* Cygwin Book? @ 2007-10-13 11:43 zzapper 2007-10-13 16:35 ` Christopher Faylor 2007-10-16 19:52 ` Igor Peshansky 0 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: zzapper @ 2007-10-13 11:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin-talk Hi I was looking for suitable Technical Books to put on my SquidU http://www.squidoo.com/zzapper/ and was disappointed not to find one on CygWin, are any in progress? -- zzapper http://www.rayninfo.co.uk/vimtips.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-13 11:43 Cygwin Book? zzapper @ 2007-10-13 16:35 ` Christopher Faylor 2007-10-14 13:02 ` zzapper 2007-10-15 11:29 ` Warren Young 2007-10-16 19:52 ` Igor Peshansky 1 sibling, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Christopher Faylor @ 2007-10-13 16:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: The Vulgar and Unprofessional Cygwin-Talk List On Sat, Oct 13, 2007 at 11:39:57AM +0000, zzapper wrote: >Hi >I was looking for suitable Technical Books to put on my SquidU >http://www.squidoo.com/zzapper/ and was disappointed not to find one on >CygWin, are any in progress? I have gotten periodic requests to write a cygwin group from various publishers but it has always seemed like a daunting task to me. It might provide some credibility to Cygwin, though. I'm rather sick of seeing it referred to as a "toy" by various people who think they're insightful. cgf ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-13 16:35 ` Christopher Faylor @ 2007-10-14 13:02 ` zzapper 2007-10-14 13:10 ` Mike Marchywka 2007-10-15 11:29 ` Warren Young 1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: zzapper @ 2007-10-14 13:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin-talk Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please@cygwin.com> wrote in news:20071013163547.GD8304@ednor.casa.cgf.cx: > On Sat, Oct 13, 2007 at 11:39:57AM +0000, zzapper wrote: >>Hi >>I was looking for suitable Technical Books to put on my SquidU >>http://www.squidoo.com/zzapper/ and was disappointed not to find one on >>CygWin, are any in progress? > > I have gotten periodic requests to write a cygwin group from various > publishers but it has always seemed like a daunting task to me. It > might provide some credibility to Cygwin, though. I'm rather sick of > seeing it referred to as a "toy" by various people who think they're > insightful. > > cgf As you say it would raise Cygwin's profile especially to corporates. Perhaps it could be done as a team effort and you must have vast array of material that could be garnered from your postings. -- zzapper http://www.rayninfo.co.uk/vimtips.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-14 13:02 ` zzapper @ 2007-10-14 13:10 ` Mike Marchywka 2007-10-14 16:08 ` Morgan Gangwere 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Mike Marchywka @ 2007-10-14 13:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin-talk Wasn't someone posting here from the UBS domain? I think their disclaimer came up a few times. LOL. I've seen cygwin mentioned on stock message boards. Certainly the speed detracts from serious usage- I think the slow std::string problem was a bug unique to one g++ release ( and I now have all my own char* string routines with custom non-conforming allocators thank you very much .. ) but anything that requires interaction with windoze will be slow. >From: zzapper <david@tvis.co.uk> >Reply-To: The Vulgar and Unprofessional Cygwin-Talk List ><cygwin-talk@cygwin.com> >To: cygwin-talk@cygwin.com >Subject: Re: Cygwin Book? >Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:01:11 +0000 (UTC) > >Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please@cygwin.com> wrote in >news:20071013163547.GD8304@ednor.casa.cgf.cx: > > > On Sat, Oct 13, 2007 at 11:39:57AM +0000, zzapper wrote: > >>Hi > >>I was looking for suitable Technical Books to put on my SquidU > >>http://www.squidoo.com/zzapper/ and was disappointed not to find one on > >>CygWin, are any in progress? > > > > I have gotten periodic requests to write a cygwin group from various > > publishers but it has always seemed like a daunting task to me. It > > might provide some credibility to Cygwin, though. I'm rather sick of > > seeing it referred to as a "toy" by various people who think they're > > insightful. > > > > cgf > >As you say it would raise Cygwin's profile especially to corporates. >Perhaps it could be done as a team effort and you must have vast array of >material that could be garnered from your postings. > > > > > >-- >zzapper >http://www.rayninfo.co.uk/vimtips.html > _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-14 13:10 ` Mike Marchywka @ 2007-10-14 16:08 ` Morgan Gangwere 2007-10-14 16:41 ` Mike Marchywka 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Morgan Gangwere @ 2007-10-14 16:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: The Vulgar and Unprofessional Cygwin-Talk List On 10/14/07, Mike Marchywka <marchywka@theemailservicethatwasonceaperlscriptandnowisrunonvb4> wrote: > > > Wasn't someone posting here from the UBS domain? I think their disclaimer > came up a few times. LOL. I've seen cygwin mentioned on stock > message boards. > > > Certainly the speed detracts from serious usage- I think the slow > std::string problem > was a bug unique to one g++ release ( and I now have all my own char* > string routines with > custom non-conforming allocators thank you very much .. ) but anything that > requires interaction > with windoze will be slow. > > > >From: zzapper <david@wowletsnotgivetheemailaddress!> > >Reply-To: The Vulgar and Unprofessional Cygwin-Talk List > ><cygwin-talk@cygwin.com> > >To: cygwin-talk@cygwin.com > >Subject: Re: Cygwin Book? > >Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:01:11 +0000 (UTC) > > > >Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please@cygwin.com> wrote in > >news:20071013163547.GD8304@ednor.casa.cgf.cx: > > > > > On Sat, Oct 13, 2007 at 11:39:57AM +0000, zzapper wrote: > > >>Hi > > >>I was looking for suitable Technical Books to put on my SquidU > > >>http://www.squidoo.com/zzapper/ and was disappointed not to find one on > > >>CygWin, are any in progress? > > > > > > I have gotten periodic requests to write a cygwin group from various > > > publishers but it has always seemed like a daunting task to me. It > > > might provide some credibility to Cygwin, though. I'm rather sick of > > > seeing it referred to as a "toy" by various people who think they're > > > insightful. > > > > > > cgf > > > >As you say it would raise Cygwin's profile especially to corporates. > >Perhaps it could be done as a team effort and you must have vast array of > >material that could be garnered from your postings. How about we do it like every other major project has done: make a book that gives the overeducated joe just a little bit of information in every area so that they can learn. -- Morgan gangwere Please Excuse TOFU. Gmail/Mobile has no Power. "Space does not reflect society, it expresses it." -- Castells, M., Space of Flows, Space of Places: Materials for a Theory of Urbanism in the Information Age, in The Cybercities Reader, S. Graham, Editor. 2004, Routledge: London. p. 82-93. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-14 16:08 ` Morgan Gangwere @ 2007-10-14 16:41 ` Mike Marchywka 0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Mike Marchywka @ 2007-10-14 16:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin-talk >On 10/14/07, Mike Marchywka ><marchywka@theemailservicethatwasonceaperlscriptandnowisrunonvb4> Hey, that address isn't right. How will people find me if they want to tell me about cheap v-ia-gr-a ? LOL. >From: "Morgan Gangwere" <0.fractalus@gmail.com> >Reply-To: The Vulgar and Unprofessional Cygwin-Talk List ><cygwin-talk@cygwin.com> >To: "The Vulgar and Unprofessional Cygwin-Talk List" ><cygwin-talk@cygwin.com> >Subject: Re: Cygwin Book? >Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 10:07:52 -0600 > >On 10/14/07, Mike Marchywka ><marchywka@theemailservicethatwasonceaperlscriptandnowisrunonvb4> >wrote: > _________________________________________________________________ Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the iÂm Initiative now. ItÂs free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-13 16:35 ` Christopher Faylor 2007-10-14 13:02 ` zzapper @ 2007-10-15 11:29 ` Warren Young 2007-10-15 12:20 ` Mike Marchywka 2007-10-15 16:22 ` Christopher Faylor 1 sibling, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Warren Young @ 2007-10-15 11:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin-talk Christopher Faylor wrote: > > I have gotten periodic requests to write a cygwin group from various > publishers but it has always seemed like a daunting task to me. The trick is in deciding what to cover. It seems to me that just getting Cygwin installed could be stretched to maybe fill a chapter. The hardest part is just finding the packages you need in the tree, and because you can do it iteratively, it doesn't come to much of a practical problem. If I were writing it, I'd probably make this Appendix A, not Chapter 1. You could fill a book with chapters that are basically "how to use Linux on Windows", but really, aren't 99% of Cygwin users *ix transplants anyway? Everyone knows how to use the tools, which is why they've sought out Cygwin in the first place. I guess there are a few who get Cygwin foist upon them as a prerequisite for something else -- some embedded systems compilers are like this, for instance -- but I'd bet this is a tiny minority of users. I point all this out because I think I know what would be the most useful book, and you, cgf, are indeed one of the few people who can do it justice: a book on how Cygwin works and why it is the way it is. Not just cygwin1.dll internals, but how setup.exe packages work, the way various POSIX features are distorted by the Windows lens (symlinks, mounts, IPC, fork, PIDs, permissions...), etc. The Cygwin story is one of compromises, accommodations, and probably even some outright hackery. This is the story that those of us who wish to understand Cygwin need to read. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-15 11:29 ` Warren Young @ 2007-10-15 12:20 ` Mike Marchywka 2007-10-15 16:22 ` Christopher Faylor 1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Mike Marchywka @ 2007-10-15 12:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin-talk >You could fill a book with chapters that are basically "how to use Linux on >Windows", but really, aren't 99% of Cygwin users *ix transplants anyway? >Everyone knows how to use the tools, which is The marginal audience is the "gui-is-the-program" windoze people. The idea is that you can convince them that text and information are as important as graphics without having to convince them to load a new OS and hope they can learn. It wouldn't be a tutorial on any particular tool but rather intro to many tools, I've found scripting and text processing imporant, that allow some useful results for beginners. This was how I got started. Maybe you could solicit cygwin stories to give you some ideas. Personally, I think there is a great public good in getting people to use computers to automate data processing, not create a set of menus that require human intervention to balance a check book. You can theoretically write scripts to talk with your bank,etc. >From: Warren Young <warren@etr-usa.com> >Reply-To: The Vulgar and Unprofessional Cygwin-Talk List ><cygwin-talk@cygwin.com> >To: cygwin-talk@cygwin.com >Subject: Re: Cygwin Book? >Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 05:29:03 -0600 > >Christopher Faylor wrote: >> >>I have gotten periodic requests to write a cygwin group from various >>publishers but it has always seemed like a daunting task to me. > >The trick is in deciding what to cover. > >It seems to me that just getting Cygwin installed could be stretched to >maybe fill a chapter. The hardest part is just finding the packages you >need in the tree, and because you can do it iteratively, it doesn't come to >much of a practical problem. If I were writing it, I'd probably make this >Appendix A, not Chapter 1. > >You could fill a book with chapters that are basically "how to use Linux on >Windows", but really, aren't 99% of Cygwin users *ix transplants anyway? >Everyone knows how to use the tools, which is why they've sought out Cygwin >in the first place. I guess there are a few who get Cygwin foist upon them >as a prerequisite for something else -- some embedded systems compilers are >like this, for instance -- but I'd bet this is a tiny minority of users. > >I point all this out because I think I know what would be the most useful >book, and you, cgf, are indeed one of the few people who can do it justice: >a book on how Cygwin works and why it is the way it is. Not just >cygwin1.dll internals, but how setup.exe packages work, the way various >POSIX features are distorted by the Windows lens (symlinks, mounts, IPC, >fork, PIDs, permissions...), etc. > >The Cygwin story is one of compromises, accommodations, and probably even >some outright hackery. This is the story that those of us who wish to >understand Cygwin need to read. _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_hotmailtextlink2_oct ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-15 11:29 ` Warren Young 2007-10-15 12:20 ` Mike Marchywka @ 2007-10-15 16:22 ` Christopher Faylor 2007-10-15 17:36 ` Corinna Vinschen 2007-10-15 18:04 ` Warren Young 1 sibling, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Christopher Faylor @ 2007-10-15 16:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: The Vulgar and Unprofessional Cygwin-Talk List On Mon, Oct 15, 2007 at 05:29:03AM -0600, Warren Young wrote: > Christopher Faylor wrote: >>I have gotten periodic requests to write a cygwin group from various >>publishers but it has always seemed like a daunting task to me. > >The trick is in deciding what to cover. Yes, exactly. >It seems to me that just getting Cygwin installed could be stretched to >maybe fill a chapter. The hardest part is just finding the packages >you need in the tree, and because you can do it iteratively, it doesn't >come to much of a practical problem. If I were writing it, I'd >probably make this Appendix A, not Chapter 1. > >You could fill a book with chapters that are basically "how to use >Linux on Windows", but really, aren't 99% of Cygwin users *ix >transplants anyway? Everyone knows how to use the tools, which is why >they've sought out Cygwin in the first place. I guess there are a few >who get Cygwin foist upon them as a prerequisite for something else -- >some embedded systems compilers are like this, for instance -- but I'd >bet this is a tiny minority of users. It seems like more and more people are using Cygwin because they want a package that is part of the distribution. We get too many ignorant questions for me to think that many of these people are at all familiar with *IX systems. >I point all this out because I think I know what would be the most >useful book, and you, cgf, are indeed one of the few people who can do >it justice: a book on how Cygwin works and why it is the way it is. >Not just cygwin1.dll internals, but how setup.exe packages work, the >way various POSIX features are distorted by the Windows lens (symlinks, >mounts, IPC, fork, PIDs, permissions...), etc. > >The Cygwin story is one of compromises, accommodations, and probably >even some outright hackery. This is the story that those of us who >wish to understand Cygwin need to read. Actually, this is a book that I wouldn't mind writing (assuming I could get Corinna's help). I don't know how many people would be interested in this though. Writing a book with screen shots of setup.exe and instructions about hitting "Next" is not something that I relish. It may be what people really need though. Whenever I think about doing that, I always think about how many problems people have with the concept of setup.exe and then I start thinking that we should redesign the GUI and provide a command-line utility. Then I get discouraged and just fire up Unreal Tournament 2004 to forget about things. I guess my point is that I'd hate to document the warts in Cygwin when the most profitable use of time would be to fix the warts. But I guess that doesn't really matter since these days, I'm not doing much documenting or fixing. I've been focused on my "real job" for a couple of years now while Corinna does the heavy Cygwin lifting. cgf ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-15 16:22 ` Christopher Faylor @ 2007-10-15 17:36 ` Corinna Vinschen 2007-10-15 17:47 ` Christopher Faylor 2007-10-15 18:04 ` Warren Young 1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Corinna Vinschen @ 2007-10-15 17:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin-talk On Oct 15 12:22, Christopher Faylor wrote: > Whenever I think about doing that, I always think about how many > problems people have with the concept of setup.exe and then I start > thinking that we should redesign the GUI and provide a command-line > utility. Then I get discouraged and just fire up Unreal Tournament 2004 > to forget about things. I'm really glad to read that. I was concerned you'd get depressed and consume too much hippo dung to forget your problems. You know how hippo dung gets in your brain. You're quicker addicted than you're able to say "Through three cheese trees three free fleas flew."(*) Corinna (*) Sorry for being off-topic, but I couldn't find a tongue twister about hippos... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-15 17:36 ` Corinna Vinschen @ 2007-10-15 17:47 ` Christopher Faylor 0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Christopher Faylor @ 2007-10-15 17:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin-talk On Mon, Oct 15, 2007 at 07:36:03PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote: >On Oct 15 12:22, Christopher Faylor wrote: >> Whenever I think about doing that, I always think about how many >> problems people have with the concept of setup.exe and then I start >> thinking that we should redesign the GUI and provide a command-line >> utility. Then I get discouraged and just fire up Unreal Tournament 2004 >> to forget about things. > >I'm really glad to read that. I was concerned you'd get depressed and >consume too much hippo dung to forget your problems. You know how hippo >dung gets in your brain. You're quicker addicted than you're able to >say "Through three cheese trees three free fleas flew."(*) That is an intriguing idea, though. Adding hippo-like aliens to Unreal Tournament. Hmm. cgf ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-15 16:22 ` Christopher Faylor 2007-10-15 17:36 ` Corinna Vinschen @ 2007-10-15 18:04 ` Warren Young 2007-10-15 18:21 ` Christopher Faylor 2007-10-15 18:39 ` Mike Marchywka 1 sibling, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Warren Young @ 2007-10-15 18:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin-talk Christopher Faylor wrote: > > It seems like more and more people are using Cygwin because they want a > package that is part of the distribution. We get too many ignorant > questions for me to think that many of these people are at all familiar > with *IX systems. Yeah, so Chapter 2 (or Appendix B) can be something on the overall philosophy of *ix and how to use the most common tools. My main point is that there's no need for The Unix System Administration Handbook, Cygwin Edition. If someone wants to learn *ix in general, there are plenty of very good books for that, including the purple book. Cygwin is close enough to a "real" *ix that the difference generally doesn't matter to a newbie. This wheel doesn't need to be reinvented. > Whenever I think about doing that, I always think about how many > problems people have with the concept of setup.exe and then I start > thinking that we should redesign the GUI and provide a command-line > utility. That'd be my vote. I don't start threads about it because I know the correct reply is SHTDI, and I'm capable of Doing It, so I can't get out of it on an incompetence plea. :) > Then I get discouraged and just fire up Unreal Tournament 2004 > to forget about things. Back in the day, there was a DOOM mod for Linux system administration. Killing processes was quite natural, for instance. Maybe we can mod one of the Quake engines to install Cygwin. As the packages download and install, new rooms are added. The doors open and each README is represented by a monster that comes out, which can't be killed until you pop into console mode and page through it. When the install process completes, the boss monster, Bill Gates, is imprisoned at the center of the complex to do slave labor on an exercise wheel that turns the wheels that keep the complex running. > I guess my point is that I'd hate to document the warts in Cygwin when > the most profitable use of time would be to fix the warts. I think it's pretty clear by now which ones aren't going away, at least any time soon. The point of the book isn't to deflate egos, it's to be guru guidance in getting up to speed on the raisins de eater of the whole shish-kebab. As I envision it, the book will be maintained publically in DocBook form, available as a PDF in a cygwin-manual package, and almost incidentally published in paper form by any of the several publishers who would be cool with that. That lets us improve the book continuously over time, as long as we have a willing maintainer. FAQ++. And yes, I'm aware that the correct reply to all this is also SHTDI, and I'm halfway to volunteering. The only thing holding me back is that I'm not really a Cygwin power user. There's a lot about it that I really don't understand, even after using it since B16 or so. Generally it Just Works for my limited purposes, so I don't have much call to dig deep into it. What I do know is technical writing, DocBook, and the Unix Way. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-15 18:04 ` Warren Young @ 2007-10-15 18:21 ` Christopher Faylor 2007-10-15 18:39 ` Mike Marchywka 1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Christopher Faylor @ 2007-10-15 18:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: The Vulgar and Unprofessional Cygwin-Talk List On Mon, Oct 15, 2007 at 12:04:03PM -0600, Warren Young wrote: > Christopher Faylor wrote: >> It seems like more and more people are using Cygwin because they want a >> package that is part of the distribution. We get too many ignorant >> questions for me to think that many of these people are at all familiar >> with *IX systems. > > Yeah, so Chapter 2 (or Appendix B) can be something on the overall > philosophy of *ix and how to use the most common tools. > > My main point is that there's no need for The Unix System Administration > Handbook, Cygwin Edition. If someone wants to learn *ix in general, there > are plenty of very good books for that, including the purple book. Cygwin > is close enough to a "real" *ix that the difference generally doesn't > matter to a newbie. This wheel doesn't need to be reinvented. > >> Whenever I think about doing that, I always think about how many >> problems people have with the concept of setup.exe and then I start >> thinking that we should redesign the GUI and provide a command-line >> utility. > > That'd be my vote. I don't start threads about it because I know the > correct reply is SHTDI, and I'm capable of Doing It, so I can't get out of > it on an incompetence plea. :) > >> Then I get discouraged and just fire up Unreal Tournament 2004 >> to forget about things. > > Back in the day, there was a DOOM mod for Linux system administration. > Killing processes was quite natural, for instance. > > Maybe we can mod one of the Quake engines to install Cygwin. As the > packages download and install, new rooms are added. The doors open and > each README is represented by a monster that comes out, which can't be > killed until you pop into console mode and page through it. When the > install process completes, the boss monster, Bill Gates, is imprisoned at > the center of the complex to do slave labor on an exercise wheel that turns > the wheels that keep the complex running. LOLAWIMC (LOL At Work In My Cubicle) > And yes, I'm aware that the correct reply to all this is also SHTDI, and > I'm halfway to volunteering. The only thing holding me back is that I'm > not really a Cygwin power user. There's a lot about it that I really don't > understand, even after using it since B16 or so. Generally it Just Works > for my limited purposes, so I don't have much call to dig deep into it. > > What I do know is technical writing, DocBook, and the Unix Way. In this case, the principle might just be "SHTSI" (Someone Has To Start It). If I had a framework to work with I might be interested in adding to it from time to time. cgf ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-15 18:04 ` Warren Young 2007-10-15 18:21 ` Christopher Faylor @ 2007-10-15 18:39 ` Mike Marchywka 1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Mike Marchywka @ 2007-10-15 18:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin-talk >>thinking that we should redesign the GUI and provide a command-line >>utility. Doh! Debian apt works ok. But,seriously, maybe for the new-to-gnu people, a GUI app is a good intro. Obviously, you can't make them hunt down corrupt .gz files everytime it crashes :) As far as other points, you could get cygwin success stories. I can contribute scripts for mining specialty sources for e-mail addresses or the script that caused commercial sites to reject a shared IP address for a while :) >From: Warren Young <warren@etr-usa.com> >Reply-To: The Vulgar and Unprofessional Cygwin-Talk List ><cygwin-talk@cygwin.com> >To: cygwin-talk@cygwin.com >Subject: Re: Cygwin Book? >Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:04:03 -0600 > >Christopher Faylor wrote: >> >>It seems like more and more people are using Cygwin because they want a >>package that is part of the distribution. We get too many ignorant >>questions for me to think that many of these people are at all familiar >>with *IX systems. > >Yeah, so Chapter 2 (or Appendix B) can be something on the overall >philosophy of *ix and how to use the most common tools. > >My main point is that there's no need for The Unix System Administration >Handbook, Cygwin Edition. If someone wants to learn *ix in general, there >are plenty of very good books for that, including the purple book. Cygwin >is close enough to a "real" *ix that the difference generally doesn't >matter to a newbie. This wheel doesn't need to be reinvented. > >>Whenever I think about doing that, I always think about how many >>problems people have with the concept of setup.exe and then I start >>thinking that we should redesign the GUI and provide a command-line >>utility. > >That'd be my vote. I don't start threads about it because I know the >correct reply is SHTDI, and I'm capable of Doing It, so I can't get out of >it on an incompetence plea. :) > >>Then I get discouraged and just fire up Unreal Tournament 2004 >>to forget about things. > >Back in the day, there was a DOOM mod for Linux system administration. >Killing processes was quite natural, for instance. > >Maybe we can mod one of the Quake engines to install Cygwin. As the >packages download and install, new rooms are added. The doors open and >each README is represented by a monster that comes out, which can't be >killed until you pop into console mode and page through it. When the >install process completes, the boss monster, Bill Gates, is imprisoned at >the center of the complex to do slave labor on an exercise wheel that turns >the wheels that keep the complex running. > >>I guess my point is that I'd hate to document the warts in Cygwin when >>the most profitable use of time would be to fix the warts. > >I think it's pretty clear by now which ones aren't going away, at least any >time soon. The point of the book isn't to deflate egos, it's to be guru >guidance in getting up to speed on the raisins de eater of the whole >shish-kebab. > >As I envision it, the book will be maintained publically in DocBook form, >available as a PDF in a cygwin-manual package, and almost incidentally >published in paper form by any of the several publishers who would be cool >with that. That lets us improve the book continuously over time, as long >as we have a willing maintainer. FAQ++. > >And yes, I'm aware that the correct reply to all this is also SHTDI, and >I'm halfway to volunteering. The only thing holding me back is that I'm >not really a Cygwin power user. There's a lot about it that I really don't >understand, even after using it since B16 or so. Generally it Just Works >for my limited purposes, so I don't have much call to dig deep into it. > >What I do know is technical writing, DocBook, and the Unix Way. _________________________________________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop by today! http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHMtagline ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-13 11:43 Cygwin Book? zzapper 2007-10-13 16:35 ` Christopher Faylor @ 2007-10-16 19:52 ` Igor Peshansky 2007-10-17 15:56 ` Dave Korn 1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Igor Peshansky @ 2007-10-16 19:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: The Vulgar and Unprofessional Cygwin-Talk List On Sat, 13 Oct 2007, zzapper wrote: > Hi > I was looking for suitable Technical Books to put on my SquidU > http://www.squidoo.com/zzapper/ and was disappointed not to find one on > CygWin, are any in progress? It's "Cygwin"... :-) And you could try section 23.14 of http://safari.oreilly.com/0596527543 (short as it is). Igor -- http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/ |\ _,,,---,,_ pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!) |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' old name: Igor Pechtchanski '---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-. Meow! Belief can be manipulated. Only knowledge is dangerous. -- Frank Herbert ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* RE: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-16 19:52 ` Igor Peshansky @ 2007-10-17 15:56 ` Dave Korn 2007-10-17 16:01 ` Christopher Faylor 2007-10-18 16:37 ` Igor Peshansky 0 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Dave Korn @ 2007-10-17 15:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'oh noes! they be stealin' mah bukk^H^H^H^Hhippoz!' On 16 October 2007 20:52, Igor Peshansky wrote: > On Sat, 13 Oct 2007, zzapper wrote: > >> Hi >> I was looking for suitable Technical Books to put on my SquidU >> http://www.squidoo.com/zzapper/ and was disappointed not to find one on >> CygWin, are any in progress? > > It's "Cygwin"... :-) > And you could try section 23.14 of http://safari.oreilly.com/0596527543 > (short as it is). > Igor Nope, that's IT: as far as I'm concerned, there's never going to be any point writing a Cygwin book, because O'Reilly have already allocated the hippo pictures to Java. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/jscook/colophon.html What /were/ they thinking of? cheers, DaveK -- Can't think of a witty .sigline today.... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-17 15:56 ` Dave Korn @ 2007-10-17 16:01 ` Christopher Faylor 2007-10-18 13:39 ` zzapper 2007-10-18 16:37 ` Igor Peshansky 1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Christopher Faylor @ 2007-10-17 16:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: The Vulgar and Unprofessional Cygwin-Talk List On Wed, Oct 17, 2007 at 04:56:08PM +0100, Dave Korn wrote: >On 16 October 2007 20:52, Igor Peshansky wrote: > >> On Sat, 13 Oct 2007, zzapper wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> I was looking for suitable Technical Books to put on my SquidU >>> http://www.squidoo.com/zzapper/ and was disappointed not to find one on >>> CygWin, are any in progress? >> >> It's "Cygwin"... :-) >> And you could try section 23.14 of http://safari.oreilly.com/0596527543 >> (short as it is). >> Igor > > Nope, that's IT: as far as I'm concerned, there's never going to be any >point writing a Cygwin book, because O'Reilly have already allocated the hippo >pictures to Java. > >http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/jscook/colophon.html > > What /were/ they thinking of? I'll bet Microsoft put them up to it. We all know that they have it in for CygWin. cgf ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-17 16:01 ` Christopher Faylor @ 2007-10-18 13:39 ` zzapper 2007-10-18 16:44 ` Igor Peshansky 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: zzapper @ 2007-10-18 13:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin-talk Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please@cygwin.com> wrote in news:20071017160114.GA4489@trixie.casa.cgf.cx: >>point writing a Cygwin book, because O'Reilly have already allocated the >>hippo pictures to Java. >> >>http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/jscook/colophon.html >> > I'll bet Microsoft put them up to it. We all know that they have it in > for CygWin. Drat!! An important section of the hippothetical (sic) Cygwin book could be on the Windows/Cygwin interactivity, from unix2dos, getclip, putclip, cygstart, how/why you should use mounts, antiword, activating your shell from Windows- Explorer, how you personalise your setup with aliases etc-etc. How you can write a shell script to automate backups etc-etc I really think there is a need for it! -- zzapper http://www.rayninfo.co.uk/vimtips.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-18 13:39 ` zzapper @ 2007-10-18 16:44 ` Igor Peshansky 0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Igor Peshansky @ 2007-10-18 16:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: The Vulgar and Unprofessional Cygwin-Talk List On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, zzapper wrote: > Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please@cygwin.com> wrote in > news:20071017160114.GA4489@trixie.casa.cgf.cx: > > >>point writing a Cygwin book, because O'Reilly have already allocated the > >>hippo pictures to Java. > >> > >>http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/jscook/colophon.html > >> > > I'll bet Microsoft put them up to it. We all know that they have it in > > for CygWin. > > Drat!! > > An important section of the hippothetical (sic) Cygwin book could be on the > Windows/Cygwin interactivity, from unix2dos, getclip, putclip, cygstart, > how/why you should use mounts, antiword, activating your shell from Windows- > Explorer, how you personalise your setup with aliases etc-etc. > > How you can write a shell script to automate backups etc-etc > > I really think there is a need for it! The chapter of the book I quoted actually has all of the stuff you mentioned... It *is* rather short, though. Igor -- http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/ |\ _,,,---,,_ pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!) |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' old name: Igor Pechtchanski '---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-. Meow! Belief can be manipulated. Only knowledge is dangerous. -- Frank Herbert ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* RE: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-17 15:56 ` Dave Korn 2007-10-17 16:01 ` Christopher Faylor @ 2007-10-18 16:37 ` Igor Peshansky 2007-10-18 16:50 ` Phil Betts 2007-10-18 18:52 ` Cary Jamison 1 sibling, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Igor Peshansky @ 2007-10-18 16:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: The Vulgar and Unprofessional Cygwin-Talk List On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, Dave Korn wrote: > On 16 October 2007 20:52, Igor Peshansky wrote: > > > On Sat, 13 Oct 2007, zzapper wrote: > > > >> Hi > >> I was looking for suitable Technical Books to put on my SquidU > >> http://www.squidoo.com/zzapper/ and was disappointed not to find one on > >> CygWin, are any in progress? > > > > It's "Cygwin"... :-) > > And you could try section 23.14 of http://safari.oreilly.com/0596527543 > > (short as it is). > > Igor > > Nope, that's IT: as far as I'm concerned, there's never going to be any > point writing a Cygwin book, because O'Reilly have already allocated the hippo > pictures to Java. > > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/jscook/colophon.html > > What /were/ they thinking of? And both river and sea otters are taken... :-( Igor -- http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/ |\ _,,,---,,_ pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!) |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' old name: Igor Pechtchanski '---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-. Meow! Belief can be manipulated. Only knowledge is dangerous. -- Frank Herbert ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* RE: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-18 16:37 ` Igor Peshansky @ 2007-10-18 16:50 ` Phil Betts 2007-10-18 18:52 ` Cary Jamison 1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Phil Betts @ 2007-10-18 16:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin-talk Igor Peshansky wrote on Thursday, October 18, 2007 5:37 PM:: > On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, Dave Korn wrote: > >> Nope, that's IT: as far as I'm concerned, there's never going to >> be any point writing a Cygwin book, because O'Reilly have already >> allocated the hippo pictures to Java. >> >> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/jscook/colophon.html >> >> What /were/ they thinking of? > > And both river and sea otters are taken... :-( > Igor I think pygmy hippos are still available. They're cuter than the big ones and don't make as big a splat when they sit on you. I'm just not sure they're mean enough to qualify as a cygwin mascot. Phil ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-18 16:37 ` Igor Peshansky 2007-10-18 16:50 ` Phil Betts @ 2007-10-18 18:52 ` Cary Jamison 2007-10-18 19:19 ` Igor Peshansky 1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Cary Jamison @ 2007-10-18 18:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin-talk Igor Peshansky wrote: > On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, Dave Korn wrote: > > And both river and sea otters are taken... :-( I never understood what happened to the poor otters. They just suddenly seemed to have been crushed by hippos! One day everyone is talking about making otters the mascot, there were icons and gifs flying around, and then hippos just showed up and took over the party. Cary ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin Book? 2007-10-18 18:52 ` Cary Jamison @ 2007-10-18 19:19 ` Igor Peshansky 0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Igor Peshansky @ 2007-10-18 19:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: The Vulgar and Unprofessional Cygwin-Talk List On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, Cary Jamison wrote: > Igor Peshansky wrote: > > On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, Dave Korn wrote: > > > > And both river and sea otters are taken... :-( > > I never understood what happened to the poor otters. They just suddenly > seemed to have been crushed by hippos! One day everyone is talking about > making otters the mascot, there were icons and gifs flying around, and then > hippos just showed up and took over the party. Hippos are meaner. Igor -- http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/ |\ _,,,---,,_ pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!) |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' old name: Igor Pechtchanski '---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-. Meow! Belief can be manipulated. Only knowledge is dangerous. -- Frank Herbert ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2007-10-18 19:19 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 23+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2007-10-13 11:43 Cygwin Book? zzapper 2007-10-13 16:35 ` Christopher Faylor 2007-10-14 13:02 ` zzapper 2007-10-14 13:10 ` Mike Marchywka 2007-10-14 16:08 ` Morgan Gangwere 2007-10-14 16:41 ` Mike Marchywka 2007-10-15 11:29 ` Warren Young 2007-10-15 12:20 ` Mike Marchywka 2007-10-15 16:22 ` Christopher Faylor 2007-10-15 17:36 ` Corinna Vinschen 2007-10-15 17:47 ` Christopher Faylor 2007-10-15 18:04 ` Warren Young 2007-10-15 18:21 ` Christopher Faylor 2007-10-15 18:39 ` Mike Marchywka 2007-10-16 19:52 ` Igor Peshansky 2007-10-17 15:56 ` Dave Korn 2007-10-17 16:01 ` Christopher Faylor 2007-10-18 13:39 ` zzapper 2007-10-18 16:44 ` Igor Peshansky 2007-10-18 16:37 ` Igor Peshansky 2007-10-18 16:50 ` Phil Betts 2007-10-18 18:52 ` Cary Jamison 2007-10-18 19:19 ` Igor Peshansky
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