The character '‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮҉'

The character '‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮҉'

[Dave Korn]

  Maybe if I try again, in UTF-8 encoding this time.  Meanwhile just for new content, I hear that corrupt perjurer Gonzales has just resigned.  Hooray.


  I just read about it on tdwtf[*], so I wondered if it would work here too.

   So then:  ‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮҉

.retcarahc taht retfa sdrawkcab enog evah dluohs gnihtyreveE  .gnikrow s'ti kniht t'nod I ,epoN  

‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮҉

  Oh well, never mind.

    cheers,
      DaveK




[*] - http://forums.worsethanfailure.com/forums/thread/128877.aspx
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

Re: The character '‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮҉'

[Matthew Woehlke]

Dave Korn wrote:
>   Maybe if I try again, in UTF-8 encoding this time.  Meanwhile just for new content, I hear that corrupt perjurer Gonzales has just resigned.  Hooray.
> 
>   I just read about it on tdwtf[*], so I wondered if it would work here too.
> 
>    So then:  ‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮҉
> 
> .retcarahc taht retfa sdrawkcab enog evah dluohs gnihtyreveE  .gnikrow s'ti kniht t'nod I ,epoN  
> 
> ‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮҉
> 
>   Oh well, never mind.

Firefox, on Windows, does indeed render the middle text in 
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.os.cygwin.talk/3877 (link to the post I 
am replying to) in "correct" direction. So it *does* work (yes, UTF8 is 
required).

Thunderbird on Linux is unaffected.

-- 
Matthew
Microsoft: driving people fscking insane...

RE: The character '‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮҉'

[Dave Korn]

On 27 August 2007 16:53, Matthew Woehlke wrote:

> Dave Korn wrote:
>>   Maybe if I try again, in UTF-8 encoding this time.  Meanwhile just for new
>> content, I hear that corrupt perjurer Gonzales has just resigned.  Hooray. 
>> 
>>   I just read about it on tdwtf[*], so I wondered if it would work here too.
>> 
>>    So then:  ‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮҉
>> 
>> .retcarahc taht retfa sdrawkcab enog evah dluohs gnihtyreveE  .gnikrow s'ti
>> kniht t'nod I ,epoN 
>> 
>> ‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮҉
>> 
>>   Oh well, never mind.
> 
> Firefox, on Windows, does indeed render the middle text in
> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.os.cygwin.talk/3877 (link to the post I
> am replying to) in "correct" direction. So it *does* work (yes, UTF8 is
> required).

  My FF doesn't show anything unusual at that page.  What version are you using?


    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

Re: The character '???????????'

[Matthew Woehlke]

Dave Korn wrote:
> On 27 August 2007 16:53, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
>> Firefox, on Windows, does indeed render the middle text in
>> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.os.cygwin.talk/3877 (link to the post I
>> am replying to) in "correct" direction. So it *does* work (yes, UTF8 is
>> required).
> 
>   My FF doesn't show anything unusual at that page.  What version are you using?

2.0.0.6 on WinXP Pro SP2 (32-bit). Obviously, it works for some people 
under some circumstances. (Or is it working in my Thunderbird (2.0.0.6 
on RHAS4) and not my Firefox? In FF the middle text is normal LTR. In 
TB, it's "backwards", RTL. Knowing you, I'm not going to assume what 
direction you actually typed it, though :-).)

-- 
Matthew
Microsoft: driving people fscking insane...

RE: The character '???????????'

[Dave Korn]

On 27 August 2007 17:17, Matthew Woehlke wrote:

> Dave Korn wrote:
>> On 27 August 2007 16:53, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
>>> Firefox, on Windows, does indeed render the middle text in
>>> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.os.cygwin.talk/3877 (link to the post I
>>> am replying to) in "correct" direction. So it *does* work (yes, UTF8 is
>>> required).
>> 
>>   My FF doesn't show anything unusual at that page.  What version are you
>> using? 
> 
> 2.0.0.6 on WinXP Pro SP2 (32-bit). Obviously, it works for some people
> under some circumstances. (Or is it working in my Thunderbird (2.0.0.6
> on RHAS4) and not my Firefox? In FF the middle text is normal LTR. In
> TB, it's "backwards", RTL. Knowing you, I'm not going to assume what
> direction you actually typed it, though :-).)


  Well, don't ask me any questions, ..... I *might* not tell you any lies ... 



    Or I might.  Never know!

    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

Re: The character '‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮҉'

[Danilo Turina]

Dave Korn wrote:
> 
>   Maybe if I try again, in UTF-8 encoding this time.  Meanwhile just for new content, I hear that corrupt perjurer Gonzales has just resigned.  Hooray.
> 
> 
>   I just read about it on tdwtf[*], so I wondered if it would work here too.
> 
>    So then:  ‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮҉
> 
> .retcarahc taht retfa sdrawkcab enog evah dluohs gnihtyreveE  .gnikrow s'ti kniht t'nod I ,epoN  
> 
> ‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮҉
> 
>   Oh well, never mind.
> 
>     cheers,
>       DaveK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [*] - http://forums.worsethanfailure.com/forums/thread/128877.aspx
It works!!!!I thought you were joking!!!!
Wonderful!!!!

Ciao,

Danilo

Re: RE: The character '‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮҉'

[Igor Peshansky]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 1802 bytes --]

On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Dave Korn wrote:

> On 27 August 2007 16:53, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
>
> > Dave Korn wrote:
> >>   Maybe if I try again, in UTF-8 encoding this time.  Meanwhile just for new
> >> content, I hear that corrupt perjurer Gonzales has just resigned.  Hooray.
> >>
> >>   I just read about it on tdwtf[*], so I wondered if it would work here too.
> >>
> >>    So then:  âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®Òÿÿ
> >>
> >> .retcarahc taht retfa sdrawkcab enog evah dluohs gnihtyreveE  .gnikrow s'ti
> >> kniht t'nod I ,epoN
> >>
> >> âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®Òÿÿ
> >>
> >>   Oh well, never mind.
> >
> > Firefox, on Windows, does indeed render the middle text in
> > http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.os.cygwin.talk/3877 (link to the post I
> > am replying to) in "correct" direction. So it *does* work (yes, UTF8 is
> > required).
>
>   My FF doesn't show anything unusual at that page.  What version are you using?

You need UTF-8 encoding (View->Character Encoding->Unicode (UTF-8)).

OTOH, the Cygwin list web archives seem to be doing some encoding
translation of their own, as that character looks like a sequence of "a"s
with circumflexes.
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

Belief can be manipulated.  Only knowledge is dangerous.  -- Frank Herbert

RE: The character '???????????'

[Dave Korn]

On 27 August 2007 17:17, Matthew Woehlke wrote:

> Dave Korn wrote:
>> On 27 August 2007 16:53, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
>>> Firefox, on Windows, does indeed render the middle text in
>>> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.os.cygwin.talk/3877 (link to the post I
>>> am replying to) in "correct" direction. So it *does* work (yes, UTF8 is
>>> required).
>> 
>>   My FF doesn't show anything unusual at that page.  What version are you
>> using? 
> 
> 2.0.0.6 on WinXP Pro SP2 (32-bit). Obviously, it works for some people
> under some circumstances. (Or is it working in my Thunderbird (2.0.0.6
> on RHAS4) and not my Firefox? In FF the middle text is normal LTR. In
> TB, it's "backwards", RTL. Knowing you, I'm not going to assume what
> direction you actually typed it, though :-).)

(-: tseb eht rof lla ylbaborp s'tahT  


    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

RE: RE: The character '‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮҉'

[Dave Korn]

On 28 August 2007 14:24, Igor Peshansky wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Dave Korn wrote:
> 
>> On 27 August 2007 16:53, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
>> 
>>> Dave Korn wrote:
>>>>   Maybe if I try again, in UTF-8 encoding this time.  Meanwhile just for new
>>>> content, I hear that corrupt perjurer Gonzales has just resigned.  Hooray.
>>>> 
>>>>   I just read about it on tdwtf[*], so I wondered if it would work here too.
>>>> 
>>>>    So then: 
>>>> âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®Òÿÿ
>>>> 
>>>> .retcarahc taht retfa sdrawkcab enog evah dluohs gnihtyreveE  .gnikrow s'ti
>>>> kniht t'nod I ,epoN
>>>> 
>>>> âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®Òÿÿ
>>>> 
>>>>   Oh well, never mind.
>>> 
>>> Firefox, on Windows, does indeed render the middle text in
>>> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.os.cygwin.talk/3877 (link to the post I
>>> am replying to) in "correct" direction. So it *does* work (yes, UTF8 is
>>> required).
>> 
>>   My FF doesn't show anything unusual at that page.  What version are you
>> using? 
> 
> You need UTF-8 encoding (View->Character Encoding->Unicode (UTF-8)).

  It picked that automatically anyway.  No, it's because I've tried a 1.0.x and a 1.5.x series FF and Matthew's got 2.x

 
> OTOH, the Cygwin list web archives seem to be doing some encoding
> translation of their own, as that character looks like a sequence of "a"s
> with circumflexes.

  Every time we quote it in a reply, it gets more and more mangled.  I can hardly wait to see what it does next.  (Now setting encoding of this mail to UTF-7 for extra mungetastic fun!)


    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

Re: RE: RE: The character '‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮҉'

[Igor Peshansky]

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, Dave Korn wrote:

> On 28 August 2007 14:24, Igor Peshansky wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Dave Korn wrote:
> >
> >> On 27 August 2007 16:53, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dave Korn wrote:
> >>>>   Maybe if I try again, in UTF-8 encoding this time.  Meanwhile just for new
> >>>> content, I hear that corrupt perjurer Gonzales has just resigned.  Hooray.
> >>>>
> >>>>   I just read about it on tdwtf[*], so I wondered if it would work here too.
> >>>>
> >>>>    So then:
> >>>> âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®Òÿÿ
> >>>>
> >>>> .retcarahc taht retfa sdrawkcab enog evah dluohs gnihtyreveE  .gnikrow s'ti
> >>>> kniht t'nod I ,epoN
> >>>>
> >>>> âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ®Òÿÿ
> >>>>
> >>>>   Oh well, never mind.
> >>>
> >>> Firefox, on Windows, does indeed render the middle text in
> >>> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.os.cygwin.talk/3877 (link to the post I
> >>> am replying to) in "correct" direction. So it *does* work (yes, UTF8 is
> >>> required).
> >>
> >>   My FF doesn't show anything unusual at that page.  What version are you
> >> using?
> >
> > You need UTF-8 encoding (View->Character Encoding->Unicode (UTF-8)).
>
>   It picked that automatically anyway.  No, it's because I've tried a 1.0.x and a 1.5.x series FF and Matthew's got 2.x

Yes, I used 2.x too.

> > OTOH, the Cygwin list web archives seem to be doing some encoding
> > translation of their own, as that character looks like a sequence of "a"s
> > with circumflexes.
>
>   Every time we quote it in a reply, it gets more and more mangled.  I
> can hardly wait to see what it does next.  (Now setting encoding of this
> mail to UTF-7 for extra mungetastic fun!)

Ok, I'll bite.  BTW, "!" seems to indicate a colon... :-)  Oh, what
wonders...
	Igor
P.S. We're also accumulating "RE"s...
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

Belief can be manipulated.  Only knowledge is dangerous.  -- Frank Herbert

RE: RE: RE: The character '҉'

[Dave Korn]

On 28 August 2007 21:56, Morgan  ‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮҉ Gangwere  ‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮҉ wrote:

> On 8/28/07, Igor Peshansky <pechtcha@҉҉҉҉҉҉҉҉҉> wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, Dave Korn wrote:
>> 
>>> On 28 August 2007 14:24, Igor Peshansky wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Dave Korn wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 27 August 2007 16:53, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dave Korn wrote:
>>>>>>>   Maybe if I try again, in UTF-8 encoding this time.  Meanwhile just for
>>>>>>> new content, I hear that corrupt perjurer Gonzales has just resigned. 
>>>>>>> Hooray. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>   I just read about it on tdwtf[*], so I wondered if it would work here
>>>>>>> too. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    So then:
>>>>>>> âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ(r)âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ(r)âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ(r)âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ(r)Òÿÿ
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> .retcarahc taht retfa sdrawkcab enog evah dluohs gnihtyreveE  .gnikrow
>>>>>>> s'ti kniht t'nod I ,epoN 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ(r)âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ(r)âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ(r)âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ(r)Òÿÿ
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>   Oh well, never mind.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Firefox, on Windows, does indeed render the middle text in
>>>>>> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.os.cygwin.talk/3877 (link to the post I
>>>>>> am replying to) in "correct" direction. So it *does* work (yes, UTF8 is
>>>>>> required).
>>>>> 
>>>>>   My FF doesn't show anything unusual at that page.  What version are you
>>>>> using?
>>>> 
>>>> You need UTF-8 encoding (View->Character Encoding->Unicode (UTF-8)).
>>> 
>>>   It picked that automatically anyway.  No, it's because I've tried a 1.0.x
>>> and a 1.5.x series FF and Matthew's got 2.x 
>> 
>> Yes, I used 2.x too.
>> 
>>>> OTOH, the Cygwin list web archives seem to be doing some encoding
>>>> translation of their own, as that character looks like a sequence of "a"s
>>>> with circumflexes.
>>> 
>>>   Every time we quote it in a reply, it gets more and more mangled.  I
>>> can hardly wait to see what it does next.  (Now setting encoding of this
>>> mail to UTF-7 for extra mungetastic fun!)
>> 
>> Ok, I'll bite.  BTW, "!" seems to indicate a colon... :-)  Oh, what wonders...
>>         Igor
>> P.S. We're also accumulating "RE"s...
>> --
>>                                 http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
>>       |\      _,,,---,,_            pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
>> ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_            Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
>>      |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'           old name: Igor Pechtchanski
>>     '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL     a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!
>> 
>> Belief can be manipulated.  Only knowledge is dangerous.  -- Frank Herbert
>> ҉
> ҉
> i guess we should add the header "text-encoding:UTF-8" to all messages... ҉
> because it would be really helpful. ҉
> ҉
> ҉
> Daggit. now windows is confused҉

҉҉҉Then it's a lot like ҉me҉, isn't it?҉
 ‪‫‬‭‮‪‫‬‭‮҉
    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

Re: RE: RE: The character '҉'

[Morgan Gangwere]

On 8/28/07, Igor Peshansky <pechtcha@҉҉҉҉҉҉҉҉҉> wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, Dave Korn wrote:
>
> > On 28 August 2007 14:24, Igor Peshansky wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Dave Korn wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 27 August 2007 16:53, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Dave Korn wrote:
> > >>>>   Maybe if I try again, in UTF-8 encoding this time.  Meanwhile just for new
> > >>>> content, I hear that corrupt perjurer Gonzales has just resigned.  Hooray.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>   I just read about it on tdwtf[*], so I wondered if it would work here too.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>    So then:
> > >>>> âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ(r)âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ(r)âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ(r)âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ(r)Òÿÿ
> > >>>>
> > >>>> .retcarahc taht retfa sdrawkcab enog evah dluohs gnihtyreveE  .gnikrow s'ti
> > >>>> kniht t'nod I ,epoN
> > >>>>
> > >>>> âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ(r)âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ(r)âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ(r)âÿÿªâÿÿ«âÿÿ¬âÿÿ­âÿÿ(r)Òÿÿ
> > >>>>
> > >>>>   Oh well, never mind.
> > >>>
> > >>> Firefox, on Windows, does indeed render the middle text in
> > >>> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.os.cygwin.talk/3877 (link to the post I
> > >>> am replying to) in "correct" direction. So it *does* work (yes, UTF8 is
> > >>> required).
> > >>
> > >>   My FF doesn't show anything unusual at that page.  What version are you
> > >> using?
> > >
> > > You need UTF-8 encoding (View->Character Encoding->Unicode (UTF-8)).
> >
> >   It picked that automatically anyway.  No, it's because I've tried a 1.0.x and a 1.5.x series FF and Matthew's got 2.x
>
> Yes, I used 2.x too.
>
> > > OTOH, the Cygwin list web archives seem to be doing some encoding
> > > translation of their own, as that character looks like a sequence of "a"s
> > > with circumflexes.
> >
> >   Every time we quote it in a reply, it gets more and more mangled.  I
> > can hardly wait to see what it does next.  (Now setting encoding of this
> > mail to UTF-7 for extra mungetastic fun!)
>
> Ok, I'll bite.  BTW, "!" seems to indicate a colon... :-)  Oh, what
> wonders...
>         Igor
> P.S. We're also accumulating "RE"s...
> --
>                                 http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
>       |\      _,,,---,,_            pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
> ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_            Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
>      |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'           old name: Igor Pechtchanski
>     '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL     a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!
>
> Belief can be manipulated.  Only knowledge is dangerous.  -- Frank Herbert
> ҉
҉
i guess we should add the header "text-encoding:UTF-8" to all messages... ҉
because it would be really helpful. ҉
҉
҉
Daggit. now windows is confused҉
-- 
Morgan gangwere

"Space does not reflect society, it expresses it." -- Castells, M.,
Space of Flows, Space of Places: Materials for a Theory of Urbanism in
the Information Age, in The Cybercities Reader, S. Graham, Editor.
2004, Routledge: London. p. 82-93.
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