RE: time to download

RE: time to download

[Jean Jordaan]

Hi list

I'm the sole Cygwin user in my group, and this thread has touched a
nerve.

From: Warren Young [ mailto:warren@etr-usa.com ]
> "Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc)" wrote:
> > 
> > If you do download some minimal set though and you have any trouble
using
> > Cygwin, the first thing you should do is download and install the rest
of
> > the packages ...
> 
> I suppose that's fine for the lucky folk behind a big pipe, but [...]
> it might be useful to have two vetted configurations, "minimal user"
> and "minimal developer", 

I heartily second this motion. I'm using sitecopy [1] to maintain a
remote site, and would like to install it for a colleague. I'm compiling
sitecopy from source under Cygwin. However, my colleague would not take
kindly to the idea of a multi-megabyte install for the sake of running
an executable of less than a megabyte.

I do appreciate that the likelihood of this happening anytime soon is 
not high .. 

Regards, 
-- 
Jean Jordaan   --    technical writer    --    Mosaic Software

[1] http://www.lyra.org/sitecopy/

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Re: time to download

[Erdely, Michael]

> I'm the sole Cygwin user in my group, and this thread has touched a
> nerve.
????

> I heartily second this motion. I'm using sitecopy [1] to maintain a
> remote site, and would like to install it for a colleague. I'm compiling
> sitecopy from source under Cygwin. However, my colleague would not take
> kindly to the idea of a multi-megabyte install for the sake of running
> an executable of less than a megabyte.
I have no experience with sitecopy, but it's already been ported:
http://www.lyra.org/sitecopy/cygwin/
In general, when you just want to run one Cygwin-ported tool, all you really
need is the Cygwin1.dll file somewhere in your path and the tool.  Take a
look at the bootstrap.zip
( ftp://ftp.freesoftware.com/pub/sourceware/cygwin/latest/bootstrap.zip ).

> I do appreciate that the likelihood of this happening anytime soon is
> not high ..
??????

-ME

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean Jordaan" <Jean@mosaicsoftware.com>
To: "Cygwin-L" <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 2:21 AM
Subject: RE: time to download

<snip>

>
> Regards,
> --
> Jean Jordaan   --    technical writer    --    Mosaic Software
>
> [1] http://www.lyra.org/sitecopy/
>
> --
> Want to unsubscribe from this list?
> Check out: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
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>


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Re: time to download

[Erdely, Michael]

Oh... and downloading the sitecopy source, running "./configure", then
running "make", then running "make install" worked fine.

-ME

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erdely, Michael" <mike@erdelynet.com>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 2:37 AM
Subject: Re: time to download


> > I'm the sole Cygwin user in my group, and this thread has touched a
> > nerve.
> ????
>
> > I heartily second this motion. I'm using sitecopy [1] to maintain a
> > remote site, and would like to install it for a colleague. I'm compiling
> > sitecopy from source under Cygwin. However, my colleague would not take
> > kindly to the idea of a multi-megabyte install for the sake of running
> > an executable of less than a megabyte.
> I have no experience with sitecopy, but it's already been ported:
> http://www.lyra.org/sitecopy/cygwin/
> In general, when you just want to run one Cygwin-ported tool, all you
really
> need is the Cygwin1.dll file somewhere in your path and the tool.  Take a
> look at the bootstrap.zip
> ( ftp://ftp.freesoftware.com/pub/sourceware/cygwin/latest/bootstrap.zip ).
>
> > I do appreciate that the likelihood of this happening anytime soon is
> > not high ..
> ??????
>
> -ME
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jean Jordaan" <Jean@mosaicsoftware.com>
> To: "Cygwin-L" <cygwin@cygwin.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 2:21 AM
> Subject: RE: time to download
>
> <snip>
>
> >
> > Regards,
> > --
> > Jean Jordaan   --    technical writer    --    Mosaic Software
> >
> > [1] http://www.lyra.org/sitecopy/
> >
> > --
> > Want to unsubscribe from this list?
> > Check out: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
> >
> >
>
>
> --
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Re: time to download

[Christopher Faylor]

On Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 02:44:13AM -0500, Erdely, Michael wrote:
>Oh... and downloading the sitecopy source, running "./configure", then
>running "make", then running "make install" worked fine.

And, additionally, Jean, if you have other needs then think about
CONTRIBUTING to the project rather than just sucking up whatever is
available on cygwin.com and sadly sighing when things aren't quite what
you want.

cgf

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Erdely, Michael" <mike@erdelynet.com>
>To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
>Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 2:37 AM
>Subject: Re: time to download
>
>
>> > I'm the sole Cygwin user in my group, and this thread has touched a
>> > nerve.
>> ????
>>
>> > I heartily second this motion. I'm using sitecopy [1] to maintain a
>> > remote site, and would like to install it for a colleague. I'm compiling
>> > sitecopy from source under Cygwin. However, my colleague would not take
>> > kindly to the idea of a multi-megabyte install for the sake of running
>> > an executable of less than a megabyte.
>> I have no experience with sitecopy, but it's already been ported:
>> http://www.lyra.org/sitecopy/cygwin/
>> In general, when you just want to run one Cygwin-ported tool, all you
>really
>> need is the Cygwin1.dll file somewhere in your path and the tool.  Take a
>> look at the bootstrap.zip
>> ( ftp://ftp.freesoftware.com/pub/sourceware/cygwin/latest/bootstrap.zip ).
>>
>> > I do appreciate that the likelihood of this happening anytime soon is
>> > not high ..
>> ??????
>>
>> -ME
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jean Jordaan" <Jean@mosaicsoftware.com>
>> To: "Cygwin-L" <cygwin@cygwin.com>
>> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 2:21 AM
>> Subject: RE: time to download
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > --
>> > Jean Jordaan   --    technical writer    --    Mosaic Software
>> >
>> > [1] http://www.lyra.org/sitecopy/
>> >
>> > --
>> > Want to unsubscribe from this list?
>> > Check out: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Want to unsubscribe from this list?
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>>
>
>
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Re: time to download

[Barry Buchbinder]

I've got just executables.  They take up about 67 M.  Since I've got the
"current" archive and often, but not always, one "previous" archive, the
real number for just one copy of the executables will be something more than
half that.  Say ~40 M?  But since the files are split into packages, one can
do stop in the middle without needing to start all over again.

- Barry Buchbinder

To: "murthy ramana" <rmyadla at hotmail dot com>,cygwin at cygwin dot com 
     Subject: Re: time to download 
     From: "Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc)" <lhall at rfk dot com> 
     Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 16:29:11 -0500 

At 04:20 PM 2/9/2001, murthy ramana wrote:
>justi need to know how much time will it take to down load cygwin through
>56kb
>modem ?

What I downloaded today includes source and encompasses both the latest and
contrib branches.  It occupies about 370MB on my disk, if that's helpful for
you.  I'm sure the lion's share of that is the source, which you may want to
skip (initially)...

Larry Hall                              lhall@rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      http://www.rfk.com
118 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
Holliston, MA 01746                     (508) 893-9889 - FAX

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Re: time to download

[Christopher Faylor]

Hmm.  Maybe this should be a FAQ entry?

I hesitate to do this because it is going to be wrong quickly.

What would be *really* nice is to add this to setup.exe itself.  If there was
a screen which showed download sizes that would be interesting.  Getting
installed sizes would be very hard, of course.

Does anyone want to provide a patch which makes setup.exe show download
bytes and estimated download times for various connections?

cgf

On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 04:56:16PM -0500, Barry Buchbinder wrote:
>I've got just executables.  They take up about 67 M.  Since I've got the
>"current" archive and often, but not always, one "previous" archive, the
>real number for just one copy of the executables will be something more than
>half that.  Say ~40 M?  But since the files are split into packages, one can
>do stop in the middle without needing to start all over again.
>
>- Barry Buchbinder
>
>To: "murthy ramana" <rmyadla at hotmail dot com>,cygwin at cygwin dot com 
>     Subject: Re: time to download 
>     From: "Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc)" <lhall at rfk dot com> 
>     Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 16:29:11 -0500 
>
>At 04:20 PM 2/9/2001, murthy ramana wrote:
>>justi need to know how much time will it take to down load cygwin through
>>56kb
>>modem ?
>
>What I downloaded today includes source and encompasses both the latest and
>contrib branches.  It occupies about 370MB on my disk, if that's helpful for
>you.  I'm sure the lion's share of that is the source, which you may want to
>skip (initially)...
>
>Larry Hall                              lhall@rfk.com
>RFK Partners, Inc.                      http://www.rfk.com
>118 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
>Holliston, MA 01746                     (508) 893-9889 - FAX
>
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time to download

[murthy ramana]

justi need to know how much time will it take to down load cygwin through
56kb
modem ?

thanks

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Re: time to download

[Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc)]

At 04:20 PM 2/9/2001, murthy ramana wrote:
>justi need to know how much time will it take to down load cygwin through
>56kb
>modem ?



What I downloaded today includes source and encompasses both the latest
and contrib branches.  It occupies about 370MB on my disk, if that's helpful
for you.  I'm sure the lion's share of that is the source, which you may want
to skip (initially)...



Larry Hall                              lhall@rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      http://www.rfk.com
118 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
Holliston, MA 01746                     (508) 893-9889 - FAX



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Re: time to download

[Warren Young]

murthy ramana wrote:
> 
> justi need to know how much time will it take to down load cygwin through
> 56kb modem ?

All the binary packages together are about 25 MB, but you don't have to
download absolutely everything.  There was a post on this list in the
past day or so that gave lists of minimum package lists for both
"regular user use" and "developer use".  

Since Cygwin's setup program makes it very easy to incrementally
download packages, you might choose to download the "minimum user"
configuration, and then later download individual packages as you need
them.
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Re: time to download

[Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc)]

At 05:05 PM 2/9/2001, Warren Young wrote:
>murthy ramana wrote:
> > 
> > justi need to know how much time will it take to down load cygwin through
> > 56kb modem ?
>
>All the binary packages together are about 25 MB, but you don't have to
>download absolutely everything.  There was a post on this list in the
>past day or so that gave lists of minimum package lists for both
>"regular user use" and "developer use".  
>
>Since Cygwin's setup program makes it very easy to incrementally
>download packages, you might choose to download the "minimum user"
>configuration, and then later download individual packages as you need
>them.



If you do download some minimal set though and you have any trouble using 
Cygwin, the first thing you should do is download and install the rest of 
the packages (well, from latest anyway - you don't have to have those from
contrib).  Don't bother the list with questions about why things don't work
until you're sure you have a complete and proper installation, since that's 
the first thing you'll be asked when you make a query to the list.;-)



Larry Hall                              lhall@rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      http://www.rfk.com
118 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
Holliston, MA 01746                     (508) 893-9889 - FAX



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Re: time to download

[Warren Young]

"Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc)" wrote:
> 
> If you do download some minimal set though and you have any trouble using
> Cygwin, the first thing you should do is download and install the rest of
> the packages ...

I suppose that's fine for the lucky folk behind a big pipe, but Cygwin
these days has added several packages that no user will need to make
their system work: they should only be downloaded on an as-needed
basis.  Examples: openssh, squid, mutt, perl, zip/unzip, ncftp...  These
are all useful packages, of course, but they're "leaf nodes" on the
Cygwin dependency tree.

On this note, it might be useful to have two vetted configurations,
"minimal user" and "minimal developer", which each do what you'd
expect.  The third would be "custom", which would take you to the
current package selection screen.  I think we could get "minimal user"
down to 5 MB or so.  Certainly less than 10.
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Re: time to download

[Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc)]

At 04:06 AM 2/10/2001, Warren Young wrote:
>"Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc)" wrote:
> > 
> > If you do download some minimal set though and you have any trouble using
> > Cygwin, the first thing you should do is download and install the rest of
> > the packages ...
>
>I suppose that's fine for the lucky folk behind a big pipe, but Cygwin
>these days has added several packages that no user will need to make
>their system work: they should only be downloaded on an as-needed
>basis.  Examples: openssh, squid, mutt, perl, zip/unzip, ncftp...  These
>are all useful packages, of course, but they're "leaf nodes" on the
>Cygwin dependency tree.


With the exception of openssh, all of the packages you list here are from
the "contrib" directory, which I noted were optional.


>On this note, it might be useful to have two vetted configurations,
>"minimal user" and "minimal developer", which each do what you'd
>expect.  The third would be "custom", which would take you to the
>current package selection screen.  I think we could get "minimal user"
>down to 5 MB or so.  Certainly less than 10.


It certainly would be beneficial to have some way of determining
dependencies so that a smaller set could be downloaded by those who want
just that.  Figuring out the dependencies among all the packages is 
tractable but not simple.  Unless someone volunteers to do this, I don't
see this happening soon.  In the meantime, whether its practical, realistic,
or desirable, downloading all packages in "latest" is the recommended way 
to get a working Cygwin environment.  As always, people are free to do as
they want but support from this list pretty much requires a known base 
installation.  Those that don't have it and report problems are always 
directed to first install everything...





Larry Hall                              lhall@rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      http://www.rfk.com
118 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
Holliston, MA 01746                     (508) 893-9889 - FAX



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Re: time to download

[Christopher Faylor]

On Sat, Feb 10, 2001 at 12:58:09PM -0500, Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc) wrote:
>It certainly would be beneficial to have some way of determining
>dependencies so that a smaller set could be downloaded by those who want
>just that.

Possibly RPM would be one way to solve this but that would be a major
change for setup.exe.

Of course, even with RPM, you still have to figure out the dependencies.
I recently installed an RPM for "bind" from rawhide.redhat.com.  The
dependency wasn't set to include one of the newer, other, bind packages,
so I spent a while trying to figure out why my domain name server wasn't
working anymore.

Anyway, I really would like someone to modify setup.exe to allow either:

1) Categorization of download packages (development, user, etc.) <easy>.

2) Interpackage dependency.  <hard>

3) Batch-mode operation. <???>

Hopefully, it is obvious to everyone that improving setup.exe is very
low on the list of Red Hat priorities for Cygwin.  I did manage to swing
a certain amount of time for DJ to work on this prior to his leaving the
group but this was a one-time thing.

We've had a lot of high-quality submissions from the net for setup.exe.
I hope that someone will be willing to take on the challenge of adding
the next level of functionality to the package.

Btw, I should mention that the licensing restrictions for setup.exe are
not exactly the same as for the Cygwin DLL and other utilities.  So far,
I have not imported setup.exe into our internal tree and have kept the
program as a strictly net offering.  That means that I don't have to ask
people to sign a release.  I just need an email assurance that there
employer disclaims all ownership to whatever they are working on and
allows them to put the code into setup.exe with no strings attached.

cgf

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Re: time to download

[Tim Prince]

Your question reminds me a little bit of the recent news post on ZD,
implying that broad-band access has become widespread and everyone has
56k access, just because no one buys a modem which isn't labeled at
least 56k.  What difference does it make whether your modem is labeled
56k, when it could be a winmodem or you could be using an ordinary phone
line?

Yes, it's entirely feasible to do a net install of cygwin on a 24k
connection with a 56k modem, or even a winmodem, if you can let it run a
few hours.  I've done it several times.  Winmodems can go 48k on a
perfect line, but not on a 24k connection.  If your connection speed
varies, don't start until you get at least a 24k connection.  cygwin has
about the best automatic restart I've seen.
----- Original Message -----
From: "murthy ramana" <rmyadla@hotmail.com>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 9:20 PM
Subject: time to download


> justi need to know how much time will it take to down load cygwin
through
> 56kb
> modem ?
>
> thanks
>
>
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http://www.hotmail.com .
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