* no more package moratorium? @ 2001-11-02 12:06 Gareth Pearce 2001-11-02 12:19 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Gareth Pearce 0 siblings, 2 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Gareth Pearce @ 2001-11-02 12:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin subject asks the question... I gathered that the release of new setup was going to bring the moratorium down ... if so I might start considering packaging up nano, assuming I can work out how to patch it consistantly... so umm anyone want to give an answer? Gareth _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-02 12:06 no more package moratorium? Gareth Pearce @ 2001-11-02 12:19 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Corinna Vinschen 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Gareth Pearce 1 sibling, 2 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Robert Collins @ 2001-11-02 12:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Gareth Pearce, cygwin That seems a reasonable thing to me. It does raise an interesting point: who, when, and how, do new packages get approved? (I don't mean the physical quality of the packaging either :}). Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gareth Pearce" <tilps@hotmail.com> To: <cygwin@cygwin.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 7:25 AM Subject: no more package moratorium? > > subject asks the question... I gathered that the release of new setup was > going to bring the moratorium down ... if so I might start considering > packaging up nano, assuming I can work out how to patch it consistantly... > > so umm anyone want to give an answer? > > Gareth > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > -- > Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple > Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html > Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html > FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ > > -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-02 12:19 ` Robert Collins @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Corinna Vinschen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Robert Collins @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Gareth Pearce, cygwin That seems a reasonable thing to me. It does raise an interesting point: who, when, and how, do new packages get approved? (I don't mean the physical quality of the packaging either :}). Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gareth Pearce" <tilps@hotmail.com> To: <cygwin@cygwin.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 7:25 AM Subject: no more package moratorium? > > subject asks the question... I gathered that the release of new setup was > going to bring the moratorium down ... if so I might start considering > packaging up nano, assuming I can work out how to patch it consistantly... > > so umm anyone want to give an answer? > > Gareth > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > -- > Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple > Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html > Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html > FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ > > -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-02 12:19 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Corinna Vinschen 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen 2001-11-11 8:26 ` no more package moratorium? Robert Collins 1 sibling, 2 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Corinna Vinschen @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 06:29:33PM +1100, Robert Collins wrote: > That seems a reasonable thing to me. Yeah, I think we will drop the package moratorium in the next days. > It does raise an interesting point: who, when, and how, do new packages > get approved? That's a problem when getting lots of new packages. The forum for discussion and the approval process is cygwin-apps. However, it's not the forum to send loads of tar archives so we will have to find some standarized way as, just as an example: - Potential contributor announces on cygwin-apps that s/he wants to contribute package `foo' with a short description what the package does and what has been done to fullfil Cygwin requirements (textmode/binmode issues, sending a setup.hint file which shows the dependencies to other packages, etc.) - cygwin-developers discusses if the package should become part of the distro and chooses a person from cygwin-developers as approver. - The contributor gets asked to upload the package (bin+src tar.bz2 archives) to an upload area on cygwin.com or by sending it to the approver. That's the approver's choice. - When the approver thinks the package is ok, the contributor is (obligatory!) asked if s/he's willing to maintain the package in future and if s/he's willing to announce officially when s/he's not anymore willing to maintain the package. - The package gets uploaded and the contributor becomes official Cygwin maintainer for that package. - When the contributor/maintainer announces to drop maintainership, we will ask for another person willing to maintain the package further. If we don't find another person within, say, three months, the package will be removed from the distro. Something like that. Corinna -- Corinna Vinschen Please, send mails regarding Cygwin to Cygwin Developer mailto:cygwin@cygwin.com Red Hat, Inc. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Corinna Vinschen @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj ` (2 more replies) 2001-11-11 8:26 ` no more package moratorium? Robert Collins 1 sibling, 3 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Jan Nieuwenhuizen @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Collins; +Cc: Corinna Vinschen Robert Collins <robert dot collins at itdomain dot com dot au> writes: > I think the process for that part should be something like > > sponsor (for new maintainers) or maintainer (2nd package or new > version > of existing) places the packages files at a URL. > They tell someone from <list of maintainers with write access>. > <someone> uploads to cygwin.com. > > If there is _any_ doubt about the package quality, upload it as > experimental. Wait 3 weeks, and if there are no bugs reported, then > edit > setup.hint to make that new versiom current. > > Thoughts on this? What about existing packages? Specifically, it would be grand if tetex-beta would either get fixed or removed. Greetings, Jan. -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien | http://www.lilypond.org -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Markus Hoenicka [not found] ` <m3k7wr50fa.fsf@appel.lilypond.org> 2 siblings, 1 reply; 41+ messages in thread From: Stipe Tolj @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jan Nieuwenhuizen; +Cc: Robert Collins, Corinna Vinschen > What about existing packages? Specifically, it would be grand if > tetex-beta would either get fixed or removed. IMO, any "released" tagged package should have it's maintainer, who decides and tracks done error and bugs. So in ER specification we have a [package] n <-> 1 [maintainer] relation. Stipe tolj@wapme-systems.de ------------------------------------------------------------------- Wapme Systems AG Münsterstr. 248 40470 Düsseldorf Tel: +49-211-74845-0 Fax: +49-211-74845-299 E-Mail: info@wapme-systems.de Internet: http://www.wapme-systems.de ------------------------------------------------------------------- wapme.net - wherever you are -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 0 siblings, 1 reply; 41+ messages in thread From: Robert Collins @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stipe Tolj, Jan Nieuwenhuizen; +Cc: Corinna Vinschen > > What about existing packages? Specifically, it would be grand if > > tetex-beta would either get fixed or removed. > > IMO, any "released" tagged package should have it's maintainer, who > decides and tracks done error and bugs. So in ER specification we have > a [package] n <-> 1 [maintainer] relation. We have that, it's just recorded in the list archives :}. And hopefully soon to be recorded in setup.hint. IMO this should not be recorded separately from the package metadata (setup.hint). Rob -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 0 siblings, 1 reply; 41+ messages in thread From: Stipe Tolj @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Collins; +Cc: Jan Nieuwenhuizen, Corinna Vinschen > > > What about existing packages? Specifically, it would be grand if > > > tetex-beta would either get fixed or removed. > > > > IMO, any "released" tagged package should have it's maintainer, who > > decides and tracks done error and bugs. So in ER specification we have > > a [package] n <-> 1 [maintainer] relation. > > We have that, it's just recorded in the list archives :}. And hopefully > soon to be recorded in setup.hint. IMO this should not be recorded > separately from the package metadata (setup.hint). why? if the metadata is held in a database and all setup.hints are generated out of it we have no problems about consistence?! Stipe tolj@wapme-systems.de ------------------------------------------------------------------- Wapme Systems AG Münsterstr. 248 40470 Düsseldorf Tel: +49-211-74845-0 Fax: +49-211-74845-299 E-Mail: info@wapme-systems.de Internet: http://www.wapme-systems.de ------------------------------------------------------------------- wapme.net - wherever you are -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 0 siblings, 1 reply; 41+ messages in thread From: Robert Collins @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stipe Tolj; +Cc: Corinna Vinschen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stipe Tolj" <tolj@wapme-systems.de> > > why? if the metadata is held in a database and all setup.hints are > generated out of it we have no problems about consistence?! We've had that - setup.ini was the database, and updating was a PITA, because it couldn't be easily distributed. Setup.hint allows the metadata to be altered by the maintainer - without needing a central repository. Also, federating a database is _hard_. Federating package metadata by associating it with the packages is trivial. I've no objection to you generating a database from the package metadata, but it *must* be that way around. Rob -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 0 siblings, 1 reply; 41+ messages in thread From: Stipe Tolj @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Collins; +Cc: Corinna Vinschen > We've had that - setup.ini was the database, and updating was a PITA, > because it couldn't be easily distributed. Setup.hint allows the > metadata to be altered by the maintainer - without needing a central > repository. I agree, that's why I mentioned in the file conflict thread: The package maintaining system should provide _mechanisms_ to support the package maintainers. It would be easy to allow package maintainers (via HTTP basic authentification and underlying PHP application) to update the relevant information in the database. This is how my intension from the package maintaining module looks like. > Also, federating a database is _hard_. Federating package metadata by > associating it with the packages is trivial. It depends on the design of the database and the access mechanisms, IMO. Stipe tolj@wapme-systems.de ------------------------------------------------------------------- Wapme Systems AG Münsterstr. 248 40470 Düsseldorf Tel: +49-211-74845-0 Fax: +49-211-74845-299 E-Mail: info@wapme-systems.de Internet: http://www.wapme-systems.de ------------------------------------------------------------------- wapme.net - wherever you are -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Christopher Faylor 0 siblings, 2 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Robert Collins @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stipe Tolj; +Cc: Corinna Vinschen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stipe Tolj" <tolj@wapme-systems.de> > It would be easy to allow package maintainers (via HTTP basic > authentification and underlying PHP application) to update the > relevant information in the database. I'd very much doubt that Chris would be happy with http basic authentication given it's security issues, unless wrapped in SSL. And doing that takes CPU which I understand sources.redhat.com to be a little short on right now. > > Also, federating a database is _hard_. Federating package metadata by > > associating it with the packages is trivial. > > It depends on the design of the database and the access mechanisms, > IMO. Really? The replication and merge capability in oracle 8i or above, and in MSSQL 7 would do it, but even they don't address the trust issues in having a truely federated system. However, this is not my decision. I just think that a database with web interface for maintaining this data is doing it the wrong way around. A web interface to view the data yes, and Chris's package list allows that trivially. A web interface to change, don't make sense to me. However, if you can convince the other current maintainers, and are willing to completely rewrite this when setup handles embedded meta data - such as rpm has - then I won't object. Rob -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Christopher Faylor 1 sibling, 0 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Stipe Tolj @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Collins; +Cc: Corinna Vinschen > I'd very much doubt that Chris would be happy with http basic authentication > given it's security issues, unless wrapped in SSL. And doing that takes CPU > which I understand sources.redhat.com to be a little short on right now. right, SSL-enabling for webdav based uploading and package maintaince would be easily to implement. I agree with CPU time issue on sources.redhat.com, that's why I suggest an independant machine for the whole Cygwin project. > However, this is not my decision. I just think that a database with web > interface for maintaining this data is doing it the wrong way around. A web > interface to view the data yes, and Chris's package list allows that > trivially. A web interface to change, don't make sense to me. However, if > you can convince the other current maintainers, and are willing to > completely rewrite this when setup handles embedded meta data - such as rpm > has - then I won't object. Let's see how my prototype design will look like. I think it's the best way to "see" what we may do with it and then descide if it is considered usefull. Stipe tolj@wapme-systems.de ------------------------------------------------------------------- Wapme Systems AG Münsterstr. 248 40470 Düsseldorf Tel: +49-211-74845-0 Fax: +49-211-74845-299 E-Mail: info@wapme-systems.de Internet: http://www.wapme-systems.de ------------------------------------------------------------------- wapme.net - wherever you are -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Christopher Faylor 1 sibling, 0 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Christopher Faylor @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 12:09:34PM +1100, Robert Collins wrote: >And doing that takes CPU which I understand sources.redhat.com to be a >little short on right now. I'm actually, this very minute, putting the finishing touches on a hardware upgrade proposal. It'll be a very nice machine if I can get what I want. It's interesting that CPU/disk became an issue as soon as we upgraded the internet connection. But, the system is definitely pegged right now. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Markus Hoenicka 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj [not found] ` <m3k7wr50fa.fsf@appel.lilypond.org> 2 siblings, 1 reply; 41+ messages in thread From: Markus Hoenicka @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin What is wrong with tetex-beta? Could you explain what exactly should be fixed? Please try to provide useful bug reports. "Is broke, please fix" does not count as useful, IMHO. regards, Markus Jan Nieuwenhuizen writes: > What about existing packages? Specifically, it would be grand if > tetex-beta would either get fixed or removed. -- Markus Hoenicka, PhD UT Houston Medical School Dept. of Integrative Biology and Pharmacology 6431 Fannin MSB4.114 Houston, TX 77030 (713) 500-6313, -7477 (713) 500-7444 (fax) Markus.Hoenicka@uth.tmc.edu http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hoenicka_markus/ -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Markus Hoenicka @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Charles Wilson 0 siblings, 1 reply; 41+ messages in thread From: Stipe Tolj @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Markus Hoenicka; +Cc: cygwin > What is wrong with tetex-beta? Could you explain what exactly should > be fixed? Please try to provide useful bug reports. "Is broke, please > fix" does not count as useful, IMHO. another issue I have proposed -> a simple bug tracking integration for the package maintainers via the web site. Chris, I would suggest to setup a prototype on a serperate machine and have the audience pickle on it. It should include a) package maintainance mechanisms b) simple bug reporting and tracking for single packages/maintainers mechanisms I vote for a PHP based application running a MySQL or PostgreSQL db. Stipe tolj@wapme-systems.de ------------------------------------------------------------------- Wapme Systems AG Münsterstr. 248 40470 Düsseldorf Tel: +49-211-74845-0 Fax: +49-211-74845-299 E-Mail: info@wapme-systems.de Internet: http://www.wapme-systems.de ------------------------------------------------------------------- wapme.net - wherever you are -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Charles Wilson 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Christopher Faylor 0 siblings, 1 reply; 41+ messages in thread From: Charles Wilson @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stipe Tolj; +Cc: Markus Hoenicka, cygwin Stipe Tolj wrote > another issue I have proposed -> a simple bug tracking integration for > the package maintainers via the web site. IIRC, there was a problem with GNATS on sources.redhat.com where the proper mailing lists weren't being Cc'ed email that was sent out. Was that ever fixed, Chris? --Chuck -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Charles Wilson @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Christopher Faylor 0 siblings, 0 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Christopher Faylor @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Thu, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:15:55PM -0500, Charles Wilson wrote: >Stipe Tolj wrote >>another issue I have proposed -> a simple bug tracking integration for >>the package maintainers via the web site. > >IIRC, there was a problem with GNATS on sources.redhat.com where >the proper mailing lists weren't being Cc'ed email that was sent out. >Was that ever fixed, Chris? There was a lot of discussion about this in the overseers list. I think that everything is ok now. We upgraded GNATS in July or so and one of our local mods got dropped. That ended up causing strange email bounces, in certain situations, when reporting bugs. I think it's fixed now, but I'll feel better about it after a week or so has gone by with no complaints. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <m3k7wr50fa.fsf@appel.lilypond.org>]
* tetex-beta nitpicking [WAS: Re: no more package moratorium?] [not found] ` <m3k7wr50fa.fsf@appel.lilypond.org> @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Markus Hoenicka 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Markus Hoenicka @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jan Nieuwenhuizen; +Cc: cygwin Jan Nieuwenhuizen writes: > http://lilypond.org/wiki/?TroubleshootingWindows). We currently use > and distribute MikTeX, because it works reliable, and right out of the > box. You can't even install MiKTeX unless you run the latest Windows or the latest Internet Explorer. > But I'd much rather we could use tetex. Using MikTeX from > cygwin is `cygpath hell'. I have instructions about installing a SGML system on Windows which also uses TeX for the printable output: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hoenicka_markus/cygbook1.html I provide a very simple shell script (for SGML->PS/PDF transformations) that takes care of the 'cygpath hell'. It is not that hard. It used to work for MiKTeX and works now for fpTeX and for Cygwin teTeX (and even for TeX on Unix platforms). > > > Please try to provide useful bug reports. "Is broke, please > > fix" does not count as useful, IMHO. > > Tetex-beta, as installed by setup.exe (v1.3.5) fails the first simple > LaTeX test: > > tineke@DOOS ~$ latex sample2e > This is TeX, Version 3.14159 (Web2C 7.3.3) > I can't find the format file `latex.fmt'! > tineke@DOOS $ uname -a > CYGWIN_98-4.10 DOOS 1.3.5(0.47/3/2) 2001-11-13 23:16 i586 unknown > Did you install the teTeX texmf tree? Just installing Tetex-beta is not enough, as explained by the Tetex-beta readme. This was also discussed on this list right after the first release of this package. regards, Markus -- Markus Hoenicka, PhD UT Houston Medical School Dept. of Integrative Biology and Pharmacology 6431 Fannin MSB4.114 Houston, TX 77030 (713) 500-6313, -7477 (713) 500-7444 (fax) Markus.Hoenicka@uth.tmc.edu http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hoenicka_markus/ -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: tetex-beta nitpicking [WAS: Re: no more package moratorium?] 2001-11-11 8:26 ` tetex-beta nitpicking [WAS: Re: no more package moratorium?] Markus Hoenicka @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Markus Hoenicka 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Charles Wilson 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Charles Wilson 2 siblings, 2 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Jan Nieuwenhuizen @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Markus Hoenicka; +Cc: cygwin Markus Hoenicka <Markus.Hoenicka@uth.tmc.edu> writes: > You can't even install MiKTeX unless you run the latest Windows or the > latest Internet Explorer. Strange, we haven't had any complaints. It seemst that MiKTeX installs and runs flawlessly. Note that, of course, MiKTeX is packaged in a tarball and installed through setup.exe. Maybe our Windows users are all using that latest software? > I have instructions about installing a SGML system on Windows which > also uses TeX for the printable output: > > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hoenicka_markus/cygbook1.html Thanks, but I don't think that would do. Currently, windows users run setup.exe, and they get a working LilyPond environment. We get lots of questions and complaints if it doesn't work that way. Even if there are simple, step by step, instructions on what to do after running setup.exe. > I provide a very simple shell script (for SGML->PS/PDF > transformations) that takes care of the 'cygpath hell'. It is not > that hard. Yes, we distribute shell scripts too, that cygpath the tex/mf environment settings. But this is all rather ugly. mktextfm and such don't really work, when triggered from the kpathsea lib. > It used to work for MiKTeX and works now for fpTeX and for > Cygwin teTeX (and even for TeX on Unix platforms). Ah, but then you know how difficult it can be to write or debug a texmf.conf, and why you don't want users that haven't ever heard of TeX or environment variables (or tar for that matter) to even have to touch a tex installation? (Unless you live from giving support, perhaps :-) > Did you install the teTeX texmf tree? No, I installed tetex-beta, that's all the tetex that setup.exe will install, right? That's why we still have to distribute and maitain our own, modified setup.exe and repository (apart from the just lifted package moratorium). > Just installing Tetex-beta is not enough, as explained by the > Tetex-beta readme. Yes, I know. That's why we can't use it. Users in general won't read READMEs, let alone they would be able to follow simple instructions :-( The fact that there's a README with instructions, instead of an additional tetex package, for example, tells me that there is some intelligent user-interaction required. Greetings, Jan. -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien | http://www.lilypond.org -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: tetex-beta nitpicking [WAS: Re: no more package moratorium?] 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Markus Hoenicka 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Charles Wilson 1 sibling, 1 reply; 41+ messages in thread From: Markus Hoenicka @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Jan Nieuwenhuizen writes: > Strange, we haven't had any complaints. It seemst that MiKTeX > installs and runs flawlessly. Note that, of course, MiKTeX is > packaged in a tarball and installed through setup.exe. Maybe our > Windows users are all using that latest software? Is it really only me running WinNT without IE > 2? > > Did you install the teTeX texmf tree? > > No, I installed tetex-beta, that's all the tetex that setup.exe will > install, right? That's why we still have to distribute and maitain > our own, modified setup.exe and repository (apart from the just lifted > package moratorium). > > > Just installing Tetex-beta is not enough, as explained by the > > Tetex-beta readme. > > Yes, I know. That's why we can't use it. Users in general won't read > READMEs, let alone they would be able to follow simple instructions > :-( > > The fact that there's a README with instructions, instead of an > additional tetex package, for example, tells me that there is some > intelligent user-interaction required. > Now I see. We're talking about semi-intelligent end-users ;-/ I see no easy way how Cygwin setup.exe could provide a full TeX system unless a copy of the teTeX texmf tree is made part of the distribution. Would that be possible? regards, Markus -- Markus Hoenicka, PhD UT Houston Medical School Dept. of Integrative Biology and Pharmacology 6431 Fannin MSB4.114 Houston, TX 77030 (713) 500-6313, -7477 (713) 500-7444 (fax) Markus.Hoenicka@uth.tmc.edu http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hoenicka_markus/ -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: tetex-beta nitpicking [WAS: Re: no more package moratorium?] 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Markus Hoenicka @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Markus Hoenicka 0 siblings, 1 reply; 41+ messages in thread From: Robert Collins @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin; +Cc: Jerome BENOIT > > > Just installing Tetex-beta is not enough, as explained by the > > > Tetex-beta readme. > > > > Yes, I know. That's why we can't use it. Users in general won't read > > READMEs, let alone they would be able to follow simple instructions > > :-( > > > > The fact that there's a README with instructions, instead of an > > additional tetex package, for example, tells me that there is some > > intelligent user-interaction required. Agreed. If there is missing files/a missing package then that needs to be addressed in setup/the packages. having a README and user interaction isn't always a bad thing, but in this case it sounds like it is. ... > copy of the teTeX texmf tree is made part of the distribution. Would > that be possible? Jerome, oh Jerrrrooooome, care to comment on either including the texmf tree (whatever that is) or does it require adding a new pacakge? And if it needs a new package - do you want to do that, or is it up for grabs? Rob -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: tetex-beta nitpicking [WAS: Re: no more package moratorium?] 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Markus Hoenicka 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jerome BENOIT 0 siblings, 1 reply; 41+ messages in thread From: Markus Hoenicka @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin The texmf tree is a tar.gz file available at every CTAN server which includes all but the binary files for a teTeX system. This is platform-independent, as these are only text files. With the new dependence stuff in setup it *could* be made a separate package. I have no idea about licensing issues, though. regards, Markus Robert Collins writes: > Jerome, oh Jerrrrooooome, care to comment on either including the texmf > tree (whatever that is) or does it require adding a new pacakge? > > And if it needs a new package - do you want to do that, or is it up for > grabs? -- Markus Hoenicka, PhD UT Houston Medical School Dept. of Integrative Biology and Pharmacology 6431 Fannin MSB4.114 Houston, TX 77030 (713) 500-6313, -7477 (713) 500-7444 (fax) Markus.Hoenicka@uth.tmc.edu http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hoenicka_markus/ -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: tetex-beta nitpicking [WAS: Re: no more package moratorium?] 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Markus Hoenicka @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jerome BENOIT 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 0 siblings, 1 reply; 41+ messages in thread From: Jerome BENOIT @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Markus Hoenicka; +Cc: cygwin Markus Hoenicka wrote: > > The texmf tree is a tar.gz file available at every CTAN server which > includes all but the binary files for a teTeX system. This is > platform-independent, as these are only text files. > > With the new dependence stuff in setup it *could* be made a separate > package. I have no idea about licensing issues, though. I have nothing to add. Best wishes, Jerome BENOIT > > regards, > Markus > > Robert Collins writes: > > Jerome, oh Jerrrrooooome, care to comment on either including the texmf > > tree (whatever that is) or does it require adding a new pacakge? > > > > And if it needs a new package - do you want to do that, or is it up for > > grabs? > > -- > Markus Hoenicka, PhD > UT Houston Medical School > Dept. of Integrative Biology and Pharmacology > 6431 Fannin MSB4.114 > Houston, TX 77030 > (713) 500-6313, -7477 > (713) 500-7444 (fax) > Markus.Hoenicka@uth.tmc.edu > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hoenicka_markus/ > > -- > Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple > Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html > Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html > FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ -- *º¤., ¸¸,.¤º*¨¨¨*¤ Jerome BENOIT, Ph.D. *º¤., ¸¸,.¤º*¨¨¨*¤ Institute of Molecular Biology Friedrich-Schiller University of Jena Winzerlaer Strasse 10, Jena 07745, Germany *º¤., ¸¸,.¤º*¨¨¨*¤ JGMBenoit@wanadoo.fr *º¤., ¸¸,.¤º*¨¨¨*¤ -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: tetex-beta nitpicking [WAS: Re: no more package moratorium?] 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jerome BENOIT @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 0 siblings, 0 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Robert Collins @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: JGMBenoit, Markus Hoenicka; +Cc: cygwin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome BENOIT" <520066587150-0001@t-online.de> > > > Markus Hoenicka wrote: > > > > The texmf tree is a tar.gz file available at every CTAN server which > > includes all but the binary files for a teTeX system. This is > > platform-independent, as these are only text files. > > > > With the new dependence stuff in setup it *could* be made a separate > > package. I have no idea about licensing issues, though. > > I have nothing to add. Unless I'm mistaken, you are the current Textex-beta maintainer. So you need to decide whether you will add this texmf stuff to tetex-beta, or whether a new package that contains it is needed. (I supect a new package makes sense if the texmf stuff doesn't change every time you compile the binaries). If a new package - you don't need to be the texmf package maintainer, but you can be if you want to. Rob -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: tetex-beta nitpicking [WAS: Re: no more package moratorium?] 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Markus Hoenicka @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Charles Wilson 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 41+ messages in thread From: Charles Wilson @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jan Nieuwenhuizen; +Cc: Markus Hoenicka, cygwin Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: > > Markus Hoenicka <Markus.Hoenicka@uth.tmc.edu> writes: > > > You can't even install MiKTeX unless you run the latest Windows or the > > latest Internet Explorer. > > Strange, we haven't had any complaints. It seemst that MiKTeX > installs and runs flawlessly. Note that, of course, MiKTeX is > packaged in a tarball and installed through setup.exe. Note to cygwin folks: MikTeX has it's own setup.exe, based on a completely different codebase. (BTW, I thought MikTeX and its packages were packaged as .cab files, not tarballs -- .tgz. I guess I always associate "tarball" with "tar was used to create") [see note below] > Maybe our > Windows users are all using that latest software? > > > I have instructions about installing a SGML system on Windows which > > also uses TeX for the printable output: > > > > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hoenicka_markus/cygbook1.html > > Thanks, but I don't think that would do. Currently, windows users run > setup.exe, and they get a working LilyPond environment. We get lots > of questions and complaints if it doesn't work that way. Even if > there are simple, step by step, instructions on what to do after > running setup.exe. Again, the MikTeX setup is not the cygwin setup. [see note below] > No, I installed tetex-beta, that's all the tetex that setup.exe will > install, right? That's why we still have to distribute and maitain > our own, modified setup.exe and repository (apart from the just lifted > package moratorium). Okay, now this sounds like lilypond is using a modified *cygwin* setup.exe. Does lilypond distribute it's own version of MiKTeX, using the cygwin setup.exe to do the installation (of the custom MikTeX, and the lilypond stuff)? Geez. I started out trying to clarify the issue, and ended up confusing myself. :-P --Chuck -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: tetex-beta nitpicking [WAS: Re: no more package moratorium?] 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Charles Wilson @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Jan Nieuwenhuizen @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Charles Wilson; +Cc: Jan Nieuwenhuizen, Markus Hoenicka, cygwin Charles Wilson <cwilson@ece.gatech.edu> writes: > Okay, now this sounds like lilypond is using a modified *cygwin* > setup.exe. Yes. There was a moratorium on packages, so to get cygwin's setup.exe to download and install the precompiled lilypond tarball (and guile, and an out-of-the-box-working tex), there was no choice but use a modified version. > Does lilypond distribute it's own version of MiKTeX, using the cygwin > setup.exe to do the installation (of the custom MikTeX, and the lilypond > stuff)? Yes, indeed, that's it. I think there have been attempts to fix tetex-beta, to work right out of the box, but up till now, no-one has successfully done this and contributed it. So, we continue to include miktex... > Geez. I started out trying to clarify the issue, and ended up confusing > myself. :-) Jan. -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien | http://www.lilypond.org -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: tetex-beta nitpicking [WAS: Re: no more package moratorium?] 2001-11-11 8:26 ` tetex-beta nitpicking [WAS: Re: no more package moratorium?] Markus Hoenicka 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Charles Wilson 2 siblings, 1 reply; 41+ messages in thread From: Jan Nieuwenhuizen @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Markus Hoenicka; +Cc: cygwin Markus Hoenicka <Markus.Hoenicka@uth.tmc.edu> writes: > Did you install the teTeX texmf tree? Just installing Tetex-beta is > not enough, as explained by the Tetex-beta readme. This is exacly why I asked if there was any chance if this would get fixed (.. is not enough), or if tetex-beta would be removed or marked experimental again with this lifted package moratorium new strictness. It would be Very Good (TM), if installing a package (and its dependencies, eg, tetex-texmf) would be `enough' for the package to work. This is what Debian and Red Hat packages do, usually. Having a broken package that doesn't get fixed by it's maintainer is arguably worse than having none at all. Maybe Cygwin should introduce something like Debian's Non-maintainer uploads to address this problem? Greetings, Jan. -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien | http://www.lilypond.org -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: tetex-beta nitpicking [WAS: Re: no more package moratorium?] 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 0 siblings, 0 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Robert Collins @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Markus Hoenicka, Jan Nieuwenhuizen; +Cc: cygwin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan Nieuwenhuizen" <janneke@gnu.org> > Having a broken package that doesn't get fixed by it's maintainer is > arguably worse than having none at all. Maybe Cygwin should introduce > something like Debian's Non-maintainer uploads to address this problem? NMU's require a consistent and self documenting package management system - which we do not have today. Once we have that, then I've no problem with this concept. Rob -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: tetex-beta nitpicking [WAS: Re: no more package moratorium?] 2001-11-11 8:26 ` tetex-beta nitpicking [WAS: Re: no more package moratorium?] Markus Hoenicka 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Charles Wilson 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Markus Hoenicka 2 siblings, 1 reply; 41+ messages in thread From: Charles Wilson @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Markus Hoenicka; +Cc: Jan Nieuwenhuizen, cygwin Markus Hoenicka wrote: > > Jan Nieuwenhuizen writes: > > http://lilypond.org/wiki/?TroubleshootingWindows). We currently use > > and distribute MikTeX, because it works reliable, and right out of the > > box. > > You can't even install MiKTeX unless you run the latest Windows or the > latest Internet Explorer. Are you saying MikTeX only works on WXP? WRONG. I've run MikTeX 2.1 on W98, WNT, W2K (and have no reason to assume it won't work under WMe.) Now, I'm not arguing against tetex, but let's confine the arguments to factual ones, not FUD. Are you saying MikTeX only works with IE6.0? Again, WRONG. I've used MikTeX with IE5.0, 5.5, 5.5sp1, and 5.5sp2. If you wish to keep your IE4, then you can download the appropriate DLLs that enable the setup engine separately -- details given at the MikTeX website. Again, stick to facts, not FUD. > > > But I'd much rather we could use tetex. Using MikTeX from > > cygwin is `cygpath hell'. I guess. I've never had many problems. I use MikTeX + cygwin + make all the time, and rarely have to resort to cygpath (of course, I usually build using only relative directories, so D:\\ vs. /cygdrive/d isn't really an issue for me) There are arguments in favor of tetex over MikTeX, but the "latest Windows" or "latest IE" are not among them. --Chuck -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: tetex-beta nitpicking [WAS: Re: no more package moratorium?] 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Charles Wilson @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Markus Hoenicka 0 siblings, 0 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Markus Hoenicka @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Charles Wilson writes: > > You can't even install MiKTeX unless you run the latest Windows or the > > latest Internet Explorer. > > Are you saying MikTeX only works on WXP? WRONG. I've run MikTeX 2.1 on > W98, WNT, W2K (and have no reason to assume it won't work under WMe.) > Now, I'm not arguing against tetex, but let's confine the arguments to > factual ones, not FUD. > > Are you saying MikTeX only works with IE6.0? Again, WRONG. I've used > MikTeX with IE5.0, 5.5, 5.5sp1, and 5.5sp2. If you wish to keep your > IE4, then you can download the appropriate DLLs that enable the setup > engine separately -- details given at the MikTeX website. > > Again, stick to facts, not FUD. > Ok, "latest" was a bit of an exaggeration. Fact is that the MiKTeX installer needs versions of Windows DLLs which are *not* in e.g. a WinNT4 installation up to Service Pack 5 (the latest that I've installed). I bet it won't work on Win95 either. The MiKTeX maintainer used to distribute these DLLs but he does so no more. You wrongly assume that everyone happily uses Internet Explorer, so this is not a reasonable path to provide the missing DLLs. So on an older Windows system *without* Internet Explorer MiKTeX will not install. Period. (Please excuse my rants about MiKTeX. IMHO it is bad software design to couple a widely ported software like TeX to the Windows/IE update spiral by means of the installation software. The Cygwin and fpTeX installers show that this is not necessary) regards, Markus -- Markus Hoenicka, PhD UT Houston Medical School Dept. of Integrative Biology and Pharmacology 6431 Fannin MSB4.114 Houston, TX 77030 (713) 500-6313, -7477 (713) 500-7444 (fax) Markus.Hoenicka@uth.tmc.edu http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hoenicka_markus/ -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Corinna Vinschen 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Christopher Faylor ` (2 more replies) 1 sibling, 3 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Robert Collins @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Corinna Vinschen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corinna Vinschen" <cygwin@cygwin.com> > > > It does raise an interesting point: who, when, and how, do new packages > > get approved? > > That's a problem when getting lots of new packages. The forum for > discussion and the approval process is cygwin-apps. However, it's > not the forum to send loads of tar archives so we will have to find > some standarized way as, just as an example: Tarballs - package quality - are orthogonal to the discussion I was raising. I've trimmed those aspects out in replying. > - Potential contributor announces on cygwin-apps that s/he wants > to contribute package `foo' with a short description what the > package does. I agree. They must also *At this point* agree to maintain the package do upgrades feed patches to the vendor etc, and that they will announce publicly if they decide to stop maintaining the package with as much warning as possible. Packages with no maintainers are pulled after 3 months. > - cygwin-developers discusses if the package should become part of > the distro and chooses a person from cygwin-developers as approver. Nope. I don't think this is appropriate. cygwin-developers is for developers of cygwin1.dll. Last I heard, Linus has no input into what Redhat put into the (say) the RawHide distro, so why should the cygwin1.dll developers care what goes into 'cygwin the net distribution'. I think we should either get a consensus from all the package maintainers, or perhaps, wait 3 days for objections. If no objections, then the package is allowed in. If there are objections, discuss until resolved. To prevent deadlock, a single individual objecting will not cause a package to be rejected, the objections must be agreed with by other package maintainers. Some sort of voting thing might be nice (mentioning to show I've thought about it) but for now it seems too hard for too little benefit. I do like the idea of a sponsor, so once a package is decided to be allowed in, if its the first package from the maintainer (ie a new maintainer) then an existing maintainer must sponsor the package, and vet package quality - textmode/patches/postinstall scripts etc. > - When the approver thinks the package is ok, the contributor > is (obligatory!) asked if s/he's willing to maintain the package > in future and if s/he's willing to announce officially when > s/he's not anymore willing to maintain the package. Good points. modified slightly > - When the contributor/maintainer announces to drop maintainership, > we will ask for another person willing to maintain the package > further. If we don't find another person within, say, three months, > the package will be removed from the distro. As you can see above, this does not cover getting the tarball into the net distro: as I said, thats orthogonal. I think the process for that part should be something like sponsor (for new maintainers) or maintainer (2nd package or new version of existing) places the packages files at a URL. They tell someone from <list of maintainers with write access>. <someone> uploads to cygwin.com. If there is _any_ doubt about the package quality, upload it as experimental. Wait 3 weeks, and if there are no bugs reported, then edit setup.hint to make that new versiom current. Thoughts on this? Rob -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` no more package moratorium? Robert Collins @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Christopher Faylor 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins ` (2 more replies) 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 2 siblings, 3 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Christopher Faylor @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Thu, Nov 15, 2001 at 09:08:08AM +1100, Robert Collins wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Corinna Vinschen" <cygwin@cygwin.com> >> - cygwin-developers discusses if the package should become part of >> the distro and chooses a person from cygwin-developers as approver. > >Nope. I don't think this is appropriate. cygwin-developers is for >developers of cygwin1.dll. Last I heard, Linus has no input into what >Redhat put into the (say) the RawHide distro, so why should the >cygwin1.dll developers care what goes into 'cygwin the net >distribution'. Yep. >I think we should either get a consensus from all the package >maintainers, or perhaps, wait 3 days for objections. If no objections, >then the package is allowed in. If there are objections, discuss until >resolved. To prevent deadlock, a single individual objecting will not >cause a package to be rejected, the objections must be agreed with by >other package maintainers. As long as I get veto power or whatever the opposite of veto power, that's fine with me. I'm not exactly Linus in this situation, I guess. I'm not sure that we really need to be this formal, though. Who's going to be doing the tracking? Once again, it sounds like another job for a script. :-) cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Christopher Faylor @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jesper Eskilson 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 2 siblings, 0 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Robert Collins @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Faylor" <cgf@redhat.com> > > >I think we should either get a consensus from all the package > >maintainers, or perhaps, wait 3 days for objections. If no objections, > >then the package is allowed in. If there are objections, discuss until > >resolved. To prevent deadlock, a single individual objecting will not > >cause a package to be rejected, the objections must be agreed with by > >other package maintainers. > > As long as I get veto power or whatever the opposite of veto power, > that's fine with me. I'm not exactly Linus in this situation, I guess. Well in this situation you are a package maintainer - the cygwin package. Just object :]. > I'm not sure that we really need to be this formal, though. Who's going > to be doing the tracking? How many new packages are we going to get? I can easily keep a notepad list of packages that have had someone put their hand up for, and every 3 days delete 1 day off the list. Rob -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Christopher Faylor 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jesper Eskilson 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Christopher Faylor 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 2 siblings, 1 reply; 41+ messages in thread From: Jesper Eskilson @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Christopher Faylor <cgf@redhat.com> writes: > As long as I get veto power or whatever the opposite of veto power, > that's fine with me. I'm not exactly Linus in this situation, I guess. The opposite of veto power is probably "nobody gives a damn". ;-) /Jesper -- Jesper Eskilson Virtutech -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jesper Eskilson @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Christopher Faylor 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 0 siblings, 1 reply; 41+ messages in thread From: Christopher Faylor @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Thu, Nov 15, 2001 at 09:48:49AM +0100, Jesper Eskilson wrote: >Christopher Faylor <cgf@redhat.com> writes: > >> As long as I get veto power or whatever the opposite of veto power, >> that's fine with me. I'm not exactly Linus in this situation, I guess. > >The opposite of veto power is probably "nobody gives a damn". ;-) No, I meant, "Everybody gives a damn but I say yes anyway." cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Christopher Faylor @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 0 siblings, 0 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Stipe Tolj @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin > >The opposite of veto power is probably "nobody gives a damn". ;-) > > No, I meant, "Everybody gives a damn but I say yes anyway." so it's still a veto from the point of definition. It's only a negative veto within the sum of all elements :] Stipe tolj@wapme-systems.de ------------------------------------------------------------------- Wapme Systems AG Münsterstr. 248 40470 Düsseldorf Tel: +49-211-74845-0 Fax: +49-211-74845-299 E-Mail: info@wapme-systems.de Internet: http://www.wapme-systems.de ------------------------------------------------------------------- wapme.net - wherever you are -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Christopher Faylor 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jesper Eskilson @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 2 siblings, 0 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Stipe Tolj @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin > I'm not sure that we really need to be this formal, though. Who's going > to be doing the tracking? the package maintainance tracking may be done using a PHP based system on cygwin.com or an other dedicated site. I would like to volonteer for the development, as I'm designing it anyway :) > Once again, it sounds like another job for a script. :-) sort of, yes. Stipe tolj@wapme-systems.de ------------------------------------------------------------------- Wapme Systems AG Münsterstr. 248 40470 Düsseldorf Tel: +49-211-74845-0 Fax: +49-211-74845-299 E-Mail: info@wapme-systems.de Internet: http://www.wapme-systems.de ------------------------------------------------------------------- wapme.net - wherever you are -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` no more package moratorium? Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Christopher Faylor @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 2 siblings, 0 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Robert Collins @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Corinna Vinschen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Collins" <robert.collins@itdomain.com.au> > > - When the approver thinks the package is ok, the contributor > > is (obligatory!) asked if s/he's willing to maintain the package > > in future and if s/he's willing to announce officially when > > s/he's not anymore willing to maintain the package. > > Good points. modified slightly .................................^ and included above Rob -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium? 2001-11-11 8:26 ` no more package moratorium? Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Christopher Faylor 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 2 siblings, 0 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Stipe Tolj @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Collins; +Cc: Corinna Vinschen > Nope. I don't think this is appropriate. cygwin-developers is for > developers of cygwin1.dll. Last I heard, Linus has no input into what > Redhat put into the (say) the RawHide distro, so why should the > cygwin1.dll developers care what goes into 'cygwin the net > distribution'. > > I think we should either get a consensus from all the package > maintainers, or perhaps, wait 3 days for objections. If no objections, > then the package is allowed in. If there are objections, discuss until > resolved. To prevent deadlock, a single individual objecting will not > cause a package to be rejected, the objections must be agreed with by > other package maintainers. I agree with Robert here. A simple -1,0,+1 voting valid from all current package maintainers should indicate the aprover if the package is considered "good enough". -1 for "no, I'm against <fact xy>" 0 for "I have no objections or do not care" +1 for "yes, go ahead from my point of view" This way we have a democrative way, but still without unnecessary reglementations for the aprover. The aprover decides on the global scope of the votings if the package should be within the official net distro. > Some sort of voting thing might be nice (mentioning to show I've thought > about it) but for now it seems too hard for too little benefit. I do > like the idea of a sponsor, so yep, as proclaimed above. > once a package is decided to be allowed in, if its the first package > from the maintainer (ie a new maintainer) then an existing maintainer > must sponsor the package, and vet package quality - > textmode/patches/postinstall scripts etc. good point -- package maintainers should be cycling in sponsoring for new package maintainers. This makes the communication between package maintainers more reliable and improves the quality of work. > I think the process for that part should be something like > > sponsor (for new maintainers) or maintainer (2nd package or new version > of existing) places the packages files at a URL. > They tell someone from <list of maintainers with write access>. > <someone> uploads to cygwin.com. > > If there is _any_ doubt about the package quality, upload it as > experimental. Wait 3 weeks, and if there are no bugs reported, then edit > setup.hint to make that new versiom current. A package maintaining system (via the web site) would help here. I had this in mind for some time. (see my thread on the file conflict issues). Stipe tolj@wapme-systems.de ------------------------------------------------------------------- Wapme Systems AG Münsterstr. 248 40470 Düsseldorf Tel: +49-211-74845-0 Fax: +49-211-74845-299 E-Mail: info@wapme-systems.de Internet: http://www.wapme-systems.de ------------------------------------------------------------------- wapme.net - wherever you are -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* no more package moratorium? 2001-11-02 12:06 no more package moratorium? Gareth Pearce 2001-11-02 12:19 ` Robert Collins @ 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Gareth Pearce 1 sibling, 0 replies; 41+ messages in thread From: Gareth Pearce @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin subject asks the question... I gathered that the release of new setup was going to bring the moratorium down ... if so I might start considering packaging up nano, assuming I can work out how to patch it consistantly... so umm anyone want to give an answer? Gareth _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
* Re: no more package moratorium?
@ 2001-11-11 8:26 E
0 siblings, 0 replies; 41+ messages in thread
From: E @ 2001-11-11 8:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
Robert Collins wrote:
>I agree. They must also *At this point* agree to maintain the package do
>upgrades feed patches to the vendor etc, and that they will announce
>publicly if they decide to stop maintaining the package with as much
>warning as possible. Packages with no maintainers are pulled after 3
>months.
And perhaps put a big "[UNMAINTAINED]" on the start of the description for
that three months to perhaps prompt an enterprising soul to take it
up? (Or at least as a warning of it's immanent departure :-) )
E.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 41+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2001-11-18 11:30 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 41+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2001-11-02 12:06 no more package moratorium? Gareth Pearce 2001-11-02 12:19 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Corinna Vinschen 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Christopher Faylor 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Markus Hoenicka 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Charles Wilson 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Christopher Faylor [not found] ` <m3k7wr50fa.fsf@appel.lilypond.org> 2001-11-11 8:26 ` tetex-beta nitpicking [WAS: Re: no more package moratorium?] Markus Hoenicka 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Markus Hoenicka 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Markus Hoenicka 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jerome BENOIT 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Charles Wilson 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jan Nieuwenhuizen 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Charles Wilson 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Markus Hoenicka 2001-11-11 8:26 ` no more package moratorium? Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Christopher Faylor 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Jesper Eskilson 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Christopher Faylor 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Robert Collins 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Stipe Tolj 2001-11-11 8:26 ` Gareth Pearce 2001-11-11 8:26 E
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