From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oo1-xc2a.google.com (mail-oo1-xc2a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c2a]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DAD363858D35; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 00:47:30 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org DAD363858D35 Received: by mail-oo1-xc2a.google.com with SMTP id h9so1055516ooo.10; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 17:47:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=cIdzldhid+mpnVnLbnvoM2M5qIdehKyng4y+vnIUVlY=; b=rxmqXLmcqiKWXkZS6KNAiFF7azwAGhNS3ZOgJclWwm6nRURVSnoVfoj4+l2vvrLtVM efShZDfeDkWqRFZiC/O38VwGSfOzl9m1qgZUUrCTzA+Ncsus/W4mL9BaLIdiJi/n2FRj io+YGT18gzX+l7e5eN1RhpTBHHIcBF8cavRCWomcGrM8tPousxUjd1fcdM1G91fm2Evk 70eEk51RmJGZAWnQBH+tcyN8uXSMBhR4S1jubkOL4r3RGOFk0KIRF4MJdgZfklK8JvaA xKRHGGSm3n/K0JiqKjepC6/8qtwtyYoHLBgWsSNnNE+/Zt/UfbCzEQkoObUpVb0IEs6j SxTA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53127UDjBz2qiufUm/OpzWDVJL1nMfiQ/b8GzVBrp4ROtpytDlkp TnDYjMg/HBtk1lAKBjljI/tEVed8K5S1lhTXuO7Q6QH8bL1JFg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJybTDifxGa/HRnyOaUF6KEZg/xbaL+xHOmr4I9s0Rwdh0JVdwljI8sg5vB9Mg3FV5qPXDSWtoeyhVxhNAz/xyE= X-Received: by 2002:a4a:2854:: with SMTP id c20mr6196631oof.65.1598834850000; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 17:47:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87zh6b8xln.fsf@digitalsignallabs.com> In-Reply-To: <87zh6b8xln.fsf@digitalsignallabs.com> From: Bryan Hundven Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2020 17:47:19 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Sourceware.Org Mailing Lists 20200830192428 To: Randy Yates Cc: sourcemaster@sourceware.org, crossgcc maillist X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, DKIM_VALID_EF, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, KAM_NUMSUBJECT, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: crossgcc@sourceware.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: crossgcc mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 00:47:32 -0000 Randy, On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 5:33 PM Randy Yates wrote: > This email refers to the mailing lists associated with > https://sourceware.org/lists.html . > > > On the page "Suggestions" it is stated: > > > So, if, for some reason, there is an impediment to your using this > site, > whether psychological, moral, technical, or political, please let > us know. > > > I assume I am addressing Christopher Faylor. I take issue with your > statement which > was sent out to the crossgcc mailing list this evening: > > > Subject: > Unsubscribe problems apparently solved > From: > Christopher Faylor > Date: > 8/30/20, 4:19 PM > To: crossgcc@sourceware.org > > > Hi all, > The two people for whom the unsubscribe instructions "did not > work" > apparently managed to follow the instructions and unsubscribe. > > > Sorry for the noise. You'd think that a technical mailing list > wouldn't > have these types of problems. > > > Btw, the name of this mailing list is "crossgcc". I don't > know why > something is adding "crosstool-ng" to the subject but it's not > being > done by sourceware.org. > > > cgf > (20 year sourceware.org volunteer admin) > > > -- > For unsubscribe information see http://sourceware.org/lists.html#faq > > > The tenor of your message (e.g., `noise" and "these types of problems") > implies we > are idiots. I am a degreed electrical engineer and mathematician and have > engineered > hardware, systems, and software for some 40 years now (see > https://www.linkedin.com/in/yatescr/ ). > I submit that these problems are due to several bad server implementation > decisions > and poor site design in the web interface layout and text: > > I meant nothing in offense to sourceware, and I was suggesting that we should remove our changes from the mailing list and keep crosstool-ng on github.com, as that seems to be the reason that people want to unsubscribe from the list. > > 1. It is at least an unwritten rule in mailing list organization that > all "shotgunned" > messages include a prefix in the subject indicating the mailing > list, e.g., [yocto- > developer], [bacnet], [crossgcc], etc. However, the crossgcc > mailing list does > not. This should be corrected. > > > > 1 > > We have already corrected crosstool-ng to no longer mail crossgcc, again, I apologize for my poor use of words. I mean no harm. > > > > 2. Why is the crossgcc list being used for crosstools-ng > discussions? Why not > have a separate list? crossgcc is only one of a number of > utilities (binutils > being another) which are commonly used for cross-platform > development. > > Again, crosstool-ng development used to happen on this mailing list (for as far back as I can remember), and we are correcting that now. > 3. The sourceware.org mailing lists FAQ is poorly laid out. It does > not flow well. > > > (a) The order of the topics are not ordered by the > most likely topics list > subscribers want to address. > > (b) There is a block of information at the beginning (prior to > the table of > contents) that diverts the user's attention. It would be > better placed in > table of contents. > > (c) There is unwanted humor which must be ignored when > attempting to > find useful information. > > (d) The unsubscription link at the top is idempotent. > > (e) There are links which don't lead anywhere. > > I don't know how to respond to this... I have no administrative ability on this mailing list. How can I be of service to help this? I want to be helpful! > > 4. At the bottom of each shotgunned message is a footer/.sig: > > > -- > For unsubscribe information see > http://sourceware.org/lists.html#faq > > > That link simply leads you to the FAQ which is very general. It > is for three > different mail list servers, and a multitude of lists on each. > > This requires the user to drill down to the proper topic > (unsubscribing), mail > list server (sourceware.org), and mailing list (crossgcc) before > they can actu- > ally get to the meat of the unsubscription mechanism. > > Instead, the mail server could greatly simplify unsubscribing by > generating a > custom link for the server and list directly into the footer: > https://sourceware.org/mailman/listinfo/crossgcc * > * . > > Randy, again, I apologize. I was trying to find someone that can help, as I have no control over the mailing list, the faq or anything on sourceware. I do have control over how crosstool-ng messages out, and again, we have corrected that and will no longer message to crossgcc. I am 100% honest in my sincerity, and was trying to help. I hope you can forgive me. > > > ----Randy Yates > > > > 2 > Randy Yates, DSP/Embedded Firmware Developer > Digital Signal Labs > http://www.digitalsignallabs.com > -- > For unsubscribe information see http://sourceware.org/lists.html#faq -Bryan Hundven Admin/Co-Maintainer of Crosstool-NG