* Re: copying and pasting in the terminal window? [not found] ` <001601c6c7d5$de748ee0$020aa8c0@DFW5RB41> @ 2006-08-25 16:17 ` mwoehlke 2006-08-26 0:26 ` Gary R. Van Sickle 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: mwoehlke @ 2006-08-25 16:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin-talk TITTTL'd, as this is becoming a "my terminal emulator is bigger than your terminal emulator" contest. Gary R. Van Sickle wrote: > mwoehlke wrote: >> Gary R. Van Sickle wrote: >>> mwoehlke wrote: >>>> Cygwin also has an rxvt terminal emulator that may be more to your >>>> liking, but I haven't used it and so can't tell you what it's like. >>> It's awesome, if you're still using the DOS box change over >>> immediately. Believe me now and thank me later. >> Awesome? > > Awesome. Maybe for you... >> [it] is a PITA to configure, > > Mm, no, in the Unixoid scheme of things it's probably one of the easier > programs to configure. The main trick is (or at least used to be) getting > your delete, home, end, etc keys working right, and I can send you my > magical .initrc to take care of that post-haste. What can I say, I like menus. 'Settings->Configure Konsole'. See how easy that was? Console is just as easy. rxvt needs command line switches, or something. I shouldn't have to read a manpage for this stuff, as a *good* terminal emulator (like {C|K}onsole) will demonstrate. >> has an ugly font, > > ??? You can pick whatever font you want, even the cmd one if you want. Maybe if I go through that PITA configure process... but who has time for manpages for something that should be 'View->Font'? I didn't check if Console has documentation, but I've never needed it, just like with Konsole. That, and on my other computer (that has Konsole), Cygwin X has no fonts that *aren't* ugly. >> And I >> see exactly zero ways in which it is an improvement over Console. > > Copy/paste, scrollback buffer, and "Unix-like, X or no X" are three that > immediately come to mind. Hello? Even the CUI subsystem has scroll-back... And Console has the added advantage of NON-Cygwin sessions, which is very useful to me. :-) Have you tried the copy/paste in Console? It works just like it does in Konsole or (AFAICT) rxvt. >> Console is awesome, if you're still using rxvt change over >> immediately. > > Nope, if you look back you'll turn into a pillar of salt! Oh, my, I'm sure you're right. Better not touch rxvt again. :-) >> Believe me now and thank me later. :-) > > I shall do neither! ;-) > >> If you *must* have an X-based terminal emulator for some >> reason (or even just something that isn't using the CUI >> subsystem under the covers), I would strongly recommend >> Konsole as VASTLY superior to xterm/rxvt. You can get an old >> version... um, somewhere, or wait and see if KDE4 makes good >> on native Windows support (which I guess would no longer be >> X-based, but would also not need an X server). > > Well you can rest assured I shall give it a try should they come out with a > native port. And it will have all the features of Console AND rxvt in one, and you'll love it. :-) > Now in the meantime, get rxvt installed before it's too > late!!! To get you started, here's the command line of the shortcut I've > used for countless years of cmd-free Cygwinning: > > C:\unix\bin\rxvt.exe -tn rxvt-cygwin-native -sr -sl 1000 -fn "Lucida > Console-bold-14" -e bash --login -i Nice DOS path there... "bash: C:unixbinrxvt.exe: command not found" ;-) See what I mean about configuration? With Console, it took me all of ten seconds to figure out how to change the font, and I didn't have to read anything but menus. Oh, and... "rxvt: can't open display 127.0.0.1:0" And no tabs, and no menu, and no status bar, and I can't read anything against the white background and now I'm going to have to read the manpage, and... Ok. So, after reading the manpage for half an hour, I wrote this script that gets me *closer* to what Console does (no manpage required)... ---- #!/bin/bash unset DISPLAY font="Terminal--9" colors() { cat << EOF --color0 #000000 --color1 #C00000 --color2 #00C000 --color3 #C08000 --color4 #0000C0 --color5 #C000C0 --color6 #00C0C0 --color7 #C0C0C0 --color8 #606060 --color9 #FF6060 --color10 #60FF60 --color11 #FFFF60 --color12 #6060FF --color13 #FF60FF --color14 #60FFFF --color15 #FFFFFF EOF } rxvt -tn rxvt-cygwin-native -sr -sl 1000 -fn "$font" -fb "$font" -fg 7 -bg 0 -cr '#C0C0C0' -pr 7 `colors` -e bash --login -i ---- ...and I still don't know how to specify width and height. rxvt is simply much more lacking in features; end of story. -- Matthew '$ time make world' -> real 5d:14h:37m:5.291s user 0m:0.000s sys 4d:2h:14m:43.712s ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* RE: copying and pasting in the terminal window? 2006-08-25 16:17 ` copying and pasting in the terminal window? mwoehlke @ 2006-08-26 0:26 ` Gary R. Van Sickle 2006-08-28 15:26 ` mwoehlke 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Gary R. Van Sickle @ 2006-08-26 0:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'The Cygwin-Talk Maiming List' > From: mwoehlke > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 11:16 AM > Subject: Re: copying and pasting in the terminal window? > > TITTTL'd, as this is becoming a "my terminal emulator is > bigger than your terminal emulator" contest. > Oh, it's no contest. ;-) > Gary R. Van Sickle wrote: > > mwoehlke wrote: > >> Gary R. Van Sickle wrote: > >>> mwoehlke wrote: > >>>> Cygwin also has an rxvt terminal emulator that may be > more to your > >>>> liking, but I haven't used it and so can't tell you what > it's like. > >>> It's awesome, if you're still using the DOS box change over > >>> immediately. Believe me now and thank me later. > >> Awesome? > > > > Awesome. > > Maybe for you... > Or maybe... for all mankind? > >> [it] is a PITA to configure, > > > > Mm, no, in the Unixoid scheme of things it's probably one of the > > easier programs to configure. The main trick is (or at > least used to > > be) getting your delete, home, end, etc keys working right, > and I can > > send you my magical .initrc to take care of that post-haste. > > What can I say, I like menus. Well, sure, who *doesn't* like menus? > 'Settings->Configure Konsole'. > See how easy that was? Since I'm still waiting for the native Windows version, I'm afraid I must report that no, I didn't see it. > Console is just as easy. I'm starting to get confused now: by "Console" you mean the regular cmd.exe window, right? Not the other, non-MS "Console" that Marko Bozikovic is talking about on the cygwin@ list? I'll assume the former for the remainder of this post. So ok, let's take a commonly used setting like, oh, window width: Rxvt: 'Drag side or corner to the right, window gets bigger.' Cmd.exe: 'Drag side or corner to the right... well, you can't, so nothing happens.' > rxvt needs > command line switches, or something. I shouldn't have to read > a manpage for this stuff, as a *good* terminal emulator (like > {C|K}onsole) will demonstrate. > ?!??!???????!?!??!?!?!!! 1. You don't need to read a man page, I did all the work for you already in the last post. B. If you have an aversion to command line options, may I humbly suggest that you stay as far away from anything even remotely Unix as possible? ;-) > >> has an ugly font, > > > > ??? You can pick whatever font you want, even the cmd one > if you want. > > Maybe if I go through that PITA configure process... ...yeah, or copy and paste the command line I gave you. > but who > has time for manpages for something that should be > 'View->Font'? Or 'make window wider'? I know I don't! ;-) > I didn't check if Console has documentation, > but I've never needed it, ...unless you ever needed to copy and/or paste. You can't tell me that you figured out "try-to-select/oops-no-I-have-to-select-Edit-Mark-first/ok-did-that/mark/tur n-around-three-times/oops-I-just-right-clicked-and-lost-my-selection-did-tha t-also-copy-to-clipboard?/umm-I-don't-remember-let's-see/etc-etc-etc" without any help. > just like with Konsole. That, and > on my other computer (that has Konsole), Cygwin X has no > fonts that *aren't* ugly. > ??? Then use the non-X rxvt! It's freedom baby, yeah! > >> And I > >> see exactly zero ways in which it is an improvement over Console. > > > > Copy/paste, scrollback buffer, and "Unix-like, X or no X" are three > > that immediately come to mind. > > Hello? That's a big 10-4 good buddy, you're coming in wall to wall, come back. > Even the CUI subsystem has scroll-back... And Console > has the added advantage of NON-Cygwin sessions, which is very > useful to me. :-) > > Have you tried the copy/paste in Console? It works just like > it does in Konsole or (AFAICT) rxvt. > No, it doesn't, unless we're talking about Marko Bozikovic's Console here, then I don't know. And if you're saying that Konsole's copy/paste is the same as cmd.exe's, well, good night nurse! > >> Console is awesome, if you're still using rxvt change over > >> immediately. > > > > Nope, if you look back you'll turn into a pillar of salt! > > Oh, my, I'm sure you're right. Better not touch rxvt again. :-) > > >> Believe me now and thank me later. :-) > > > > I shall do neither! ;-) > > > >> If you *must* have an X-based terminal emulator for some > reason (or > >> even just something that isn't using the CUI subsystem under the > >> covers), I would strongly recommend Konsole as VASTLY superior to > >> xterm/rxvt. You can get an old version... um, somewhere, > or wait and > >> see if KDE4 makes good on native Windows support (which I > guess would > >> no longer be X-based, but would also not need an X server). > > > > Well you can rest assured I shall give it a try should they > come out > > with a native port. > > And it will have all the features of Console AND rxvt in one, > and you'll love it. :-) > Coulda shoulda woulda. Wake me when it ships. ;-) > > Now in the meantime, get rxvt installed before it's too late!!! To > > get you started, here's the command line of the shortcut > I've used for > > countless years of cmd-free Cygwinning: > > > > C:\unix\bin\rxvt.exe -tn rxvt-cygwin-native -sr -sl 1000 > -fn "Lucida > > Console-bold-14" -e bash --login -i > > Nice DOS path there... "bash: C:unixbinrxvt.exe: command not > found" ;-) > Nonono, don't paste it into bash! Make a shortcut in your... whatever that bar is next to the "Start" button... and paste that command line in the "Shortcut->Target" box. Now admittedly that's a tab, not a menu, but if you're like me, you like tabs even more than menus! > See what I mean about configuration? Honestly? No. > With Console, it took me > all of ten seconds to figure out how to change the font, and > I didn't have to read anything but menus. > And you do this font-changing often do you? > Oh, and... > "rxvt: can't open display 127.0.0.1:0" > I think you have either installed the wrong one or have DISPLAY set wrong. > And no tabs, and no menu, and no status bar, No need! > and I can't read > anything against the white background Oh pah-leez. And regardless, if you don't like it you can change it, as you've found out below. > and now I'm going to > have to read the manpage, and... > > Ok. So, after reading the manpage for half an hour, I wrote > this script that gets me *closer* to what Console does (no > manpage required)... > > ---- > #!/bin/bash > unset DISPLAY > font="Terminal--9" > > colors() { > cat << EOF > --color0 #000000 > --color1 #C00000 > --color2 #00C000 > --color3 #C08000 > --color4 #0000C0 > --color5 #C000C0 > --color6 #00C0C0 > --color7 #C0C0C0 > --color8 #606060 > --color9 #FF6060 > --color10 #60FF60 > --color11 #FFFF60 > --color12 #6060FF > --color13 #FF60FF > --color14 #60FFFF > --color15 #FFFFFF > EOF > } > > rxvt -tn rxvt-cygwin-native -sr -sl 1000 -fn "$font" -fb > "$font" -fg 7 -bg 0 -cr '#C0C0C0' -pr 7 `colors` -e bash --login -i > ---- > > ...and I still don't know how to specify width and height. ...ahhh, me thinks the mwoehlke doth protest too much! Come over to the side of awesomeness, my young apprentice! > rxvt is simply much more lacking in features; end of story. > Is it? Are you sure you haven't figured out how to specify width and/or height since you posted this? Let the power of rxvt flow through you! -- Gary R. Van Sickle ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: copying and pasting in the terminal window? 2006-08-26 0:26 ` Gary R. Van Sickle @ 2006-08-28 15:26 ` mwoehlke 2006-08-28 17:13 ` Cary Jamison 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: mwoehlke @ 2006-08-28 15:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin-talk Gary R. Van Sickle wrote: >> From: mwoehlke >>>> [rxvt] is a PITA to configure, >>> Mm, no, in the Unixoid scheme of things it's probably one of the >>> easier programs to configure. The main trick is (or at >> least used to >>> be) getting your delete, home, end, etc keys working right, >> and I can >>> send you my magical .initrc to take care of that post-haste. >> What can I say, I like menus. > > Well, sure, who *doesn't* like menus? > >> 'Settings->Configure Konsole'. >> See how easy that was? > > Since I'm still waiting for the native Windows version, I'm afraid I must > report that no, I didn't see it. >> Console is just as easy. > > I'm starting to get confused now: by "Console" you mean the regular cmd.exe > window, right? Not the other, non-MS "Console" that Marko Bozikovic is > talking about on the cygwin@ list? I'll assume the former for the remainder > of this post. Oh, now I understand. Of course the CUI as-is is cruddy. I'm talking about Marko's 'console.exe'. No wonder you are unenlightened. :-) > So ok, let's take a commonly used setting like, oh, window width: > > Rxvt: 'Drag side or corner to the right, window gets bigger.' > Cmd.exe: 'Drag side or corner to the right... well, you can't, so nothing > happens.' Console.exe: drag side or corner to the right... Windows gets bigger, *AND* when you let go, you can see *HOW* big it is. Rxvt is missing this. (Konsole shows you in a pop-up /while/ dragging, which is better, but only for a second after, which is slightly worse.) Rxvt: Hope 'echo $COLUMNS', etc works CUI: Find out in properties Konsole: resize the window, look at the pop-up Console: Hmm, is that a status bar with the information? >> rxvt needs >> command line switches, or something. I shouldn't have to read >> a manpage for this stuff, as a *good* terminal emulator (like >> {C|K}onsole) will demonstrate. > > ?!??!???????!?!??!?!?!!! Settings->Configure Konsole. A full GUI for changing everything. Similarly, Edit->Settings (in Console). > 1. You don't need to read a man page, I did all the work for you already in > the last post. No you didn't. I had to read the manpage to change the colors. At any rate, it is still less discoverable than a proper configuration interface; I had to read the manpage *or* someone had to tell me how to do it. With Console, I easily found Edit->Settings, from where it was obvious how to make the changes I wanted. > B. If you have an aversion to command line options, may I humbly suggest > that you stay as far away from anything even remotely Unix as possible? ;-) Of course you may! ;-) >> With Console, it took me >> all of ten seconds to figure out how to change the font, and >> I didn't have to read anything but menus. > > And you do this font-changing often do you? No, but it still took me a fraction of the time to make Console look like I wanted it to, than to get rxvt halfway there. >> And no tabs, and no menu, and no status bar, > > No need! I like tabs. I like tabs a LOT better than ten icons on my task bar. I suppose you don't use them in Firefox either? (If you even use Firefox...) >> [snip] > > ...ahhh, me thinks the mwoehlke doth protest too much! Come over to the > side of awesomeness, my young apprentice! Nope. Just like Console better. -- Matthew We are Microsoft. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. --Badtech ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: copying and pasting in the terminal window? 2006-08-28 15:26 ` mwoehlke @ 2006-08-28 17:13 ` Cary Jamison 2006-08-28 17:57 ` Igor Peshansky 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Cary Jamison @ 2006-08-28 17:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin-talk mwoehlke wrote: > > Oh, now I understand. Of course the CUI as-is is cruddy. I'm talking > about Marko's 'console.exe'. No wonder you are unenlightened. :-) I've just started playing with this, also...I like it! I like tabs, too. And I like that my regular windows programs work as well, which is something that rxvt doesn't give me. Cary ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: copying and pasting in the terminal window? 2006-08-28 17:13 ` Cary Jamison @ 2006-08-28 17:57 ` Igor Peshansky 2006-08-28 18:56 ` mwoehlke 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Igor Peshansky @ 2006-08-28 17:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: The Cygwin-Talk Maiming List On Mon, 28 Aug 2006, Cary Jamison wrote: > mwoehlke wrote: > > > > Oh, now I understand. Of course the CUI as-is is cruddy. I'm talking > > about Marko's 'console.exe'. No wonder you are unenlightened. :-) > > I've just started playing with this, also...I like it! I like tabs, > too. And I like that my regular windows programs work as well, which is > something that rxvt doesn't give me. Ah, but does it understand all the ANSI sequences? And do Ctrl-Space and Ctrl-C work properly in it? Igor -- http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/ |\ _,,,---,,_ pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!) |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' old name: Igor Pechtchanski '---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-. Meow! "Las! je suis sot... -Mais non, tu ne l'es pas, puisque tu t'en rends compte." "But no -- you are no fool; you call yourself a fool, there's proof enough in that!" -- Rostand, "Cyrano de Bergerac" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: copying and pasting in the terminal window? 2006-08-28 17:57 ` Igor Peshansky @ 2006-08-28 18:56 ` mwoehlke 2006-08-29 15:44 ` Cary Jamison 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: mwoehlke @ 2006-08-28 18:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin-talk Igor Peshansky wondered if Console is right for him?: > On Mon, 28 Aug 2006, Cary Jamison also discovered that Console rocks!: >> mwoehlke extolled the greatness of Console, by Marko (*not* the CUI): >> I've just started playing with this, also...I like it! I like tabs, >> too. And I like that my regular windows programs work as well, which is >> something that rxvt doesn't give me. > > Ah, but does it understand all the ANSI sequences? And do Ctrl-Space and > Ctrl-C work properly in it? Which ANSI sequences? In general, it does everything the CUI subsystem does (because it is using a CUI under the hood). Ctrl-C WFM if you mean sending SIGINT (and it seems to understand 'stty intr <blah>', after which <blah> sends SIGINT and ctrl-C dings at me). Ctrl-space however seems to be the same as regular space. Since I'm not an emacs person (I think that's what we're talking about?), I'm not missing anything here... -- Matthew We are Microsoft. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. --Badtech ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: copying and pasting in the terminal window? 2006-08-28 18:56 ` mwoehlke @ 2006-08-29 15:44 ` Cary Jamison 0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Cary Jamison @ 2006-08-29 15:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin-talk mwoehlke wrote: > Igor Peshansky wondered if Console is right for him?: >> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006, Cary Jamison also discovered that Console >> rocks!: >>> mwoehlke extolled the greatness of Console, by Marko (*not* the >>> CUI): I've just started playing with this, also...I like it! I >>> like tabs, too. And I like that my regular windows programs work as >>> well, which is something that rxvt doesn't give me. >> >> Ah, but does it understand all the ANSI sequences? And do >> Ctrl-Space and Ctrl-C work properly in it? > > Which ANSI sequences? In general, it does everything the CUI subsystem > does (because it is using a CUI under the hood). Ctrl-C WFM if you > mean sending SIGINT (and it seems to understand 'stty intr <blah>', > after which <blah> sends SIGINT and ctrl-C dings at me). Ctrl-space > however seems to be the same as regular space. > > Since I'm not an emacs person (I think that's what we're talking > about?), I'm not missing anything here... I usually use xemacs in a separate window, so these things don't bother me, either. But, it does have issues with xemacs -nw. One annoying thing is that even if you have the menu bar hidden, m-f, m-e, m-h, etc., still pop up the menus instead of getting sent to the app. I guess I could see where that could be useful, but when you're wrapping a console window you can't assume you can have any keys for yourself, or you need a way to turn on and off if they get passed through. Cary ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2006-08-29 15:38 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <eckhf7$mmm$1@sea.gmane.org> [not found] ` <001601c6c7d5$de748ee0$020aa8c0@DFW5RB41> 2006-08-25 16:17 ` copying and pasting in the terminal window? mwoehlke 2006-08-26 0:26 ` Gary R. Van Sickle 2006-08-28 15:26 ` mwoehlke 2006-08-28 17:13 ` Cary Jamison 2006-08-28 17:57 ` Igor Peshansky 2006-08-28 18:56 ` mwoehlke 2006-08-29 15:44 ` Cary Jamison
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