Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Steffen Sledz]

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Here is the third try of the emacs 22.1 packages.

I hope all wishes - espacially from Eric - are fulfilled now. ;-)

The base package including everything to run without X11 and the sources:

<http://www.zone42.org/cygwin/emacs/emacs-22.1-3.tar.bz2>
<http://www.zone42.org/cygwin/emacs/emacs-22.1-3-src.tar.bz2>
<http://www.zone42.org/cygwin/emacs/setup.hint>

The X11 binary:

<http://www.zone42.org/cygwin/emacs/emacs-X11/emacs-X11-22.1-3.tar.bz2>
<http://www.zone42.org/cygwin/emacs/emacs-X11/setup.hint>

The lisp sources (including LEIM sources):

<http://www.zone42.org/cygwin/emacs/emacs-el/emacs-el-22.1-3.tar.bz2>
<http://www.zone42.org/cygwin/emacs/emacs-el/setup.hint>

LEIM is obsolete as an own package. This is an empty package moving
emacs-leim to _obsolete:

<http://www.zone42.org/cygwin/emacs-leim/emacs-leim-22.1-3.tar.bz2>
<http://www.zone42.org/cygwin/emacs-leim/emacs-leim-22.1-3-src.tar.bz2>
<http://www.zone42.org/cygwin/emacs-leim/setup.hint>

You can also install directly from:

<http://www.zone42.org/cygwin/setup.ini>

Steffen Sledz
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Re: Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Steffen Sledz]

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On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Steffen Sledz wrote:
> I hope all wishes - espacially from Eric - are fulfilled now. ;-)

Oh, sorry. I forgot something.

Eric, I'v not checked the problem with the space in the Windows user name. 
But I'll do that. Promised!  ;-)

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Re: Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Ken Brown]

On 7/19/2007 7:02 AM, Steffen Sledz wrote:
> Here is the third try of the emacs 22.1 packages.
>   

The X11 version doesn't work for me.  I gave the command "emacs&" in an 
xterm window and saw no response.  After hitting return, I got the 
message "Exit 53".  I also tried emacs-nox.exe, and that seemed to work 
OK, although I didn't test it much.

Ken

Re: Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Ken Brown]

On 7/19/2007 10:15 AM, Ken Brown wrote:
> On 7/19/2007 7:02 AM, Steffen Sledz wrote:
>> Here is the third try of the emacs 22.1 packages.
>>   
>
> The X11 version doesn't work for me.  I gave the command "emacs&" in 
> an xterm window and saw no response.  After hitting return, I got the 
> message "Exit 53".

Problem solved.  I installed libtiff5, and now emacs starts up.  I 
haven't tested it thoroughly, but at least it's running.

Ken

Re: Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Eric Blake]

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According to Ken Brown on 7/19/2007 1:28 PM:
> On 7/19/2007 10:15 AM, Ken Brown wrote:
>> On 7/19/2007 7:02 AM, Steffen Sledz wrote:
>>> Here is the third try of the emacs 22.1 packages.
>>>   
>>
>> The X11 version doesn't work for me.  I gave the command "emacs&" in
>> an xterm window and saw no response.  After hitting return, I got the
>> message "Exit 53".

missing dll

> 
> Problem solved.  I installed libtiff5, and now emacs starts up.  I
> haven't tested it thoroughly, but at least it's running.

the setup.hint was correct, just Steffen's mirror didn't have the libtiff5
package and setup.exe got confused, so this is not a bug in Steffen's
packaging, just in setup.exe.

- --
Don't work too hard, make some time for fun as well!

Eric Blake             ebb9@byu.net
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Re: Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Eric Blake]

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According to Steffen Sledz on 7/19/2007 8:01 AM:
> On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Steffen Sledz wrote:
>> I hope all wishes - espacially from Eric - are fulfilled now. ;-)
> 
> Oh, sorry. I forgot something.
> 
> Eric, I'v not checked the problem with the space in the Windows user name.
> But I'll do that. Promised!  ;-)

In the meantime, I tested under a different account, and the build worked
flawlessly.  So my objection is partly placated, and I've uploaded -3 to
the cygwin.com servers.  You are now officially the emacs maintainer!  Go
ahead and send a release announcement, so hopefully you can get some more
testers willing to try the version while it is still experimental.

As maintainer, it's up to you how long you want to keep the package in
experimental, but since it has been a few years since any prior emacs
package, I hope it isn't too long.  Also, look into the auctex issue that
has been reported (I don't use auctex myself, so I'm not sure what the
deal is here).

Igor, where's that gold star for Steffan's efforts in adopting a tough
package?

- --
Don't work too hard, make some time for fun as well!

Eric Blake             ebb9@byu.net
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Re: Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Igor Peshansky]

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Eric Blake wrote:

> According to Steffen Sledz on 7/19/2007 8:01 AM:
> > On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Steffen Sledz wrote:
> >> I hope all wishes - espacially from Eric - are fulfilled now. ;-)
> >
> > Oh, sorry. I forgot something.
> >
> > Eric, I'v not checked the problem with the space in the Windows user name.
> > But I'll do that. Promised!  ;-)
>
> In the meantime, I tested under a different account, and the build worked
> flawlessly.  So my objection is partly placated, and I've uploaded -3 to
> the cygwin.com servers.  You are now officially the emacs maintainer!  Go
> ahead and send a release announcement, so hopefully you can get some more
> testers willing to try the version while it is still experimental.
>
> As maintainer, it's up to you how long you want to keep the package in
> experimental, but since it has been a few years since any prior emacs
> package, I hope it isn't too long.  Also, look into the auctex issue that
> has been reported (I don't use auctex myself, so I'm not sure what the
> deal is here).
>
> Igor, where's that gold star for Steffan's efforts in adopting a tough
> package?

Here: <http://cygwin.com/goldstars/#SS>.
I'm assuming this is an automatic one that is given to all people adopting
orphaned packages.
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

Belief can be manipulated.  Only knowledge is dangerous.  -- Frank Herbert

Re: Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Ken Brown]

On 7/19/2007 7:02 AM, Steffen Sledz wrote:
> <http://www.zone42.org/cygwin/emacs/setup.hint>

Shouldn't emacs require libncurses7 as long as emacs 21 is still around?

Ken

Re: Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Eric Blake]

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According to Ken Brown on 7/22/2007 5:37 AM:
> On 7/19/2007 7:02 AM, Steffen Sledz wrote:
>> <http://www.zone42.org/cygwin/emacs/setup.hint>
> 
> Shouldn't emacs require libncurses7 as long as emacs 21 is still around?

Yes, that sounds reasonable, so I made the change.

- --
Don't work too hard, make some time for fun as well!

Eric Blake             ebb9@byu.net
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Re: Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Steffen Sledz]

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Eric Blake schrieb:
> Go ahead and send a release announcement, so hopefully you can get
> some more testers willing to try the version while it is still
> experimental.

Is there a template for such announcements?

Steffen
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Re: Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Mark Harig]

Steffen Sledz wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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>
> Eric Blake schrieb:
>   
>> Go ahead and send a release announcement, so hopefully you can get
>> some more testers willing to try the version while it is still
>> experimental.
>>     
>
> Is there a template for such announcements?
>
>   
Because 'etags' has been removed from the standard Emacs distribution, 
it would be
good for the announcement and the cygwin.readme for Emacs to notify 
users that
they will need to install the (exhuberant) ctags package if they want to 
generate
tag files for Emacs Lisp.  This is a standard, documented feature of 
Emacs so
users should be made aware of why it will not work if they only install 
the base
Cygwin installation plus Emacs.

Alternatively, the 'etags' program could be removed from the ctags package
(which still provides etags via the '-e' command-line option) and 
restored to
the Emacs package.

---

Re: Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Mark Harig]

Mark Harig wrote:
> Steffen Sledz wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Eric Blake schrieb:
>>  
>>> Go ahead and send a release announcement, so hopefully you can get
>>> some more testers willing to try the version while it is still
>>> experimental.
>>>     
>>
>> Is there a template for such announcements?
>>
>>   
> Because 'etags' has been removed from the standard Emacs distribution, 
> it would be
> good for the announcement and the cygwin.readme for Emacs to notify 
> users that
> they will need to install the (exhuberant) ctags package if they want 
> to generate
> tag files for Emacs Lisp.  This is a standard, documented feature of 
> Emacs so
> users should be made aware of why it will not work if they only 
> install the base
> Cygwin installation plus Emacs.
Correction about the Cygwin README for Emacs: I see that
/usr/share/doc/Cygwin/emacs-22.1.README already mentions the exuberant
ctags dependency:

    "Some binaries normally part of the emacs distribution are separated
      to avoid conflicts with other packages. If you need b2m or rcs-ckeckin
      install xemacs-emacs-common package. If you need ctags or etags 
install
      ctags package."

Of course, the 'b2m' and 'rcs-checkin' binaries are already installed by
default because the 'xemacs-emacs-common' package is a requirement
of the Cygwin Emacs package.

>
> Alternatively, the 'etags' program could be removed from the ctags 
> package
> (which still provides etags via the '-e' command-line option) and 
> restored to
> the Emacs package.
>
> ---
>

Re: Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Eric Blake]

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According to Steffen Sledz on 7/22/2007 12:48 PM:
> Eric Blake schrieb:
>> Go ahead and send a release announcement, so hopefully you can get
>> some more testers willing to try the version while it is still
>> experimental.
> 
> Is there a template for such announcements?

Pretty much any one of the mails archived at
http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-announce/ serve as a guide.  Two things to
remember - the subject line does not need [ANNOUNCEMENT] (that gets added
automatically when the mail is carboned to the main cygwin list), and the
list unsubscribe information DOES need to be included in the body of the
text (the announce list does not add an unsubscribe trailer).

For a more relevant example, here was Volker's announcement for the
experimental xemacs release:
http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-announce/2007-06/msg00010.html

- --
Don't work too hard, make some time for fun as well!

Eric Blake             ebb9@byu.net
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Re: Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Eric Blake]

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According to Mark Harig on 7/21/2007 6:04 PM:
>>>     > That sounds like a backwards dependency.  Volker, shouldn't it
>>> be that
>>>     > xemacs depends on xemacs-emacs-common, and that
>>> xemacs-emacs-common is
>>>     > standalone?  If you agree, I can change the setup.hints.
>
> It has been over 24 hours -- should we still be waiting for this to
> propagate to the mirrors?  Emacs is still listing
> 'xemacs-emacs-common' as a prerequisite.

As well it should.  My change was to xemacs-emacs-common to not pull in
xemacs, so that when emacs pulls in xemacs-emacs-common, the dependency
chain stops there.

- --
Don't work too hard, make some time for fun as well!

Eric Blake             ebb9@byu.net
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Re: Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Mark Harig]

Eric Blake wrote:
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>
> According to Dr. Volker Zell on 7/20/2007 2:17 AM:
>   
>>     > That sounds like a backwards dependency.  Volker, shouldn't it be that
>>     > xemacs depends on xemacs-emacs-common, and that xemacs-emacs-common is
>>     > standalone?  If you agree, I can change the setup.hints.
>>
>> You're right, my fault. I don't have sourceware access today. So please
>> change the setup hint. (also from the xemacs test version please)
>>     
>
> Done for both xemacs and xemacs-emacs-common.  Now downloading emacs won't
> pull in xemacs.
>
> - --
>   
It has been over 24 hours -- should we still be waiting for this to 
propagate to the mirrors?  Emacs is still listing
'xemacs-emacs-common' as a prerequisite.  I have edited my setup.ini to 
remove it from the list of 'requires' for
emacs several times, but setup.exe still lists it.

---

Re: Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Eric Blake]

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According to Dr. Volker Zell on 7/20/2007 2:17 AM:
>     > That sounds like a backwards dependency.  Volker, shouldn't it be that
>     > xemacs depends on xemacs-emacs-common, and that xemacs-emacs-common is
>     > standalone?  If you agree, I can change the setup.hints.
> 
> You're right, my fault. I don't have sourceware access today. So please
> change the setup hint. (also from the xemacs test version please)

Done for both xemacs and xemacs-emacs-common.  Now downloading emacs won't
pull in xemacs.

- --
Don't work too hard, make some time for fun as well!

Eric Blake             ebb9@byu.net
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Re: Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Dr. Volker Zell]

>>>>> Eric Blake writes:

    > According to Angelo Graziosi on 7/19/2007 8:51 AM:
    >> 
    >> 1)
    >> Emacs22 depend on xemacs-emacs-common which depend from xemacs: WHY to
    >> install emacs one should install XEmacs ?

    > That sounds like a backwards dependency.  Volker, shouldn't it be that
    > xemacs depends on xemacs-emacs-common, and that xemacs-emacs-common is
    > standalone?  If you agree, I can change the setup.hints.

You're right, my fault. I don't have sourceware access today. So please
change the setup hint. (also from the xemacs test version please)

Ciao
  Volker

Re: Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Eric Blake]

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According to Brian Dessent on 7/19/2007 9:55 PM:
> Eric Blake wrote:
> 
>> That's because of a setup.exe limitation - it does not pick up
>> dependencies that are not on the same server as the package you are
>> picking up.  Now that I have uploaded emacs to cygwin.com, that should no
>> longer be an issue (but in the meantime, Steffen could have worked around
>> that by copying a few more packages to his site).
> 
> It should also work if you ctrl-select both mirrors in the chooser list,
> i.e. a full mirror plus the test package mirror.

I was encountering weird selection issues when I did that - ie. the cycle
chooser was not sure whether to list 21.50, 22.1, or both.  Maybe part of
that is because both versions are marked experimental, and setup.exe's
experimental version handling has not always been the smartest in the past.

- --
Don't work too hard, make some time for fun as well!

Eric Blake             ebb9@byu.net
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Re: Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Brian Dessent]

Eric Blake wrote:

> That's because of a setup.exe limitation - it does not pick up
> dependencies that are not on the same server as the package you are
> picking up.  Now that I have uploaded emacs to cygwin.com, that should no
> longer be an issue (but in the meantime, Steffen could have worked around
> that by copying a few more packages to his site).

It should also work if you ctrl-select both mirrors in the chooser list,
i.e. a full mirror plus the test package mirror.

Brian

Re: Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Eric Blake]

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[moving back to cygwin-apps, since this is about packaging issues; no need
to reply to the main list]

According to Angelo Graziosi on 7/19/2007 8:51 AM:
> 
> 1)
> Emacs22 depend on xemacs-emacs-common which depend from xemacs: WHY to
> install emacs one should install XEmacs ?

That sounds like a backwards dependency.  Volker, shouldn't it be that
xemacs depends on xemacs-emacs-common, and that xemacs-emacs-common is
standalone?  If you agree, I can change the setup.hints.

> 
> 2)
> XEmacs comes with AUCTEX, so if one should use xemacs-emacs-common,
> WHY not adding auctex to it?

I didn't think this was a showstopper for uploading -3, but hope that
Steffen can look into it and release a -4 someday.

 > 3)
> Installing Emacs22 via setup has some strange behaviour.
> Selecting emacs-X11 package does not select those packages from which it
> depend (emacs,...).

That's because of a setup.exe limitation - it does not pick up
dependencies that are not on the same server as the package you are
picking up.  Now that I have uploaded emacs to cygwin.com, that should no
longer be an issue (but in the meantime, Steffen could have worked around
that by copying a few more packages to his site).

> 
> Beside this clicking on emacs-X11 first selects the old 21 packages then
> 22.

Again due to setup.exe weirdness when pulling to setup.ini from different
servers with different ideas about what version should be experimental.

- --
Don't work too hard, make some time for fun as well!

Eric Blake             ebb9@byu.net
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Re: Emacs is coming back - all pleased?

[Ken Brown]

On 7/19/2007 10:51 AM, Angelo Graziosi wrote:
> 
> > Emacs22 depend on xemacs-emacs-common which depend from xemacs: WHY to
> install emacs one should install XEmacs ?
> 
> Previous version of Emacs depend on ctags and not from
> xemacs-emacs-common.
> 
> This has another consequence (at least with -1 and -2): uninstalling
> Emacs22 corrupts the installed ctag package (as reported from cygcheck).

I felt the same way about not wanting to install xemacs just to run 
emacs, so I installed emacs 22.1 without installing xemacs-emacs-common. 
  It seemed to work until I tried compiling a tex file under auctex, 
which caused emacs to crash with a core dump.  I then uninstalled ctags 
(which was left over from my previous version of emacs), and now auctex 
seems to work fine.  Maybe some other problem will show up later as a 
result of not having ctags.  I don't know what ctags is, but if it's 
needed for emacs, I would hope that it would be possible to install it 
without also installing xemacs.

Ken