From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8520 invoked by alias); 15 Nov 2001 23:14:55 -0000 Mailing-List: contact cygwin-help@sourceware.cygnus.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: cygwin-owner@sources.redhat.com Received: (qmail 8499 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2001 23:14:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oac40.hsc.uth.tmc.edu) (129.106.30.40) by sourceware.cygnus.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2001 23:14:53 -0000 Received: from GIRCH19 ([129.106.218.182]) by oac40.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 oac40 Jun 11 2001 16:23:30) with ESMTP id GMV78T00.L9F for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:14:53 -0600 From: Markus Hoenicka MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15348.19733.629000.227747@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 08:26:00 -0000 To: cygwin@cygwin.com Subject: Re: tetex-beta nitpicking [WAS: Re: no more package moratorium?] In-Reply-To: <001401c16e23$a6952ef0$2101a8c0@nomad> References: <001401c16e23$a6952ef0$2101a8c0@nomad> X-Mailer: VM 6.94 under Emacs 20.6.1 X-SW-Source: 2001-11/txt/msg00361.txt.bz2 Gary R Van Sickle writes: > Ok, so install IE then. Or get a newer version of Windows. Problem solved, > no? > When I hit my thumb with a hammer I can get some aspirin, put a bandage on it, and later get plastic surgery to make the thumb look like a human thumb again. Or I avoid hitting my thumb with a hammer. The solution is not to buy a new Windows or to use IE, but to use Cygwin TeX or fpTeX instead. > Or hey, better yet, install a 'real OS' like Linux that you'll *never* have > to update! Never did quite understand how exactly that worked.... > Tell me about it. I run Debian at home. I'd run Debian right here if my IT people would support this. > > (Please excuse my rants about MiKTeX. IMHO it is bad software design > > to couple a widely ported software like TeX to the Windows/IE update > > spiral by means of the installation software. The Cygwin and fpTeX > > installers show that this is not necessary) > > Neither work on Windows 3.1. Or DOS. I don't see how that then qualifies > as 'bad software design'. > Cygwin claims proudly on its homepage that it runs on every Win32 version except WinCE. This is good software design because it will install on the very Windows box that you happen to have. MikTeX is lousy software design because it hides TeX, which would also run on any Win32 version (except maybe WinCE), behind an installer that needs software components available only in a part of all Win32 installations. It is especially lousy because there is no technical reason to do so. The MiKTeX installer does *nothing* that the fpTeX installer or Cygwin setup.exe couldn't do. And the latter work with every Win32 version (except WinCE, of course). > Don't get me wrong Markus, I'm a far cry from Bill's biggest fan, and I'm > (trying to) use Cygwin's teTeX myself, but I don't think you're thinking is > entirely clear here. You're using Cygwin right? Hence Windows? Hence > you've chosen to get on that "Windows/IE update spiral"? I don't > understand; you'd prefer that Windows was the same now as it was in 1995? > Why not the same as it was in the even-worse-old-days of 3.1? Or 3.0? Or > 2.0? Or DOS? Time marches on, and not just in Windows-land: what was Linux > looking like back in '95? Will a '95-vintage Linux installation build and > run teTeX? > My perspective may be skewed, but I work in a department of approx. 100 people in Medical School, UT Houston. We have as many computers, with maybe 10 Macs, leaving 90 Windows boxes. Approx. 70 of these run WinNT, 10 or so Win95. Only those that were bought more or less recently run Win2000 or XP. Our IT department is not supposed to update our boxes just because Windows is so much fancier these days. As long as we can punch in our data, these boxes will run WinNT. And due to tons of virus problems with IE, the default browser is still Netscape 4.7. You have to keep conservative environments like these in mind when you tell everyone how easy it is to just buy a new Windows and pull a new IE every other month. > Jeez, now you got me ranting ;-). Sorry folks. > Has to be once in a while. regards, Markus -- Markus Hoenicka, PhD UT Houston Medical School Dept. of Integrative Biology and Pharmacology 6431 Fannin MSB4.114 Houston, TX 77030 (713) 500-6313, -7477 (713) 500-7444 (fax) Markus.Hoenicka@uth.tmc.edu http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hoenicka_markus/ -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/