ctrl-alt-{ ctrl-alt-[ ctrl-alt-] ctrl-alt-} not working as expected german keyboard on notebook

ctrl-alt-{ ctrl-alt-[ ctrl-alt-] ctrl-alt-} not working as expected german keyboard on notebook

[rhofmann]

Dell Latitude E6540, german keyboard.

I can type AltGr-{ ... and so on, but ctrl-alt-{ ... as labeled on the 
keyboard gives something wrong.

It seems like when Alt is pressed Ctrl (Strg) is ignored, it gives the 
same keys as without Ctrl.

I tried some things with setxkbmap, but no success.

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Re: ctrl-alt-{ ctrl-alt-[ ctrl-alt-] ctrl-alt-} not working as expected german keyboard on notebook

[Jon TURNEY]

On 18/02/2015 02:54, rhofmann@rayed.de wrote:
> Dell Latitude E6540, german keyboard.
>
> I can type AltGr-{ ... and so on, but ctrl-alt-{ ... as labeled on the
> keyboard gives something wrong.
>
> It seems like when Alt is pressed Ctrl (Strg) is ignored, it gives the
> same keys as without Ctrl.
>
> I tried some things with setxkbmap, but no success.

Unfortunately, there doesn't currently seem to be a way to configure X 
to act in this way.

In xkeyboard-config language, you are trying to access the "3rd level 
shift" for a key (1st level is the normal key, 2nd is the shifted key)

I believe that the standard (DIN 2137) specifies that this 3rd level is 
accessed by right alt.

ctrl + left alt being equivalent to right alt is a Windows-ism [1].

See the upstream bug [2], you might also find the discussion in [3] of 
interest.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltGr_key#Control_.2B_Alt_as_a_substitute
[2] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37232
[3] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xkeyboard-config/+bug/822872

-- 
Jon TURNEY
Volunteer Cygwin/X X Server maintainer

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Re: ctrl-alt-{ ctrl-alt-[ ctrl-alt-] ctrl-alt-} not working as expected german keyboard on notebook

[Thomas Wolff]

Am 18.02.2015 um 14:35 schrieb Jon TURNEY:
> On 18/02/2015 02:54, rhofmann@rayed.de wrote:
>> Dell Latitude E6540, german keyboard.
>>
>> I can type AltGr-{ ... and so on, but ctrl-alt-{ ... as labeled on the
>> keyboard gives something wrong.
>>
>> It seems like when Alt is pressed Ctrl (Strg) is ignored, it gives the
>> same keys as without Ctrl.
>>
>> I tried some things with setxkbmap, but no success.
Your description is quite inprecise; which terminal do you use (xterm?) 
and what exactly do you expect and see in those cases?
>
> Unfortunately, there doesn't currently seem to be a way to configure X 
> to act in this way.
>
> In xkeyboard-config language, you are trying to access the "3rd level 
> shift" for a key (1st level is the normal key, 2nd is the shifted key)
>
> I believe that the standard (DIN 2137) specifies that this 3rd level 
> is accessed by right alt.
>
> ctrl + left alt being equivalent to right alt is a Windows-ism [1].
Again, not sure exactly what effect you suggest but in fact 
Ctrl+Left-Alt and AltGr can be distinguished and it works in both xterm 
and mintty. (It's a bit tricky and I don't recall the details right now, 
it involves considering the sequence of events.)
------
Thomas

>
> See the upstream bug [2], you might also find the discussion in [3] of 
> interest.
>
> [1] 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltGr_key#Control_.2B_Alt_as_a_substitute
> [2] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37232
> [3] 
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xkeyboard-config/+bug/822872
>


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Re: ctrl-alt-{ ctrl-alt-[ ctrl-alt-] ctrl-alt-} not working as expected german keyboard on notebook

[Jon TURNEY]

On 18/02/2015 23:07, Thomas Wolff wrote:
> Am 18.02.2015 um 14:35 schrieb Jon TURNEY:
>> On 18/02/2015 02:54, rhofmann@rayed.de wrote:
>>> Dell Latitude E6540, german keyboard.
>>>
>>> I can type AltGr-{ ... and so on, but ctrl-alt-{ ... as labeled on the
>>> keyboard gives something wrong.
>>>
>>> It seems like when Alt is pressed Ctrl (Strg) is ignored, it gives the
>>> same keys as without Ctrl.
>>>
>>> I tried some things with setxkbmap, but no success.
> Your description is quite inprecise; which terminal do you use (xterm?)
> and what exactly do you expect and see in those cases?

I believe that '{' is on the 3rd shift level of 7 on a German keyboard.

So AltGr-7 gives '{', and (under Windows) Ctrl-LAlt-7 does the same.

>> Unfortunately, there doesn't currently seem to be a way to configure X
>> to act in this way.

What I meant to say is: There doesn't seem to be a simple way to 
configure X to act in this way.  You could make you own keyboard layout 
which behaves in this way...

>> In xkeyboard-config language, you are trying to access the "3rd level
>> shift" for a key (1st level is the normal key, 2nd is the shifted key)
>>
>> I believe that the standard (DIN 2137) specifies that this 3rd level
>> is accessed by right alt.
>>
>> ctrl + left alt being equivalent to right alt is a Windows-ism [1].
> Again, not sure exactly what effect you suggest but in fact
> Ctrl+Left-Alt and AltGr can be distinguished and it works in both xterm
> and mintty. (It's a bit tricky and I don't recall the details right now,
> it involves considering the sequence of events.)

The problem isn't that Ctrl-LAlt and AltGr aren't distinguished to X.

The problem is that the X keyboard layout doesn't map the Ctrl-LAlt-key 
combination as Windows does.

Ideally, we would have something like 'setxkbmap -option 
lv3:mswin_compat' to configure that mapping, but that doesn't exist at 
the moment.

-- 
Jon TURNEY
Volunteer Cygwin/X X Server maintainer

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