see http://sourceware.org/lists.html#faq > > > The tenor of your message (e.g., `noise" and "these types of problems") > implies we > are idiots. I am a degreed electrical engineer and mathematician and have > engineered > hardware, systems, and software for some 40 years now (see > https://www.linkedin.com/in/yatescr/ ). > I submit that these problems are due to several bad server implementation > decisions > and poor site design in the web interface layout and text: > > I meant nothing in offense to sourceware, and I was suggesting that we should remove our changes from the mailing list and keep crosstool-ng on github.com, as that seems to be the reason that people want to unsubscribe from the list. > > 1. It is at least an unwritten rule in mailing list organization that > all "shotgunned" > messages include a prefix in the subject indicating the mailing > list, e.g., [yocto- > developer], [bacnet], [crossgcc], etc. However, the crossgcc > mailing list does > not. This should be corrected. > > > > 1 > > We have already corrected crosstool-ng to no longer mail crossgcc, again, I apologize for my poor use of words. I mean no harm. > > > > 2. Why is the crossgcc list being used for crosstools-ng > discussions? Why not > have a separate list? crossgcc is only one of a number of > utilities (binutils > being another) which are commonly used for cross-platform > development. > > Again, crosstool-ng development used to happen on this mailing list (for as far back as I can remember), and we are correcting that now. > 3. The sourceware.org mailing lists FAQ is poorly laid out. It does > not flow well. > > > (a) The order of the topics are not ordered by the > most likely topics list > subscribers want to address. > > (b) There is a block of information at the beginning (prior to > the table of > contents) that diverts the user's attention. It would be > better placed in > table of contents. > > (c) There is unwanted humor which must be ignored when > attempting to > find useful information. > > (d) The unsubscription link at the top is idempotent. > > (e) There are links which don't lead anywhere. > > I don't know how to respond to this... I have no administrative ability on this mailing list. How can I be of service to help this? I want to be helpful! > > 4. At the bottom of each shotgunned message is a footer/.sig: > > > -- > For unsubscribe information see > http://sourceware.org/lists.html#faq > > > That link simply leads you to the FAQ which is very general. It > is for three > different mail list servers, and a multitude of lists on each. > > This requires the user to drill down to the proper topic > (unsubscribing), mail > list server (sourceware.org), and mailing list (crossgcc) before > they can actu- > ally get to the meat of the unsubscription mechanism. > > Instead, the mail server could greatly simplify unsubscribing by > generating a > custom link for the server and list directly into the footer: > https://sourceware.org/mailman/listinfo/crossgcc * > * . > > Randy, again, I apologize. I was trying to find someone that can help, as I have no control over the mailing list, the faq or anything on sourceware. I do have control over how crosstool-ng messages out, and again, we have corrected that and will no longer message to crossgcc. I am 100% honest in my sincerity, and was trying to help. I hope you can forgive me. > > > ----Randy Yates > > > > 2 > Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer > Digital Signal Labs > http://www.digitalsignallabs.com > -- > For unsubscribe information see http://sourceware.org/lists.html#faq -Bryan Hundven Admin/Co-Maintainer of Crosstool-NG ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: Sourceware.Org Mailing Lists 20200830192428 2020-08-31 0:31 Sourceware.Org Mailing Lists 20200830192428 Randy Yates 2020-08-31 0:47 ` Bryan Hundven @ 2020-08-31 4:06 ` Christopher Faylor 2020-08-31 4:19 ` Chris Punches 1 sibling, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: Christopher Faylor @ 2020-08-31 4:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: crossgcc Just in case someone is thinking about jumping in to further a discussion about mailing list design in the crossgcc mailing list - please don't. I'll be blocking off-topic discussions as I see them. Is there an actual cross-whatever project administrator reading this group? With the move to new mailing list software at sourceware.org we now have the ability to have someone besides the global adminstrators control many of the knobs and levers. If someone wants to volunteer to take over this mailing list please send email to crossgcc-owner. cgf ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: Sourceware.Org Mailing Lists 20200830192428 @ 2020-08-31 4:19 ` Chris Punches 2020-08-31 4:35 ` Chris Punches 0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: Chris Punches @ 2020-08-31 4:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: crossgcc ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: Sourceware.Org Mailing Lists 20200830192428 2020-08-31 4:19 ` Chris Punches @ 2020-08-31 4:35 ` Chris Punches 0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Chris Punches @ 2020-08-31 4:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: crossgcc apologies for the cross-post. unintentional. please delete if possible. :) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2020-08-31 4:35 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 5+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2020-08-31 0:31 Sourceware.Org Mailing Lists 20200830192428 Randy Yates 2020-08-31 0:47 ` Bryan Hundven 2020-08-31 4:06 ` Christopher Faylor 2020-08-31 4:19 ` Chris Punches 2020-08-31 4:35 ` Chris Punches
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