From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5F8A385783D for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2020 08:32:08 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org A5F8A385783D Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmx.de Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1598949125; bh=yjBSTLZKR0gFGDWZ6enLuMkRC6T7X+unZIdN/3PO+NI=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=VMlVQEYMG0/U9V94lSV9eGZAKSdTb6ichbfzHDa+7/3kiN3qBxXUOv5gRa3l/O+a7 H3377H/Htjbg93wI6enTL3/37FIaIFCh/xd9PeOBJ5bXTWpBxhSNyGe3cJ1/yLeV7e q56TrVo8/Mc8fTmTpTH8f8z4uXNvR6GBjHeDDGMI= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [172.18.169.176] ([89.1.214.118]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Mnaof-1kuMka3Ctx-00jXLi; Tue, 01 Sep 2020 10:32:05 +0200 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2020 07:00:53 +0200 (CEST) From: Johannes Schindelin X-X-Sender: virtualbox@gitforwindows.org To: Thomas Wolff cc: cygwin-developers@cygwin.com Subject: Re: New implementation of pseudo console support (experimental) In-Reply-To: <131b9bdf-4b89-051b-f9a3-5332f837d56b@towo.net> Message-ID: References: <20200722174541.c8113635236fd217cb9ebb77@nifty.ne.jp> <20200803111103.27ef6554df7f40d1142bceee@nifty.ne.jp> <20200803212342.8b14a3164ed66bd521774fe4@nifty.ne.jp> <20200811201258.4bffb987ecdb96583c516bc2@nifty.ne.jp> <20200813185813.2d851113b6e134db371d35b4@nifty.ne.jp> <20200817205718.a0fcc08bf21be4ba5f10ba3d@nifty.ne.jp> <20200819203959.9d220306c58736f94381d1e6@nifty.ne.jp> <20200819134156.GP3272@calimero.vinschen.de> <20200820170210.e066c8ad933ca31061130ba9@nifty.ne.jp> <20200831231253.332c66fdddb33ceed5f61db6@nifty.ne.jp> <20200831235325.c26c1a75e4cec737e793c91c@nifty.ne.jp> <9f0e8248-cc3b-b5a8-0af5-43dbdf079478@towo.net> <1104c24d-49ea-96b9-30cb-acd4460108ab@towo.net> <131b9bdf-4b89-051b-f9a3-5332f837d56b@towo.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21.1 (DEB 209 2017-03-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:aUULdIgYRTqeH47D0aF3jKieQgxqx0l6VlKIujL/Sn1/l5NWnbH ViLOXJA+ce7/hsTDTBABiDmmtRLbotSelWMOw7JcCRrx1/WcOhC7thfbkzRXDIwKt0ANdqb urjWIh2XR7vL+Pe68sm3Hv0JGv7PQbBE/6eT6V2ar4/5GNbTEncTsM1yOsrpT/uMcMVT9jY 6gIUa2xHSJqNSyySitnIg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:IUhlRx2JAHg=:FiGuTun8s/nCg6lyv5hda/ Y9LYv33pCVQwzplkTsleemwV0/F3rm4ya3EphQCKFJkpSdk+VsAwNOZPIgb6CNgrWEHysSEQy K6Z2E90tQFkn9342vUd6fbwMJPBtQWFPNuh33wvx+SdROTV76EpKzx12p6+HQlxcQnTFpFQps lw//cbsvSu+MJJ8Z+TBU/ckG6EJPoeseE8ve7ODlVbhu/7Vs/wOVUyXUGT9tKnYW8x/FoXsWN r4szStdueBHTyxNk9yQsZtQK8XB2tqqaB8XYP26ie1lsL9sfKa61jAAYTflwY0TQceijZYWPN ifREelUT2yJzwclFm4MFko3mQnRu8JZjwoM0VDVVP6xfki4g7fm2Fsx/wgXMkJilQZbNr4XUJ womKQjIXc8GObnhu7DLoKQ8Ooz7hw5n0pkGN60BWKF82WnmLX9Won9HZNCt6wp+3MClP6IcFZ ZyqvRLQV86eAa7rYtypM30Ag0jgS2k1ygbnCdXTyLwhLrE1W5P1USu663jlcCCde0BOnvrgMt /CSq0BOUuL4wc8+2NFgqRv0ytOtMmpNTDFgMFUfRG3crJ7cZteP3m+oYkpCArfp/4oirZhmRf oXuHsFaQnFU1K7Dcc9rAmEGpKGFi14KVpnH9yXQv5EF/h6apwia6PtUqtOGLPpswXKucZhX6Y D2ES/xyrpvtavKEzf6OU8SL3YynhTHqjFuIjkJKeycqziKS4rkBfAYwDHkZyCZ3bvLgTGmZ91 VoQu7u78AjRZ6Yx30f4+qh2m46mZKpc8a2slb1c2Div1ewtRhEp12H5cUfrrq1vv6r7KBpT5r GzsbG+ovKY7NQwsosoutPSGN/YFy236kt6pyNJJdVxmN9y24oxkaEPbgBwRazvRdXeBBzCQIw bUR+D6JN3iE0vv3aaIeGC1Bzc+GMPJjNZ4WWLlMv0hQBaTC2Sa72+7S+zd5NpbdHV5vttU9/e 72tFSidWSUoFH+Y8MVy0pYBBdB2kwIDL2Vj6ZPHe2NdgG4KRjGF/QzgJgybxY4Pkq6Dqak/T1 08cz5tArpaqp2lH8Oe8uO6XZGhywoAwrYdV44ECAYvxl/PRHecuP+SkoO25pWqVzo6YkN9PkO PJvS/BzC1xNlSPZOGtSB0TcnI7eZ8v1OsU9tDOl9+otdgvBhpcQaIPZAQ0eiJi+OdGT2Ysf0S Y/2oEhkiQ8aTrzUCvrdAjPEpJR+zglTInoqqsEw69EyTMk8rD2opsRJn2Tx00Y2lhFpbt0TNY ch9DjCLwGWVbU/JCl6zARJ4Cz5rCEleL3QdZYNQ== X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DATE_IN_PAST_03_06, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_BARRACUDACENTRAL, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: cygwin-developers@cygwin.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Cygwin core component developers mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2020 08:32:13 -0000 Hi Thomas, On Mon, 31 Aug 2020, Thomas Wolff wrote: > Am 31.08.2020 um 21:17 schrieb Johannes Schindelin: > > > > [...] > > > > But that does _not_ reinstate the previous behavior when Pseudo > > Console support is disabled. > > > > Now, I would call that a regression (the entire idea of `disable_pcon` > > was to fall back to the previous behavior, no?). And I do not really > > understand where it comes from, that regression. > > I wouldn't quite call it a regression as it disables buggy behaviour > which was used as a workaround for a buggy system environment. But > arguably you could expect such an option to fall back to previous buggy > behaviour. I think I got it. After you called this kind of application buggy for a dozen times, I think I finally understood. You think they are buggy! And while you sink into your comfy chair, thinking that you settled the issue, in reality it is not settled at all. Arguing whether it is correct for an application not to call `SetConsoleOutputCP()` does not help anyone. Just because the behavior is considered undefined does not mean that we should make the situation _intentionally_ worse. That is, if we can get back to a spot where the (yes, buggy, buggy, BUGGY!) applications behave in at least roughly the same way as before, users will be much better off. The work-around could be e.g. what I suggested in my reply to Corinna (and which is the equivalent of what you suggested -- "just run chcp once" -- just without putting the burden on the users' shoulders, by calling `SetConsoleOutputCP()` in the runtime, once). In any case, my question why `disable_pcon` still uses the console output code page was directed more at Takashi than you (or anybody else familiar with that code path). Ciao, Johannes