Re: Default Mouse Pointer is Wrong

Re: Default Mouse Pointer is Wrong

[Cary Jamison]

"Harold L Hunt II" <huntharo@msu.edu> wrote in message
news:<3FA96216.70706@msu.edu>...
> Cary Jamison wrote:
> 
> > I've noticed this too, but haven't complained about it.  I didn't
> > realize the problem was specific to the -multiwindow window manager.
> 
> This isn't a problem.  It is "the way it works".
> 
> > If this is true, than -multiwindow is not behaving as expected nor
as
> > other window managers behave wrt default cursors.  The xsetroot is a
> > work-around, but it seems to me this should be regarded as a bug in
the
> > window manager.  The 'X' should be the default cursor when over the
root
> > window but an arrow when over an application window.  Since
-multiwindow
> > doesn't really have a visible root window, it seems like permanently
> > changing the default cursor to a pointer would be a good/quick
solution.
> 
> Fine.  Run 'twm' as your window manager.  Doesn't it do the same exact

> thing?  That is the way that I have been reading the emails... if that

> is not the case, then could somebody please describe this better.?

No, it behaves as I described earlier.  Let me try again.

There is an 'X' over the root window, but when over an application
window the X changes to an arrow.  I realize that an application may
define its own pointers, but when it doesn't -multiwindows goes back to
an 'X' and twm goes to a black arrow.

For example :
  XWin&
  twm&
  xclock&

When the pointer is over the clock, it is a black arrow.  When over the
background it is an 'X'.

  XWin -multiwindow&
  xclock&

When the pointer is over the clock it is an 'X'.  There is no background
window.  I notice this in other apps as well.  For example, on the
scroll-bar of a gnome-terminal window displayed from my Linux box.  This
is where it gets annoying, because you have to point with the center of
the X instead of the tip of an arrow.

So, in essence most window managers have two default pointers - one when
over an app and one when over the background.  (Perhaps the window
manager only has one default pointer and uses the X server's default
pointer when not over a managed window?)

>From the history of XWin it is easy to see that there was originally
only a need for one default pointer.  When the internal window manager
got added, it still only has one pointer.  However, since there is no
background root window having one pointer is sufficient since it can be
the app default pointer (an arrow) instead of the background default
pointer (an X).

> The solution you propose is not trivial.  That is why this is "the way

> it works" and not a bug.  I'm sure that upon further inspection you 
> would figure out that trying to change this policy would result in the

> creation of a mouse-cursor over-riding policy that is a lot more 
> complicated than what you think it would be.  I'm pretty sure that it 
> would be complicated enough that it isn't worth looking into.  Of 
> course, feel free to code me into submission.

You may be right, since I haven't looked at the code yet.  The default
should be changeable through resource files, etc., so to do it right may
not be as simple as adding a line of code in the internal window manager
to change it.  Does the internal window manager handle any resources at
all, yet?  There probably hasn't been a need to define any.

The workaround of setting it in the startup file isn't bad, but it would
be nice to get it changed right for the newbies, etc.  Maybe as a
minimum the xsetroot command could be added with appropriate comments to
the startup file.

Here's even a psuedo-diff for you :-)

    <append to startxwin.bat>
    + REM Set default cursor - normally only useful with -multiwindow
window manager
    + run xsetroot -cursor_name left_ptr -fg white -bg black

I'm not making any promises, but my work-load should lighten up in a
couple weeks and I may be able to have a look at this then.

> Harold

Cary

Re: Default Mouse Pointer is Wrong

[Harold L Hunt II]

Cary Jamison wrote:

> "Ricky Boone" <whiplash@planetfurry.com> wrote in message
> news:<1068044377.32617.1.camel@whiplash.planetfurry.com>...
> 
>>On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 09:37, Yadin Y. Goldschmidt wrote:
>>
>>>Colin Harrison suggested long time ago to add the following line to
> 
> the end
> 
>>>of your startxwin.bat file:
>>>xsetroot -cursor_name left_ptr -fg white -bg black
>>>This will change the default mouse from an x to a white arrow.
>>
>>Ah ha, that did the trick.  My apologies, I didn't even notice the
>>suggestion when I searched for it.  -.-;;
>>
>>Thanks for the help.  :)
> 
> 
> I've noticed this too, but haven't complained about it.  I didn't
> realize the problem was specific to the -multiwindow window manager.

This isn't a problem.  It is "the way it works".

> If this is true, than -multiwindow is not behaving as expected nor as
> other window managers behave wrt default cursors.  The xsetroot is a
> work-around, but it seems to me this should be regarded as a bug in the
> window manager.  The 'X' should be the default cursor when over the root
> window but an arrow when over an application window.  Since -multiwindow
> doesn't really have a visible root window, it seems like permanently
> changing the default cursor to a pointer would be a good/quick solution.

Fine.  Run 'twm' as your window manager.  Doesn't it do the same exact 
thing?  That is the way that I have been reading the emails... if that 
is not the case, then could somebody please describe this better.?

The solution you propose is not trivial.  That is why this is "the way 
it works" and not a bug.  I'm sure that upon further inspection you 
would figure out that trying to change this policy would result in the 
creation of a mouse-cursor over-riding policy that is a lot more 
complicated than what you think it would be.  I'm pretty sure that it 
would be complicated enough that it isn't worth looking into.  Of 
course, feel free to code me into submission.

Harold

Re: Default Mouse Pointer is Wrong

[Cary Jamison]

"Ricky Boone" <whiplash@planetfurry.com> wrote in message
news:<1068044377.32617.1.camel@whiplash.planetfurry.com>...
> On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 09:37, Yadin Y. Goldschmidt wrote:
> > Colin Harrison suggested long time ago to add the following line to
the end
> > of your startxwin.bat file:
> > xsetroot -cursor_name left_ptr -fg white -bg black
> > This will change the default mouse from an x to a white arrow.
> 
> Ah ha, that did the trick.  My apologies, I didn't even notice the
> suggestion when I searched for it.  -.-;;
> 
> Thanks for the help.  :)

I've noticed this too, but haven't complained about it.  I didn't
realize the problem was specific to the -multiwindow window manager.

If this is true, than -multiwindow is not behaving as expected nor as
other window managers behave wrt default cursors.  The xsetroot is a
work-around, but it seems to me this should be regarded as a bug in the
window manager.  The 'X' should be the default cursor when over the root
window but an arrow when over an application window.  Since -multiwindow
doesn't really have a visible root window, it seems like permanently
changing the default cursor to a pointer would be a good/quick solution.

My $.02

Cary

Re: Default Mouse Pointer is Wrong

[Ricky Boone]

On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 09:37, Yadin Y. Goldschmidt wrote:
> Colin Harrison suggested long time ago to add the following line to the end
> of your startxwin.bat file:
> xsetroot -cursor_name left_ptr -fg white -bg black
> This will change the default mouse from an x to a white arrow.

Ah ha, that did the trick.  My apologies, I didn't even notice the
suggestion when I searched for it.  -.-;;

Thanks for the help.  :)

-- 
Ricky Boone <whiplash@planetfurry.com>
Planetfurry.com

Re: Default Mouse Pointer is Wrong

[Yadin Y. Goldschmidt]

Hi,
Colin Harrison suggested long time ago to add the following line to the end
of your startxwin.bat file:
xsetroot -cursor_name left_ptr -fg white -bg black
This will change the default mouse from an x to a white arrow.

An unrelated question to harold Hunt:
Why if one uses mwm as the window manager and one invokes xclock it does not
have a frame and can't be moved?
xterm, rxvt, xeyes, etc all have frames and can be moved.

"Ricky Boone" <whiplash@planetfurry.com> wrote in message
news:1068040438.32389.16.camel@whiplash.planetfurry.com...
> This may just be an idiotic question, but I couldn't seem to find an
> answer in the archives.
>
> I am trying to connect to remote applications in X (in -multiwindow
> mode) through ssh on cygwin.  When I open the remote application, the
> default mouse pointer (cursor, whatever) is an 'X'.  Some special areas
> in the application, such as text fields, change the cursor successfully
> to a text selection pointer, but the 'X' pointer remains the default
> nearly everywhere else.
>
> Previously I had been using the default window manager with Cygwin by
> running startx, then remoting inside of it.  That was a little
> roundabout, but it worked.  All cursors and pointers looked okay.
>
> I've just done a complete reinstall of Cygwin on my WinXP box, since I
> thought perhaps either something was screwed up with the previous
> installation, or something new had fixed the problem.  The remote system
> I'm connecting to is Fedora Core Test 3 running the latest packages,
> though I'm willing to bet if I find another machine to test this on it
> will do the same; it's got to be something on my end, whether it's a
> misconfiguration or something I'm forgetting to do.
>
> Here's a quick example of exactly what I'm doing:
>
> * Open Cygwin shell (cygwin.bat)
> * startxwin.sh
> * Inside the xterm window:  ssh -XC me@somebox.domain.tld
> * Once logged into remote box:  evolution &
> * Everything loads okay, but mouse pointer is an 'X' instead of the
> usual Windows arrow, or the default pointer on the remote box.
>
> Any ideas?  :)
>
> -- 
> Ricky Boone <whiplash@planetfurry.com>
> Planetfurry.com
>
>

Re: Default Mouse Pointer is Wrong

[Ricky Boone]

On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 09:08, Harold L Hunt II wrote:
> The default mouse pointer in X is an X.  You are describing the correct 
> scenario.

Okay, my mistake there.  When I am referring to default, I mean the
normal cursor, usually being an arrow. 

> The mouse pointer should not be a Windows arrow.

I didn't think so since it wasn't like that while using the default
cygwin window manager; it was using an arrow.

> The mouse pointer will not be the default pointer that you have under 
> Gnome or KDE on the remote system because you are not running Gnome or 
> KDE on the remote system... you are running only a single application 
> with a local (not remote) window manager (a.k.a. MultiWindow mode, 
> a.k.a. -multiwindow command-line parameter).  Thus, the mouse pointer 
> will be either a) the default mouse pointer (an X), or b) whatever an 
> application sets it to (e.g. a text insertion cursor).
> 
> Does that make sense?  Everything seems to be functioning normally.

It does, but what is preventing the cursor from being displayed as an
arrow like it could without -multiwindow enabled?  Fuctionality-wise it
works just fine, but aesthetically it's not ideal for the user to see an
'X' when they normally see an arrow. 

-- 
Ricky Boone <whiplash@planetfurry.com>
Planetfurry.com

Re: Default Mouse Pointer is Wrong

[Harold L Hunt II]

Ricky,

Ricky Boone wrote:

> This may just be an idiotic question, but I couldn't seem to find an
> answer in the archives.
> 
> I am trying to connect to remote applications in X (in -multiwindow
> mode) through ssh on cygwin.  When I open the remote application, the
> default mouse pointer (cursor, whatever) is an 'X'.  Some special areas
> in the application, such as text fields, change the cursor successfully
> to a text selection pointer, but the 'X' pointer remains the default
> nearly everywhere else.

The default mouse pointer in X is an X.  You are describing the correct 
scenario.

> Previously I had been using the default window manager with Cygwin by
> running startx, then remoting inside of it.  That was a little
> roundabout, but it worked.  All cursors and pointers looked okay.
> 
> I've just done a complete reinstall of Cygwin on my WinXP box, since I
> thought perhaps either something was screwed up with the previous
> installation, or something new had fixed the problem.  The remote system
> I'm connecting to is Fedora Core Test 3 running the latest packages,
> though I'm willing to bet if I find another machine to test this on it
> will do the same; it's got to be something on my end, whether it's a
> misconfiguration or something I'm forgetting to do.
> 
> Here's a quick example of exactly what I'm doing:
> 
> * Open Cygwin shell (cygwin.bat)
> * startxwin.sh
> * Inside the xterm window:  ssh -XC me@somebox.domain.tld
> * Once logged into remote box:  evolution &
> * Everything loads okay, but mouse pointer is an 'X' instead of the
> usual Windows arrow, or the default pointer on the remote box.

The mouse pointer should not be a Windows arrow.

The mouse pointer will not be the default pointer that you have under 
Gnome or KDE on the remote system because you are not running Gnome or 
KDE on the remote system... you are running only a single application 
with a local (not remote) window manager (a.k.a. MultiWindow mode, 
a.k.a. -multiwindow command-line parameter).  Thus, the mouse pointer 
will be either a) the default mouse pointer (an X), or b) whatever an 
application sets it to (e.g. a text insertion cursor).

Does that make sense?  Everything seems to be functioning normally.

Harold

Default Mouse Pointer is Wrong

[Ricky Boone]

This may just be an idiotic question, but I couldn't seem to find an
answer in the archives.

I am trying to connect to remote applications in X (in -multiwindow
mode) through ssh on cygwin.  When I open the remote application, the
default mouse pointer (cursor, whatever) is an 'X'.  Some special areas
in the application, such as text fields, change the cursor successfully
to a text selection pointer, but the 'X' pointer remains the default
nearly everywhere else.

Previously I had been using the default window manager with Cygwin by
running startx, then remoting inside of it.  That was a little
roundabout, but it worked.  All cursors and pointers looked okay.

I've just done a complete reinstall of Cygwin on my WinXP box, since I
thought perhaps either something was screwed up with the previous
installation, or something new had fixed the problem.  The remote system
I'm connecting to is Fedora Core Test 3 running the latest packages,
though I'm willing to bet if I find another machine to test this on it
will do the same; it's got to be something on my end, whether it's a
misconfiguration or something I'm forgetting to do.

Here's a quick example of exactly what I'm doing:

* Open Cygwin shell (cygwin.bat)
* startxwin.sh
* Inside the xterm window:  ssh -XC me@somebox.domain.tld
* Once logged into remote box:  evolution &
* Everything loads okay, but mouse pointer is an 'X' instead of the
usual Windows arrow, or the default pointer on the remote box.

Any ideas?  :)

-- 
Ricky Boone <whiplash@planetfurry.com>
Planetfurry.com