Running fontforge.exe does nothing

Running fontforge.exe does nothing

[David Spector]

Hi.

I've installed the latest cygwin on my Windows XP Home 
system named "SYS3", and it appears to run perfectly. 
I have plenty of disk and memory space.

www.springtimesoftware.com/ff-screen02.JPG shows the 
result of typing xinit. (Typing startx is similar for 
me, except that the created X window is smaller.)

I installed the latest fontforge, following the 
official instructions.

When I run fontforge in the X window, nothing happens. 
www.springtimesoftware.com/ff-screen01.JPG shows this. 
As you can see, there is no error message. (I would 
have thought this was a fontforge question, but I was 
asked to post it here.)

Does anyone have an idea of what I could have done 
wrong?

I should say I know next to nothing about cygwin, 
fontforge, or Linux. I'm only interested in running 
fontforge, which requires cygwin. I believe lots of 
people do run fontforge on Windows, so an answer may 
be relevant to people other than myself.

David


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RE: Running fontforge.exe does nothing

[Dave Korn]

David Spector wrote on 22 June 2008 12:30:

> I installed the latest fontforge, following the
> official instructions.
> 
> When I run fontforge in the X window, nothing happens.
> www.springtimesoftware.com/ff-screen01.JPG shows this.
> As you can see, there is no error message. 

  This is the typical symptom of a program that is missing a DLL it needs
under Cygwin.  If you run "cygcheck fontforge.exe", it'll tell you what
fontforge needs and if any are missing.


    cheers,
      DaveK
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Can't think of a witty .sigline today....


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Re: Running fontforge.exe does nothing

[Christopher Faylor]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 09:32:51AM -0400, David Spector wrote:
>Perhaps the best solution would be for any information channel (like
>this mailing list) to offer a choice of either user interface.  This
>could be done in some standard Open Source way, so no organization
>hosting a channel would have to do any additional programming.

That sounds like quite a bit of work for an administrator (i.e, me) both
in terms of setup and in ongoing maintenance.

Lots of projects use mailing lists so we'll be sticking with mailing
lists for the foreseeable future.  If that isn't acceptable then, as was
pointed out, there are other web sites which provide a web interface.

cgf

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Re: Running fontforge.exe does nothing

[Larry Hall (Cygwin)]

On 06/25/2008, David Spector wrote:
> Larry,
> 
> Thanks for the info. I think the maintainer of fontforge should have added 
> it to the cygwin setup as a standard package, with the appropriate 
> dependencies. That would have avoided the problem that I had (and more 
> people in the future will probably have with installing fontforge on 
> Windows). 

Agreed.  We encourage this as well.  It helps eliminate confusion.  And
while we highly encourage folks packaging things for Cygwin to become a
Cygwin maintainer so their offerrings become part of the distribution,
some have chosen not to do this but to still package things in a setup-
compatible way.  While this is not ideal, it does make it easier for
users to point 'setup.exe' to these other servers and install packages
directly from these servers, just like any other mirror.  If fontforge
was packaged and served this way, it very likely would have been easier
for you too.

-- 
Larry Hall                              http://www.rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
216 Dalton Rd.                          (508) 893-9889 - FAX
Holliston, MA 01746

_____________________________________________________________________

A: Yes.
 > Q: Are you sure?
 >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
 >>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?

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Re: Running fontforge.exe does nothing

[David Spector]

Thanks for your replies.

Larry,

Thanks for the info. I think the maintainer of 
fontforge should have added it to the cygwin setup as 
a standard package, with the appropriate dependencies. 
That would have avoided the problem that I had (and 
more people in the future will probably have with 
installing fontforge on Windows).

Brian,

Thanks for your thoughtful analysis of email vs. Web 
forum as methods for discussing things. I agree with 
some of your points, but not with others. Since I am 
opposed to flame wars in a realtime information 
channel like this one, let me just say that I disagree 
but respect your position, and leave it there.

Perhaps the best solution would be for any information 
channel (like this mailing list) to offer a choice of 
either user interface. This could be done in some 
standard Open Source way, so no organization hosting a 
channel would have to do any additional programming.

I consider this thread as completed, with thanks again 
to David Korn for his great help.

David Spector


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Re: Running fontforge.exe does nothing

[Larry Hall (Cygwin)]

David Spector wrote:
> Dave and Ralph,
> 
> Thanks for your quick responses and help.
> 
> That did it. I can now run fontforge. Thanks again!
> 
> (Surely cygwin packaging could have been done similar to the Make model 
> so a single "install the latest fontforge" command would automatically 
> install cygwin, x windows, and all necessary libraries, with nothing 
> unnecesary? It seems weird to have to spend hours of realtime to get the 
> advice necessary to get an ordinary program running, not to mention 
> having to use two different diagnostic tools, cygcheck and the module 
> search page.)

Cygwin packaging is "done similar to the Make model" in that packages
know what their dependencies are and will automatically add those to
the list of packages to install.

I'm not sure where you got "fontforge" but it's not part of what's
distributed with Cygwin.  If you visited <http://cygwin.com/packages/>
and searched for it, this would be evident to you.  The fact that some
external source for 'fontforge' does not magically do what you want
with 'setup.exe' should not be that surprising to you, at least once
you armed with the knowledge of what you're doing.

As for the using both <http://cygwin.com/packages/> and 'cygcheck', once
you have 'cygcheck', you don't need <http://cygwin.com/packages/>.  But
the latter is nice when you don't have the former.  And actually, 'cygcheck
-p' just wraps the web functionality into a convenient command-line tool.
So there's really nothing weird about it.

-- 
Larry Hall                              http://www.rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
216 Dalton Rd.                          (508) 893-9889 - FAX
Holliston, MA 01746

_____________________________________________________________________

A: Yes.
 > Q: Are you sure?
 >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
 >>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?

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Re: Running fontforge.exe does nothing

[Brian Dessent]

David Spector wrote:

> I'm having trouble using setup.exe. It seems to want
> to download all sorts of software I'm not interested
> in by default. Example: ghostscript, which I already
> have installed under Windows.

Packages have dependencies.  When you select one package, setup adds all
the other packages that are required for proper operation of that
package.  If it selected ghostscript, it's because you've selected a
package (possibly indirectly) that is listed as requiring ghostscript. 
If you try to second guess these dependencies you end up with a broken
system where trying to run a command results in nothing happening
because of missing DLLs, which is the original problem that brought you
here in the first place.

> I can't find any way to install only the libpng12 and
> libxml2 packages without having to expand then check
> and uncheck hundreds of individual entries.

Again, if you try to second guess setup you'll just end up with a broken
system.  If it selects a package for installation that means something
indicates that it's necessary for proper operation.

> (I won't waste space including your message of June
> 24, 2008 1:40 PM, since it's in the archive. Why does
> cygwin use the mailing list approach, instead of an
> online forum? Seems awkward,

Oh, where to begin.

Email is flexible.  You can read messages using your choice of program,
from full client (Outlook, Thunderbird, Kmail) to text mode client
(emacs, mutt, pine, elm) to webmail (hotmail, gmail, etc) to mobile
phones, and so on.  With a web forum, you get precisely one UI with no
alternatives.  If I find the forum admin's choice of colors or font size
objectionable I have no choice, whereas I can configure my email client
as I wish.  I can filter/sort/organize the messages as I wish according
to arbitrarily complex rules, whereas forums give few options.  And I
cringe when thinking of having to compose messages in a crappy little
web browser form, compared to using a full fledged text editor.

Email is distributed.  When I receive the copy of an email it stays in
my client until I move or delete it.  I can instantly refer to old
messages with practically zero delay, whereas with web forums there is a
page load delay for every page, not to mention that there's not even a
possibility of using web forums offline.

Email has real threads (a tree) when used in conjunction with a real
client, not a flat list of messages.

Email is mirrored.  With web forums, the messages live in exactly one
place and are hard or impossible to mirror by third parties without
database access.  If that one site ever goes down, the content usually
dies with it.  Mailing lists are archived widely by disparate parties
and tend to live on forever regardless of whether the original host
still exists.  Examples: <http://marc.info/> and
<http://www.mail-archive.com/>.

Email is fast.  It's pure text.  There are no annoying smileys, avatars,
obnoxious flashing banner ads, stylesheets, javascript, etc.  And
mercifully on this list there is no HTML either.

Email is a push not a pull medium.  There's no refreshing of a page to
see if someone replied, you get a message delivered when it's sent.

Email is universal.  You can CC multiple lists/projects and multiple
recipients, because practically every open source project has a mailing
list.  With web forums, you are restricted to only those forums on that
particular board.  There is no choice of crossposting to other boards
and having replies work in a sensible manner; every community is its own
little walled garden.  There are countless various different and
incompatible forum scripts/software, none of which can communicate; but
email is standard.

Email tends to be treated with a more mature attitude.  For the most
part people use real names and they communicate in proper English with
complete sentences and proper grammar.  Web forums tend to attract the
"LOL OMG WTF!!!!!!!!!! :smiley:" kind of useless lamer.

Email can be easily gatewayed to other formats.  If you want to read the
mailing list like a web forum, you can:
<http://www.nabble.com/Cygwin-f12165.html>.  If you want to read it as a
newsgroup, you can: <nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.cygwin>.  If you
want to read it as a blog, you can:
<http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.os.cygwin>.  And so on with RSS, etc.  But
a web forum is inflexible and static, its interface is totally the mercy
of the script used and site admin.

> since we have to receive
> all messages instead of subscribing to or browsing the
> categories or threads in which we are interested.)

No, you don't.  You can simply send a message to the list and request to
be CC:d on replies.  You needn't subscribe and receive everything.

Brian

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Re: Running fontforge.exe does nothing

[David Spector]

Dave and Ralph,

Thanks for your quick responses and help.

That did it. I can now run fontforge. Thanks again!

(Surely cygwin packaging could have been done similar 
to the Make model so a single "install the latest 
fontforge" command would automatically install cygwin, 
x windows, and all necessary libraries, with nothing 
unnecesary? It seems weird to have to spend hours of 
realtime to get the advice necessary to get an 
ordinary program running, not to mention having to use 
two different diagnostic tools, cygcheck and the 
module search page.)

David


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Re: Running fontforge.exe does nothing

[Ralph Hempel]

David Spector wrote:

> (I won't waste space including your message of June 24, 2008 1:40 PM, 
> since it's in the archive. Why does cygwin use the mailing list 
> approach, instead of an online forum? Seems awkward, since we have to 
> receive all messages instead of subscribing to or browsing the 
> categories or threads in which we are interested.)

That's funny, I feel the same way about browsing messages
on forums :-)

Whenever I have a chioce, I use email instead of forums precicely
because I get all the messages, I can sort them or ignore them
as I choose, and I don't need to waste time with a clumsy
web based reader that throws ads in as well...

Ralph

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RE: Running fontforge.exe does nothing

[Dave Korn]

David Spector wrote on 25 June 2008 00:37:

> I'm having trouble using setup.exe. It seems to want
> to download all sorts of software I'm not interested
> in by default. Example: ghostscript, which I already
> have installed under Windows.
> 
> I can't find any way to install only the libpng12 and
> libxml2 packages without having to expand then check
> and uncheck hundreds of individual entries.
> 
> Is there a shortcut way of setting all the checkboxes
> to "don't download", so I can just download these two
> packages?

  Yep: see the radio buttons at the top of the package chooser?  Click
"Keep".

> (I won't waste space including your message of June
> 24, 2008 1:40 PM, since it's in the archive. Why does
> cygwin use the mailing list approach, instead of an
> online forum? Seems awkward, since we have to receive
> all messages instead of subscribing to or browsing the
> categories or threads in which we are interested.)

  Lack of demand, really.  There's always gmane and nabble for those who
want an alternative interface.

    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....


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Re: Running fontforge.exe does nothing

[David Spector]

Dave,

Thanks for your quick and helpful response. As you 
requested, I'll keep this discussion on the list.

I'm having trouble using setup.exe. It seems to want 
to download all sorts of software I'm not interested 
in by default. Example: ghostscript, which I already 
have installed under Windows.

I can't find any way to install only the libpng12 and 
libxml2 packages without having to expand then check 
and uncheck hundreds of individual entries.

Is there a shortcut way of setting all the checkboxes 
to "don't download", so I can just download these two 
packages?

(I won't waste space including your message of June 
24, 2008 1:40 PM, since it's in the archive. Why does 
cygwin use the mailing list approach, instead of an 
online forum? Seems awkward, since we have to receive 
all messages instead of subscribing to or browsing the 
categories or threads in which we are interested.)

David


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RE: Running fontforge.exe does nothing

[Dave "No, not that one" Korn]

David Spector wrote on 24 June 2008 13:42:

> Dave,
> 
> Thank you for your prompt and excellent response,
> which got lost somehow before I could see it in my
> incoming mail.

  NP, but can we keep this on the list please?  (See
http://cygwin.com/acronyms/#PPIOSPE for a few good reasons why to keep
discussion threads in the open instead of private mail.  For a start,
someone else might have had time sooner than me to answer this question...)

> When I follow your instructions, I find the following
> missing DLLs:
> 
> cygpng12.dll and cygxml2-2.dll
> 
> The fact that these start with "cyg" might indicate
> that these are part of cygwin. 

  Absolutely so.  In order to find out what cygwin package contains any
given file, you plug its name into the search box at
http://cygwin.com/packages/.  Doing so tells us that cygpng12.dll is part of
the libpng12 package, and that cygxml2-2.dll is part of the libxml2 package.

> Since I downloaded
> cygwin from the official site (or one of its mirrors)
> and followed the installation instructions, I have no
> idea what to do next. Any suggestions would be
> welcome.

  You'll need to re-run setup.exe just like you did when you followed the
fontforge install instructions (assuming you referred to
http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/ms-install.html), only this time select the
libpng12 and libxml2 packges.  They'll both be in the Libs category, rather
than the X11 category that you were told to look under last time.

> BTW, are you the famous David Korn who developed the
> Unix Korn shell at Bell Labs?

  :)  Get asked that a lot.  I refer you to my "From:" line!


    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....


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RE: Running fontforge.exe does nothing

[Dave Korn]

David Spector wrote on 24 June 2008 12:49:

> Does anyone have an idea of what I could have done
> wrong?

  Failing to notice when I answered this question yesterday?  ;-)

http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2008-06/msg00443.html


    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....


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Running fontforge.exe does nothing

[David Spector]

Hi.

I've installed the latest cygwin on my Windows XP Home
system named "SYS3", and it appears to run perfectly.
I have plenty of disk and memory space.

www.springtimesoftware.com/ff-screen02.JPG shows the
result of typing xinit. (Typing startx is similar for
me, except that the created X window is smaller.)

I installed the latest fontforge, following the
official instructions.

When I run fontforge in the X window, nothing happens.
www.springtimesoftware.com/ff-screen01.JPG shows this.
As you can see, there is no error message. (I would
have thought this was a fontforge question, but I was
asked to post it here.)

Does anyone have an idea of what I could have done
wrong?

I should say I know next to nothing about cygwin,
fontforge, or Linux. I'm only interested in running
fontforge, which requires cygwin. I believe lots of
people do run fontforge on Windows, so an answer may
be relevant to people other than myself.

David


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