Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Franz Wolfhagen]

Be aware that there is commercial software that uses the cygwin1.dll.

One example is Tivoli Framework from IBM (which I happens to work with
proffesionally...).

To ensure that a dll is not interfering with other versions of the same dll
you must ensure that it is located in a directory that by default is NOT
included in the windows path. You should aælso familiarize yourself with
terms of dll search sequence and private dlls. This will help you
understand how to avoid conflicts of this kind.

Another (and much worse) example of a dll conflict is the infamous
MSVCRT40.Dll conflict that I belive any NT 4.0 system maintainer knows -
this problem shows exactly what problems may arise when people advice (or
just puts it) to move a dll into the %system% directory....

Med venlig hilsen / Regards
Franz Wolfhagen


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Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Robert Collins]

To get full use of cygwin1.dll I always place it's location in the system
path. Any commercial software using licenced cygwin1.dll versions may cause
trouble, but there is no excuse for folk redistributing the net release (GPL
cywin1.dll) to conflict with the cygwin setup.exe environment.

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Franz Wolfhagen" <FRANZW@dk.ibm.com>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system



Be aware that there is commercial software that uses the cygwin1.dll.

One example is Tivoli Framework from IBM (which I happens to work with
proffesionally...).

To ensure that a dll is not interfering with other versions of the same dll
you must ensure that it is located in a directory that by default is NOT
included in the windows path. You should aælso familiarize yourself with
terms of dll search sequence and private dlls. This will help you
understand how to avoid conflicts of this kind.



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RE: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Robert Collins]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cygwin-owner@cygwin.com 
> [mailto:cygwin-owner@cygwin.com] On Behalf Of Franz Wolfhagen
> Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2002 10:02 PM
> To: cygwin@cygwin.com

> And if the commercial software does their things right that SHOULD not
> cause any problems. But the real world shows differently...

I never claimed that no trouble would arise. Certainly system
integration issues will always crop up from time to time. My point was
that the proprietary providers [of cygwin1.dll] are receiving money -
therefor they support you. The non-proprietary providers are able to
leverage the gpl'd setup.exe installer, and all the other effort that
has been put in here to allow them to interoperate seamlessly.

As for needing support, yes well :}.

Rob
 


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Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Franz Wolfhagen]

And if the commercial software does their things right that SHOULD not
cause any problems. But the real world shows differently...

But please - go ahead and place your dlls wherever you want them - just
know that nobody else than yourselfe will be able to support you.

A better idea from mt point of view is to create a specific directory for
third party tools/dlls and ensure that it os loaded in the correct sequense
(i´this means that you might have to create more than one directory for
this purpose).

BTW, one of the real good things about cygwin is that you have an
environment that is halfways isolated from your normal windows system -
this is really what gives it the big value that you do not have to worry
about dlls and other stuff as long as you stay within cygwin bash (or
whatever shell you prefer...)

Med venlig hilsen / Regards
Franz Wolfhagen


"Robert Collins" <robert.collins@syncretize.net> on 10-07-2002 01:56:04

Please respond to "Robert Collins" <robert.collins@syncretize.net>

To:    <cygwin@cygwin.com>, Franz Wolfhagen/Denmark/IBM@IBMDK
cc:
Subject:    Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system


To get full use of cygwin1.dll I always place it's location in the system
path. Any commercial software using licenced cygwin1.dll versions may cause
trouble, but there is no excuse for folk redistributing the net release
(GPL
cywin1.dll) to conflict with the cygwin setup.exe environment.

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Franz Wolfhagen" <FRANZW@dk.ibm.com>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system



Be aware that there is commercial software that uses the cygwin1.dll.

One example is Tivoli Framework from IBM (which I happens to work with
proffesionally...).

To ensure that a dll is not interfering with other versions of the same dll
you must ensure that it is located in a directory that by default is NOT
included in the windows path. You should aælso familiarize yourself with
terms of dll search sequence and private dlls. This will help you
understand how to avoid conflicts of this kind.







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Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Christopher Faylor]

But...  but... I'm not impressing him!  That really hurts.

It defanitely hurts.

cgf

On Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 07:06:51PM -0400, Charles Wilson wrote:
>Troll.
>
>Dantin wrote:
>
>>Sounds to me someone needs to get off their high horse. Companys get bulk
>>licenses to put software on multiple machines. Quit being parinoid and
>>flashing around your position. I'm definately not impressed.
>>
>>                            Dantin

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Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Robert Collins]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dantin" <dachha@hamsfork.net>
To: "Cygwin Mailing List" <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system


>     Just thought I would forward this message to the mailing list other
than
> just sending to Robert. Sorry for the mis-communication.

Not a problem.

>                             Dantin
>
...
> > Oh in that case.. Oops sorry. No offense..

None taken by me :].

> >                       Dantin
> >
> > P.S. I thought cygwin was free though. Also they were talking about a
> > different product I wasn't aware that it was a cygwin release.

Cygwin is both free (for the Net Release), and proprietary (for folk that
spend lotsa money that goes to Redhat, hopefully to pay Chris :}).

Rob


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Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Dantin]

    Just thought I would forward this message to the mailing list other than
just sending to Robert. Sorry for the mis-communication.

                            Dantin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dantin" <dachha@hamsfork.net>
To: "Robert Collins" <robert.collins@syncretize.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system


> Oh in that case.. Oops sorry. No offense..
>
>                       Dantin
>
> P.S. I thought cygwin was free though. Also they were talking about a
> different product I wasn't aware that it was a cygwin release.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Collins" <robert.collins@syncretize.net>
> To: "Dantin" <dachha@hamsfork.net>; <cygwin@cygwin.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 4:58 PM
> Subject: Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dantin" <dachha@hamsfork.net>
> > To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 8:55 AM
> > Subject: Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system
> >
> >
> > > Sounds to me someone needs to get off their high horse. Companys get
> bulk
> > > licenses to put software on multiple machines. Quit being parinoid and
> > > flashing around your position. I'm definately not impressed.
> >
> > Cygwin1.dll is licenced under the GPL, which means it's source must be
> > provided by the distributor (whomever that may be), or as a proprietary
> > licence, of which very few have been issued. It's my understanding that
> > Chris knows exactly who has purchased a proprietary licence, and from
his
> > comment I presume IBM have not.
> >
> > So, no one is on a high horse, and bulk licences have no relevance here.
> > Paranoia is not when they are out to get you, and I don't recall Chris
> > flashing his position - he simply asked someone who has seen the .dll
> > installed (apparently) as part of a proprietary product, whether the
> install
> > included an offer for, or the sources - as per the GPL.
> >
> > Sounds to me like someone needs to pull his head in and think through
the
> > situation before commenting.
> >
> > Rob
> >
> >
> > --
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> >
>


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Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Charles Wilson]

Troll.

Dantin wrote:

> Sounds to me someone needs to get off their high horse. Companys get bulk
> licenses to put software on multiple machines. Quit being parinoid and
> flashing around your position. I'm definately not impressed.
> 
>                             Dantin




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Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Robert Collins]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dantin" <dachha@hamsfork.net>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system


> Sounds to me someone needs to get off their high horse. Companys get bulk
> licenses to put software on multiple machines. Quit being parinoid and
> flashing around your position. I'm definately not impressed.

Cygwin1.dll is licenced under the GPL, which means it's source must be
provided by the distributor (whomever that may be), or as a proprietary
licence, of which very few have been issued. It's my understanding that
Chris knows exactly who has purchased a proprietary licence, and from his
comment I presume IBM have not.

So, no one is on a high horse, and bulk licences have no relevance here.
Paranoia is not when they are out to get you, and I don't recall Chris
flashing his position - he simply asked someone who has seen the .dll
installed (apparently) as part of a proprietary product, whether the install
included an offer for, or the sources - as per the GPL.

Sounds to me like someone needs to pull his head in and think through the
situation before commenting.

Rob


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Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Dantin]

Sounds to me someone needs to get off their high horse. Companys get bulk
licenses to put software on multiple machines. Quit being parinoid and
flashing around your position. I'm definately not impressed.

                            Dantin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Faylor" <cgf@redhat.com>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system


> On Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 07:30:02AM -0400, Dr. Wayne Keen wrote:
> >Hmmm, Tivoli.  They put that stuff on my laptop at work, supposedly to
> >be able to do remote network maintainance stuff.  Screws up a lot.
> >When I get to work, I'll check it.
>
> Out of curiousity, do I need to tell our lawyers about this or does
> Tivoli make the source code available somehow?
>
> cgf
>
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Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Franz Wolfhagen]

I am pretty sure that IBM knows what they are doing - they have used the
cygwin things for many years now (and they include a gpl license).

They are only using precompiled GNU tools - mostly texttools to provide a
minimum posix-alike crossplatform for their system management portfolio.

The Tivoli Software itself is not built with cygwin - it is a mix of a
homebrewed ORB plus java and a lot of other IBM tools...

Med venlig hilsen / Regards
Franz Wolfhagen


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Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Lapo Luchini]

Christopher Faylor wrote:

>On Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 07:30:02AM -0400, Dr. Wayne Keen wrote:
>  
>
>>Hmmm, Tivoli.  They put that stuff on my laptop at work, supposedly to
>>be able to do remote network maintainance stuff.  Screws up a lot.
>>When I get to work, I'll check it.
>>    
>>
>Out of curiousity, do I need to tell our lawyers about this or does
>Tivoli make the source code available somehow?
>  
>
Doing a quick search for "cygwni" on www.tivoli.com it seems that Tivoli 
only needs a perl installation and it advises to use the one from 
ActivePerl website or cygwin website.
On their site there is no sign that Tivoli liks cygwin1.dll or 
derivatives, or else would have little sense to advise to download 
cygwin/perl from cygwin website.

This idnex page contains the link to all other relevant pages, under the 
"cygwin" element:
http://www.tivoli.com/support/public/Prodman/public_manuals/td/user_admin/GC32-0724-00/en_US/HTML/tlktms71.htm

-- 
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lapo@lapo.it (PGP & X.509 keys available)
http://www.lapo.it (ICQ UIN: 529796)




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Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Keen Wayne A Contr AFRL/MNGG]

Yes, you can download them.  Here is a link to the information on DS9

http://hea-www.harvard.edu/RD/ds9/

Wayne Keen 

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Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Christopher Faylor]

On Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 01:13:01PM -0500, Keen Wayne A Contr AFRL/MNGG wrote:
>Well, Chris, I did not find any cygwin1.dll installed by it here.  As I
>mumbled earlier, only ones
>I saw seemed to come from ds9. (SAOImage, the next generation).
>
>Only thing I really know about Tivoli is that it is some stuff that the base
>systems people
>make us put on all machines that is supposed to give then some capability to
>remotely
>adminster the system.  Oh yeah, I (an most others) get an error message from
>it on
>bootup. 
>
>Its not clear why such a beast would need cyugwin1.dll, maybe the prior
>author has more information.

I hope so.  Even if cygwin1.dll is not installed, any programs that use it
are GPLed, so you should be able to get the sources for the, too.

So, how about ds9, then?  Sources available?

cgf

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Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Keen Wayne A Contr AFRL/MNGG]

Well, Chris, I did not find any cygwin1.dll installed by it here.  As I
mumbled earlier, only ones
I saw seemed to come from ds9. (SAOImage, the next generation).

Only thing I really know about Tivoli is that it is some stuff that the base
systems people
make us put on all machines that is supposed to give then some capability to
remotely
adminster the system.  Oh yeah, I (an most others) get an error message from
it on
bootup. 

Its not clear why such a beast would need cyugwin1.dll, maybe the prior
author has more information.

Wayne Keen

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Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Christopher Faylor]

On Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 07:30:02AM -0400, Dr. Wayne Keen wrote:
>Hmmm, Tivoli.  They put that stuff on my laptop at work, supposedly to
>be able to do remote network maintainance stuff.  Screws up a lot.
>When I get to work, I'll check it.

Out of curiousity, do I need to tell our lawyers about this or does
Tivoli make the source code available somehow?

cgf

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Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Dr. Wayne Keen]

Hmmm, I found nothing under Tivoli, buuuuttttt....

I did find that DS9, which is the descendant of SAOImage,
a tool used for looking at images, apparently out not
one, but 2 different versions of cygwin1.dll on my
machine.  These extra versions have been there since
late March!  One is in the ds9 directory, one in the xpa,
which appears to also be associated with ds9. (Both
are in the Program Files directory.)

I did a quick google on this, I did not find any mention
of the installer doing this.  Ruby for example has a
warning on their page about using the windows installer /
binary putting a new version of cygwin1.dll on your machine,
and how to get around / avoid the situation.

Like I said, it was a quick google, so I may have missed
something.

Wayne Keen

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Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Dr. Wayne Keen]

Hmmm, Tivoli.  They put that stuff on my laptop at work, supposedly to be
able
to do remote network maintainance stuff.  Screws up a lot.  When I get to
work, I'll
check it.

Thanks,
Wayne Keen


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Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Charles Wilson]

Christopher Faylor wrote:

> 
> So, you should check for the existence of a cygwin1.dll.  If one exists
> and it is older than the one you're installing, replace it.  Otherwise,
> don't install cygwin1.dll.
> 
> You're asking for trouble otherwise.


Or, you can completely fork cygwin, and change:
   1) the dll name
   2) the shared memory name
   3) the registry key locations
   4) <catchall for whatever I forgot>

And roll your own "IvoWin".  (Remember, tho, cygwin is GPL; therefore 
IvoWin will be GPL and you must make the source code available to 
whomever you give the binary.  Ditto for your app - but that's already 
true for your app, since it currently links to cygwin itself)

Using cygwin's gcc to build your app might be tricky; if you use 
cygwin's gcc, then you'd need to build your app using something like:
   gcc -nostdlib a.o b.o c.o -livowin -luser32 -l......
It gets tricky.

Earnie Boyd did this several months ago, for use with mingw (the MSYS 
project).  Of course, his mods were quite a bit more drastic than 1-4 above.

--Chuck



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Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Charles Wilson]

Christopher Faylor wrote:

> 
> So, you should check for the existence of a cygwin1.dll.  If one exists
> and it is older than the one you're installing, replace it.  Otherwise,
> don't install cygwin1.dll.
> 
> You're asking for trouble otherwise.


Or, you can completely fork cygwin, and change:
   1) the dll name
   2) the shared memory name
   3) the registry key locations
   4) <catchall for whatever I forgot>

And roll your own "IvoWin".  (Remember, tho, cygwin is GPL; therefore 
IvoWin will be GPL and you must make the source code available to 
whomever you give the binary.  Ditto for your app - but that's already 
true for your app, since it currently links to cygwin itself)

Using cygwin's gcc to build your app might be tricky; if you use 
cygwin's gcc, then you'd need to build your app using something like:
   gcc -nostdlib a.o b.o c.o -livowin -luser32 -l......
It gets tricky.

Earnie Boyd did this several months ago, for use with mingw (the MSYS 
project).  Of course, his mods were quite a bit more drastic than 1-4 above.

--Chuck




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Re: Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Christopher Faylor]

On Mon, Jul 08, 2002 at 06:27:10PM -0500, Ivo Janssen wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Reading the FAQ, it seems it's impossible to have 2 versions of
>cygwin1.dll running on one system:
>(see http://cygwin.com/faq/faq_4.html#SEC51)
>
>I was wondering if there was a way around this.
>
>My problem is this: I'm pushing a cygwin application to desktops in
>my company. I'm distributing cygwin1.dll as part of that package,
>because most users don't have cygwin installed.

So, you should check for the existence of a cygwin1.dll.  If one exists
and it is older than the one you're installing, replace it.  Otherwise,
don't install cygwin1.dll.

You're asking for trouble otherwise.

cgf
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Concurrent versions of cygwin1.dll on one system

[Ivo Janssen]

Hi all,

Reading the FAQ, it seems it's impossible to have 2 versions of
cygwin1.dll running on one system:
(see http://cygwin.com/faq/faq_4.html#SEC51)

I was wondering if there was a way around this.

My problem is this: I'm pushing a cygwin application to desktops in
my company. I'm distributing cygwin1.dll as part of that package,
because most users don't have cygwin installed. A few users, tho, are
running Cygwin already, some with a different version. Which results
in above mentioned error message.
The app actually runs as a different NT user than the console-login.
('local system account' vs. 'logged in domain user'), but that
doesn't seem to make any difference.

Is there any way to run multiple versions of the cygwin1.dll?
The solutions I came up with are:
1. Use a manual shared memory key, so I can load my
   version of cygwin1.dll with a different shared region.
2. Let different NT users use different memory segments by default.
3. Or maybe, even while  bundling a cygwin1.dll with my application, it
   could try to load an existing dll before it tries to load the one
   in the current dir?

If anyone thinks any of these solutions are feasible, or if anyone
can come up with another solution to my problem, my gratefulness and
respect for that person would live on until my death...

Sincerely,

Ivo Janssen
cygwin@ivo.nu


-----
http://cygwin.com/faq/faq_4.html#SEC51

* Is it OK to have multiple copies of the DLL?

You should only have one copy of the Cygwin DLL on your system. If
you have multiple versions, they will conflict and cause problems.

If you get the error "shared region is corrupted" or "shared region
version mismatch" it means you have multiple versions of cygwin1.dll
running at the same time. This could happen, for example, if you
update cygwin1.dll without exiting all Cygwin apps (including inetd)
beforehand.

If you're trying to find multiple versions of the DLL that are
causing this problem, reboot first, in case DLL's still loaded in
memory are the cause. Then use the Windows System find utility to
search your whole machine, not just components in your PATH (as
'type' would do) or cygwin-mounted filesystems (as Cygwin 'find'
would do).
-----



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