From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.10]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6608738518A2 for ; Mon, 14 Nov 2022 05:21:38 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.1 sourceware.org 6608738518A2 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=towo.net Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=towo.net Received: from [192.168.178.72] ([91.65.247.133]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue108 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N3sVq-1p34pU1GNM-00zjxb for ; Mon, 14 Nov 2022 06:21:36 +0100 Message-ID: <6c376ed0-fd39-5d8b-59e9-e62b539b6de9@towo.net> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 06:21:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable To: cygwin-apps@cygwin.com References: <8a0ad718-4193-d679-b965-9850648a288f@SystematicSw.ab.ca> From: Thomas Wolff In-Reply-To: <8a0ad718-4193-d679-b965-9850648a288f@SystematicSw.ab.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:VjSODyjEyamAsM/+qhmfCZl9Bvi5U/lx2RfocpxjztrDkNeYUeT 5r9qMmmfM8wcWnk2rjTVyRVhNd56TyTy99nNb+BXKeHIODNmqza86gDCgFpxZkpS7jZLvY2 cogNPb6HkWCmMDErFpD++N9YKuQXem2t6AMLDAmvpeT9BkBGP63RrK8CAAYMkAHkw6nFawM XefnMrELDvoHJQvBeIvWw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:cutD8kiO/Ac=:YZZPntgbSHpJNuZTTT/0sQ J2L1THsb8SFk3V7Ck5DLMkYW9eWDUke0PmgXPf0wxWvs9iXCK107M09Eefzewgis52/InX9Dn VZAfp89BsDmBEFCM2tIw0sEswehDhmbuKFWmNMM5MOFzyWYcBf7ccX053dWbKnDTKSxazyo5C b8udjZQ7QCbbm3xfng8QFkgF8KJ+MVlyx9FbDY6C6+xKB0kyz2vJqzDe15+w5yJn26/MTr+1Y pyFoNrE3MdmzlLn+5tIDiH83nOzUpAxuFLc54flnJXhVbH63V/ALQ6mu+VrEI0lG7L+kPSE7o Sjme+ldtsoDbbr5D1DMrCi0rqTeN0chdHE5neZc6PCGUnn8LSV6YW41j+AiPZTc0a76b4dZqc l3m9nv64lpDqsFSdf3vBtDD9r5OLsw8alAp9dB0LlUM2uZr1hNmOcrNs0m59vesqq4FWnK3la Ld2S4rx2uEHDVyz4uS8VAdVWqAMQ8nG3WtqlbtmoNWQgfHcldMIoF1Dr1yJCGhJD5WeMvaB2e ya0ecUhbn8vh50pslXCgkBo3drwtUqYLvzIXD6/urwx8At3RHzrDSazl1BfgFDxCc7bVIMKPW sxnCQErQkzICIEhA+y4BJ0HVOpur9th9+ef87Ym87faKLDjOPQOTSCot+wGTFnSi5Qo5yFWWj 6E7CUKzTnJx1eZQiOsrhQrsca4CoTe5jmSFiAYwxqp6FPmUsgePq11LA5QrqwUb9rTdmQn1Nl nml5IOBSI/4wU3tpXwq8+CgThbDyPGA6DGcO20KjPNun4R/OX0vhTe2Kz+rBgPBdS01tJNgJX 9Y9VVoV X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,KAM_DMARC_STATUS,KAM_LAZY_DOMAIN_SECURITY,NICE_REPLY_A,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_NONE,TXREP autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on server2.sourceware.org List-Id: Am 13.11.2022 um 23:13 schrieb Brian Inglis: > On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 18:09:19 +0100, Thomas Wolff wrote: >> Am 04.11.2022 um 20:27 schrieb Corinna Vinschen: >>> On Nov  4 13:07, Brian Inglis wrote: >>>> On Thu, 03 Nov 2022 19:31:27 +0100, Achim Gratz wrote: >>>>> Brian Inglis writes: >>>>>> Suggest that I could come up with a package grep-nowarn which can >>>>>> only >>>>>> suppress the [ef]grep warnings, where the package would install >>>>>> [ef]grep-nowarn, and the postinstall script could rename the >>>>>> distributed shell scripts to [ef]grep-warn, and install alternatives >>>>>> with -warn priority 10, -nowarn priority 20; preremove would reverse >>>>>> the process. >>>>>> >>>>>> Suggestions to accommodate -nowarn from grep package postinstall? >>>>>> I could supply the same postinstall and preremove as -nowarn to >>>>>> check >>>>>> for -nowarn and install or uninstall the alternative. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sequence or timing issues to watch out for during >>>>>> postinstall/preremove? >>>>> As Corinna already said, why GNU suddenly cares so much about strict >>>>> POSIX conformance in this case is puzzling.  If anything they should >>>>> have left the decision to packagers and IMNHO the warning should >>>>> only be >>>>> presented when POSIXLY_CORRECT is set in the environment, if at all. >>>>> The patch to the wrapper script(s) in question is trivial and several >>>>> Linux distributions have removed the warning already (if you do this, >>>>> also change the interpreter from bash to dash).  Just skip any >>>>> extra packages and do the same. >>>> The issue does not appear to be about POSIX compliance, but that >>>> [ef]grep >>>> were dropped from POSIX before 2008 and declared obsolescent, so the >>>> maintainers appear to be looking to drop those commands/scripts. >>> This is a usability issue.  If upstream thinks they have to do such a >>> potentially destructive and backward-incompatible change for no other >>> reason than "is not in POSIX", they can do so, but there's no good >>> reason the distros who *care* for usability have to do this either. >>> >>>> You could perhaps reach out to Eric Blake or Jim Meyering who are >>>> in the GNU >>>> grep contributor lists for rationale. >>>> >>>> While Debian and OpenSuSE have reverted that change, Fedora has not >>>> in main >>>> or rawhide. >>> Right, Debian and OpenSuSE revert the change and the BSDs will not >>> break >>> e/fgrep either, obviously.  I doubt Ubuntu will do that. Fedora often >>> values progress, for a given value of "progress", higher than >>> usability. >>> They will probably see lots of Bugzillas and user requests in other >>> forums due to this change and then ignore them.  But that doesn't mean >>> we have to do it. >>> >>> Again: Egrep and fgrep are used in lots of scripts around the world.  A >>> change like this will have a massive impact for years to come. >>> >>> So, again, in the name of usability, let's follow Debian and OpenSuSE >>> here, not Fedora, please. > >> @Brian, as a grep package maintainer, can you *please* make a trivial >> patch to remove the grep crap as Corinna suggested and upload an >> updated package *today*, as Jon Turney threatens to freeze the x86 >> repository tomorrow? > > Successfully deployed from Scallywag and announced. > Great! Thank you very much.