why not use root as root?

why not use root as root?

[Gerrit P. Haase]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi cygwinners,

I found this entry in the faq:

http://cygwin.com/faq/faq_4.html#SEC52	

So there is no explanation, what is the problem with that issue.
I only read, that it is not recommended, but why?

'It is strongly recommended not to make the Cygwin root directory 
the same as your drive's root directory, unless you know what you 
are doing and are prepared to deal with the consequences. '

What are the consequences?

regards,

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Version: PGP 6.5.8 -- QDPGP 2.61c
Comment: =^..^=

iQA/AwUBOk/zTDBeUmEooFE3EQJtcQCg8dAlF/t+SLcQfiEajBguP6O3g8oAn1K7
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=+p0X
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-- 
=^..^=
Gerrit Peter Haase
ID: 0x28A05137
FP: 875C 745E 01CF 8A34 2767  BE39 305E 5261 28A0 5137

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Re: why not use root as root?

[Anthony & Yinkwan]

I took it that they ment the root directory of your windows boot
partition (C:) ... I've installed Cygwin in the root directory of a
dedicated NTFS partition (D:) and suffered no dire consequences to date !

"Gerrit P. Haase" wrote:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hi cygwinners,
> 
> I found this entry in the faq:
> 
> http://cygwin.com/faq/faq_4.html#SEC52
> 
> So there is no explanation, what is the problem with that issue.
> I only read, that it is not recommended, but why?
> 
> 'It is strongly recommended not to make the Cygwin root directory
> the same as your drive's root directory, unless you know what you
> are doing and are prepared to deal with the consequences. '
> 
> What are the consequences?
> 
> regards,
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGP 6.5.8 -- QDPGP 2.61c
> Comment: =^..^=
> 
> iQA/AwUBOk/zTDBeUmEooFE3EQJtcQCg8dAlF/t+SLcQfiEajBguP6O3g8oAn1K7
> LCqAVNwGmIJBmMVS7dpXEd7v
> =+p0X
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> --
> =^..^=
> Gerrit Peter Haase
> ID: 0x28A05137
> FP: 875C 745E 01CF 8A34 2767  BE39 305E 5261 28A0 5137
> 
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Re: why not use root as root?

[Gerrit P. Haase]

<31 Dec 2000, 20:37 Uhr wars, als Anthony & Yinkwan folgendes schrub:>
< Re: why not use root as root? >

> I took it that they ment the root directory of your windows boot
> partition (C:) ... I've installed Cygwin in the root directory of a
> dedicated NTFS partition (D:) and suffered no dire consequences to date !

Yes, so did i, got a free partitition, so i feel brave to try it.
One issue, i find out is, if you aere in root dir ' / ' and do a 
'cd ..' , you find yourself in ' /.. ' , and after another 'cd ..'
you are in ' /../.. ', maybe this could cause problems?

 
> "Gerrit P. Haase" wrote:
> > 
> > I found this entry in the faq:
> > 
> > http://cygwin.com/faq/faq_4.html#SEC52
> > 
> > So there is no explanation, what is the problem with that issue.
> > I only read, that it is not recommended, but why?
> > 
> > 'It is strongly recommended not to make the Cygwin root directory
> > the same as your drive's root directory, unless you know what you
> > are doing and are prepared to deal with the consequences. '
> > 
> > What are the consequences?

-- 
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Re: why not use root as root?

[Robert Collins]

One reason is that some existing programs ported from unix use \bin or \usr etc on the windows drive for storing their programs. If
you install cygwin into the same location you may conflict with those packages - thus the recommendation.

Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerrit P. Haase" <gerrit.haase@t-online.de>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: why not use root as root?


> <31 Dec 2000, 20:37 Uhr wars, als Anthony & Yinkwan folgendes schrub:>
> < Re: why not use root as root? >
>
> > I took it that they ment the root directory of your windows boot
> > partition (C:) ... I've installed Cygwin in the root directory of a
> > dedicated NTFS partition (D:) and suffered no dire consequences to date !
>
> Yes, so did i, got a free partitition, so i feel brave to try it.
> One issue, i find out is, if you aere in root dir ' / ' and do a
> 'cd ..' , you find yourself in ' /.. ' , and after another 'cd ..'
> you are in ' /../.. ', maybe this could cause problems?
>
>
> > "Gerrit P. Haase" wrote:
> > >
> > > I found this entry in the faq:
> > >
> > > http://cygwin.com/faq/faq_4.html#SEC52
> > >
> > > So there is no explanation, what is the problem with that issue.
> > > I only read, that it is not recommended, but why?
> > >
> > > 'It is strongly recommended not to make the Cygwin root directory
> > > the same as your drive's root directory, unless you know what you
> > > are doing and are prepared to deal with the consequences. '
> > >
> > > What are the consequences?
>
> --
> =^..^=
> Gerrit Peter Haase
> ID: 0x28A05137
> FP: 875C 745E 01CF 8A34 2767  BE39 305E 5261 28A0 5137
>
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>


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Re: why not use root as root?

[Christopher Faylor]

On Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 05:02:36AM +0100, Gerrit P. Haase wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>Hi cygwinners,
>
>I found this entry in the faq:
>
> http://cygwin.com/faq/faq_4.html#SEC52	
>
>So there is no explanation, what is the problem with that issue.
>I only read, that it is not recommended, but why?
>
>'It is strongly recommended not to make the Cygwin root directory 
>the same as your drive's root directory, unless you know what you 
>are doing and are prepared to deal with the consequences. '
>
>What are the consequences?

The consequences are discussed in the three sentences after the ones
that you quoted.  Please read the rest of the entry.

cgf

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Re: why not use root as root?

[Gerrit P. Haase]

<1 Jan 2001, 14:20 Uhr wars, als Christopher Faylor folgendes schrub:>
< Re: why not use root as root? >

> On Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 05:02:36AM +0100, Gerrit P. Haase wrote:
> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >Hash: SHA1
> >
> >Hi cygwinners,
> >
> >I found this entry in the faq:
> >
> > http://cygwin.com/faq/faq_4.html#SEC52	
> >
> >So there is no explanation, what is the problem with that issue.
> >I only read, that it is not recommended, but why?
> >
> >'It is strongly recommended not to make the Cygwin root directory 
> >the same as your drive's root directory, unless you know what you 
> >are doing and are prepared to deal with the consequences. '
> >
> >What are the consequences?
> 
> The consequences are discussed in the three sentences after the ones
> that you quoted.  Please read the rest of the entry.
> 

:It is generally easier to maintain the Cygwin hierarchy if it is isolated from,
:say, C:\. For one thing, you avoid possible collisions with other (non-cygwin)
:applications that may create (for example) \bin and \lib directories. 
:(Maybe you have nothing like that installed now, but who knows about things you
:might add in the future?) 

'Generally...', and in special?
'For one thing...', and the second one?
'...but who knows...', I know...!
-- 
=^..^=
Gerrit Peter Haase
ID: 0x28A05137
FP: 875C 745E 01CF 8A34 2767  BE39 305E 5261 28A0 5137

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Re: why not use root as root?

[Robert Collins]

Ah, so you see the future?

Seriously, there are programs that CANNOT change where their files go and still operate - and when they collide with cygwin, goodbye
cygwin | goodbye those programs.

Are you saying the FAQ entry is wrong or misleading or hard to understand?

I think it is accurate and the suggestion should be made as it is.
I do not think it is misleading.
Perhaps it could be clearer as to the reasons for the recommendation - do you have some suggested text to put there? (As I wasn't
confused by it I am stumped with respect to understanding the confusion).

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerrit P. Haase" <gerrit.haase@t-online.de>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: why not use root as root?


> <1 Jan 2001, 14:20 Uhr wars, als Christopher Faylor folgendes schrub:>
> < Re: why not use root as root? >
>
> > On Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 05:02:36AM +0100, Gerrit P. Haase wrote:
> > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > >Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > >Hi cygwinners,
> > >
> > >I found this entry in the faq:
> > >
> > > http://cygwin.com/faq/faq_4.html#SEC52
> > >
> > >So there is no explanation, what is the problem with that issue.
> > >I only read, that it is not recommended, but why?
> > >
> > >'It is strongly recommended not to make the Cygwin root directory
> > >the same as your drive's root directory, unless you know what you
> > >are doing and are prepared to deal with the consequences. '
> > >
> > >What are the consequences?
> >
> > The consequences are discussed in the three sentences after the ones
> > that you quoted.  Please read the rest of the entry.
> >
>
> :It is generally easier to maintain the Cygwin hierarchy if it is isolated from,
> :say, C:\. For one thing, you avoid possible collisions with other (non-cygwin)
> :applications that may create (for example) \bin and \lib directories.
> :(Maybe you have nothing like that installed now, but who knows about things you
> :might add in the future?)
>
> 'Generally...', and in special?
> 'For one thing...', and the second one?
> '...but who knows...', I know...!
> --
> =^..^=
> Gerrit Peter Haase
> ID: 0x28A05137
> FP: 875C 745E 01CF 8A34 2767  BE39 305E 5261 28A0 5137
>
> --
> Want to unsubscribe from this list?
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>


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Re: why not use root as root?

[Christopher Faylor]

On Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 10:57:29AM +1100, Robert Collins wrote:
>Ah, so you see the future?
>
>Seriously, there are programs that CANNOT change where their files go
>and still operate - and when they collide with cygwin, goodbye cygwin |
>goodbye those programs.
>
>Are you saying the FAQ entry is wrong or misleading or hard to
>understand?
>
>I think it is accurate and the suggestion should be made as it is.  I
>do not think it is misleading.  Perhaps it could be clearer as to the
>reasons for the recommendation - do you have some suggested text to put
>there?  (As I wasn't confused by it I am stumped with respect to
>understanding the confusion).

Big ditto.

cgf

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Re: why not use root as root?

[Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc)]

Right.  Perhaps as an attempt to clarify, the FAQ contains an entry on this
to discourage people who don't understand (or care) about the placement of 
tools and the differences between Cygwin utilities and Win32/DOS versions
of the same name.  If an individual is cognizant of these issues and 
careful to avoid conflicts, one may install Cygwin anywhere, including the
root of any drive.  Of course, if one decides to do this and later has some
troubles, its likely that any queries to this list will receive back the 
suggestion of installing at the recommended location as a first step to 
resolving the issue.  This is simply because there are far too many possible 
configurations and too few that can (or want to) help track problems like 
this.  Following this recommendation eliminates at least one variable and 
will save the users in general possible problems.  This has the added bonus 
of limiting many user queries to the list about why Cygwin utilities in 
c:\bin suddenly don't work after one installs MKS into c:\bin!;-)


Larry Hall                              lhall@rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      http://www.rfk.com
118 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
Holliston, MA 01746                     (508) 893-9889 - FAX


  
At 06:57 PM 1/1/2001, Robert Collins wrote:
>Ah, so you see the future?
>
>Seriously, there are programs that CANNOT change where their files go and still operate - and when they collide with cygwin, goodbye
>cygwin | goodbye those programs.
>
>Are you saying the FAQ entry is wrong or misleading or hard to understand?
>
>I think it is accurate and the suggestion should be made as it is.
>I do not think it is misleading.
>Perhaps it could be clearer as to the reasons for the recommendation - do you have some suggested text to put there? (As I wasn't
>confused by it I am stumped with respect to understanding the confusion).
>
>Rob
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gerrit P. Haase" <gerrit.haase@t-online.de>
>To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 8:42 AM
>Subject: Re: why not use root as root?
>
>
> > <1 Jan 2001, 14:20 Uhr wars, als Christopher Faylor folgendes schrub:>
> > < Re: why not use root as root? >
> >
> > > On Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 05:02:36AM +0100, Gerrit P. Haase wrote:
> > > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > >Hash: SHA1
> > > >
> > > >Hi cygwinners,
> > > >
> > > >I found this entry in the faq:
> > > >
> > > > http://cygwin.com/faq/faq_4.html#SEC52
> > > >
> > > >So there is no explanation, what is the problem with that issue.
> > > >I only read, that it is not recommended, but why?
> > > >
> > > >'It is strongly recommended not to make the Cygwin root directory
> > > >the same as your drive's root directory, unless you know what you
> > > >are doing and are prepared to deal with the consequences. '
> > > >
> > > >What are the consequences?
> > >
> > > The consequences are discussed in the three sentences after the ones
> > > that you quoted.  Please read the rest of the entry.
> > >
> >
> > :It is generally easier to maintain the Cygwin hierarchy if it is isolated from,
> > :say, C:\. For one thing, you avoid possible collisions with other (non-cygwin)
> > :applications that may create (for example) \bin and \lib directories.
> > :(Maybe you have nothing like that installed now, but who knows about things you
> > :might add in the future?)
> >
> > 'Generally...', and in special?
> > 'For one thing...', and the second one?
> > '...but who knows...', I know...!
> > --
> > =^..^=
> > Gerrit Peter Haase
> > ID: 0x28A05137
> > FP: 875C 745E 01CF 8A34 2767  BE39 305E 5261 28A0 5137
> >
> > --
> > Want to unsubscribe from this list?
> > Check out: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: why not use root as root?

[Earnie Boyd]

"Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc)" wrote:

> Right.  Perhaps as an attempt to clarify, the FAQ contains an entry on this
> to discourage people who don't understand (or care) about the placement of
> tools and the differences between Cygwin utilities and Win32/DOS versions
> of the same name.  If an individual is cognizant of these issues and
> careful to avoid conflicts, one may install Cygwin anywhere, including the
> root of any drive.  Of course, if one decides to do this and later has some
> troubles, its likely that any queries to this list will receive back the
> suggestion of installing at the recommended location as a first step to
> resolving the issue.  This is simply because there are far too many possible
> configurations and too few that can (or want to) help track problems like
> this.  Following this recommendation eliminates at least one variable and
> will save the users in general possible problems.  This has the added bonus
> of limiting many user queries to the list about why Cygwin utilities in
> c:\bin suddenly don't work after one installs MKS into c:\bin!;-)
>

Thanks, Larry.  I was about to say something similar but decided to see if someone had already chimed in on this point.  If you expect
help from this list then you had best do as suggested, otherwise you may be on your own when a problem arises.

Cheers,
Earnie.


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Re: why not use root as root?

[Gerrit P. Haase]

<2 Jan 2001, 10:57 Uhr wars, als Robert Collins folgendes schrub:>
< Re: why not use root as root? >

Hi Rob,

[...]
> Are you saying the FAQ entry is wrong or misleading or hard to understand?

No, not that it is wrong, not misleading, but for me it is hard to 
understand, first, i'm german and my english is not that good as yours,
second, i got two hdd's with 40GB, there are five partitions, i use now one 
complete drive (partition) only for cygwin. It is not my system-drive, so i 
expect no trouble.

On windows, AFAIK, most applications could be installed were you want it.

VC++ e.g. is in c:\programme\visual studio\blah\bin
BC++ e.g. is in c:\bc5\bin
perl is in c:\perl\bin, pyhton is in c:\python\bin
and so on.

> I think it is accurate and the suggestion should be made as it is.
> I do not think it is misleading.

I thought that maybe there are problems with cygwins functionality and if 
so it should be explained in which form.

In another listmail these days i read, that dejagnu is only working if 
cygwin is installed in root of a drive, but i don't understand why, for me 
dejagnu is not working either, though i installed in root.

> Perhaps it could be clearer as to the reasons for the recommendation - do
> you have some suggested text to put there? (As I wasn't confused by it I am
> stumped with respect to understanding the confusion).
> 
> Rob

I suggest, a hint, that it is no problem to install cygwin on the root, if 
cygwin got its own drive or s.th. like this would be nice.

At last i thought, if it would not work with cygwin on root, then the 
setup.exe would not allow to install in root:-)
-- 
=^..^=
Gerrit Peter Haase
ID: 0x28A05137
FP: 875C 745E 01CF 8A34 2767  BE39 305E 5261 28A0 5137

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RE: why not use root as root?

[Robert Collins]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gerrit P. Haase [ mailto:gerrit.haase@t-online.de ]
> 
> <2 Jan 2001, 10:57 Uhr wars, als Robert Collins folgendes schrub:>
> < Re: why not use root as root? >
> 
> Hi Rob,
> 
> [...]
> > Are you saying the FAQ entry is wrong or misleading or hard 
> to understand?
> 
> No, not that it is wrong, not misleading, but for me it is hard to 
> understand, first, i'm german and my english is not that good 
> as yours,

I can understand language dificulties- that's why I suggested you might
have some better text for use in the FAQ.

> second, i got two hdd's with 40GB, there are five partitions, 
> i use now one 
> complete drive (partition) only for cygwin. It is not my 
> system-drive, so i 
> expect no trouble.

Again, as long as you never install any other software on that
partition. The point of the entry is software collisions - you have
obviously read that and come to a workable solution. However I don't
think the FAQ is wrong here (a) relatively few people have the luxury of
dedicated a partition to cygwin (b) few people (IMO) will want to
reserve the space rather than sharing space between cygwin and other
applications.

> 
> On windows, AFAIK, most applications could be installed were 
> you want it.

Not true. Many can now, but in the past many programs were hardcoded to
specific locations. Also the early unix like tools on windows (ie mks as
already mentioned here) used c:\ as / - which is why cygwin avoids that.

> 
> VC++ e.g. is in c:\programme\visual studio\blah\bin
> BC++ e.g. is in c:\bc5\bin
> perl is in c:\perl\bin, pyhton is in c:\python\bin
> and so on.
> 
> > I think it is accurate and the suggestion should be made as it is.
> > I do not think it is misleading.
> 
> I thought that maybe there are problems with cygwins 
> functionality and if 
> so it should be explained in which form.

there are: when other tools are present. 

> In another listmail these days i read, that dejagnu is only 
> working if 
> cygwin is installed in root of a drive, but i don't 
> understand why, for me 
> dejagnu is not working either, though i installed in root.

Chris just discussed this - tcl is not cygwin aware.

> > Perhaps it could be clearer as to the reasons for the 
> recommendation - do
> > you have some suggested text to put there? (As I wasn't 
> confused by it I am
> > stumped with respect to understanding the confusion).
> > 
> > Rob
> 
> I suggest, a hint, that it is no problem to install cygwin on 
> the root, if 
> cygwin got its own drive or s.th. like this would be nice.

Why? Having it installed in the root offers no benefits (other than
dejagnu working). And everyone doing support on the list is likely to
ask a user that has installed into the root to reinstall off the root.

> 
> At last i thought, if it would not work with cygwin on root, then the 
> setup.exe would not allow to install in root:-)

It does work. But there _may_ be gotchas. There _are_ gotchas with other
products.

What benefits does encouraging this sort of install bring?

Rob

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Re: why not use root as root?

[Christopher Faylor]

On Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 01:12:11PM +1100, Robert Collins wrote:
>> At last i thought, if it would not work with cygwin on root, then the 
>> setup.exe would not allow to install in root:-)
>
>It does work. But there _may_ be gotchas. There _are_ gotchas with other
>products.
>
>What benefits does encouraging this sort of install bring?

There are few benefits.  It's nice to type "c:\bin\ls" rather than
"c:\cygwin\bin\ls".  Things may work better with "dejagnu" (as you
mentioned).  Other thatn that there are no benefits.

As you know, we have already hashed this over many times.  That is why
there is a FAQ entry.

The section of the FAQ that is under fire shows the preference of the
people who are distributing cygwin and gives a rationale for doing
things a certain way.  It is not intended to be an exhaustive treatise
which magically adapts itself to everyone who reads it.

We certainly allow installing to the root.  I used to run things that
way myself.  We have found, through experience, that it is best to
install cygwin in its own directory <bold>just like all of the packages
that were mentioned in Gerrit's previous email</bold>.

Why do you suppose that packages like "perl" and "Visual C" install
their files in separate directories?  It is for precisely the same
reason as what is done for cygwin.  The cited examples actually
strengthen the position of putting cygwin in its own directory.

In this, as in everything, experience is the best teacher.  If you
really have to rely on people here to tell you specifically what you
need to do on your system then you probably should do what the people
are telling you.  If you are interested in experimenting, then
experiment.  We've already rehashed the FAQ a couple of times.  If you
(Gerrit) don't agree with the sentiments contained in the FAQ then feel
free to ignore it.

I guess I'll ask David to make the wording even more painfully clear to
see if there is any possibility of plugging the hole in this dam.
Somehow, I have a feeling that we will still be discussing this years
from now, though.

cgf

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Re: why not use root as root?

[Earnie Boyd]

Robert Collins wrote:

>
> Why? Having it installed in the root offers no benefits (other than
> dejagnu working). And everyone doing support on the list is likely to
> ask a user that has installed into the root to reinstall off the root.

And, it will only work if you are on the drive with Cygwin installed in the
root partition.   I.E. you can only build and test on the drive with Cygwin
on it.

Cheers,
Earnie


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Re: why not use root as root?

[Tim Prince]

Maybe I don't understand what you are saying here.  I build and test
software routinely on a FAT32 partition, using build environments installed
on either an NTFS or an extfs partition, so I can compare the test results
conveniently.  Possibly, you mean that the cygwin drive root installation is
advisable only when installed on the same partition as the OS.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Earnie Boyd" <earnie_boyd@yahoo.com>
To: "Robert Collins" <robert.collins@itdomain.com.au>
Cc: <gerrit.haase@t-online.de>; <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: why not use root as root?


> Robert Collins wrote:
>
> >
> > Why? Having it installed in the root offers no benefits (other than
> > dejagnu working). And everyone doing support on the list is likely to
> > ask a user that has installed into the root to reinstall off the root.
>
> And, it will only work if you are on the drive with Cygwin installed in
the
> root partition.   I.E. you can only build and test on the drive with
Cygwin
> on it.
>
> Cheers,
> Earnie



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Re: why not use root as root?

[Gerrit P. Haase]

<1 Jan 2001, 21:03 Uhr wars, als Tim Prince folgendes schrub:>
< Re: why not use root as root? >

> Maybe I don't understand what you are saying here.  I build and test
> software routinely on a FAT32 partition, using build environments installed
> on either an NTFS or an extfs partition, so I can compare the test results
> conveniently.  Possibly, you mean that the cygwin drive root installation is
> advisable only when installed on the same partition as the OS.
> 

Because there are no bigger problems than collision with other packages, 
then a short note (maybe shorter as it is) would be enough.
S.th. like:

'As long as you do not install other packages which may collide with cygwin 
tools, there are no known problems.'

That is what i would expect, but it is mentioned in the faq's like there 
were to expect a lot of problems, including collision as 'One thing...'.
The faq-entry sounds to me like the 'main thing...' is not mentioned.

But, what the hell, i installed in root now and i'm content that everything 
works still.


-- 
=^..^=
Gerrit Peter Haase
ID: 0x28A05137
FP: 875C 745E 01CF 8A34 2767  BE39 305E 5261 28A0 5137

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Re: why not use root as root?

[Earnie Boyd]

Tim Prince wrote:

> Maybe I don't understand what you are saying here.  I build and test
> software routinely on a FAT32 partition, using build environments installed
> on either an NTFS or an extfs partition, so I can compare the test results
> conveniently.  Possibly, you mean that the cygwin drive root installation is
> advisable only when installed on the same partition as the OS.

I mean, that when a non-Cygwin program looks for /foo then your working
directory must be on the disk where /foo resides.

Cheers,
Earnie.


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Re: why not use root as root?

[Tim Prince]

mks and cygwin coexist peacefully on my 2K box at the office, with cygwin
installed in its own directory, and run only from a window opened by
cygwin.bat. Actually, mks resides in its own directory as well, but requires
that directory to come first on the PATH in effect outside cygwin.  The mks
tools which are not duplicated by cygwin show up in the cygwin window as
well.  Where I don't have mks, I install cygwin on the w2k installation
root, in order to be able to run gcc testsuite.  mks runs to a limited
extent even on the Windows variants which don't support the forking
mechanism used by both mks and cygwin.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Collins" <robert.collins@itdomain.com.au>
To: <gerrit.haase@t-online.de>; <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 6:12 PM
Subject: RE: why not use root as root?

Also the early unix like tools on windows (ie mks as
already mentioned here) used c:\ as / - which is why cygwin avoids that.




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RE: why not use root as root?

[Peter Ring]

Although cygwin users are, in general, early adapters with a bit of battle
experience, I understand your concern; some cygwin users want things to work
out-of-the-box (or net, as it is), so why not just adapt to their simple
ways, and give them a *nix-like environment in a small black box on their
Windows(R) desktop, avoiding interaction with the cruel environment outside?

Well, for some of us at least, the whole idea of having this *nix-like
environment running on top of Windows is exactly that we need things to
interact - why else the bother? Since we know that we have to (indeed want
to) take care of a multitude of interfaces and interactions, this RMPW
(root-mount-point-warning) is perplexing. It hints that we might have
overlooked something significant, and provokes us to pester the list with
the subject 'why not use root as root?'.

Unless you intend to use cygwin only from within a very restricted
environment, e.g. a very simple PATH, you'll have to take care of
name-clashes between executables anyway. 'sort' and 'find' comes to mind.

But I'm sorry to say that I find it hard to improve on the wording in the
FAQ. It actually just says "unless you know what you are doing and are
prepared to deal with the consequences".

Of course I went ahead and mounted '/' off the root of a Windows volume; so
far no disasters. I maintain a directory tree rather similar to the
Filesystem Hierarchy Standard, installing native ports of TeX, ghostscript,
emacs, etc. into this directory tree, and I find it easier to understand and
maintain if '/usr/local' is 'E:\usr\local' and so on.

Happy new year and thanks for a great project!

Kind regards,
Peter Ring



-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Faylor [ mailto:cgf@redhat.com ]
Sent: 2. januar 2001 03:31
To: cygwin@cygwin.com
Subject: Re: why not use root as root?


<snip>

The section of the FAQ that is under fire shows the preference of the
people who are distributing cygwin and gives a rationale for doing
things a certain way.  It is not intended to be an exhaustive treatise
which magically adapts itself to everyone who reads it.

<snip>

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RE: why not use root as root?

[Reini Urban]

>From: "Robert Collins" <robert dot collins at itdomain dot com dot au> 
>Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 13:12:11 +1100 
>
>It does work. But there _may_ be gotchas. There _are_ gotchas with other
>products.
>What benefits does encouraging this sort of install bring?

I ran cygwin-b20 successfully for some years as root
in e:/usr/bin/;e:/usr/local/bin/; ...

That way I needed only one PATH setting, which was converted automatically 
in the bash to /usr/bin:/usr/local/bin

But most importantly I could run she-bang programs from cmd.exe or 
any msvc spawn plus from any cygwin app unchanged.
This was a must for apache cgi's.
now I must use #! /usr/bin/perl and #! /e/cygwin/usr/bin/perl
where apache is built with msvc.

Cannot remember other benefits now exactly, but there were some others  
with msvc compiled gnu apps. xemacs and emacs certainly.
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/news/faq/autolisp.html

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