From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 574 invoked by alias); 8 Aug 2011 23:17:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 560 invoked by uid 22791); 8 Aug 2011 23:17:57 -0000 X-SWARE-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RP_MATCHES_RCVD,TW_XK X-Spam-Check-By: sourceware.org Received: from fmmailgate03.web.de (HELO fmmailgate03.web.de) (217.72.192.234) by sourceware.org (qpsmtpd/0.43rc1) with ESMTP; Mon, 08 Aug 2011 23:17:40 +0000 Received: from smtp06.web.de ( [172.20.5.172]) by fmmailgate03.web.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50966197694CC; Tue, 9 Aug 2011 01:17:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [84.150.140.48] (helo=lp21723) by smtp06.web.de with esmtp (WEB.DE 4.110 #2) id 1QqZ4l-0000uv-00; Tue, 09 Aug 2011 01:17:39 +0200 From: "Paul Maier" To: "'cygwin-xfree'" Cc: "'Jon TURNEY'" References: <006301cc4fb3$2696d060$73c47120$@de> <4E36BED6.3070102@dronecode.org.uk> <000001cc5085$6b711fb0$42535f10$@de> <4E3949E0.6090306@dronecode.org.uk> <000001cc524d$3b4db6d0$b1e92470$@de> <4E40016D.2080801@dronecode.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <4E40016D.2080801@dronecode.org.uk> Subject: AW: 'de' keyboard layout issues (Re: AW: AW: AltGr key mostly fires an additional CONTROL key) Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 23:17:00 -0000 Message-ID: <001c01cc5621$4ae653e0$e0b2fba0$@de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Sender: svn-user@web.de X-IsSubscribed: yes Mailing-List: contact cygwin-xfree-help@cygwin.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: cygwin-xfree-owner@cygwin.com Reply-To: cygwin-xfree@cygwin.com Mail-Followup-To: cygwin-xfree@cygwin.com X-SW-Source: 2011-08/txt/msg00022.txt.bz2 Hi Jon, 1. Tilde sign ------------- > > Tilde sign (~) should be a normal (not a blind) key. > > In Windows I hit AltGr+"+" to get ~, in XWin I need to type AltGr+"+= " then space to > get a ~. > > See attachment for the initial XWin xmodmap -pke table. > > Possible xmodmap correction (works fine): > > keycode 35 =3D plus asterisk plus asterisk asciitilde >=20 > This is a can of worms I don't want to open :-) >=20 > At the moment, in the 'de' layout, the tilde deadkey will add a macron > diacritic, e.g. AltGr + "+" + a =3D =E3. >=20 > I really lack the expertise to determine if this is a bug in xkeyboard-co= nfig > (if this german keyboard behavior is something no german keyboard user wo= uld > ever expect or want) >=20 > The xkb configurations we use come from the xkeyboard-config project, and > aren't trying to be identical to Windows, but to conform to the appropria= te > national standards and user expectations. >=20 > However, I can see in the case of XWin this is problematic, as it will be > confusing to switch between X and normal Windows windows which have diffe= rent > keyboard behavior. I did some research: German computer keyboard layout is defined in DIN 2137= -2. And to my surprise I found, that tilde is a dead key there. That means, that the xkeyboard-config project perfectly matches the DIN nor= m, while Windows (where the key is not dead) does not match it. So I understand, that you may want to stick to the DIN norm. A workaround for guys like me, who want the XWin keyboard work the same lik= e Windows, is possible with xmodmap, so yeah ... let's close this point. 2. Euro currency sign --------------------- > > Euro Currency sign doesn't work. > > I know - it's not a latin1 character, but together with CP1252 this = xmodmap > correction works like Windows: > > keycode 26 =3D e E e E 0x0080 >=20 > I guess this is another symptom of Xlib not understanding the de_DE.CP125= 2 locale. > This works fine in the de_DE.UTF-8 locale. I agree to concentrate on more important stuff. 3. Non breaking space (NBSP) on ALT+space ----------------------------------------- > > ALT+Space produces a NBSP character (HEX A0) in Windows, but not in XWi= n. > > xmodmap correction is unfortunately not possible, because the xmodma= p setting on > ISO_Level3_Shift+Space is just thrown away: > > Something like > > keycode 65 =3D space NoSymbol space NoSymbol nobreakspace > > or > > keycode 65 =3D space space space space nobreakspace > > doesn't work: it's discarded and the setting is not shown on a "xmod= map -pke". > > So I put nobreakspace to the fifth place of another key - there it w= orks. > > That would be good if key 65 (space key) would accept above xmodmap = setting or have > it initially. >=20 > Reading [1], this looks like an (undocumented) Windows-ism >=20 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-breaking_space#Keyboard_entry_methods I found out, that DIN 2137-2:2003-09 defines two different keyboard layouts= , the one having ALT+space undefinied (the common layout with an extra "<"/">" key left to the y key; = see page 27 of that DIN norm),=20 the other one defining ALT+space as NBSP (see page 9 of that DIN norm, tabl= e 2, line 1). So it's fine, that ALT+space is undefined by default. But it wouldn't harm = anybody, if ALT+space were xmodmap redefinable, so that those guys, who got used to usi= ng ALT+space in Windows, have a chance to xmodmap it themselves. And: for all other keys you can xmodmap what you like on ALT+key, so why no= t for ALT+space? I can easily xmodmap the NBSP onto another key, but if you try to do the sa= me with the space key, XWin doesn't take it: Try xmodmapping keycode 65 =3D space NoSymbol space NoSymbol nobreakspace or keycode 65 =3D space space space space nobreakspace then issue a "xmodmap -pke" ... and the NBSP is not on the space key. 4. Number block --------------- > I can't reproduce this problem. >=20 > I wonder if this is a problem with handling numpad overlaid onto normal k= eys > on a laptop keypad? Again, -logverbose 3 output together with xev output > would be helpful. That was referring to plugging an external (USB) keyboard to the Laptop. I got a new external keyboard recently. The number block was not working with my old external keyboard, but with the new one I can't reproduce the problem, with other words, it is working = there. Unfortunately I don't have the old keyboard any more, so I can't help you debugging this issue. Maybe somebody else calls. Regards, Paul -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/ FAQ: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/faq/