RE: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22

RE: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22

[tulitanssi]

Hi all,

keyboard repeat does not work anymore with this new update. I think it worked with the previous (4.3.0-21) release. Any ideas?

I'm using win2k.

Thanks,
Tuli


............................................................
Maksuton sähköposti aina käytössä http://luukku.com
Kuukausimaksuton MTV3 Internet-liittymä www.mtv3.fi/liittyma

Re: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22

[Harold L Hunt II]

Yeah, this release discards repeats that come from Windows.  It now 
relies on the Xinput layer to do the repeating.  Are you disabling 
Xinput?  I hope I have that terminology right... it might not be called 
Xinput.

Harold

tulitanssi@luukku.com wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> keyboard repeat does not work anymore with this new update. I think it worked with the previous (4.3.0-21) release. Any ideas?
> 
> I'm using win2k.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tuli
> 
> 
> ............................................................
> Maksuton sähköposti aina käytössä http://luukku.com
> Kuukausimaksuton MTV3 Internet-liittymä www.mtv3.fi/liittyma
> 

Re: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22

[Dr. Volker Zell]

>>>>> "Harold" == Harold L Hunt, <Harold> writes:

    Harold> Yeah, this release discards repeats that come from Windows.  It now
    Harold> relies on the Xinput layer to do the repeating.  Are you disabling
    Harold> Xinput?  I hope I have that terminology right... it might not be
    Harold> called Xinput.

I see the same, how can I reenable the repeats in the Xinput layer ?

    Harold> Harold

Ciao
  Volker

Re: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22

[Harold L Hunt II]

Are you using the -kb or -xkb parameters?  I don't remember what the 
name of the parameter is that disables the repeats, but the above seems 
close.

Harold

Dr. Volker Zell wrote:

>>>>>>"Harold" == Harold L Hunt, <Harold> writes:
> 
> 
>     Harold> Yeah, this release discards repeats that come from Windows.  It now
>     Harold> relies on the Xinput layer to do the repeating.  Are you disabling
>     Harold> Xinput?  I hope I have that terminology right... it might not be
>     Harold> called Xinput.
> 
> I see the same, how can I reenable the repeats in the Xinput layer ?
> 
>     Harold> Harold
> 
> Ciao
>   Volker
> 

Re: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22

[Dr. Volker Zell]

>>>>> "Harold" == Harold L Hunt, <Harold> writes:

    Harold> Are you using the -kb or -xkb parameters?  I don't remember what the
    Harold> name of the parameter is that disables the repeats, but the above
    Harold> seems close.

No, but I found the culprit. I once downloaded a XF86Config-4 file from the
net and placed it under /etc/X11
There was an entry

 Option "AutoRepeat" "500 20"

After changing it to "200 40" woooow, it works even better as before...

    Harold> Harold

Ciao
  Volker

Re: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22

[Dr. Volker Zell]

>>>>> "I" == Volker Zell <Dr.> writes:

>>>>> "Harold" == Harold L Hunt, <Harold> writes:
    Harold> Are you using the -kb or -xkb parameters?  I don't remember what the
    Harold> name of the parameter is that disables the repeats, but the above
    Harold> seems close.

    I> No, but I found the culprit. I once downloaded a XF86Config-4 file from the
    I> net and placed it under /etc/X11
    I> There was an entry

    I>  Option "AutoRepeat" "500 20"

    I> After changing it to "200 40" woooow, it works even better as before...


Actually I only tried setting AutoRepeat via

 xset r rate 200 40

and this works fine.

But when setting it in /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 it gets ignored for me.
Here are the relevant entries from XF86Config-4 and from /tmp/XWin.log.
Any hints ? is this supposed to work ?

>From XF86Config-4:

Section "InputDevice"

    Identifier	"Keyboard1"
    Driver	"Keyboard"

    Option 	"XkbRules"	"xfree86"
    Option 	"XkbModel"	"pc105"
    Option 	"XkbLayout"	"de"

    Option 	"AutoRepeat"	"200 40"

EndSection


and from XWin.log:

ddxProcessArgument - Initializing default screens
winInitializeDefaultScreens - w 1024 h 768
winInitializeDefaultScreens - Returning
OsVendorInit - Creating bogus screen 0
(==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/XF86Config-4"
Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting,
         (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational,
         (WW) warning, (EE) error, (??) unknown.
(**) FontPath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/local/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/:unscaled,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/:unscaled,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/,/usr/local/share/emacs/fonts/,/dev/c/WINNT/Fonts/,/usr/local/share/fonts/"
(**) RgbPath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb"
winDetectSupportedEngines - Windows NT/2000/XP
winDetectSupportedEngines - DirectDraw installed
winDetectSupportedEngines - Allowing PrimaryDD
winDetectSupportedEngines - DirectDraw4 installed
winDetectSupportedEngines - Returning, supported engines 0000001f
InitOutput - g_iNumScreens: 1 iMaxConsecutiveScreen: 1
winSetEngine - Using user's preference: 4
winAdjustVideoModeShadowDDNL - Using Windows display depth of 32 bits per pixel
winCreateBoundingWindowWindowed - User w: 1024 h: 768
winCreateBoundingWindowWindowed - Current w: 1024 h: 768
winAdjustForAutoHide - Original WorkArea: 0 0 768 1024
winAdjustForAutoHide - Taskbar is auto hide
winAdjustForAutoHide - Found BOTTOM auto-hide taskbar
winAdjustForAutoHide - Adjusted WorkArea: 0 0 767 1024
winCreateBoundingWindowWindowed - WindowClient w 1024 h 767 r 1024 l 0 b 767 t 0
winCreateBoundingWindowWindowed -  Returning
winCreatePrimarySurfaceShadowDDNL - Creating primary surface
winCreatePrimarySurfaceShadowDDNL - Created primary surface
winCreatePrimarySurfaceShadowDDNL - Attached clipper to primary surface
winAllocateFBShadowDDNL - lPitch: 4096
winAllocateFBShadowDDNL - Created shadow pitch: 4096
winAllocateFBShadowDDNL - Created shadow stride: 1024
winFinishScreenInitFB - Masks: 00ff0000 0000ff00 000000ff
winInitVisualsShadowDDNL - Masks 00ff0000 0000ff00 000000ff BPRGB 8 d 24 bpp 32
winCreateDefColormap - Deferring to fbCreateDefColormap ()
winFinishScreenInitFB - returning
winScreenInit - returning
InitOutput - Returning.
(==) winConfigKeyboard - Layout: "00000407" (00000407) 
(==) Using preset keyboard for "German (Germany)" (407), type "4"
(**) Using keyboard "Keyboard1" as primary keyboard
(**) Option "XkbRules" "xfree86"
(**) XKB: rules: "xfree86"
(**) Option "XkbModel" "pc105"
(**) XKB: model: "pc105"
(**) Option "XkbLayout" "de"
(**) XKB: layout: "de"
Rules = "xfree86" Model = "pc105" Layout = "de" Variant = "(null)" Options = "(null)"
winPointerWarpCursor - Discarding first warp: 512 383
winBlockHandler - Releasing pmServerStarted
winBlockHandler - pthread_mutex_unlock () returned

    I> Ciao
    I>   Volker

    Harold> Harold

Ciao
  Volker

Re: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22

[Alexander Gottwald]

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Dr. Volker Zell wrote:

> Actually I only tried setting AutoRepeat via
> 
>  xset r rate 200 40
> 
> and this works fine.
> 
> But when setting it in /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 it gets ignored for me.
> Here are the relevant entries from XF86Config-4 and from /tmp/XWin.log.
> Any hints ? is this supposed to work ?

No. The AutoRepeat option is not used yet. I'll change this.

bye
	ago
-- 
 Alexander.Gottwald@s1999.tu-chemnitz.de 
 http://www.gotti.org           ICQ: 126018723

Re: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22

[Alexander Gottwald]

Alexander Gottwald wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Dr. Volker Zell wrote:

> No. The AutoRepeat option is not used yet. I'll change this.

Done.
    ago

NP: L'Âme Immortelle - 21. Februar
-- 
 Alexander.Gottwald@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de
 http://www.gotti.org           ICQ: 126018723

Re: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22

[Zbynek Winkler]

Alexander Gottwald wrote:

>Alexander Gottwald wrote:
>  
>
>>On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Dr. Volker Zell wrote:
>>    
>>
>>No. The AutoRepeat option is not used yet. I'll change this.
>>    
>>
>
>Done.
>  
>
As it happens, I was completely happy with the old behavior. Now it 
defaults to something else than I have set in the win32 environment. 
Could the default be (when no config file is found) the autorepeat that 
was before the change? Thus this upgrade would hit only the users who 
really want to customise it.
Zbynek

-- 
http://zw.matfyz.cz/     http://robotika.cz/
Faculty of Mathematics and Physics, Charles University, Prague, Czech Republic

Re: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22

[Harold L Hunt II]

We were previously using two auto-repeat schemes at the same time:

1) xkb

2) Win32's auto repeat layer

Convince me why it is good to have two layers handling auto repeat by 
default and I will accede to your request.

Harold

Zbynek Winkler wrote:
> Alexander Gottwald wrote:
> 
>> Alexander Gottwald wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Dr. Volker Zell wrote:
>>>   
>>> No. The AutoRepeat option is not used yet. I'll change this.
>>>   
>>
>>
>> Done.
>>  
>>
> As it happens, I was completely happy with the old behavior. Now it 
> defaults to something else than I have set in the win32 environment. 
> Could the default be (when no config file is found) the autorepeat that 
> was before the change? Thus this upgrade would hit only the users who 
> really want to customise it.
> Zbynek
> 

Re: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22

[Zbynek Winkler]

I am not sure I know how the system worked internaly and I would 
cetrainly make no requests in that matter. I was just trying to point 
out the user point of view. You are (probably) saying that you have 
improved the software internaly (which is always good). However this 
improvement changed the original default behavior in such a way that in 
order to get it back I am going to have to browse the net for some 
XF86Config-4 file only to set it to same value I was perfectly happy 
with before I did the upgrade. Isn't it weird? And I know this will fix 
the problem only because I happend to subscribe a week ago to this list. 
Before that I didn't even know there was such an option. Could you make 
us all happy and use the win32 default unless told otherwise instead of 
pulling one out of thin air? Does it sound reasonable? We are talking 
here only about two numbers. I don't mean to be pain in the ... but I 
really think it is more logical to do it this way. Would it break anything?

Zbynek

Harold L Hunt II wrote:

> We were previously using two auto-repeat schemes at the same time:
>
> 1) xkb
>
> 2) Win32's auto repeat layer
>
> Convince me why it is good to have two layers handling auto repeat by 
> default and I will accede to your request.
>
> Harold
>
> Zbynek Winkler wrote:
>
>> Alexander Gottwald wrote:
>>
>>> Alexander Gottwald wrote:
>>>  
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Dr. Volker Zell wrote:
>>>>   No. The AutoRepeat option is not used yet. I'll change this.
>>>>   
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Done.
>>>  
>>>
>> As it happens, I was completely happy with the old behavior. Now it 
>> defaults to something else than I have set in the win32 environment. 
>> Could the default be (when no config file is found) the autorepeat 
>> that was before the change? Thus this upgrade would hit only the 
>> users who really want to customise it.
>> Zbynek
>>


-- 
http://zw.matfyz.cz/     http://robotika.cz/
Faculty of Mathematics and Physics, Charles University, Prague, Czech Republic

Re: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22

[Alexander Gottwald]

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003, Zbynek Winkler wrote:

> As it happens, I was completely happy with the old behavior. Now it 
> defaults to something else than I have set in the win32 environment. 
> Could the default be (when no config file is found) the autorepeat that 
> was before the change? Thus this upgrade would hit only the users who 
> really want to customise it.

There were two changes recently. The first switched off the win32 
autorepeat, the second added support for a AutoRepeat option in the 
configfile. 

The second may have changed default values (but I am quite sure that I've
used exactly the values which were default before). But I think you missed 
the first change which changed the old behaviour.

If this is the case I can add code to use the windows default autorepeat 
settings to configure Xwin. But this will again change the old behavior
of Xwin and some users might be unhappy with it.

bye
	ago
-- 
 Alexander.Gottwald@s1999.tu-chemnitz.de 
 http://www.gotti.org           ICQ: 126018723

Re: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22

[Alexander Gottwald]

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Alexander Gottwald wrote:

> If this is the case I can add code to use the windows default autorepeat 
> settings to configure Xwin. But this will again change the old behavior
> of Xwin and some users might be unhappy with it.

Just a note to myself: Querying the parameters with 

SystemParametersInfo and SPI_GETKEYBOARDDELAY or SPI_GETKEYBOARDSPEED

-- 
 Alexander.Gottwald@s1999.tu-chemnitz.de 
 http://www.gotti.org           ICQ: 126018723

Re: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22

[Jack Tanner]

Alexander Gottwald wrote:
> If this is the case I can add code to use the windows default autorepeat 
> settings to configure Xwin. But this will again change the old behavior
> of Xwin and some users might be unhappy with it.

It would be consistent with other behavior to get autorepeat settings 
from Windows, not from X settings. For example, we try to use the 
Windows language settings, right?

Since Xwin is a Windows application, there's little reason for it to 
have its own autorepeat configuration.

-JT

Keyboard autorepeat settings [Was: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22]

[Harold L Hunt II]

Jack Tanner wrote:

> Alexander Gottwald wrote:
> 
>> If this is the case I can add code to use the windows default 
>> autorepeat settings to configure Xwin. But this will again change the 
>> old behavior
>> of Xwin and some users might be unhappy with it.
> 
> 
> It would be consistent with other behavior to get autorepeat settings 
> from Windows, not from X settings. For example, we try to use the 
> Windows language settings, right?

Sort of... it isn't quite that cut and dried.

Besides, we have been using *both* X autorepeat and Windows autorepeat 
until recently.  This was not a good solution.

> Since Xwin is a Windows application, there's little reason for it to 
> have its own autorepeat configuration.

It might be nice, but the Windows autorepeat caused problems with 
systems running in Japanese... so they need the XKB autorepeat 
functionality, since the Windows autorepeat needs to be disabled for them.

So, we can't just remove XKB support or disable it permanently... it is 
required by some non-U.S. users.

It may seems like we are being indecisive here... but there are really a 
lot of concerns that need to be considered in order to get a correct 
solution.

Harold

Re: Keyboard autorepeat settings [Was: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22]

[Jack Tanner]

Harold L Hunt II wrote:
> It might be nice, but the Windows autorepeat caused problems with 
> systems running in Japanese... so they need the XKB autorepeat 
> functionality, since the Windows autorepeat needs to be disabled for them.

Huh. Not that I'm completely amazed, but it seems strange that Windows 
would be unable to handle Japanese keyboards. Is this an underlying 
Windows bug? Perhaps there's some workaround from Microsoft?

-JT

Re: Keyboard autorepeat settings [Was: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22]

[Harold L Hunt II]

Jack Tanner wrote:

> Harold L Hunt II wrote:
> 
>> It might be nice, but the Windows autorepeat caused problems with 
>> systems running in Japanese... so they need the XKB autorepeat 
>> functionality, since the Windows autorepeat needs to be disabled for 
>> them.
> 
> 
> Huh. Not that I'm completely amazed, but it seems strange that Windows 
> would be unable to handle Japanese keyboards. Is this an underlying 
> Windows bug? Perhaps there's some workaround from Microsoft?

It's not that it is unable to handle Japanese keyboards, it is that it 
sends fake autorepeat messages that screwup our handling of certain 
keys.  As Takuma for a better explanation.

Harold

Re: Keyboard autorepeat settings [Was: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22]

[Takuma Murakami]

It is my mistake that "silently" changing the default
behaviour.  I apologize and add some comments to show
my intention.

Harold L Hunt II wrote:
> It might be nice, but the Windows autorepeat caused problems with 
> systems running in Japanese... so they need the XKB autorepeat 
> functionality, since the Windows autorepeat needs to be disabled for them.

The Windows autorepeat is not crucial to Japanese
language handling.  Disabling it was a part of the patch
to improve mode key states synchronization.  Sorry for
confusing you, Harold.

I disabled it for the two reasons below:

1)  Having both Windows and XKB autorepeat breaks the
state synchronization.  For example, if we press Caps
Lock for a while, Windows toggles the state exactly once
but XKB repeatedly toggles the state since it receives
many KeyPress events generated by Windows autorepeat.

2)  Having two schemes for autorepeat looks not so
good as Harold said.  Adoption of XKB layer is just my
choice.  Because we are using an X server, it is natural
for me to configure it using X Window's manner (i.e.
xset).  Please consider keymaps; we set keymaps via
xmodmap, setxkbmap and/or XF86Config file -- all those
are X Window's manner.

Anyway, now we seem to find a better solution to get
default values from Windows and enable Windows autorepeat
if XKB is disabled.  It looks that Alexander is implementing
the features, is it right?  I really appreciate him.

Takuma Murakami (murakami@ipl.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp)

Re: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22

[Takuma Murakami]

> keyboard repeat does not work anymore with this new update. I think it worked with the previous (4.3.0-21) release. Any ideas?

The command 'xset r on' should enable auto-repeat on the
X Window layer.  xset can set auto-repeat parameters in
detail (please see 'man xset').

Of course it is better to check -kb option or
XF86Config-4 file for more sophisticated configuration.

Takuma Murakami (murakami@ipl.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp)

Re: Keyboard autorepeat settings [Was: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22]

[Cary Jamison]

"Harold L Hunt II" <huntharo@msu.edu> wrote in message
news:<3FBCF6D0.4090500@msu.edu>...
> Jack Tanner wrote:
> 
> > Alexander Gottwald wrote:
> > 
> >> If this is the case I can add code to use the windows default 
> >> autorepeat settings to configure Xwin. But this will again change
the 
> >> old behavior
> >> of Xwin and some users might be unhappy with it.
> > 
> > 
> > It would be consistent with other behavior to get autorepeat
settings 
> > from Windows, not from X settings. For example, we try to use the 
> > Windows language settings, right?
> 
> Sort of... it isn't quite that cut and dried.
> 
> Besides, we have been using *both* X autorepeat and Windows autorepeat

> until recently.  This was not a good solution.
> 
> > Since Xwin is a Windows application, there's little reason for it to

> > have its own autorepeat configuration.
> 
> It might be nice, but the Windows autorepeat caused problems with 
> systems running in Japanese... so they need the XKB autorepeat 
> functionality, since the Windows autorepeat needs to be disabled for
them.
> 
> So, we can't just remove XKB support or disable it permanently... it
is 
> required by some non-U.S. users.

It seems to me that what is being asked for is that XKB support is kept
but its default configuration (delay, repeat rate, etc.) is whatever
Windows is currently set to.  I think this makes very good since - if I
really want a repeat rate different for X applications I can configure
it, otherwise it should be the same as it is on all my other Windows
apps.

>From the above comments it looks like Alexander understood this but
Harold thought everyone was asking to remove XKB support and go back to
using Windows autorepeat.  Forgive me if I misread you, Harold.

> It may seems like we are being indecisive here... but there are really
a 
> lot of concerns that need to be considered in order to get a correct 
> solution.
> 
> Harold

Cary

Re: Keyboard autorepeat settings [Was: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22]

[Harold L Hunt II]

Cary,

Cary Jamison wrote:

> It seems to me that what is being asked for is that XKB support is kept
> but its default configuration (delay, repeat rate, etc.) is whatever
> Windows is currently set to.  I think this makes very good since - if I
> really want a repeat rate different for X applications I can configure
> it, otherwise it should be the same as it is on all my other Windows
> apps.
> 
> From the above comments it looks like Alexander understood this but
> Harold thought everyone was asking to remove XKB support and go back to
> using Windows autorepeat.  Forgive me if I misread you, Harold.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

People are asking for XKB to handle the generation of autorepeat key 
events, but for it to grab its default settings from the Windows 
autorepeat settings?  Is that what is going on here?

Harold

Re: Keyboard autorepeat settings [Was: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22]

[Zbynek Winkler]

Harold L Hunt II wrote:

> Cary,
>
> Cary Jamison wrote:
>
>> It seems to me that what is being asked for is that XKB support is kept
>> but its default configuration (delay, repeat rate, etc.) is whatever
>> Windows is currently set to.  I think this makes very good since - if I
>> really want a repeat rate different for X applications I can configure
>> it, otherwise it should be the same as it is on all my other Windows
>> apps.
>>
>> From the above comments it looks like Alexander understood this but
>> Harold thought everyone was asking to remove XKB support and go back to
>> using Windows autorepeat.  Forgive me if I misread you, Harold.
>
>
> I think you hit the nail on the head.
>
> People are asking for XKB to handle the generation of autorepeat key 
> events, but for it to grab its default settings from the Windows 
> autorepeat settings?  Is that what is going on here?

Yes, that was the original nature of my request. Forgive me for not 
being clear enough. I didn't understand the underlaying consequences to 
explain it better.
Zbynek

-- 
http://zw.matfyz.cz/     http://robotika.cz/
Faculty of Mathematics and Physics, Charles University, Prague, Czech Republic

Re: Keyboard autorepeat settings [Was: Updated: XFree86-xserv-4.3.0-22]

[Alexander Gottwald]

Cary Jamison wrote:

>
> It seems to me that what is being asked for is that XKB support is kept
> but its default configuration (delay, repeat rate, etc.) is whatever
> Windows is currently set to.  I think this makes very good since - if I
> really want a repeat rate different for X applications I can configure
> it, otherwise it should be the same as it is on all my other Windows
> apps.

It's on my todo list. I'll start with it right after I finish with getting
the fiasco microkernel running.

bye
    ago
-- 
 Alexander.Gottwald@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de
 http://www.gotti.org           ICQ: 126018723