Re: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

Re: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Igor Peshansky]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Natalia M. Belfiore wrote:

> [snip]
> Tasha

Well, actually, what he wrote is unimportant.  What is interesting (and
really unsettling to anyone who grew up in Russia) is that Natalia (or
Natasha) is a purely female name (c.f. "War and Peace"), and this person
is clearly male.

No point here, just venting...  :-)
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Las! je suis sot... -Mais non, tu ne l'es pas, puisque tu t'en rends compte."
"But no -- you are no fool; you call yourself a fool, there's proof enough in
that!" -- Rostand, "Cyrano de Bergerac"

Re: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[George]

On Tue, Apr 18, 2006 at 01:11:07PM -0400, Igor Peshansky wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Natalia M. Belfiore wrote:
> 
> > [snip]
> > Tasha
> 
> Well, actually, what he wrote is unimportant.  What is interesting (and
> really unsettling to anyone who grew up in Russia) is that Natalia (or
> Natasha) is a purely female name (c.f. "War and Peace"), and this person
> is clearly male.
> 
> No point here, just venting...  :-)

Maybe it's Natasha just on the weekends?

What may be just as interesting to those that *may* read something along
the lines of War and Peace and similarly didn't grow up in Russia, is
that the name Sasha is a not the name given to a female, pure or
otherwise.  It's the dimunitive of Alexander.  Which, in English, is
... Alexander.

Sasha, Tasha.  Go figure.

Bob's yer uncle.  

Actually, 'e's my aunt, but we don't talk about 'im any more.

Speaking of dimunitive, thought I'd pass along another bit of trivia.
An rsync of a Cygwin mirror yields a whopping 2.9GB, substantially
larger (and slower) than the 2GB figure that what was quoted in a recent
message. 

-- 
George

Re: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Igor Peshansky]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, George wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 18, 2006 at 01:11:07PM -0400, Igor Peshansky wrote:
> > On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Natalia M. Belfiore wrote:
> >
> > > [snip]
> > > Tasha
> >
> > Well, actually, what he wrote is unimportant.  What is interesting (and
> > really unsettling to anyone who grew up in Russia) is that Natalia (or
> > Natasha) is a purely female name (c.f. "War and Peace"), and this person
> > is clearly male.
> >
> > No point here, just venting...  :-)
>
> Maybe it's Natasha just on the weekends?
>
> What may be just as interesting to those that *may* read something along
> the lines of War and Peace and similarly didn't grow up in Russia, is
> that the name Sasha is a not the name given to a female, pure or
> otherwise.  It's the dimunitive of Alexander.  Which, in English, is
> ... Alexander.

Well, actually, Sasha is both a male and a female name (kind of like Alex
in England).  The female version is Alexandra, and it is rather common in
Russia.

Natalia is a name that doesn't have a male equivalent.

> Sasha, Tasha.  Go figure.
>
> Bob's yer uncle.
>
> Actually, 'e's my aunt, but we don't talk about 'im any more.

There once was a lady named Peter...
Hmm, maybe I shouldn't continue this one. :-)

> Speaking of dimunitive, thought I'd pass along another bit of trivia.
> An rsync of a Cygwin mirror yields a whopping 2.9GB, substantially
> larger (and slower) than the 2GB figure that what was quoted in a recent
> message.

Since a decision was made to not always erase older versions of packages,
I can believe that.  If you restrict this to versions accessible via
setup.ini, you'll find that 2GB hits close to the mark (last I checked,
which wasn't very recently).
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Las! je suis sot... -Mais non, tu ne l'es pas, puisque tu t'en rends compte."
"But no -- you are no fool; you call yourself a fool, there's proof enough in
that!" -- Rostand, "Cyrano de Bergerac"

RE: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> From: Igor Peshansky
> On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, George wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Apr 18, 2006 at 01:11:07PM -0400, Igor Peshansky wrote:
> > > On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Natalia M. Belfiore wrote:
> > >
> > > > [snip]
> > > > Tasha
> > >
> > > Well, actually, what he wrote is unimportant.  What is 
> interesting 
> > > (and really unsettling to anyone who grew up in Russia) is that 
> > > Natalia (or
> > > Natasha) is a purely female name (c.f. "War and Peace"), and this 
> > > person is clearly male.
> > >
> > > No point here, just venting...  :-)
> >
> > Maybe it's Natasha just on the weekends?
> >
> > What may be just as interesting to those that *may* read something 
> > along the lines of War and Peace and similarly didn't grow up in 
> > Russia, is that the name Sasha is a not the name given to a female, 
> > pure or otherwise.  It's the dimunitive of Alexander.  Which, in 
> > English, is ... Alexander.
> 
> Well, actually, Sasha is both a male and a female name (kind 
> of like Alex in England).  The female version is Alexandra, 
> and it is rather common in Russia.
> 

That makes totally NO sense:

1.  Alexander
2.  Alexandra
3.  Sasha

Note that while #1 and #2 share 7 letters in the exact same position AND one
letter that is merely transposed, #3 shares ZERO letters in the same
position and only ONE letter in common at all!  I think it's high time for
Mr. Putin to rationalize this rather bizarre state of affairs.

> Natalia is a name that doesn't have a male equivalent.
> 

Nathaniel, no?

-- 
Gary R. Van Sickle

RE: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Igor Peshansky]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:

> > From: Igor Peshansky
>
> > Natalia is a name that doesn't have a male equivalent.
>
> Nathaniel, no?

There is a name Natan (a form of Nathan) in Russia, but they have
completely different origins (Natalia comes from Italian, and Natan from
Hebrew).
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Las! je suis sot... -Mais non, tu ne l'es pas, puisque tu t'en rends compte."
"But no -- you are no fool; you call yourself a fool, there's proof enough in
that!" -- Rostand, "Cyrano de Bergerac"

RE: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Dave Korn]

On 18 April 2006 18:11, Igor Peshansky wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Natalia M. Belfiore wrote:
> 
>> [snip]
>> Tasha
> 
> Well, actually, what he wrote is unimportant.  What is interesting (and
> really unsettling to anyone who grew up in Russia) is that Natalia (or
> Natasha) is a purely female name (c.f. "War and Peace"), and this person
> is clearly male.
> 
> No point here, just venting...  :-)
> 	Igor

  :)  At first I kinda suspected that it was a bloke attempting to employ the
well known "Pose-as-a-helpless-female-and-flutter-your-virtual-eyelashes"
technique to achieve faster response times from geek-filled mailing
lists.......

  Then I found....

http://genome-lab.ucdavis.edu/People/TashaBelfiore/default.htm

  AAAAUUUUGHGHGHHHH   MY EYES ARE BURNING  !!!

http://genome-lab.ucdavis.edu/People/TashaBelfiore/personalinfo.htm

"I am also called Natasha, it being a common diminutive of Natalia, my legal
name"

  Note the carefully worded phrase "my legal name", plus also the various cute
icons including a kitten and a sheep and someone dancing?  OK, I'm going to
take a guess: this can only be explained by GR surgery.

    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

RE: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Igor Peshansky]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Dave Korn wrote:

> On 18 April 2006 18:11, Igor Peshansky wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Natalia M. Belfiore wrote:
> >
> >> [snip]
> >> Tasha
> >
> > Well, actually, what he wrote is unimportant.  What is interesting (and
> > really unsettling to anyone who grew up in Russia) is that Natalia (or
> > Natasha) is a purely female name (c.f. "War and Peace"), and this person
> > is clearly male.
> >
> > No point here, just venting...  :-)
> > 	Igor
>
>   :)  At first I kinda suspected that it was a bloke attempting to
> employ the well known
> "Pose-as-a-helpless-female-and-flutter-your-virtual-eyelashes" technique
> to achieve faster response times from geek-filled mailing lists.......
>
>   Then I found....
>
> http://genome-lab.ucdavis.edu/People/TashaBelfiore/default.htm

Yes, I've looked at that.  Hence my comment about "clearly male".

>   AAAAUUUUGHGHGHHHH   MY EYES ARE BURNING  !!!
>
> http://genome-lab.ucdavis.edu/People/TashaBelfiore/personalinfo.htm
>
> "I am also called Natasha, it being a common diminutive of Natalia, my
> legal name"
>
>   Note the carefully worded phrase "my legal name", plus also the
> various cute icons including a kitten and a sheep and someone dancing?
> OK, I'm going to take a guess: this can only be explained by GR surgery.

I wouldn't put it past the parents to name their male child Natalia...

There are some weird name combinations out there.  I once heard of a Cuban
name Vilare, which stood for "Vive la Revolucion!"...
	Igor
P.S. Ok, who'll be the first to name their child "Hippo"?
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Las! je suis sot... -Mais non, tu ne l'es pas, puisque tu t'en rends compte."
"But no -- you are no fool; you call yourself a fool, there's proof enough in
that!" -- Rostand, "Cyrano de Bergerac"

RE: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Dave Korn]

On 18 April 2006 19:18, Igor Peshansky wrote:

>>   Note the carefully worded phrase "my legal name", plus also the
>> various cute icons including a kitten and a sheep and someone dancing?
>> OK, I'm going to take a guess: this can only be explained by GR surgery.
> 
> I wouldn't put it past the parents to name their male child Natalia...

  Well, OK, but would you then expect that male child to go on to win the
"Association for Women in Science Educational Foundation Award, Citation of
Merit, 1997"?

http://genome-lab.ucdavis.edu/People/TashaBelfiore/tasha'scv.pdf


    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

RE: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

[snip]
> 
> I wouldn't put it past the parents to name their male child Natalia...
> 
> There are some weird name combinations out there.  I once 
> heard of a Cuban name Vilare, which stood for "Vive la Revolucion!"...
> 	Igor
> P.S. Ok, who'll be the first to name their child "Hippo"?

Too late: Hippo was one of the original Marx Brothers.  I think he had a
horn and never spoke.  They replaced him fairly early on with Curly though,
which we can all agree was a distinct improvement.

-- 
Gary R. Van Sickle

RE: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> From:  Dave Korn
> On 18 April 2006 18:11, Igor Peshansky wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Natalia M. Belfiore wrote:
> > 
> >> [snip]
> >> Tasha
> > 
> > Well, actually, what he wrote is unimportant.  What is interesting 
> > (and really unsettling to anyone who grew up in Russia) is that 
> > Natalia (or
> > Natasha) is a purely female name (c.f. "War and Peace"), and this 
> > person is clearly male.
> > 
> > No point here, just venting...  :-)
> > 	Igor
> 
>   :)  At first I kinda suspected that it was a bloke 
> attempting to employ the well known 
> "Pose-as-a-helpless-female-and-flutter-your-virtual-eyelashes"
> technique to achieve faster response times from geek-filled 
> mailing lists.......
> 

Hehehheee, you'd be amazed at what that'll get you.

>   Then I found....
> 
> http://genome-lab.ucdavis.edu/People/TashaBelfiore/default.htm
> 
>   AAAAUUUUGHGHGHHHH   MY EYES ARE BURNING  !!!
> 

Meh, he's no Gilbert Gottfried.

> http://genome-lab.ucdavis.edu/People/TashaBelfiore/personalinfo.htm
> 
> "I am also called Natasha, it being a common diminutive of 
> Natalia, my legal name"
> 
>   Note the carefully worded phrase "my legal name", plus also 
> the various cute icons including a kitten and a sheep and 
> someone dancing?  OK, I'm going to take a guess: this can 
> only be explained by GR surgery.
>

You mean, Sheena was a man?  Hmmm, no, I don't buy it.  You have to be
all-man all-the-time to play in a band named "Chicken Tractor".

Whom, by the way, ROCK!!!!!
 
>     cheers,
>       DaveK
> --
> Can't think of a witty .sigline today....
> 

-- 
Gary R. Van Sickle
I can....
 

RE: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Dave Korn]

On 19 April 2006 03:10, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:

>> From:  Dave Korn
>> On 18 April 2006 18:11, Igor Peshansky wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Natalia M. Belfiore wrote:
>>> 
>>>> [snip]
>>>> Tasha
>>> 
>>> Well, actually, what he wrote is unimportant.  What is interesting
>>> (and really unsettling to anyone who grew up in Russia) is that Natalia
>>> (or Natasha) is a purely female name (c.f. "War and Peace"), and this
>>> person is clearly male. 
>>> 
>>> No point here, just venting...  :-)
>>> 	Igor
>> 
>>   :)  At first I kinda suspected that it was a bloke
>> attempting to employ the well known
>> "Pose-as-a-helpless-female-and-flutter-your-virtual-eyelashes"
>> technique to achieve faster response times from geek-filled mailing
>> lists....... 
>> 
> 
> Hehehheee, you'd be amazed at what that'll get you.
> 
>>   Then I found....
>> 
>> http://genome-lab.ucdavis.edu/People/TashaBelfiore/default.htm
>> 
>>   AAAAUUUUGHGHGHHHH   MY EYES ARE BURNING  !!!
>> 
> 
> Meh, he's no Gilbert Gottfried.
> 

  Huh?  I was talking about the garish background textures!


;)

    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

RE: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

[snip]
> >>   Then I found....
> >> 
> >> http://genome-lab.ucdavis.edu/People/TashaBelfiore/default.htm
> >> 
> >>   AAAAUUUUGHGHGHHHH   MY EYES ARE BURNING  !!!
> >> 
> > 
> > Meh, he's no Gilbert Gottfried.
> > 
> 
>   Huh?  I was talking about the garish background textures!
> 
> 
> ;)
> 
>     cheers,
>       DaveK
> --
> Can't think of a witty .sigline today....
> 

Meh, the garish background textures are no Gilbert Gottfried either.

-- 
Gary R. Van Sickle
 

RE: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> From: Igor Peshansky
[snip]
> On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Natalia M. Belfiore wrote:
> 
> > [snip]
> > Tasha
> 
> Well, actually, what he wrote is unimportant.  What is 
> interesting (and really unsettling to anyone who grew up in 
> Russia) is that Natalia (or
> Natasha) is a purely female name (c.f. "War and Peace"), and 
> this person is clearly male.
> 
> No point here, just venting...  :-)
> 	Igor

Hmmm, sounds fishy.  I shall indeed c.f. all 1472 pages of Mr. Tolstoy's
work and verify this.

-- 
Gary R. Van Sickle

Re: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Eric Blake]

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Hash: SHA1

According to Igor Peshansky on 4/18/2006 5:23 PM:
> The bottom line is: if you want to receive email on the list, set
> Reply-To: (like I do).  Otherwise most mailers will include your address
> in the To: field.  If the Reply-To: is set and the mailer *still* sends
> email directly to you, the mailer is broken.

Why can't ezmlm be more like mailman - all the lists on lists.gnu.org have
an option where you can choose to have the list skip mails to you if you
are also listed in the To: or CC:.  For example, in my bug-coreutils
subscription options page, I see

Avoid duplicate copies of messages?
When you are listed explicitly in the To: or Cc: headers of a list
message, you can opt to not receive another copy from the mailing list.
Select Yes to avoid receiving copies from the mailing list; select No to
receive copies.
If the list has member personalized messages enabled, and you elect to
receive copies, every copy will have a X-Mailman-Copy: yes header added to
it.

On the other hand, why can't mailman be more like ezmlm?  If you
accidentally delete a mailman message (or if it gets bounced for whatever
reason), you can never get it back; whereas mailman will let you request a
repost for a given message id.

Or why can't we just drop a hippo on the source code for both list
managers, and hope that the force merges them into a single coherent code
base, with the best from both worlds?

Then there is my earlier question[1] about Mail-Followup-To:, and a
complaint that Thunderbird 1.5 changed their default behavior - in
previous versions, Reply-All really did reply all when there is no
Reply-To:, but in 1.5, if Mail-Followup-To: is set, it overrides Reply-To:
and Reply-All becomes a stupid synonym for Reply:.  My experience is that
duplicate messages are most needed for people that are least likely to be
subscribed, since if the reply only goes to the list and they did not
subscribe, they don't see that I actually tried to help them.

[1] http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-talk/2006-q1/msg00224.html

- --
Life is short - so eat dessert first!

Eric Blake             ebb9@byu.net
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Re: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Igor Peshansky]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Eric Blake wrote:

> According to Igor Peshansky on 4/18/2006 5:23 PM:
> > The bottom line is: if you want to receive email on the list, set
> > Reply-To: (like I do).  Otherwise most mailers will include your address
> > in the To: field.  If the Reply-To: is set and the mailer *still* sends
> > email directly to you, the mailer is broken.
>
> Why can't ezmlm be more like mailman - all the lists on lists.gnu.org have
> an option where you can choose to have the list skip mails to you if you
> are also listed in the To: or CC:.  For example, in my bug-coreutils
> subscription options page, I see
>
> Avoid duplicate copies of messages?

Actually, it wouldn't really help in my case, since I'm not subscribed to
the list -- I read it via the web archives.

> On the other hand, why can't mailman be more like ezmlm?  If you
> accidentally delete a mailman message (or if it gets bounced for whatever
> reason), you can never get it back; whereas mailman will let you request a
> repost for a given message id.

Why can't we all just get along?..

> Or why can't we just drop a hippo on the source code for both list
> managers, and hope that the force merges them into a single coherent code
> base, with the best from both worlds?

Heh, next you'll be saying the same about VIm and Emacs...
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Las! je suis sot... -Mais non, tu ne l'es pas, puisque tu t'en rends compte."
"But no -- you are no fool; you call yourself a fool, there's proof enough in
that!" -- Rostand, "Cyrano de Bergerac"

Re: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Eric Blake]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

According to Igor Peshansky on 4/18/2006 10:04 PM:
> 
> Why can't we all just get along?..
> 
> Heh, next you'll be saying the same about VIm and Emacs...

Why stop there - why not get the best of Linux and Windows?

(Oh wait - cygwin does that...)

And speaking of vi vs. emacs, which editor do most cygwin developers use?
 I'm in the emacs camp (okay, hiss if you want), so maybe I should
consider adopting the emacs package since it has been orphaned for so long.

- --
Life is short - so eat dessert first!

Eric Blake             ebb9@byu.net
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Re: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Jason Alonso]

On 4/19/06, Eric Blake wrote:
> And speaking of vi vs. emacs, which editor do most cygwin developers use?
>  I'm in the emacs camp (okay, hiss if you want), so maybe I should
> consider adopting the emacs package since it has been orphaned for so long.

*hiss*  ;-)

If it makes you feel better...

At work, I'm surrounded by emacs users that look at me as though I
should be wearing a straight-jacket whenever they catch me using my
preferred editor (vim).  At the time of my foray into the Cygwin/Linux
world, though, the Almighty Hippo (mysteriously named after a swan)
granted me only VIm.

Cheers,
Jason

Re: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Igor Peshansky]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2006, Eric Blake wrote:

> According to Igor Peshansky on 4/18/2006 10:04 PM:
> >
> > Why can't we all just get along?..
> >
> > Heh, next you'll be saying the same about VIm and Emacs...
>
> Why stop there - why not get the best of Linux and Windows?
>
> (Oh wait - cygwin does that...)

Hmm, only one blank line to realize that...  and no dots in between...
You're much quicker than Dave here. :-D

> And speaking of vi vs. emacs, which editor do most cygwin developers use?
>  I'm in the emacs camp (okay, hiss if you want), so maybe I should
> consider adopting the emacs package since it has been orphaned for so
> long.

Well, can't speak for others, but, following the mantra of eating our own
dog food, I use Cygwin to develop Cygwin stuff.  And, considering that the
only editor that just plain works by default in the Cygwin console is
VIm...

Actually, I was in the vi camp all along anyway.  But thought I'd try to
make a non-religious argument here... :-)
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Las! je suis sot... -Mais non, tu ne l'es pas, puisque tu t'en rends compte."
"But no -- you are no fool; you call yourself a fool, there's proof enough in
that!" -- Rostand, "Cyrano de Bergerac"

Re: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Apr 19 06:34, Eric Blake wrote:
>  [...] so maybe I should
> consider adopting the emacs package since it has been orphaned for so long.

Gotcha!


Corinna

Re: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Christopher Faylor]

On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 06:34:16AM -0600, Eric Blake wrote:
>According to Igor Peshansky on 4/18/2006 10:04 PM:
>>Why can't we all just get along?..
>>
>>Heh, next you'll be saying the same about VIm and Emacs...
>
>Why stop there - why not get the best of Linux and Windows?
>
>(Oh wait - cygwin does that...)
>
>And speaking of vi vs.  emacs, which editor do most cygwin developers
>use?  I'm in the emacs camp (okay, hiss if you want), so maybe I should
>consider adopting the emacs package since it has been orphaned for so
>long.

I use vi.

I started out on a PDP-10 using first TECO, then SOS, then FINE (fine is
not emacs), then EDT.  When I started working mainly on UNIX (Ultrix), I
tried to find an emacs-like editor for everything.  However, when I
switched jobs and starting porting software to a bunch of different UNIX
systems, vi was the only editor which was consistently available.  So, I
reluctantly started using vi all of the time just so I wouldn't go crazy
trying to switch back and forth.

I remember sitting in an associate's office and commiserating about the
*stoopidity* of the whole concept of vi with it's hjkl arrow keys and
different modes for input and editing.  Now I'm happily ensconced in
that mindset.  I still understand the allure of emacs, though.

cgf

Re: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Igor Peshansky]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2006, Christopher Faylor wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 06:34:16AM -0600, Eric Blake wrote:
> >According to Igor Peshansky on 4/18/2006 10:04 PM:
> >>Why can't we all just get along?..
> >>
> >>Heh, next you'll be saying the same about VIm and Emacs...
> >
> >Why stop there - why not get the best of Linux and Windows?
> >
> >(Oh wait - cygwin does that...)
> >
> >And speaking of vi vs.  emacs, which editor do most cygwin developers
> >use?  I'm in the emacs camp (okay, hiss if you want), so maybe I should
> >consider adopting the emacs package since it has been orphaned for so
> >long.
>
> I use vi.
>
> I started out on a PDP-10 using first TECO, then SOS, then FINE (fine is
> not emacs), then EDT.  When I started working mainly on UNIX (Ultrix), I
> tried to find an emacs-like editor for everything.  However, when I
> switched jobs and starting porting software to a bunch of different UNIX
> systems, vi was the only editor which was consistently available.  So, I
> reluctantly started using vi all of the time just so I wouldn't go crazy
> trying to switch back and forth.
>
> I remember sitting in an associate's office and commiserating about the
> *stoopidity* of the whole concept of vi with it's hjkl arrow keys and
> different modes for input and editing.  Now I'm happily ensconced in
> that mindset.  I still understand the allure of emacs, though.

FWIW, it's the only mindset that makes sense for touch-typists.  I mean,
being able to move around the document without taking your fingers off the
home row -- what can be better? :-)
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Las! je suis sot... -Mais non, tu ne l'es pas, puisque tu t'en rends compte."
"But no -- you are no fool; you call yourself a fool, there's proof enough in
that!" -- Rostand, "Cyrano de Bergerac"

Re: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Christopher Faylor]

On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 01:07:42PM -0400, Igor Peshansky wrote:
>On Wed, 19 Apr 2006, Christopher Faylor wrote:
>> I remember sitting in an associate's office and commiserating about the
>> *stoopidity* of the whole concept of vi with it's hjkl arrow keys and
>> different modes for input and editing.  Now I'm happily ensconced in
>> that mindset.  I still understand the allure of emacs, though.
>
>FWIW, it's the only mindset that makes sense for touch-typists.  I mean,
>being able to move around the document without taking your fingers off the
>home row -- what can be better? :-)

Yep, now that you mention it, that's why I am on my fourth IBM
trackpoint keyboard.  My hands never have to leave the home row.

cgf

RE: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Dave Korn]

On 19 April 2006 18:08, Igor Peshansky wrote:

> On Wed, 19 Apr 2006, Christopher Faylor wrote:

>> I remember sitting in an associate's office and commiserating about the
>> *stoopidity* of the whole concept of vi with it's hjkl arrow keys and
>> different modes for input and editing.  Now I'm happily ensconced in
>> that mindset.  I still understand the allure of emacs, though.
> 
> FWIW, it's the only mindset that makes sense for touch-typists.  I mean,
> being able to move around the document without taking your fingers off the
> home row -- what can be better? :-)


  Being able to move your spaceship out of the way of that last asteroid
before it hits you instead of wondering which the hell of these
non-topographically-laid-out keys is actually going to make you go up rather
than down ?



    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

RE: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Dave Korn]

On 19 April 2006 18:00, Christopher Faylor wrote:

> I remember sitting in an associate's office and commiserating about the
> *stoopidity* of the whole concept of vi with it's hjkl arrow keys and

  What is it with non-topographically-positioned cursor clusters anyway?  Most
early ZX Spectrum games used the keys 5678 for up/down/left/right (or
vice-versa) and as a result the trickiest part of any game was not going up
and smashing into a wall when you meant to go down!

    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

Re: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Cary Jamison]

Christopher Faylor wrote:
> I started out on a PDP-10 using first TECO, then SOS, then FINE (fine
> is not emacs), then EDT.  When I started working mainly on UNIX

Ah, TECO - now there was a real editor.  Looked like complete gibberish, 
which reminds me of this old article :

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html

A guy I worked with wrote a TECO macro to search through all our source code 
in all directories to do a global search/replace of a function call he 
wanted to changed.  Doesn't sound too hard today, using sed or other global 
search/replace editors, but it was pretty impressive for the time....

I quickly learned about vtteco and started using it, though.  Similar to the 
visual mode of edt, but I liked it better.


Cary

Re: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Christopher Faylor]

On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 01:31:06PM -0600, Cary Jamison wrote:
>Christopher Faylor wrote:
>> I started out on a PDP-10 using first TECO, then SOS, then FINE (fine
>> is not emacs), then EDT.  When I started working mainly on UNIX
>
>Ah, TECO - now there was a real editor.  Looked like complete gibberish, 
>which reminds me of this old article :
>
>http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html
>
>A guy I worked with wrote a TECO macro to search through all our source code 
>in all directories to do a global search/replace of a function call he 
>wanted to changed.  Doesn't sound too hard today, using sed or other global 
>search/replace editors, but it was pretty impressive for the time....
>
>I quickly learned about vtteco and started using it, though.  Similar to the 
>visual mode of edt, but I liked it better.

Yeah, you have to love an editor where you could spend all day typing
and then wipe out everything with a simple one letter typo.

Still for raw power, it was tough to beat.

cgf

RE: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[Dave Korn]

On 19 April 2006 04:38, Eric Blake wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> According to Igor Peshansky on 4/18/2006 5:23 PM:
>> The bottom line is: if you want to receive email on the list, set
>> Reply-To: (like I do).  Otherwise most mailers will include your address
>> in the To: field.  If the Reply-To: is set and the mailer *still* sends
>> email directly to you, the mailer is broken.
> 
> Why can't ezmlm be more like mailman  [...SNIP...]

  Why can't all FOSS mail software be as good as MS Outlook?  If I get two
duplicate copies of a message with the same Message-Id, it automatically
merges them and I only see one!

    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

Re: Not being given the option of installing packages on setup

[mwoehlke]

Dave Korn wrote:
>   Why can't all FOSS mail software be as good as MS Outlook?

Good question. I'm still waiting on Thunderbird to not limit me to -
what is it, five? - color choices for highlighting messages. Or to give
me RGB controls for color choices instead of that stupid limited palette.

...or to let me actually /post a message/ to these lists! :-)

-- 
Matthew
"Ethics? We've heard of it" -- Microsoft