RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Williams, Gerald S (Jerry)]

Christopher Faylor wrote:
> ...Of course, they don't really come alive because they are built out
> of unfeeling wires, relays, and vacuum tubes.

Don't forget the stone knives and bearskins.

gsw

RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> From: Behalf Of Williams, 
> Gerald S (Jerry)
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:45 AM
> To: cygwin-talk@cygwin.com
> Subject: RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1
> 
> Christopher Faylor wrote:
> > ...Of course, they don't really come alive because they are 
> built out 
> > of unfeeling wires, relays, and vacuum tubes.
> 
> Don't forget the stone knives and bearskins.
> 
> gsw
> 

MURDERERS!  KILLERS!  ASSASSINS!...

YOU!  WHAT PLANET IS THIS?!

-- 
Gary R. Van Sickle
 

RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Dave Korn]

Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
>> From: Behalf Of Williams,
>> Gerald S (Jerry)
>> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:45 AM
>> To: cygwin-talk@cygwin.com
>> Subject: RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1
>> 
>> Christopher Faylor wrote:
>>> ...Of course, they don't really come alive because they are built out
>>> of unfeeling wires, relays, and vacuum tubes.
>> 
>> Don't forget the stone knives and bearskins.
>> 
>> gsw
>> 
> 
> MURDERERS!  KILLERS!  ASSASSINS!...
> 
> YOU!  WHAT PLANET IS THIS?!


  I dunno, but there's this head of a giant statue buried up to its neck in
the sand a couple of miles further up this beach.....




  And I'm sure I saw a hippo riding a horse and carrying a gun.

    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Dave Korn]

Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:

[  Take two.  Sometimes there's more than one snappy comeback.  ]

>> From: Behalf Of Williams,
>> Gerald S (Jerry)
>> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:45 AM
>> To: cygwin-talk@cygwin.com
>> Subject: RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1
>> 
>> Christopher Faylor wrote:
>>> ...Of course, they don't really come alive because they are built out
>>> of unfeeling wires, relays, and vacuum tubes.
>> 
>> Don't forget the stone knives and bearskins.
>> 
>> gsw
>> 
> 
> MURDERERS!  KILLERS!  ASSASSINS!...
> 
> YOU!  WHAT PLANET IS THIS?!


  This is Illyria, lady.


<g>

    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Igor Peshansky]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006, Dave Korn wrote:

> Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
> >> From: Behalf Of Williams,
> >> Gerald S (Jerry)
> >> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:45 AM
> >> To: cygwin-talk@cygwin.com
> >> Subject: RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1
> >>
> >> Christopher Faylor wrote:
> >>> ...Of course, they don't really come alive because they are built out
> >>> of unfeeling wires, relays, and vacuum tubes.
> >>
> >> Don't forget the stone knives and bearskins.
> >>
> >> gsw
> >
> > MURDERERS!  KILLERS!  ASSASSINS!...
> >
> > YOU!  WHAT PLANET IS THIS?!
>
>
>   I dunno, but there's this head of a giant statue buried up to its neck in
> the sand a couple of miles further up this beach.....
>
>   And I'm sure I saw a hippo riding a horse and carrying a gun.

It was riding an elephant, and carrying a cannon, actually.  Hippos do so
alter your sense of scale...

I imagine falling in love with a hippo would be much harder than with an
ape, though...  Poor protagonist.
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Las! je suis sot... -Mais non, tu ne l'es pas, puisque tu t'en rends compte."
"But no -- you are no fool; you call yourself a fool, there's proof enough in
that!" -- Rostand, "Cyrano de Bergerac"

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Brian Dessent]

Dave Korn wrote:

>   I dunno, but there's this head of a giant statue buried up to its neck in
> the sand a couple of miles further up this beach.....
> 
>   And I'm sure I saw a hippo riding a horse and carrying a gun.

YOU MANIACS!!!   YOU BLEW IT UP!!!!   AHHH DAMN YOU!!!

*beats the sand*

RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Dave Korn]

Brian Dessent wrote:
> Dave Korn wrote:
> 
>>   I dunno, but there's this head of a giant statue buried up to its neck
>> in the sand a couple of miles further up this beach.....
>> 
>>   And I'm sure I saw a hippo riding a horse and carrying a gun.
> 
> YOU MANIACS!!!   YOU BLEW IT UP!!!!   


  PTC!!!!  <thumps sand>


    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Igor Peshansky]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006, Dave Korn wrote:

> Brian Dessent wrote:
> > Dave Korn wrote:
> >
> >>   I dunno, but there's this head of a giant statue buried up to its neck
> >> in the sand a couple of miles further up this beach.....
> >>
> >>   And I'm sure I saw a hippo riding a horse and carrying a gun.
> >
> > YOU MANIACS!!!   YOU BLEW IT UP!!!!
>
>   PTC!!!!  <thumps sand>

...and with a sinking heart notices the sign of an approaching sandworm.
Thus do people learn to not thump sand on Arrakis.
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Las! je suis sot... -Mais non, tu ne l'es pas, puisque tu t'en rends compte."
"But no -- you are no fool; you call yourself a fool, there's proof enough in
that!" -- Rostand, "Cyrano de Bergerac"

RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Dave Korn]

Igor Peshansky wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jan 2006, Dave Korn wrote:
> 
>> Brian Dessent wrote:
>>> Dave Korn wrote:
>>> 
>>>>   I dunno, but there's this head of a giant statue buried up to its
>>>> neck in the sand a couple of miles further up this beach.....
>>>> 
>>>>   And I'm sure I saw a hippo riding a horse and carrying a gun.
>>> 
>>> YOU MANIACS!!!   YOU BLEW IT UP!!!!
>> 
>>   PTC!!!!  <thumps sand>
> 
> ...and with a sinking heart notices the sign of an approaching sandworm.
> Thus do people learn to not thump sand on Arrakis.
> 	Igor


 ... I _thought_ that giant head bore an uncanny resemblance to Sting, but I
didn't like to say anything at the time ...


    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Jan 19 17:16, Dave Korn wrote:
> Igor Peshansky wrote:
> > On Thu, 19 Jan 2006, Dave Korn wrote:
> > 
> >> Brian Dessent wrote:
> >>> Dave Korn wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>>   I dunno, but there's this head of a giant statue buried up to its
> >>>> neck in the sand a couple of miles further up this beach.....
> >>>> 
> >>>>   And I'm sure I saw a hippo riding a horse and carrying a gun.
> >>> 
> >>> YOU MANIACS!!!   YOU BLEW IT UP!!!!
> >> 
> >>   PTC!!!!  <thumps sand>
> > 
> > ...and with a sinking heart notices the sign of an approaching sandworm.
> > Thus do people learn to not thump sand on Arrakis.
> > 	Igor
> 
> 
>  ... I _thought_ that giant head bore an uncanny resemblance to Sting, but I
> didn't like to say anything at the time ...

Nope, sorry, the giant head is of course ZARDOZ!


Corinna

RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Dave Korn]

Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> On Jan 19 17:16, Dave Korn wrote:
>> Igor Peshansky wrote:
>>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2006, Dave Korn wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Brian Dessent wrote:
>>>>> Dave Korn wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>   I dunno, but there's this head of a giant statue buried up to its
>>>>>> neck in the sand a couple of miles further up this beach.....
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   And I'm sure I saw a hippo riding a horse and carrying a gun.
>>>>> 
>>>>> YOU MANIACS!!!   YOU BLEW IT UP!!!!
>>>> 
>>>>   PTC!!!!  <thumps sand>
>>> 
>>> ...and with a sinking heart notices the sign of an approaching sandworm.
>>> Thus do people learn to not thump sand on Arrakis.
>>> 	Igor
>> 
>> 
>>  ... I _thought_ that giant head bore an uncanny resemblance to Sting,
>> but I didn't like to say anything at the time ...
> 
> Nope, sorry, the giant head is of course ZARDOZ!
> 

  Yeh?  Where in hell did it find a razor big enough to shave all that
face-fungus off with?


    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Igor Peshansky]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006, Martin Slack wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Igor Peshansky" <part man at part hippo>

:-)  The question is: which part? :-)

> To: "The Cygwin-Talk Maiming List" Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 2:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1
>
> > On Thu, 19 Jan 2006, Eric Blake wrote:
> >
> > > According to Igor Peshansky on 1/18/2006 8:19 AM:
> > > >
> > > > Umm, yeah.  Looks like either the manpage needs to be updated (or my
> > > > ingrained Unix reflex to go to the manpage instead of the info file is
> > > > badly out of date).  If only we had a better info reader...
> > >
> > > excerpts from 'man find' on 4.3.0-1
> >
> > $ man -W find | xargs cygcheck -f
> > findutils-4.2.25-2
> >
> > Ouch!
> >
> > > (ouch - how do you make man reformat a listing to 70 columns, so that I
> > > can then paste it into my email without ugly wrapping? I tried
> > > COLUMNS=70 man find, but to no avail):
>
> export MANWIDTH=70

D'oh!  That's it -- thanks!

Of course, it only really works for widths that are multiples of 20 (e.g.,
70 would be rounded up to 80, but 60 will work).
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Las! je suis sot... -Mais non, tu ne l'es pas, puisque tu t'en rends compte."
"But no -- you are no fool; you call yourself a fool, there's proof enough in
that!" -- Rostand, "Cyrano de Bergerac"

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Martin Slack]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Igor Peshansky" <part man at part hippo>
To: "The Cygwin-Talk Maiming List" 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1


> On Thu, 19 Jan 2006, Eric Blake wrote:
> 
>> According to Igor Peshansky on 1/18/2006 8:19 AM:
>> >
>> > Umm, yeah.  Looks like either the manpage needs to be updated (or my
>> > ingrained Unix reflex to go to the manpage instead of the info file is
>> > badly out of date).  If only we had a better info reader...
>>
>> excerpts from 'man find' on 4.3.0-1
> 
> $ man -W find | xargs cygcheck -f
> findutils-4.2.25-2
> 
> Ouch!
> 
>> (ouch - how do you make man reformat a listing to 70 columns, so that I
>> can then paste it into my email without ugly wrapping? I tried
>> COLUMNS=70 man find, but to no avail):
> 

export MANWIDTH=70

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Igor Peshansky]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006, Eric Blake wrote:

> According to Igor Peshansky on 1/18/2006 8:19 AM:
> >
> > Umm, yeah.  Looks like either the manpage needs to be updated (or my
> > ingrained Unix reflex to go to the manpage instead of the info file is
> > badly out of date).  If only we had a better info reader...
>
> excerpts from 'man find' on 4.3.0-1

$ man -W find | xargs cygcheck -f
findutils-4.2.25-2

Ouch!

> (ouch - how do you make man reformat a listing to 70 columns, so that I
> can then paste it into my email without ugly wrapping? I tried
> COLUMNS=70 man find, but to no avail):

I used to be able to do this, but spent about 5 minutes trying to recall
how, and failed.  I know there is a way, though.  OTOH, you could simply
resize your rxvt or xterm window...  But I don't think it works for all
sizes anyway...

> [snip]
> > Right.  I didn't mean "fully reuse the parsing code" -- more like factor
> > out the parsing of the parts I mentioned, and use it from both -access and
> > -perm...  But he's the maintainer, so it's his call anyway.  I'll post
> > something (hopefully a patch) to that bug report a bit later, I guess.
>
> Well, the parsing code comes from gnulib (it is also used by chmod, for
> example), and was not really designed to be split out.

I see.  Well, there goes that idea.

> > Well, technically, hippos don't fall -- they get dropped...
> > Who-o-o-osh...  *SPLAT*!
>
> Or jump...

That's one mighty depressed hippo.  This is the second time someone
proposed that hippos jump...  I can just imagine a hippo mother scolding
her child: "...And if everyone went and jumped off the bridge, would you
do that too?"
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Las! je suis sot... -Mais non, tu ne l'es pas, puisque tu t'en rends compte."
"But no -- you are no fool; you call yourself a fool, there's proof enough in
that!" -- Rostand, "Cyrano de Bergerac"

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Eric Blake]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

According to Igor Peshansky on 1/18/2006 8:19 AM:
> 
> Umm, yeah.  Looks like either the manpage needs to be updated (or my
> ingrained Unix reflex to go to the manpage instead of the info file is
> badly out of date).  If only we had a better info reader...

excerpts from 'man find' on 4.3.0-1 (ouch - how do you make man reformat a
listing to 70 columns, so that I can then paste it into my email without
ugly wrapping? I tried COLUMNS=70 man find, but to no avail):

       -readable, -writable, -executable
              Matches  files  which  are  readable,  writable  and executable,
              respectively.  This takes into account access control lists  and
              other  permissions artefacts which the -perm test ignores.  This
              test makes use of the access(2)  system  call,  and  so  can  be
              fooled  by NFS servers which do UID mapping (or root-squashing),
              since many systems implement access(2) in  the  client's  kernel
              and  so  cannot  make use of the UID mapping information held on
              the server.


       -perm /mode
              Any of the permission bits mode are set for the file.   Symbolic
              modes  are  accepted in this form.  You must specify 'u', 'g' or
              'o' if you use a symbolic mode.  See the  EXAMPLES  section  for
              some  illustrative  examples.  If no permission bits in mode are
              set, this test currently matches no  files.   However,  it  will
              soon  be  changed to match any file (the idea is to be more con-
              sistent with the behaviour of perm -000).

       -perm +mode
              Deprecated, old way of searching for files with any of the  per-
              mission  bits  in mode set.  You should use -perm /mode instead.
              Trying to use the '+' syntax with symbolic modes will yield sur-
              prising  results.   For example, '+u+x' is a valid symbolic mode
              (equivalent to +u,+x, i.e. 0111) and will therefore not be eval-
              uated  as  -perm  +mode  but instead as the exact mode specifier
              -perm mode and so it matches files with exact  permissions  0111
              instead  of  files  with any execute bit set.  If you found this
              paragraph confusing, you're not alone - just  use  -perm  /mode.
              This  form  of  the  -perm  test is deprecated because the POSIX
              specification requires the interpretation of a  leading  '+'  as
              being  part  of a symbolic mode, and so we switched to using '/'
              instead.


> 
> Right.  I didn't mean "fully reuse the parsing code" -- more like factor
> out the parsing of the parts I mentioned, and use it from both -access and
> -perm...  But he's the maintainer, so it's his call anyway.  I'll post
> something (hopefully a patch) to that bug report a bit later, I guess.

Well, the parsing code comes from gnulib (it is also used by chmod, for
example), and was not really designed to be split out.

> 
> Well, technically, hippos don't fall -- they get dropped...
> Who-o-o-osh...  *SPLAT*!

Or jump...

- --
Life is short - so eat dessert first!

Eric Blake             ebb9@byu.net
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RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> From: Christopher Faylor
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 9:48 PM
> To: The Cygwin-Talk Meandering List
> Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1
> 
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 03:21:11AM +0000, REV KEVIN OLSON wrote:
> >unsubscribe please
> 
> Yeah, that's EXACTLY how it works, except you forgot that, 
> for this to work, you have to speak into your computer's 
> large microphone.  You
> say:
> 
> "Computer, unsubscribe me from the cygwin-talk mailing list."
> 
> The computer says "Computing..." and then a lot of lights 
> blink and there is a lot of clattering as the computer relays 
> work on your request (as you know, a typical computer can do 
> scores of operations per second).  Eventually a bell will 
> ring and the computer will spit out a thin stream of paper 
> indicating that it has carried out your commands.
> 
> That's the accepted way of unsubscribing from a mailing list. 
>  Your confusion is understandable since computers are really 
> dumb when you type things into them.  It's only when you 
> speak into a microphone that they really "come alive"...
> 
> ...Of course, they don't really come alive because they are 
> built out of unfeeling wires, relays, and vacuum tubes.
> 
> cgf

Vacuum tubes.  Pshht.  You kids today and your fads.

-- 
Gary R. Van Sickle
 

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Christopher Faylor]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 03:21:11AM +0000, REV KEVIN OLSON wrote:
>unsubscribe please

Yeah, that's EXACTLY how it works, except you forgot that, for this to
work, you have to speak into your computer's large microphone.  You
say:

"Computer, unsubscribe me from the cygwin-talk mailing list."

The computer says "Computing..." and then a lot of lights blink and
there is a lot of clattering as the computer relays work on your request
(as you know, a typical computer can do scores of operations per
second).  Eventually a bell will ring and the computer will spit out a
thin stream of paper indicating that it has carried out your commands.

That's the accepted way of unsubscribing from a mailing list.  Your
confusion is understandable since computers are really dumb when you
type things into them.  It's only when you speak into a microphone that
they really "come alive"...

...Of course, they don't really come alive because they are built out
of unfeeling wires, relays, and vacuum tubes.

cgf

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Eric Blake]

> unsubscribe please

What, and miss all the hippos?

Hey, have you ever noticed that EVERY message that comes from
a cygwin.com mailing list has a header named List-Unsubscribe,
which just happens to have the magic email address to write to?

This 'view full source' button is pretty fun!  Now if only I could
catch the hippo while he is in the act of munging my email,
because *I* certainly didn't send this message with a List-Unsubscribe
header.

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[REV KEVIN OLSON]

unsubscribe please


REV KEVIN OLSON


___________________________________________________________________
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RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Igor Peshansky]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006, Dave Korn wrote:

> Igor Peshansky wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 Jan 2006, Eric Blake wrote:
> >
> >>> Ok, thanks!  BTW, is /0444 also new?  Didn't it use to be +0444?
> >>
> >> Yes.  Actually, -perm +0444 still does the same as -perm /444,
> >> (as it is an extension to POSIX), but -perm +a+r does not
> >> behave like -perm /a+r (POSIX requires -perm +a+r to behave
> >> the same as -perm 444, not -perm /444).
> >>
> >> Or you could reread the manual:
> >
> > Umm, yeah.  Looks like either the manpage needs to be updated (or my
> > ingrained Unix reflex to go to the manpage instead of the info file is
> > badly out of date).  If only we had a better info reader...
>
>   Well, if you really reckon the manpage reader is so much better than the
> info reader that you'd usually rather read man pages, you can read an info
> file with that same manpage-retro-look-and-feel by ...
>
>    info <topic> | less

Nope -- no highlighting, no synopsis, no examples...  Ouch!

>  >> Shoot - did I just give a valid technical reply on the -talk list?  I
> >> just hope no hippos fall on me tonight!
> >
> > Well, technically, hippos don't fall -- they get dropped...
> > Who-o-o-osh...  *SPLAT*!
> > 	Igor
>
>   I'm starting to think some of them are jumping ...

Considering the amount of traffic they generate on this list, they'd
better... :-)
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Las! je suis sot... -Mais non, tu ne l'es pas, puisque tu t'en rends compte."
"But no -- you are no fool; you call yourself a fool, there's proof enough in
that!" -- Rostand, "Cyrano de Bergerac"

RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Dave Korn]

Igor Peshansky wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jan 2006, Eric Blake wrote:
> 
>>> Ok, thanks!  BTW, is /0444 also new?  Didn't it use to be +0444?
>> 
>> Yes.  Actually, -perm +0444 still does the same as -perm /444,
>> (as it is an extension to POSIX), but -perm +a+r does not
>> behave like -perm /a+r (POSIX requires -perm +a+r to behave
>> the same as -perm 444, not -perm /444).
>> 
>> Or you could reread the manual:
> 
> Umm, yeah.  Looks like either the manpage needs to be updated (or my
> ingrained Unix reflex to go to the manpage instead of the info file is
> badly out of date).  If only we had a better info reader...

  Well, if you really reckon the manpage reader is so much better than the
info reader that you'd usually rather read man pages, you can read an info
file with that same manpage-retro-look-and-feel by ...

   info <topic> | less

 >> Shoot - did I just give a valid technical reply on the -talk list?  I
>> just hope no hippos fall on me tonight!
> 
> Well, technically, hippos don't fall -- they get dropped...
> Who-o-o-osh...  *SPLAT*!
> 	Igor

  I'm starting to think some of them are jumping ... 


    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Igor Peshansky]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006, Eric Blake wrote:

> > Ok, thanks!  BTW, is /0444 also new?  Didn't it use to be +0444?
>
> Yes.  Actually, -perm +0444 still does the same as -perm /444,
> (as it is an extension to POSIX), but -perm +a+r does not
> behave like -perm /a+r (POSIX requires -perm +a+r to behave
> the same as -perm 444, not -perm /444).
>
> Or you could reread the manual:

Umm, yeah.  Looks like either the manpage needs to be updated (or my
ingrained Unix reflex to go to the manpage instead of the info file is
badly out of date).  If only we had a better info reader...

> $ grep -iC3 '/mode' /usr/share/doc/findutils*/NEWS
>
> I'd like to point out a second time that the interpretation of '-perm
> +mode' has changed to be more POSIX-compliant.
> [snip]
> Or even my release notes:
> http://sourceware.org/ml/cygwin-announce/2005-09/msg00002.html
> http://sourceware.org/ml/cygwin-announce/2005-12/msg00018.html

Heh, who reads those? ;-)

> And if you can't sleep at night, the long, lengthy explanation of the
> finer semantic points are in this bug report:
> https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?func=detailitem&item_id=14619

Thanks, I'll add it to my booklist. :-)

> > Interesting...  FWIW, I think having one -access test (and reusing the
> > code from -perm to parse +r/+w/+x/=r/=w/=x/-r/-w/-x) makes more sense...
>
> Why don't you propose it upstream?  The problem is the code for
> parsing symbolic permissions in -perm also parses stuff like
> sticky bits, and access() doesn't grant you visibility into that; also,
> it doesn't make sense to do -access g+r (when using access(), a
> file is either readable or it is not, without any bearing on user,
> group, or other, but accounting for ACLs; when using stat(), there
> really are 9 access bits to compare against, plus 3 extra bits, but
> with no ACL knowledge).  So I think James' choice of -readable,
> -writable, and -executable were probably the right way to do it.

Right.  I didn't mean "fully reuse the parsing code" -- more like factor
out the parsing of the parts I mentioned, and use it from both -access and
-perm...  But he's the maintainer, so it's his call anyway.  I'll post
something (hopefully a patch) to that bug report a bit later, I guess.

> Shoot - did I just give a valid technical reply on the -talk list?  I
> just hope no hippos fall on me tonight!

Well, technically, hippos don't fall -- they get dropped...
Who-o-o-osh...  *SPLAT*!
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Las! je suis sot... -Mais non, tu ne l'es pas, puisque tu t'en rends compte."
"But no -- you are no fool; you call yourself a fool, there's proof enough in
that!" -- Rostand, "Cyrano de Bergerac"

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Eric Blake]

> 
> Ok, thanks!  BTW, is /0444 also new?  Didn't it use to be +0444?

Yes.  Actually, -perm +0444 still does the same as -perm /444,
(as it is an extension to POSIX), but -perm +a+r does not
behave like -perm /a+r (POSIX requires -perm +a+r to behave
the same as -perm 444, not -perm /444).

Or you could reread the manual:

$ grep -iC3 '/mode' /usr/share/doc/findutils*/NEWS

I'd like to point out a second time that the interpretation of '-perm
+mode' has changed to be more POSIX-compliant.  If you want the old
behaviour of the GNU extension you should use '-perm /mode'.  See the
NEWS entry for findutils version 4.2.21 for details.

** Functional Changes
--

The GNU extension "find ... -perm +MODE" has been withdrawn because it
is incompatible with POSIX in obscure cases like "find ... -perm ++r".
Use the new syntax "find ... -perm /MODE" instead.  Old usages will
still continue to work, so long as they don't conflict with POSIX.


Or even my release notes:
http://sourceware.org/ml/cygwin-announce/2005-09/msg00002.html
http://sourceware.org/ml/cygwin-announce/2005-12/msg00018.html

And if you can't sleep at night, the long, lengthy explanation of the
finer semantic points are in this bug report:
https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?func=detailitem&item_id=14619

> 
> Interesting...  FWIW, I think having one -access test (and reusing the
> code from -perm to parse +r/+w/+x/=r/=w/=x/-r/-w/-x) makes more sense...

Why don't you propose it upstream?  The problem is the code for
parsing symbolic permissions in -perm also parses stuff like
sticky bits, and access() doesn't grant you visibility into that; also,
it doesn't make sense to do -access g+r (when using access(), a
file is either readable or it is not, without any bearing on user,
group, or other, but accounting for ACLs; when using stat(), there
really are 9 access bits to compare against, plus 3 extra bits, but
with no ACL knowledge).  So I think James' choice of -readable,
-writable, and -executable were probably the right way to do it.

Shoot - did I just give a valid technical reply on the -talk list?  I just
hope no hippos fall on me tonight!

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Igor Peshansky]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006, Eric Blake wrote:

> According to Igor Peshansky on 1/18/2006 7:17 AM:
> > I fully expect a couple of hippos in this thread as well, but
> > nonetheless...
>
> What's that noise behind me?  And why are there footprints in my butter?

Heh, I thought hippos only sat on spammers...

> >>** Functional Changes
> >>New tests, -readable, -writable, -executable.  These check that a file
> >>can be read, written or executed respectively.
> >
> > Can someone explain to me how these are different from "-perm -0400",
> > "-perm -0200", and "-perm -0100" respectively?  Do they use access()?
>
> Yes.  Due to ACLs, it is possible for -readable to return true (it uses
> access()) and -perm /0444 to return false (it uses stat()).  Also, note
> that -perm /0444 is different than -perm -0444 (/0444 is any of the three
> read bits set, regardless of all other bits, where -0444 is all three read
> bits set.  Thus, a file can be readable, have no ACLs, and pass -perm
> /0444 while failing -perm -0444).

Ok, thanks!  BTW, is /0444 also new?  Didn't it use to be +0444?

> By the way, James added these new options at my request, although he
> chose a different name for the predicate than my original proposal:
> https://savannah.gnu.org/support/index.php?func=detailitem&item_id=104720

Interesting...  FWIW, I think having one -access test (and reusing the
code from -perm to parse +r/+w/+x/=r/=w/=x/-r/-w/-x) makes more sense...
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Las! je suis sot... -Mais non, tu ne l'es pas, puisque tu t'en rends compte."
"But no -- you are no fool; you call yourself a fool, there's proof enough in
that!" -- Rostand, "Cyrano de Bergerac"

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Eric Blake]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

According to Igor Peshansky on 1/18/2006 7:17 AM:
> I fully expect a couple of hippos in this thread as well, but
> nonetheless...

What's that noise behind me?  And why are there footprints in my butter?

>>** Functional Changes
>>New tests, -readable, -writable, -executable.  These check that a file
>>can be read, written or executed respectively.
> 
> 
> Can someone explain to me how these are different from "-perm -0400",
> "-perm -0200", and "-perm -0100" respectively?  Do they use access()?

Yes.  Due to ACLs, it is possible for -readable to return true (it uses
access()) and -perm /0444 to return false (it uses stat()).  Also, note
that -perm /0444 is different than -perm -0444 (/0444 is any of the three
read bits set, regardless of all other bits, where -0444 is all three read
bits set.  Thus, a file can be readable, have no ACLs, and pass -perm
/0444 while failing -perm -0444).

By the way, James added these new options at my request, although he chose
a different name for the predicate than my original proposal:
https://savannah.gnu.org/support/index.php?func=detailitem&item_id=104720

- --
Life is short - so eat dessert first!

Eric Blake             ebb9@byu.net
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Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Updated [experimental]: findutils-4.3.0-1

[Igor Peshansky]

I fully expect a couple of hippos in this thread as well, but
nonetheless...

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006, Eric Blake wrote:

> A new release of findutils, 4.3.0-1, is available for experimental use.
> [snip]
> Upstream news since 4.2.27 is attached.
> [snip]
> ** Functional Changes
> New tests, -readable, -writable, -executable.  These check that a file
> can be read, written or executed respectively.

Can someone explain to me how these are different from "-perm -0400",
"-perm -0200", and "-perm -0100" respectively?  Do they use access()?
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Las! je suis sot... -Mais non, tu ne l'es pas, puisque tu t'en rends compte."
"But no -- you are no fool; you call yourself a fool, there's proof enough in
that!" -- Rostand, "Cyrano de Bergerac"