From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 35030 invoked by alias); 10 Aug 2015 18:41:53 -0000 Mailing-List: contact cygwin-apps-help@cygwin.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk Sender: cygwin-apps-owner@cygwin.com List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Mail-Followup-To: cygwin-apps@cygwin.com Received: (qmail 35020 invoked by uid 89); 10 Aug 2015 18:41:53 -0000 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; auth=none X-Virus-Found: No X-Spam-SWARE-Status: No, score=0.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_50,KAM_LAZY_DOMAIN_SECURITY,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=no version=3.3.2 X-HELO: etr-usa.com Received: from etr-usa.com (HELO etr-usa.com) (130.94.180.135) by sourceware.org (qpsmtpd/0.93/v0.84-503-g423c35a) with ESMTP; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 18:41:52 +0000 Received: (qmail 41947 invoked by uid 13447); 10 Aug 2015 18:41:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO polypore.west.etr-usa.com) ([73.26.17.49]) (envelope-sender ) by 130.94.180.135 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 10 Aug 2015 18:41:49 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2102\)) Subject: Re: setup From: Warren Young In-Reply-To: <87h9o7rpfc.fsf@Rainer.invalid> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 18:41:00 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <247FF131-2986-4F70-B138-FB8802C9B93A@etr-usa.com> References: <87vbcwfdvw.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <87r3nkfaxn.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <87mvy8f8dz.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <20150803202908.GI17917@calimero.vinschen.de> <87a8u8f4s5.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <871tfidhrm.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <20150805080833.GT17917@calimero.vinschen.de> <87614tn3nm.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <20150806100338.GY17917@calimero.vinschen.de> <87d1z0if40.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <20150807194737.GO12475@calimero.vinschen.de> <874mkawe0c.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <87tws7rtb2.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <950B17ED-5523-40A7-9CF5-CB21434591B9@etr-usa.com> <87pp2vrsd0.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <87h9o7rpfc.fsf@Rainer.invalid> To: cygwin-apps@cygwin.com X-IsSubscribed: yes X-SW-Source: 2015-08/txt/msg00060.txt.bz2 On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:03 PM, Achim Gratz wrote: >=20 >> There have been a bunch of attempts in the past at replacing >> setup.exe. At least 3, that I can think of. All have fizzled. >=20 > These were? The Debian and Red Hat packaging systems have both been ported to Cygwin. = Those could be used along with a bare-bones setup.exe to bootstrap Cygwin, = after which setup.exe would no longer be needed. https://github.com/transcode-open/apt-cyg https://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-announce/2003-05/msg00001.html Then there was a pretty GUI installer someone made many years ago; I believ= e we were still in the 1.5.x line at the time. I don=E2=80=99t remember en= ough about it to find it via Google again, but I do remember a few posts to= the mailing list with positive responses. Then the developer disappeared = and no one took up the code base. That=E2=80=99s part of what I mean about the difficulty of replacing key in= frastructure. Without either a change at the core or an overwhelming attac= k from outside, there just isn=E2=80=99t enough reason for someone to try t= o adopt something nonstandard. Without that user base, there isn=E2=80=99t= enough drive to continue development, so the project fizzles. Consider the rise of Ubuntu-based Linuxes, replacing the various the RPM-ba= sed ones. That didn=E2=80=99t happen purely because Ubuntu was =E2=80=9Cbe= tter.=E2=80=9D A necessary part of this was Shuttleworth pouring millions = of dollars from a really lucky IPO into the project. As proof, consider all of the Ubuntu clones that have gone nowhere, despite= being =E2=80=9Cbetter=E2=80=9D in some way. The closest thing I can think of to success in the area you propose to tack= le is mintty, which stepped into a gap between Windows Console and Cygwin/X= + rxvt. It didn=E2=80=99t try to replace either one, exactly, so it didn= =E2=80=99t have to succeed by first making the other disappear. =E2=80=9CB= etter and separate=E2=80=9D beats =E2=80=9Cbetter.=E2=80=9D