Re: new site for my ports is up

Re: new site for my ports is up

[Christopher Faylor]

On Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 01:38:32PM +1100, Robert Collins wrote:
>My 2c on the layout - package letter based make s more sense to me. (It
>allows finding a package via ftp without knowing the category.)

Are you saying that I should have a list like "A" and put ash underneath
that?  "B" gets binutils?  Yuck.

This list is not intended to be used with ftp.  This is just intended as
a way to list the contents of packages.  It is definitely not intended to
allow people to download tar files.  That would be rather difficult since
you can't download directly from sources.redhat.com.

And, if I did provide a convenient method for downloading tar files we'd
be once again back to the pre-dependency setup problems.

>The web interface should allow categorised and filename based search/views
>though :}.

Categorized searches are already there.  Use "search" in your browser.
I don't see why filename searches would be useful.  The package names
are directly related to the filenames.  That is not going to change.

cgf

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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Stipe Tolj]

> Default is default, but it doesn't matter if you install it in /opt/apache,
> /www/apache, /usr/apache, /usr/local/apache, the layout is always the same,
> just the prefix is different.

yep, and the user may change his/her DocumentRoot in httpd.conf, so we
are not dependable in using /usr/local/apache/htdocs for the
DocumentRoot, only ServerRoot is compiled in to /usr/local/apache.

Stipe

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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Christopher Faylor]

On Thu, Nov 15, 2001 at 06:33:34PM -0500, Charles Wilson wrote:
>But latest and contrib are going away, AFAIRC.  Chris has a grand 
>refactoring scheme where the packages actually live in a tree structure 
>related to the primary category (Net, Base, Lib, Graphics, etc)
>
>right, Chris?

I did talk about that once, didn't I.

The current setup.ini builder can't deal with that but it would be trivial
to add, of course.

I was going to give the new version of setup.exe some time before I made
any other changes, though.  And, I have some infrastructure work that
I want to do too, like improving the cygwin packages web page.

cgf

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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Charles Wilson]

"Gerrit P. Haase" wrote:

> I'm still uploading, at the end there will be all this stuff there:

> cygwin/cygipc:
> total 83
> -rwxrwxrwx    1 544         83134 Oct 10 14:45 cygipc-1.10-1.tar.bz2
> -rwxrwxrwx    1 544           753 Nov 14 18:38 index.html
> 

cygipc is GPL.  Where's the source?

2nd question: do these packages install into /usr (bad) or into
/usr/local (good)?  Only official ports -- those distributed by the
cygwin mirror system and setup -- should live in /usr.

--Chuck

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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Robert Collins]

===
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Collins" <robert.collins@itdomain.com.au>

> 
> John, Where are the tarballs again, so I can check them against the
> setup.exe standards? You do want Curl included correct?

Oops, broken memory.. sorry. I've found _Kevin's_ emails }:

Rob


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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Gerrit P. Haase]

Hallo Stipe,

2001-11-15 17:43:21, du schriebst:

>> BTW, is it possible to introduce a new path like '/opt' e.g. for Apache, or
>> should it better go in /usr/apache, /usr/mysql ...?

> I have to veto here!

Ok.

> Apache goes by default to /usr/local/apache and should reside there
> for a cygwin based binary package that I'm currently preparing :))

> That way we take two with one: 1) cygwin's policy for /usr/local is
> consistently helf, 2) apache's default layout path is taken.

Default is default, but it doesn't matter if you install it in /opt/apache,
/www/apache, /usr/apache, /usr/local/apache, the layout is always the same,
just the prefix is different.

Gerrit
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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Charles Wilson]

"Gerrit P. Haase" wrote:

> > Another question:  Why a separate site?  Why not avoid the confusion and
> > submit the packages to the main release?
> 
> Okidoki, every package that gets in the dist will be removed from this site.
> I think I will have to repack all of them, but that is no problem though it
> will last some days.
> Some needs to be rebuilt then too.
> 
> BTW, is it possible to introduce a new path like '/opt' e.g. for Apache, or
> should it better go in /usr/apache, /usr/mysql ...?

Having ports/packages "live" on a separate site for a while, until the
ports "settle down" enough for the porter/maintainer to be confident of
them, is okay. I did that for a year or two with cygutils.  Eventually,
I migrated the "important" packages over to the new "official" dist.

Some stuff cannot be distributed from the cygwin mirror system, for
legal or political reasons (think cygipc).  [BTW, Gerrit, I have NO
problems with you mirroring the cygipc package. Go ahead.  But don't try
to submit it for inclusion in the official dist, 'cause it won't be
accepted]

My point was that the off-site versions should install into /usr/local
(or /opt/ or whatever, just *NOT* /usr).  When you're ready to
contribute them to the main dist, THEN (and only then) rebuild them to
install into /usr and upload (to sourceware) as a test release.

--Chuck

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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Stipe Tolj]

> Well, have you considered /opt?

I think the problem with the POSIX style root splitting is that most
open source packages that use autoconf's configure scripts do assume
/usr/local as there default home.

Stipe

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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Jochen Küpper]

On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 23:49:28 +0100 Stipe Tolj wrote:

Stipe> I think the problem with the POSIX style root splitting is that most
Stipe> open source packages that use autoconf's configure scripts do assume
Stipe> /usr/local as there default home.

Yep. That's because it should go there if you compile it locally. As a
"package maintainer" you can use --prefix to send it somewhere else. I
haven't found packages that didn't work in /opt, it's just they don't
go there by themself.

Greetings,
Jochen
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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Gerrit P. Haase]

Hallo Christopher,

2001-11-14 22:39:11, du schriebst:

> On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 03:44:07PM -0500, Charles Wilson wrote:
>>"Gerrit P. Haase" wrote:
>>
>>> I'm still uploading, at the end there will be all this stuff there:
>>
>>> cygwin/cygipc:
>>> total 83
>>> -rwxrwxrwx    1 544         83134 Oct 10 14:45 cygipc-1.10-1.tar.bz2
>>> -rwxrwxrwx    1 544           753 Nov 14 18:38 index.html
>>> 
>>
>>cygipc is GPL.  Where's the source?
>>
>>2nd question: do these packages install into /usr (bad) or into
>>/usr/local (good)?  Only official ports -- those distributed by the
>>cygwin mirror system and setup -- should live in /usr.

> Another question:  Why a separate site?  Why not avoid the confusion and
> submit the packages to the main release?

Okidoki, every package that gets in the dist will be removed from this site.
I think I will have to repack all of them, but that is no problem though it
will last some days.
Some needs to be rebuilt then too.

BTW, is it possible to introduce a new path like '/opt' e.g. for Apache, or
should it better go in /usr/apache, /usr/mysql ...?

Gerrit
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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Robert Collins]

===
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Faylor" <cgf@redhat.com>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: new site for my ports is up


> On Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 01:38:32PM +1100, Robert Collins wrote:
> >My 2c on the layout - package letter based make s more sense to me.
(It
> >allows finding a package via ftp without knowing the category.)
>
> Are you saying that I should have a list like "A" and put ash
underneath
> that?  "B" gets binutils?  Yuck.

No. Crossed wires here. The conversation I recall was rearranging the
directories in the ftp site.

The web pages for folk to view are great as they are.

Rob


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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Stipe Tolj]

> Having ports/packages "live" on a separate site for a while, until the
> ports "settle down" enough for the porter/maintainer to be confident of
> them, is okay. I did that for a year or two with cygutils.  Eventually,
> I migrated the "important" packages over to the new "official" dist.

I think is is the target of all of us (package maintainers). Offer
packages and then get them cleanly to the "official" distribution.

The only point I have to critic is the lack in tools and mechanisms to
maintain the packages "on the distribution" (site). I would like to
see an integrated web site that focuses on two aims: 

  1) supporting the (new) users the best way to get what they want,
aka "has someone ported foobar already to Cygwin?!"

  2) support the pacakge maintainers, i.e. by having a reference of
all used files and possible file conflicts within a database on the
site. A package maintainer should be able to "check-in" a new release
and roll a regression test on it before it gets publicaly available
and integrated to setup.ini.

> Some stuff cannot be distributed from the cygwin mirror system, for
> legal or political reasons (think cygipc).  [BTW, Gerrit, I have NO
> problems with you mirroring the cygipc package. Go ahead.  But don't try
> to submit it for inclusion in the official dist, 'cause it won't be
> accepted]

why is that?

Stipe

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Re: new site for my ports is up

[John Marshall]

On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 05:56:45PM -0500, Charles Wilson wrote:
> My point was that the off-site versions should install into /usr/local
> (or /opt/ or whatever, just *NOT* /usr).  When you're ready to
> contribute them to the main dist, THEN (and only then) rebuild them to
> install into /usr and upload (to sourceware) as a test release.

Er, can you say why?

Over in RPM land, I have users telling me that they want the
/usr v /usr/local decision to be determined by whether something is
package managed (and thus uninstallable via rpm/setup), rather than
by whether it happens to come from the vendor.

So I get flamed for producing a .rpm that installs to /usr/local, and
am probably going to change to /usr because I think they're right.

Many of my dumb users want to run Cygwin programs from a DOS window.
So if I installed to /usr/local I would need to tell them to add two
directories (C:\Cygwin\bin & C:\Cygwin\usr\local\bin) to their Windows
PATH instead of one, increasing the scope for screwups.

Currently I produce a package for Cygwin setup.exe that installs to
/usr, and I'm about to start getting flamed for that too?  :-)

Having off-site packages install to /usr/local on Cygwin would certainly
show whether they were official or not (cf rpm -qi), but that information
is already pretty much available in /etc/setup/installed.db if off-site
people deliver their package tarballs to setup in a directory other than
"latest" or "contrib".

    John

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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Robert Collins]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Wilson" <cwilson@ece.gatech.edu>


> John Marshall wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 05:56:45PM -0500, Charles Wilson wrote:
> >
> Way back at the dawn of time (which 1.1 was first released and
"cygwin" was
> split into the many separate packages we now know and love) it was
decided
> that "official" packages would install into /usr.
>
> That's all.
>
> Common courtesy then requires that if you are creating an *unofficial*
> package, that you do NOT put it into /usr, lest it be confused with an
> official version.

I don't see how this is implied.

> > Over in RPM land, I have users telling me that they want the
> > /usr v /usr/local decision to be determined by whether something is
> > package managed (and thus uninstallable via rpm/setup), rather than
> > by whether it happens to come from the vendor.
>
>
> Well, we certainly can't stop you from doing whatever you want.
However, I
> believe the LSB/FSH actually *does* say something about
distribution-vendor
> supplied packages treated differently from "random" ones.  But I could
be
> wrong (it's happened before).

Sorry, you're wrong. (nyahh nyahh :}).  The LSB says zip about this
under packages and FHS, and the FHS says
"/usr/local - local hierarchy (empty after main installation)." I
contend that packages created by vendors to be compatible with setup.exe
(and therefore able to be used as part of the main installation) should
honour this as well.

Additionally, 4.9.1 of the FHS says that /usr/local is for use by the
sysadmin when installing software locally *and needs to be safe from
being overwritten when the system software is updated*.

IMO setup.exe should refuse to write to /usr/local (but we'd probably
then get folk complaining about that too :}.)

> > So I get flamed for producing a .rpm that installs to /usr/local,
and
> > am probably going to change to /usr because I think they're right.
>
> If you are creating your own distribution, then *YOU* are the vendor.
You
> can put whatever you like into /usr.  or /fred.  Just don't refer your
> users to us.

Surely that is orthogonal to where the packages install to?


> > Currently I produce a package for Cygwin setup.exe that installs to
> > /usr, and I'm about to start getting flamed for that too?  :-)
>
> No.  We can't stop you, and really have no interest in flaming you
about
> your personal cygwin-derived distribution.  Just so we don't get
spillover
> questions on the list.

John, Where are the tarballs again, so I can check them against the
setup.exe standards? You do want Curl included correct?

> Oh, and long term, installed.db may become an actual database instead
of a
> simple text file...

Long term? Oh, yes right :}.

Rob


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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Stipe Tolj]

> BTW, is it possible to introduce a new path like '/opt' e.g. for Apache, or
> should it better go in /usr/apache, /usr/mysql ...?

I have to veto here!

Apache goes by default to /usr/local/apache and should reside there
for a cygwin based binary package that I'm currently preparing :))

That way we take two with one: 1) cygwin's policy for /usr/local is
consistently helf, 2) apache's default layout path is taken.

Stipe

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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Christopher Faylor]

On Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 04:29:07PM +1100, Robert Collins wrote:
>
>===
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Christopher Faylor" <cgf@redhat.com>
>To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
>Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 1:51 PM
>Subject: Re: new site for my ports is up
>
>
>> On Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 01:38:32PM +1100, Robert Collins wrote:
>>>My 2c on the layout - package letter based make s more sense to me.
>>>(It allows finding a package via ftp without knowing the category.)
>>
>>Are you saying that I should have a list like "A" and put ash
>>underneath that?  "B" gets binutils?  Yuck.
>
>No.  Crossed wires here.  The conversation I recall was rearranging the
>directories in the ftp site.

Ah!  Sorry about that.

The idea of putting things under categories was something that I
originally proposed but I wasn't entirely sure that it was ok.

I wonder if we shouldn't just dispense with any hierarchy at all and put
all of the packages in their own subdirectory, like ftp.gnu.org?

cgf

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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Stipe Tolj]

> Why should apache go to /usr/local/apache? Name one redhat/suse/debian
> style amanaged linux distribution that puts apache there! The configure
> script for _any_ package will need parameters given to it when building
> a package to be included in cygwin.
> 
> Until now, no-one as raised the issue of changing _our_ standard, which
> is that setup.exe installed software installs into / and /usr, not into
> /usr/local. And I do not think we should change that. I don't believe
> that the users will be served by us installing into /usr/local.

If you consider point 3) from down I agree. There are some packages
that do install into  /usr/local, or am I wrong here?!

Stipe

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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Robert Collins]

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Marshall" <jmarshall@acm.org>

> Over in RPM land, I have users telling me that they want the
> /usr v /usr/local decision to be determined by whether something is
> package managed (and thus uninstallable via rpm/setup), rather than
> by whether it happens to come from the vendor.

Good point.

> So I get flamed for producing a .rpm that installs to /usr/local, and
> am probably going to change to /usr because I think they're right.
>
> Many of my dumb users want to run Cygwin programs from a DOS window.
> So if I installed to /usr/local I would need to tell them to add two
> directories (C:\Cygwin\bin & C:\Cygwin\usr\local\bin) to their Windows
> PATH instead of one, increasing the scope for screwups.

This is an orthogonal issue IMO. Cygwin is not installed correctly if
usr\local\bin is not in the path.

> Currently I produce a package for Cygwin setup.exe that installs to
> /usr, and I'm about to start getting flamed for that too?  :-)

Nope, because your package was for testing pre-setup moratorium being
lifted, and it's lifted. Your (curl IIRC) package should now get into
setup.exe quite happily.

> Having off-site packages install to /usr/local on Cygwin would
certainly
> show whether they were official or not (cf rpm -qi), but that
information
> is already pretty much available in /etc/setup/installed.db if
off-site
> people deliver their package tarballs to setup in a directory other
than
> "latest" or "contrib".

I actually don't think that 'off-site' really means much w.r.t. where a
package installs. By that I mean, does an end user *care* that the
packages came from a given mirror, or that they are available. If we
want'd to only display *official* packages, we could do something based
on the MD5 sums in setup.ini.

Rob


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new site for my ports is up

[Gerrit P. Haase]

Hallo Cygwinners,

I signed up for an account at topcities now, well theyt put an ad at every
index page, but I hope this will last a little longer than at multimania.
http://timtowtdi.topcities.com/

I'm still uploading, at the end there will be all this stuff there:

$ ls -lRGn cygwin
cygwin:
total 104
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:38 compress
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:38 cygipc
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:38 fetchmail
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:38 file
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:39 findutils
drwxrwxrwt    4 544          4096 Nov 14 18:39 gd
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:39 guile
drwxrwxrwt    2 544             0 Nov 14 18:39 impgen
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:39 indent
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          3862 Nov 14 18:26 index.html
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:39 jasper
drwxrwxrwx    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:39 joe-2.9.6
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:39 libtool
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:40 lzo-1.07
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:40 lzop-1.00
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:40 mysql
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:40 netpbm
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:40 ocaml
drwxrwxrwt    2 544             0 Nov 14 18:40 perl
drwxrwxrwt    3 544             0 Jul  6 16:42 ply
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:40 rgrep
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:41 rsync
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:41 ruby
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:41 sharutils
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:41 sp-1.3.4
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:41 tin
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:41 tth
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:42 ucl-0.92
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:42 upx-1.20
drwxrwxrwt    2 544             0 Nov 14 18:42 xml

cygwin/compress:
total 174
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         54189 Jul  3 15:31 compress-4.0-src.tar.gz
-rwxrwxrwx    1 500        122880 Jul  3 16:30 compress-4.0.tar
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           903 Nov 14 18:38 index.html

cygwin/cygipc:
total 83
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         83134 Oct 10 14:45 cygipc-1.10-1.tar.bz2
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           753 Nov 14 18:38 index.html

cygwin/fetchmail:
total 1117
-rw-rw-rw-    1 500        319704 Jul  5 17:46 fetchmail-5.8.1-1.tar.bz2
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        822015 Apr 19  2001 fetchmail-5.8.1.tar.gz
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           923 Nov 14 18:38 index.html

cygwin/file:
total 283
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1259 Aug 27 19:25 MAINT
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          4413 Aug 27 19:25 README
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        164103 Aug 27 19:32 file-3.36-1-src.tar.gz
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        115814 Aug 27 19:33 file-3.36-1.tar.bz2
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1018 Nov 14 18:38 index.html

cygwin/findutils:
total 518
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         98761 May 11  2001 find.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        117213 Jul  6 11:00 findutils-4.1-1-gph.tar.gz
-rwx------    1 544        294494 Mar 26  2001 findutils-4.1-src.tar.gz
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1171 Nov 14 18:39 index.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         15845 May 11  2001 perm.html

cygwin/gd:
total 249
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        127349 Jul 30 13:13 fly-1.6.5.tar.gz
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:38 fly-doc
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:37 fly-examples
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         23040 Jul 30 13:19 fly-gd-1.2.exe
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         27648 Jul 30 13:26 fly.exe
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         64899 Jul 30 13:06 gd-1.2.tar.gz
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1374 Nov 14 18:39 index.html

cygwin/gd/fly-doc:
total 91
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          4311 Jun 11  1999 FAQ.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          3880 Jun 11  1999 copyright.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          3334 Jun 11  1999 documentation.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1399 Jun 11  1999 example.gif
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          4649 Jun 11  1999 examples.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          4212 Jun 11  1999 feedback.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          5699 Jun 11  1999 fly-logo.gif
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          2663 Nov 14 18:37 index.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         13445 Jun 11  1999 installation.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           610 Jun 11  1999 nav-copyright.gif
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           713 Jun 11  1999 nav-docs.gif
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           566 Jun 11  1999 nav-feedback.gif
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           406 Jun 11  1999 nav-home.gif
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1131 Jun 11  1999 new.gif
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          5805 Jun 11  1999 outthere.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         13992 Jun 11  1999 release-notes.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         14840 Jun 11  1999 using.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1048 Jun 11  1999 valid_html.gif

cygwin/gd/fly-examples:
total 20
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           751 Jan 14  1999 cgi-perl-example.pl.txt
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           267 Jan 14  1999 csh.example
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          6284 Jul 30 11:50 fly-tester.pl.txt
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1597 Nov 14 18:37 index.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           682 Jan 14  1999 perl.example
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           562 Jan 14  1999 size.pl.txt
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           147 Jan 14  1999 small-end.fly
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           143 Jan 14  1999 small.fly
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          4814 Jan 14  1999 test.fly

cygwin/guile:
total 532
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         26823 Sep 20 15:06 guile-1.4-2.patch
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        515552 Sep 21 01:43 guile-1.4-2.tar.bz2
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           875 Nov 14 18:39 index.html

cygwin/impgen:
total 3
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1540 Nov 14 16:50 impgen.zip
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           731 Nov 14 18:39 index.html

cygwin/indent:
total 224
-rw-rw-rw-    1 11002      166013 Nov 14 15:55 indent-2.2.6-1-src.tar.bz2
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           690 Nov 14 15:54 indent-2.2.6-1.README
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1355 Nov 14 14:10 indent-2.2.6-1.patch
-rw-rw-rw-    1 11002       55744 Nov 14 15:47 indent-2.2.6-1.tar.bz2
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1287 Nov 14 18:39 index.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           262 Nov 14 14:03 setup.hint

cygwin/jasper:
total 660
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1159 Nov 14 18:39 index.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        245961 Jul 24 18:04 jasper-1.500.0-1-cygwin.tar.bz2
-rw-rw-rw-    1 500        375168 Jul 24 18:08 jasper-1.500.0-src.tar.bz2
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         43535 Jun 27 21:57 jasper.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          6288 Jan 27  2001 jasper_small.gif

cygwin/joe-2.9.6:
total 594
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         12488 Jun 18 22:47 COPYING
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          6678 Jun 18 22:47 INFO
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          4935 Jun 18 22:47 LIST
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          6505 Jun 18 22:47 NEWS
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         10624 Jun 18 22:47 README
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           575 Jun 18 22:47 SOURCES
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1727 Jun 18 22:47 TODO
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1764 Nov 14 18:39 index.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        128495 Jul  9 12:54 joe-2.9.6-2-gph.tgz
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        214351 Jul  9 12:53 joe-2.9.6-patched-src.tgz
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        214068 Jul  9 12:54 joe-2.9.6.tgz

cygwin/libtool:
total 396
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           762 Nov 14 18:39 index.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        403743 Sep 18 20:44 libtool-1.4.2-gph.tar.bz2

cygwin/lzo-1.07:
total 74
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544            83 Jul  6 10:29 AUTHORS
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           822 Jul  6 10:30 BUGS
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         18094 Jul  6 10:30 COPYING
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           106 Jul  6 10:30 ChangeLog
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          7899 Jul  6 10:31 INSTALL
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1443 Jul  6 10:31 LTEST.TXT
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          7509 Jul  6 10:31 LZO.FAQ
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         13336 Jul  6 10:31 LZO.TXT
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          7028 Jul  6 10:31 LZOAPI.TXT
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          7019 Jul  6 10:31 NEWS
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1054 Jul  6 10:36 README
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           690 Jul  6 10:31 THANKS
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          2014 Nov 14 18:40 index.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1129 Jul  6 10:43 lzo-1.07-cygwin.README

cygwin/lzop-1.00:
total 157
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           101 Jul  6 10:32 AUTHORS
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         18094 Jul  6 10:32 COPYING
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          7609 Jul  6 10:32 INSTALL
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1338 Jul  6 10:33 NEWS
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1547 Jul  6 10:36 README
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           496 Jul  6 10:33 THANKS
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          2011 Nov 14 18:40 index.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1191 Jul  6 10:43 lzop-1.00-cygwin.README
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         18927 Jul  6 10:33 lzop.htm
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         20130 Jul  6 10:33 lzop.man
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         13699 Jul  6 10:33 lzop.pod
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         35318 Jul  6 10:33 lzop.ps
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         17913 Jul  6 10:33 lzop.tex
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         14634 Jul  6 10:33 lzop.txt

cygwin/mysql:
total 18847
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1583 Nov 14 18:40 index.html
-rw-rw-rw-    1 11002         216 Oct 30 20:27 log.error
-rw-rw-rw-    1 11002     3367258 Oct 30 17:26 mysql-3.23.43-pc-cygwin-i586.tar.bz2
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544       4147219 Oct 30 17:14 mysql-3.23.43-pc-cygwin-i586.tar.gz
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544      11777006 Oct 29 10:54 mysql-3.23.43-src.tar.gz
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           687 Nov 14 16:47 mysql.build
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           438 Oct 29 10:35 mysql.patch
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           318 Oct 30 20:23 ncftpput.all

cygwin/netpbm:
total 48
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           868 Nov 14 18:40 index.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         15099 Jul  6 13:41 netpbm-9.12-1-cygwin.README
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         32691 Aug  2 17:01 netpbm.html

cygwin/ocaml:
total 3052
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           916 Nov 14 18:40 index.html
-rw-rw-rw-    1 11002     1974557 Sep 24 14:28 ocaml-3.02-1-nostrip.tar.bz2
-rw-rw-rw-    1 11002     1148734 Sep 24 14:35 ocaml-3.02-1-stripped.tar.bz2

cygwin/perl:
total 1497
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544       1531099 Sep 25 13:58 Tk800.023-1.tar.bz2
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           747 Nov 14 18:40 index.html

cygwin/ply:
total 46
drwxrwxrwt    2 544          4096 Nov 14 18:38 ply
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         42937 Jul  6 16:42 ply.tgz

cygwin/ply/ply:
total 234
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1100 Apr 30  2001 ALL_FILTERS.txt
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         11674 Aug  6  1998 PLY_FILES.txt
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1564 Aug  6  1998 README.txt
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         10540 Aug  6  1998 adjacency_module.c
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          8083 Aug  6  1998 boundply.c
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          6040 Aug  6  1998 convertply.c
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          4149 Apr 11  2001 drand48.c
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          9788 Aug  6  1998 flipply.c
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          3498 Aug  6  1998 headply.c
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          4128 Nov 14 18:38 index.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1498 Apr 30  2001 makefile
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          9098 Aug  6  1998 normalsply.c
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         13501 Aug  6  1998 obj2ply.c
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         10568 Aug  6  1998 platoply.c
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         89448 Apr 11  2001 ply.c
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          8727 Aug  6  1998 ply.h
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          7796 Aug  6  1998 ply2iv.c
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          6416 Apr 24  2001 ply2obj.c
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          8166 Aug  6  1998 sphereply.c
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         12715 Aug  6  1998 xformply.c

cygwin/rgrep:
total 44
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           719 Sep 23 03:02 COPYRIGHT
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1730 Sep 23 03:02 README
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1096 Nov 14 18:40 index.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         30828 Sep 23 03:00 rgrep-1.6.tar.bz2
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          5914 Sep 23 03:02 rgrep.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1320 Sep 23 03:02 rgrep.txt

cygwin/rsync:
total 64
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           987 Nov 14 18:41 index.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1727 Jul  6 15:25 rsync-2.4.6-1-cygwin.README
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         40136 Jan  5  2001 rsync.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         21056 Jan  5  2001 rsyncd.conf.html

cygwin/ruby:
total 2120
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          2846 Sep 21 20:55 README
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         28818 Sep 21 20:55 how-to-extensions.txt
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1142 Nov 14 18:41 index.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544       1164025 Sep 21 20:49 ruby-1.6.5-1.tar.bz2
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        960496 Sep 21 20:45 ruby-1.6.5.tar.gz
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         10386 Sep 21 20:55 ruby.html

cygwin/sharutils:
total 391
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           946 Nov 14 18:41 index.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         92456 Apr 18  2001 sharutils-4.2.1-cygwin.tar.gz
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        306022 Apr 18  2001 sharutils-4.2.1-src.tar.gz

cygwin/sp-1.3.4:
total 2495
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           903 Nov 14 18:41 index.html
-rw-rw-rw-    1 500       2087289 Jul  5 17:05 sp-1.3.4-1-cygwin.tar.bz2
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        465166 Jul  5 12:46 sp-1.3.4.tar.bz2

cygwin/tin:
total 2220
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1990 Aug 27 19:36 README
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1472 Jul  8 07:52 README.cygwin
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1440 Nov 14 18:41 index.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1990 Jul  6 10:48 tin-1.4.4-cygwin.README
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          7130 Jul  5 11:07 tin-1.5.9-2-cygwin.diff
-rw-rw-rw-    1 500        318943 Jul  5 11:15 tin-1.5.9-2-cygwin.tar.bz2
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        973858 Jul  5 11:19 tin-1.5.9-2-src.tar.bz2
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          7278 Jul  7 21:52 tin-1.5.9-3-cygwin.diff
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        955034 Jul  4 13:44 tin-1.5.9.tar.bz2

cygwin/tth:
total 687
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1356 Nov 14 18:41 index.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           705 Aug  9  2000 license.txt
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        266345 Sep 25 15:53 tth-3.0-1-src.tar.bz2
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        254026 Sep 25 15:52 tth-3.0-1.tar.bz2
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         13173 Sep 25 15:40 tth.1.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          7341 Mar 21  2000 tth.gif
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        156143 May 29 23:02 tth_manual.html

cygwin/ucl-0.92:
total 40
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         18094 Jul  6 10:35 COPYING
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          7538 Jul  6 10:35 INSTALL
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           525 Jul  6 10:35 NEWS
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          6265 Jul  6 10:35 README
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           743 Jul  6 10:35 THANKS
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           501 Jul  6 10:35 TODO
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1320 Nov 14 18:41 index.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1088 Jul  6 10:43 ucl-0.92-cygwin.README

cygwin/upx-1.20:
total 456
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1807 Jul 10 15:56 BUGS
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         18094 Jul  6 10:40 COPYING
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          5448 Jul  6 10:40 LICENSE
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          3378 Jul  6 10:40 LOADER.TXT
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         11137 Jul 10 15:57 NEWS
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          2526 Jul 10 15:57 PROJECTS
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          5000 Jul 10 15:57 README
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          4666 Jul 10 15:57 README.SRC
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          2218 Jul 10 15:57 THANKS
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          2326 Nov 14 18:42 index.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1580 Jul  6 10:43 upx-1.07-cygwin.README
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544          1806 Jul 10 15:55 upx-1.20-cygwin.README
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        204364 Jul 10 15:58 upx-1.20-src.tar.gz
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544        133283 Jul 10 15:59 upx-1.20.tar.bz2
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         19153 Jul 10 15:58 upx.doc
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         23611 Jul 10 15:58 upx.html
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544         18313 Jul 10 15:58 upx.pod

cygwin/xml:
total 1
-rwxrwxrwx    1 544           603 Nov 14 18:42 index.html





-- 
convey Information Systems GmbH                   http://www.convey.de/
                                                  Vitalisstraße 326-328
Gerrit P. Haase                                   D-50933 Köln
gerrit.haase@convey.de                            Fon: ++49 221 6903922


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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Robert Collins]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stipe Tolj" <tolj@wapme-systems.de>
To: "Robert Collins" <robert.collins@itdomain.com.au>
Cc: "Charles Wilson" <cwilson@ece.gatech.edu>; "Gerrit P. Haase"
<cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: new site for my ports is up


> > The site maintenance is actually pretty automatic now. Copy the file
to
> > the location, it's included. Delete the file, it's removed. Hmm
that's
> > easy :}.
>
> yes, considered in the raw uploading semantic. But what about
> regression testing and file conflicts. Basicly we tread tarballs as
> black-boxes without knowing (exactly) if the included files may mess
> up a installation/package in some way.

And? File conflicts we've discussed. They are bad while setup can't
detect them, but after that they are ok.
Any package linting we do _can not_ assume that all packages are stored
at redhat.com. Folk have local packages that they just drop in their
install tree, and we cannot predict what is in them. Therefore such
package linting is independent of the contents of the redhat master
site.

> I can't find that, what subject was the thread running under?

I dunno, check cygwin-apps, cgf for the last week.

> > Hmm, I don't agree. See my point about conflicts. Conflicts are
normal,
> > and to be expected. There is no point getting all automated about
> > detecting conflicts in packages until setup.exe can prevent the
users
> > installing those conflicting packages. Until that point, a check
every
> > month or three will probably suffice. An automated check on the
package
> > when it is put into the repository would also be great, but that
takes
> > tuit and I can think of other things that I'd like Chris to tuit
before
> > this (winsup/utils breakout specifically).
>
> I agree, a fully automated procedure is not what I'm intending, but a
> automation _support_.

I think I'm confused. You talked about a automatic upload + error
reporting system...

Rob


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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Robert Collins]

My 2c on the layout - package letter based make s more sense to me. (It
allows finding a package via ftp without knowing the category.)

The web interface should allow categorised and filename based search/views
though :}.

Rob
...
Chris said
> I did talk about that once, didn't I.
>
> The current setup.ini builder can't deal with that but it would be trivial
> to add, of course.
>
> I was going to give the new version of setup.exe some time before I made
> any other changes, though.  And, I have some infrastructure work that
> I want to do too, like improving the cygwin packages web page.




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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Robert Collins]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stipe Tolj" <tolj@wapme-systems.de>
> Apache goes by default to /usr/local/apache and should reside there
> for a cygwin based binary package that I'm currently preparing :))

Why should apache go to /usr/local/apache? Name one redhat/suse/debian
style amanaged linux distribution that puts apache there! The configure
script for _any_ package will need parameters given to it when building
a package to be included in cygwin.

Until now, no-one as raised the issue of changing _our_ standard, which
is that setup.exe installed software installs into / and /usr, not into
/usr/local. And I do not think we should change that. I don't believe
that the users will be served by us installing into /usr/local.

Rob

P.S. for reference:

Here's what some package managers do:
1) rpm. A package can install it's files anywhere and still be an rpm.
There is no rhyme or reason other than the packagers decision.
Distributors put all their generated rpm's into / and /usr, whilst
vendors creating rpms make their own choice.
2) deb. A package _always_ installs into / and /usr, and _never_ touches
/usr/local. /usr/local is reserved for user built and fiddled software,
and /usr for package-manager installed software. Thus coping out your
/home and /usr/local trees is all you need to do to preserve your
personal files.
3) ports. (OpenBSD specifically). The default install of the system
includes the kitchen sink, and the ports are all installed into
/usr/local, along with user compiled software.


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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Stipe Tolj]

> The site maintenance is actually pretty automatic now. Copy the file to
> the location, it's included. Delete the file, it's removed. Hmm that's
> easy :}.

yes, considered in the raw uploading semantic. But what about
regression testing and file conflicts. Basicly we tread tarballs as
black-boxes without knowing (exactly) if the included files may mess
up a installation/package in some way.

> >   1) supporting the (new) users the best way to get what they want,
> > aka "has someone ported foobar already to Cygwin?!"
> 
> Chris has this already - he generates an automatic list of packages on
> the cygwin site. See this list a few days back IIRC.

I can't find that, what subject was the thread running under?

> >   2) support the pacakge maintainers, i.e. by having a reference of
> > all used files and possible file conflicts within a database on the
> > site. A package maintainer should be able to "check-in" a new release
> > and roll a regression test on it before it gets publicaly available
> > and integrated to setup.ini.
> 
> Hmm, I don't agree. See my point about conflicts. Conflicts are normal,
> and to be expected. There is no point getting all automated about
> detecting conflicts in packages until setup.exe can prevent the users
> installing those conflicting packages. Until that point, a check every
> month or three will probably suffice. An automated check on the package
> when it is put into the repository would also be great, but that takes
> tuit and I can think of other things that I'd like Chris to tuit before
> this (winsup/utils breakout specifically).

I agree, a fully automated procedure is not what I'm intending, but a
automation _support_.


Stipe

tolj@wapme-systems.de
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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Charles Wilson]

Christopher Faylor wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 15, 2001 at 06:33:34PM -0500, Charles Wilson wrote:
> 
>>But latest and contrib are going away, AFAIRC.  Chris has a grand 
>>refactoring scheme where the packages actually live in a tree structure 
>>related to the primary category (Net, Base, Lib, Graphics, etc)
>>
>>right, Chris?
>>
> 
> I did talk about that once, didn't I.
> 
> The current setup.ini builder can't deal with that but it would be trivial
> to add, of course.
> 
> I was going to give the new version of setup.exe some time before I made
> any other changes, though.  And, I have some infrastructure work that
> I want to do too, like improving the cygwin packages web page.


Naturally.  In your original emails on this subject, it was clear that (to 
me) that this was a tuit issue.  I just wanted to point out that the idea 
of using "well installed.db sez it came from 'contrib' so it must be 
official" was not forward-looking enough.

--Chuck



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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Robert Collins]

===
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stipe Tolj" <tolj@wapme-systems.de>
To: "Robert Collins" <robert.collins@itdomain.com.au>
Cc: "Gerrit P. Haase" <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: new site for my ports is up


> > Why should apache go to /usr/local/apache? Name one
redhat/suse/debian
> > style amanaged linux distribution that puts apache there! The
configure
> > script for _any_ package will need parameters given to it when
building
> > a package to be included in cygwin.
> >
> > Until now, no-one as raised the issue of changing _our_ standard,
which
> > is that setup.exe installed software installs into / and /usr, not
into
> > /usr/local. And I do not think we should change that. I don't
believe
> > that the users will be served by us installing into /usr/local.
>
> If you consider point 3) from down I agree. There are some packages
> that do install into  /usr/local, or am I wrong here?!

No packages install into /usr/local on cygwin at the moment - you are
wrong here.

What a configure script defaults to is different to where *we* install
stuff.

Rob


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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Robert Collins]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stipe Tolj" <tolj@wapme-systems.de>


> The only point I have to critic is the lack in tools and mechanisms to
> maintain the packages "on the distribution" (site). I would like to
> see an integrated web site that focuses on two aims:

The site maintenance is actually pretty automatic now. Copy the file to
the location, it's included. Delete the file, it's removed. Hmm that's
easy :}.

>   1) supporting the (new) users the best way to get what they want,
> aka "has someone ported foobar already to Cygwin?!"

Chris has this already - he generates an automatic list of packages on
the cygwin site. See this list a few days back IIRC.

>   2) support the pacakge maintainers, i.e. by having a reference of
> all used files and possible file conflicts within a database on the
> site. A package maintainer should be able to "check-in" a new release
> and roll a regression test on it before it gets publicaly available
> and integrated to setup.ini.

Hmm, I don't agree. See my point about conflicts. Conflicts are normal,
and to be expected. There is no point getting all automated about
detecting conflicts in packages until setup.exe can prevent the users
installing those conflicting packages. Until that point, a check every
month or three will probably suffice. An automated check on the package
when it is put into the repository would also be great, but that takes
tuit and I can think of other things that I'd like Chris to tuit before
this (winsup/utils breakout specifically).

> > Some stuff cannot be distributed from the cygwin mirror system, for
> > legal or political reasons (think cygipc).  [BTW, Gerrit, I have NO
> > problems with you mirroring the cygipc package. Go ahead.  But don't
try
> > to submit it for inclusion in the official dist, 'cause it won't be
> > accepted]
>
> why is that?

cygipc is getting replaced (slowly) by a cygwin-integrated ipc daemon.
(BTW: chris, can you comment on the file layout for that, so that it can
be merged.)

As for other things, it's a case by case basis. Imagine a package that
has legal issues with being distributed from the US, for example.

Rob


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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Jochen Küpper]

On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 23:30:46 +1100 Robert Collins wrote:

Robert> ----- Original Message -----
Robert> From: "John Marshall" <jmarshall@acm.org>

>> Over in RPM land, I have users telling me that they want the

"some users" I hope. Definitely not all:)

>> >> /usr v /usr/local decision to be determined by whether something is
>> package managed (and thus uninstallable via rpm/setup), rather than
>> by whether it happens to come from the vendor.

That's a nice idea...

Robert> Good point.

But I don't think so. After all there is /usr for the vendor,
/usr/local for local stuff, and then there is still /opt and
("sometimes") /usr/local/opt. I think nowadays the best solution is to
put non-vendor non-local stuff into /opt.

And I can live with the current theme that a rpm I download is not
"local". But if it's not from the vendor, it obviousy isn't:)

>> So I get flamed for producing a .rpm that installs to /usr/local, and
>> am probably going to change to /usr because I think they're right.

Well, have you considered /opt?

Robert> I actually don't think that 'off-site' really means much w.r.t. where a
Robert> package installs. 

But it does mean soemthing in regard to where I look for that
package. If I nuke all of /usr but /usr/local and then reinstall the
vendor system, I expect my system to work as before (well, beside
config and such).

Greetings,
Jochen
-- 
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    Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité                GnuPG key: 44BCCD8E
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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Christopher Faylor]

On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 03:44:07PM -0500, Charles Wilson wrote:
>"Gerrit P. Haase" wrote:
>
>> I'm still uploading, at the end there will be all this stuff there:
>
>> cygwin/cygipc:
>> total 83
>> -rwxrwxrwx    1 544         83134 Oct 10 14:45 cygipc-1.10-1.tar.bz2
>> -rwxrwxrwx    1 544           753 Nov 14 18:38 index.html
>> 
>
>cygipc is GPL.  Where's the source?
>
>2nd question: do these packages install into /usr (bad) or into
>/usr/local (good)?  Only official ports -- those distributed by the
>cygwin mirror system and setup -- should live in /usr.

Another question:  Why a separate site?  Why not avoid the confusion and
submit the packages to the main release?

cgf

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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Charles Wilson]

John Marshall wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 05:56:45PM -0500, Charles Wilson wrote:
> 
>>My point was that the off-site versions should install into /usr/local
>>(or /opt/ or whatever, just *NOT* /usr).  When you're ready to
>>contribute them to the main dist, THEN (and only then) rebuild them to
>>install into /usr and upload (to sourceware) as a test release.
>>
> 
> Er, can you say why?


Way back at the dawn of time (which 1.1 was first released and "cygwin" was 
split into the many separate packages we now know and love) it was decided 
that "official" packages would install into /usr.

That's all.

Common courtesy then requires that if you are creating an *unofficial* 
package, that you do NOT put it into /usr, lest it be confused with an 
official version.


> Over in RPM land, I have users telling me that they want the
> /usr v /usr/local decision to be determined by whether something is
> package managed (and thus uninstallable via rpm/setup), rather than
> by whether it happens to come from the vendor.


Well, we certainly can't stop you from doing whatever you want.  However, I 
believe the LSB/FSH actually *does* say something about distribution-vendor 
supplied packages treated differently from "random" ones.  But I could be 
wrong (it's happened before).


> So I get flamed for producing a .rpm that installs to /usr/local, and
> am probably going to change to /usr because I think they're right.


If you are creating your own distribution, then *YOU* are the vendor.  You 
can put whatever you like into /usr.  or /fred.  Just don't refer your 
users to us.


> Many of my dumb users want to run Cygwin programs from a DOS window.
> So if I installed to /usr/local I would need to tell them to add two
> directories (C:\Cygwin\bin & C:\Cygwin\usr\local\bin) to their Windows
> PATH instead of one, increasing the scope for screwups.


Oh, the horror.  And msvcvar.bat doesn't add 4 or 5 dirs to the path?


> Currently I produce a package for Cygwin setup.exe that installs to
> /usr, and I'm about to start getting flamed for that too?  :-)


No.  We can't stop you, and really have no interest in flaming you about 
your personal cygwin-derived distribution.  Just so we don't get spillover 
questions on the list.


> Having off-site packages install to /usr/local on Cygwin would certainly
> show whether they were official or not (cf rpm -qi), but that information
> is already pretty much available in /etc/setup/installed.db if off-site
> people deliver their package tarballs to setup in a directory other than
> "latest" or "contrib".


But latest and contrib are going away, AFAIRC.  Chris has a grand 
refactoring scheme where the packages actually live in a tree structure 
related to the primary category (Net, Base, Lib, Graphics, etc)

right, Chris?

Oh, and long term, installed.db may become an actual database instead of a 
simple text file...

--Chuck


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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Robert Collins]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerrit P. Haase" <freeweb@nyckelpiga.de>
> BTW, is it possible to introduce a new path like '/opt' e.g. for
Apache, or
> should it better go in /usr/apache, /usr/mysql ...?

IMO use the FSH from the LSB as your guidelines.

Rob


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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Christopher Faylor]

On Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 12:47:12PM -0500, Charles Wilson wrote:
>
>>>No.  No multiple packages in the same directory.  Every package gets
>>>their own directory.
>>>
>>
>>Just to clarify: By "no multiple packages", I mean that I don't want to
>>see (to pick an extreme example) ash-blah.tar.bz2 and
>>binutils-blah-tar.bz2 in an ash+binutils directory.
>
>But subdirs are okay -- and already work.  E.g.:
>
>latest/ncurses/ncurses*.tar.bz2
>latest/ncurses/setup.hint (for the ncurses package)
>latest/ncurses/libncurses5/libncurses5*.tar.bz2
>latest/ncurses/libncurses5/setup.hint (for the libncurses5 package)
>latest/ncurses/libncurses6/libncurses6*.tar.bz2
>latest/ncurses/libncurses6/setup.hint (for the libncurses6 package)
>
>BUT, everything under latest/ncurses/ is directly related to ncurses itself.

One additional level of subdirs are ok.

cgf

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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Christopher Faylor]

On Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 04:15:56PM +1100, Robert Collins wrote:
>My mail is currently broken inbound... so I'm replying from the list
>archives..
>
>===
>Ah!  Sorry about that.
>
>The idea of putting things under categories was something that I
>originally proposed but I wasn't entirely sure that it was ok.
>
>I wonder if we shouldn't just dispense with any hierarchy at all and put
>all of the packages in their own subdirectory, like ftp.gnu.org?
>
>cgf
>===
>
>A flat structure may not scale efficiently on some systems. I was (for
>obvious reasons I hope) against a category based directory structure,
>but pretty much anything else should be fine :].
>
>As for putting multiple pacakges in the same dir - yes thats good but
>let me get setup.hint subsumed into the package file first...

No.  No multiple packages in the same directory.  Every package gets
their own directory.

cgf

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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Charles Wilson]

>>No.  No multiple packages in the same directory.  Every package gets
>>their own directory.
>>
> 
> Just to clarify: By "no multiple packages", I mean that I don't want to
> see (to pick an extreme example) ash-blah.tar.bz2 and
> binutils-blah-tar.bz2 in an ash+binutils directory.


But subdirs are okay -- and already work.  E.g.:

latest/ncurses/ncurses*.tar.bz2
latest/ncurses/setup.hint (for the ncurses package)
latest/ncurses/libncurses5/libncurses5*.tar.bz2
latest/ncurses/libncurses5/setup.hint (for the libncurses5 package)
latest/ncurses/libncurses6/libncurses6*.tar.bz2
latest/ncurses/libncurses6/setup.hint (for the libncurses6 package)

BUT, everything under latest/ncurses/ is directly related to ncurses itself.

--Chuck



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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Robert Collins]

My mail is currently broken inbound... so I'm replying from the list
archives..

===
Ah!  Sorry about that.

The idea of putting things under categories was something that I
originally proposed but I wasn't entirely sure that it was ok.

I wonder if we shouldn't just dispense with any hierarchy at all and put
all of the packages in their own subdirectory, like ftp.gnu.org?

cgf
===

A flat structure may not scale efficiently on some systems. I was (for
obvious reasons I hope) against a category based directory structure,
but pretty much anything else should be fine :].

As for putting multiple pacakges in the same dir - yes thats good but
let me get setup.hint subsumed into the package file first...

Rob


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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Robert Collins]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Faylor" <cgf@redhat.com>
>
> >As for putting multiple pacakges in the same dir - yes thats good but
> >let me get setup.hint subsumed into the package file first...
>
> No.  No multiple packages in the same directory.  Every package gets
> their own directory.

Any particular reason? (maintenance/security/...?/)

Rob


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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Christopher Faylor]

On Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 12:36:17AM +1100, Robert Collins wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Christopher Faylor" <cgf@redhat.com>
>>
>> >As for putting multiple pacakges in the same dir - yes thats good but
>> >let me get setup.hint subsumed into the package file first...
>>
>> No.  No multiple packages in the same directory.  Every package gets
>> their own directory.
>
>Any particular reason? (maintenance/security/...?/)

It's stupid?

cgf

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Re: new site for my ports is up

[David A. Cobb]

On 2001-11-16 14:51, Christopher Faylor wrote:

| Ah!  Sorry about that.

| The idea of putting things under categories was something that I
| originally proposed but I wasn't entirely sure that it was ok.

Pfttttt!  The categories are not necessarily obvious to the most casual 
observer.

| I wonder if we shouldn't just dispense with any hierarchy at all and
| put all of the packages in their own subdirectory, like ftp.gnu.org?
=================^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  SOUNDS GOOD TO ME :-)
-- 
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nice guy.
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fingerprint=on>
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Re: new site for my ports is up

[Christopher Faylor]

On Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 12:29:20PM -0500, Christopher Faylor wrote:
>On Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 04:15:56PM +1100, Robert Collins wrote:
>>My mail is currently broken inbound... so I'm replying from the list
>>archives..
>>
>>===
>>Ah!  Sorry about that.
>>
>>The idea of putting things under categories was something that I
>>originally proposed but I wasn't entirely sure that it was ok.
>>
>>I wonder if we shouldn't just dispense with any hierarchy at all and put
>>all of the packages in their own subdirectory, like ftp.gnu.org?
>>
>>cgf
>>===
>>
>>A flat structure may not scale efficiently on some systems. I was (for
>>obvious reasons I hope) against a category based directory structure,
>>but pretty much anything else should be fine :].
>>
>>As for putting multiple pacakges in the same dir - yes thats good but
>>let me get setup.hint subsumed into the package file first...
>
>No.  No multiple packages in the same directory.  Every package gets
>their own directory.

Just to clarify: By "no multiple packages", I mean that I don't want to
see (to pick an extreme example) ash-blah.tar.bz2 and
binutils-blah-tar.bz2 in an ash+binutils directory.

cgf

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