From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from relay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0014.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.14]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A9EB3858D1E for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2024 18:35:31 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.2 sourceware.org 6A9EB3858D1E Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=SystematicSW.ab.ca Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=SystematicSW.ab.ca ARC-Filter: OpenARC Filter v1.0.0 sourceware.org 6A9EB3858D1E Authentication-Results: server2.sourceware.org; arc=none smtp.remote-ip=216.40.44.14 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=sourceware.org; s=key; t=1711650933; cv=none; b=UhkfU0nGOflO7gk3RggtGxjurjuQ+NV/Z4H7LFXHGHnoYNzu66EWPt7MuYPqtUTGAl9wNxK6CvckyWSEa01wuKz0oPxmTLnbgnUPs+uz/NmLnm5A/EjWdK+PO5/pORGWyDXdx3cSrBCzDTCzNXXYoSFFynLGlTrISnr2Wj3Ifws= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=sourceware.org; s=key; t=1711650933; c=relaxed/simple; bh=L+kWvMvWMGnMhD/mdsnOZMy1iwloMNFtt84IUHq08w8=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:From; b=c5nJA2q2hyO7TwTVVebT62MU3Re5nsFNhLXEKDHhcYGYBH1EWXav8wj8KIsdAT+V5xYmhBFAGu0L9IaSW4ywWnOFTZtsbq6mEN8bpGtgym7ya9J2D/aD9rICrGbLrurZRuPX+O5xx3PTJTMzl7RCMv/eEdPq5LtHlLDJGVbDabo= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; server2.sourceware.org Received: from omf11.hostedemail.com (a10.router.float.18 [10.200.18.1]) by unirelay09.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D26CD80EA3 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2024 18:35:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [HIDDEN] (Authenticated sender: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSW.ab.ca) by omf11.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 5057B2002F for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2024 18:35:29 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <0ac120b6-b4f5-4ee1-bdd5-ab7735e67b13@SystematicSW.ab.ca> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 12:35:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Reply-To: cygwin-apps@cygwin.com Subject: Re: [tz] Ubuntu drops old-style links - tzdata split test package Content-Language: en-CA To: cygwin-apps@cygwin.com References: <86ff5be5-ccae-4bc0-81af-46abc54e549d@systematicsw.ab.ca> <14e3ae03-bacf-4946-badc-19de78d9eece@SystematicSW.ab.ca> <88dd91a6-5fde-49a7-a0a5-afd5e9b01e15@SystematicSW.ab.ca> From: Brian Inglis Organization: Systematic Software In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5057B2002F X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,KAM_DMARC_STATUS,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS,TXREP,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 X-Stat-Signature: 41rqdqe9dfoidgb1np6sm36xfdcyrru9 X-Rspamd-Server: rspamout01 X-Session-Marker: 427269616E2E496E676C69734053797374656D6174696353572E61622E6361 X-Session-ID: U2FsdGVkX19nYZ6+bK2gbMXbQjLfqkowumaXT+dXwGs= X-HE-Tag: 1711650929-851511 X-HE-Meta: U2FsdGVkX1+dkdICnd0ObEh7+SwzAlCyaHu2eZtW/k0mSmuj1EFHViIgzmLFeBszbO6xnd/yeJX/Oe8Cb0NGlHQqVa04hAdrC4NYi59fsvPFI1PLTy1ELE1ZSXEAlvfRlKgxD3DIiYeGfyi6DfbGuPG8ZBHkbbeoj1WUk2+ySJHrHJiy+233ZmKRWyv5BN4FgGyikEs/2CkSVxlEoJ6Pinf5x0FaOv0Q7B8zJ/xhQ5hOLOgq9cBlOsqr82qVQJn5T1hUO0BasBtp0CNyu7wTnZS0rSY9F8zKkU3TLS2HrvrBdObZ2HTl6i6YkCJD7jFzWJDj5LGXWUVkapShJ1qC5x9ds8jNk/DHGmECUlnsRfVUPvCvzEPzIqOgkqWfBD15qNXQVfqrHV0YuoKSFD+KTG+zn96kwZVU/ZhTPg862VU4re74eQ7tfg== X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on server2.sourceware.org List-Id: On 2024-03-28 04:13, Corinna Vinschen via Cygwin-apps wrote: > On Mar 28 02:25, Brian Inglis via Cygwin-apps wrote: >> I have released and announced a test package of tzdata 2024a-2 split into >> three install packages: base tzdata, optional tzdata-right, and redundant >> tzdata-posix, each containing all the legacy zones so that tzset continues >> to work as before. >> >> I could not reduce the base installed zones by many, because most were used >> by tzset, but I did drop a couple of large zone source files, produced by >> the build, that were previously included to allow users to see the source >> zones, rules, and links in effect, saving ~1MB, and dropping the overall >> default base installed file sizes by ~80% to ~20% of current, and download >> tar size by ~60% to ~40%; for all zones aggregate total installed file sizes >> are dropped by ~35% to ~65%, and download tar sizes by ~30% to ~70% of >> current: >> >> install tar tzdata >> 721KB 172KB base >> 984KB 78KB right >> 669KB 74KB posix >> 1367KB 444KB source >> 3667KB 452KB current >> >> Please check out the announcement, cygwin list echo, source and install >> package summary web pages, cygport changes, setup entries, scallywag builds, >> and let me know if there is anything you see that could benefit from >> improvement. > > Fedora Rawhide is not following this scheme. For F40 and F41 it still > prepares single tzdata packages. FWIW, OpenSuSE also only comes with a > single timezone package in Tumbleweed. > > Comparing the Cygwin and the Fedora package, the only differences are: > > Cygwin comes with two files not in the Fedora package: > > /usr/share/zoneinfo/rearguard.zi Source tzdata zones, rules, links, - driven by tzdata make symbol settings, - in legacy tzdata format supported by newlib-cygwin libc, - generated as base zic input source to provide all the legacy zones used by tzset, and - allows users to view the tzdata rules in effect for their zone(s) of interest; - dropped in the test package, - along with tzdata.zi, which is the abbreviated generated source file used by zic to build the zoneinfo subtrees, - driven also by zic parameters for each subtree, almost identical to Fedora: https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/tzdata/blob/rawhide/f/tzdata.spec - except they still use the deprecated obsolete yearistype shell script with zic, supporting deprecated obsolete US presidential and odd/even year rules. Once we know that the libc code is updated to support the new zic output data ranges, we could transition to main or vanguard source formats and slim output formats, as long as the required tzset zone files are still generated in those formats. This is the same as provided in RHEL, see notes on tzdata-2018e in: https://access.redhat.com/articles/1187353 and Fedora https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/tzdata/blob/rawhide/f/tzdata.spec > /usr/share/zoneinfo/zonenow.tab Compare the RH notes, Fedora tzdata.spec embedded changelog, cygport git log, and cygwin-announce upstream release notes, for similar information. New minimal tzdata zone selection which builds *only* the minimal zones required to provide current time around the world, but may require selection of a different zone; supported by make and in /bin/tzselect by undocumented -t zonetabtype option. > Fedora comes with two files not in the Cygwin package: > > /usr/share/zoneinfo/leap-seconds.list IERS/NIST upstream NTP leap-seconds.list PD distribution file: we provide only the tzdata format leapseconds file in /usr/share/zoneinfo/, generated from the NTP list, instead; that way we do not need to specify another licence, which appears not to be stated in: https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/tzdata/blob/rawhide/f/tzdata.spec > /usr/share/zoneinfo/posixrules Deprecated obsolete legacy rules: see tzdata-2020b notes discussing patch to provide this in: https://access.redhat.com/articles/1187353 and 2020d-3 notes in: https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/tzdata/blob/rawhide/f/tzdata.spec > That's all. And given that space is not one of the major limiting > factors anymore... > > cyg$ du -sh /usr/share/zoneinfo > 6.6M /usr/share/zoneinfo > > fed$ du -sh /usr/share/zoneinfo > 4.6M /usr/share/zoneinfo > > ...I do wonder a bit if this split is really necessary after all. It cuts the base install (--apparent) size by ~3MB to 721KB, time and load for this by a factor of 5, for mirrors, CI, and other repetitive container and packaged build server installs like ansible, docker, scallywag, etc. Few users are likely to use any of the right or redundant posix subtrees, unless they have astrophysics or time/frequency physics interests. Astronomers and astrologers, CLDR, ICU, and Cygwin Windows tzmap are better served by providing all the legacy zones. FYI: The primary maintainer of tzcode/tzdata is an Ubuntu user, and keen to drop as much of the legacy and what he considers as questionable history as possible, despite a project data fork to maintain that, which we may have to look at in the future for legacy tzmap compatibility, so looking at what we are doing is useful in any case! What CLDR provides seems to be less than great, from what I have seen and read, so I *might* decide to take a look sometime at better mappings of Windows zones to the different zone{,1970,now}.tab tables, perhaps starting from PostGres efforts mentioned earlier. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry