From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from omta001.cacentral1.a.cloudfilter.net (omta001.cacentral1.a.cloudfilter.net [3.97.99.32]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 628F038582A1 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 21:06:55 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.1 sourceware.org 628F038582A1 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=SystematicSw.ab.ca Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=systematicsw.ab.ca Received: from shw-obgw-4001a.ext.cloudfilter.net ([10.228.9.142]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id u5s9o0XOHMsxDuKBqok5sn; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 21:06:54 +0000 Received: from [10.0.0.5] ([184.64.124.72]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id uKBporIYpibmAuKBqoDaMb; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 21:06:54 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=YPCMdDKx c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=63715c6e a=oHm12aVswOWz6TMtn9zYKg==:117 a=oHm12aVswOWz6TMtn9zYKg==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=2HDc9aTLv3WXGTRraXYA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 Message-ID: <1ea397cd-9481-94d9-339a-8530effa6a85@SystematicSw.ab.ca> Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2022 14:06:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.1 Reply-To: cygwin-apps@cygwin.com Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable Content-Language: en-CA To: cygwin-apps@cygwin.com From: Brian Inglis Organization: Systematic Software Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfE6xj/ZADyRgobPB//+1IB1jt4wr6JkUU41ECBQxlKn1AvkF/i8VuxzDN2N8uj9EwkapFyBBN8ZqnlAwiHsoJuSD5l4NUT/pj+5o2moP41gC+EAnHSZ3 W6N1Yr6lotd+E4kpXGdDvBJmXPLx3vbKPs3Vl5DMacHd3ZtWc8O5ypTyVoljMQGjN1p+/kBahv8IdX0nIIuTmdcY8KOmTtaF6FM= X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1163.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,KAM_DMARC_STATUS,KAM_LAZY_DOMAIN_SECURITY,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_NONE,TXREP autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on server2.sourceware.org List-Id: On 2022-11-13 10:09, Thomas Wolff wrote: > Am 04.11.2022 um 20:27 schrieb Corinna Vinschen: >> On Nov  4 13:07, Brian Inglis wrote: >>> On Thu, 03 Nov 2022 19:31:27 +0100, Achim Gratz wrote: >>>> Brian Inglis writes: >>>>> Suggest that I could come up with a package grep-nowarn which can only >>>>> suppress the [ef]grep warnings, where the package would install >>>>> [ef]grep-nowarn, and the postinstall script could rename the >>>>> distributed shell scripts to [ef]grep-warn, and install alternatives >>>>> with -warn priority 10, -nowarn priority 20; preremove would reverse >>>>> the process. >>>>> >>>>> Suggestions to accommodate -nowarn from grep package postinstall? >>>>> I could supply the same postinstall and preremove as -nowarn to check >>>>> for -nowarn and install or uninstall the alternative. >>>>> >>>>> Sequence or timing issues to watch out for during postinstall/preremove? >>>> As Corinna already said, why GNU suddenly cares so much about strict >>>> POSIX conformance in this case is puzzling.  If anything they should >>>> have left the decision to packagers and IMNHO the warning should only be >>>> presented when POSIXLY_CORRECT is set in the environment, if at all. >>>> The patch to the wrapper script(s) in question is trivial and several >>>> Linux distributions have removed the warning already (if you do this, >>>> also change the interpreter from bash to dash).  Just skip any >>>> extra packages and do the same. >>> The issue does not appear to be about POSIX compliance, but that [ef]grep >>> were dropped from POSIX before 2008 and declared obsolescent, so the >>> maintainers appear to be looking to drop those commands/scripts. >> This is a usability issue.  If upstream thinks they have to do such a >> potentially destructive and backward-incompatible change for no other >> reason than "is not in POSIX", they can do so, but there's no good >> reason the distros who *care* for usability have to do this either. >> >>> You could perhaps reach out to Eric Blake or Jim Meyering who are in the GNU >>> grep contributor lists for rationale. >>> >>> While Debian and OpenSuSE have reverted that change, Fedora has not in main >>> or rawhide. >> Right, Debian and OpenSuSE revert the change and the BSDs will not break >> e/fgrep either, obviously.  I doubt Ubuntu will do that.  Fedora often >> values progress, for a given value of "progress", higher than usability. >> They will probably see lots of Bugzillas and user requests in other >> forums due to this change and then ignore them.  But that doesn't mean >> we have to do it. >> >> Again: Egrep and fgrep are used in lots of scripts around the world.  A >> change like this will have a massive impact for years to come. >> >> So, again, in the name of usability, let's follow Debian and OpenSuSE >> here, not Fedora, please. > @Brian, as a grep package maintainer, can you *please* make a trivial patch to > remove the grep crap as Corinna suggested and upload an updated package *today*, > as Jon Turney threatens to freeze the x86 repository tomorrow? I am trying to do so, but getting weird test artifacts locally, so retrying in hopes that they will complete normally. If there are still issues, I will look at deploying from Scallywag, as those builds completed cleanly. I am also trying to clean up a couple of other package issues, and hopefully don't mess up anything else trying to get these done without any time for actual use. My system is fully loaded running only a single build, and each can take over an hour, about the same time as Scallywag, but without any arch parallelism. [Being the weekend, there are also other things to do and people to see.] -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry