From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.131]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B2CA3858436 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 17:09:23 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.1 sourceware.org 0B2CA3858436 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=towo.net Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=towo.net Received: from [192.168.178.72] ([91.65.247.133]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue011 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MYvse-1oPWCl0OP2-00UpTu; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 18:09:19 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2022 18:09:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Test: grep 3.8 - promotion to current stable To: cygwin-apps@cygwin.com, Brian Inglis References: <87fsezx534.fsf@Rainer.invalid> From: Thomas Wolff In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:qVMHEj4tLkpdnVaGxHI32gwdHCdqcsDfrJbmKcrtky/CsDmAeb+ ueFsMntdWPMvQQGOBDFG8tUhXO3Z2bbEHFiHBaa7EBKyPpl234baWG9CgKVK4z8EDIiVPBf z/ImoSKe/UXrCQqsUrgt2b95IJUmKWGeNUfHxcMBZsQFBMA++mnpiYe+YIsaHkvy2TDO/t2 cb/Dkea7K++fXPYsM/PGw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:CGLQPzrSFMI=:oZvHpMzuVNqC/lSuTEVNHb IP/08vnItVjoGDYbfhxgvXBONEwn6K/zNqhJAwQnxvG7T8CtpqvGHz9cj6asmpubc2aoUYpY4 lrzP6lr66dPODBRbgTnH6GdpB/COQ2/ZzqbKo5pzIn0MkbO2raVG7ZUmprxxqHsdkGAyJKX5h C27pif3VnljRWgO5t7PwQmZRIN1rbMRKfn5MaIrLQcHR7keSSLC97bQj+TM4m4jx+ErbSjwO9 SKzb2CdgnMETMPYavxnClVev61fKqZq/JhOa+GAuDq/QcAHn04lP7/8LLHH2+UloUXn/no9h0 js32u+snEIc5grDws4QKlQuc6PPagFt8PDthUJdVtjmL+Df//R9vPyocIyNxbm6WfaUMXs7ZG oyMvQ9suw7VE+0l3H8wZq1r+YlG+04OSJE3kn9wukBAW6/OsyjYHktA0FAya3NVAS8cUf4TAK ll35/3WJlDvTrtgNtkAdB/gxhgNvlXEUkxg5LMrV76r6Thz9JbnhnYzJGwLHDm2futbWAlQOr Jrk4lNx3TXS7SoCx3fuCGOUlkEhvYVnK0SiOm2IyKv/XINVWIAbVNuNwJ/5Owm8QjigLqVNTB XxN5cROO6LoIxzwTXFpnnJKGdtxOezE6biJkSmy9BoYSlK2oBi7Cq5NRyaELfra9sMMb6lO7R aFJeNRdoyI9oyLDrv5+qYNBNlgKgD3/MfCmSPf19VCmUxGMgkRiJ+smaXiQ4x6Hg+UziwpqoE 4fXpWd88dkuiGh+kE18Z0lJA+bVYdC32iVPannxet35rpgyMN027jPat00CsTB9ebx290PF0z TGLwbpW X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,KAM_DMARC_STATUS,KAM_LAZY_DOMAIN_SECURITY,NICE_REPLY_A,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_NONE,TXREP autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on server2.sourceware.org List-Id: Am 04.11.2022 um 20:27 schrieb Corinna Vinschen: > On Nov 4 13:07, Brian Inglis wrote: >> On Thu, 03 Nov 2022 19:31:27 +0100, Achim Gratz wrote: >>> Brian Inglis writes: >>>> Suggest that I could come up with a package grep-nowarn which can only >>>> suppress the [ef]grep warnings, where the package would install >>>> [ef]grep-nowarn, and the postinstall script could rename the >>>> distributed shell scripts to [ef]grep-warn, and install alternatives >>>> with -warn priority 10, -nowarn priority 20; preremove would reverse >>>> the process. >>>> >>>> Suggestions to accommodate -nowarn from grep package postinstall? >>>> I could supply the same postinstall and preremove as -nowarn to check >>>> for -nowarn and install or uninstall the alternative. >>>> >>>> Sequence or timing issues to watch out for during postinstall/preremove? >>> As Corinna already said, why GNU suddenly cares so much about strict >>> POSIX conformance in this case is puzzling. If anything they should >>> have left the decision to packagers and IMNHO the warning should only be >>> presented when POSIXLY_CORRECT is set in the environment, if at all. >>> The patch to the wrapper script(s) in question is trivial and several >>> Linux distributions have removed the warning already (if you do this, >>> also change the interpreter from bash to dash). Just skip any >>> extra packages and do the same. >> The issue does not appear to be about POSIX compliance, but that [ef]grep >> were dropped from POSIX before 2008 and declared obsolescent, so the >> maintainers appear to be looking to drop those commands/scripts. > This is a usability issue. If upstream thinks they have to do such a > potentially destructive and backward-incompatible change for no other > reason than "is not in POSIX", they can do so, but there's no good > reason the distros who *care* for usability have to do this either. > >> You could perhaps reach out to Eric Blake or Jim Meyering who are in the GNU >> grep contributor lists for rationale. >> >> While Debian and OpenSuSE have reverted that change, Fedora has not in main >> or rawhide. > Right, Debian and OpenSuSE revert the change and the BSDs will not break > e/fgrep either, obviously. I doubt Ubuntu will do that. Fedora often > values progress, for a given value of "progress", higher than usability. > They will probably see lots of Bugzillas and user requests in other > forums due to this change and then ignore them. But that doesn't mean > we have to do it. > > Again: Egrep and fgrep are used in lots of scripts around the world. A > change like this will have a massive impact for years to come. > > So, again, in the name of usability, let's follow Debian and OpenSuSE > here, not Fedora, please. @Brian, as a grep package maintainer, can you *please* make a trivial patch to remove the grep crap as Corinna suggested and upload an updated package *today*, as Jon Turney threatens to freeze the x86 repository tomorrow?