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From: Fergus Henderson <fjh@cs.mu.OZ.AU>
To: Christopher Faylor <cgf@cygnus.com>
Cc: cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com
Subject: Re: Cygwin participation threshold
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:14:00 -0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <19990225191420.16813@mundook.cs.mu.OZ.AU> (raw)
In-Reply-To: < 19990224121846.A25762@cygnus.com >; from Christopher Faylor on Wed, Feb 24, 1999 at 12:18:46PM -0500

On 24-Feb-1999, Christopher Faylor <cgf@cygnus.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 25, 1999, Fergus Henderson wrote:
> >Yes, but you can write and distribute proprietry applications or even
> >proprietry kernel modules for Linux without paying anyone a license fee.
> >The same is not true for Cygwin (although it *was* true once, back around
> >version b16, when it was called gnu-win32).
> 
> True, but that is not the point.  I believe this whold thread started
> because I lamented the lack of people contributing directly to cygwin
> development.

You also asked why.  I believe that licensing may be one of the reasons why.
So I don't think my comment is beside the point.  You may disagree with me,
but I think we're talking about the same topic.

> The many contributors to the linux kernel do not do so
> because it is possible to develop proprietary code for linux.

That may not be their direct motivation, but I do think it is a
significant factor.  I think that if it were impossible to develop
proprietry code for Linux, then Linux would have a much smaller user
base, and there would be far fewer contributors to Linux.

> I don't consider companies who create proprietary kernel modules as
> contributing to linux development in any way.

The ability to create proprietry kernel modules is of little importance.
The ability to create proprietry applications is of much greater importance.

> Possibly they help indirectly
> by getting the word out about linux but that is a secondary and, IMO, very
> minor benefit.

I agree that the benefits are indirect and secondary.  However,
I don't think they should be ignored.

In addition to getting the word out, companies which develop proprietry
applications (or kernel modules) often also help

	(1) by using Linux, and in the process sometimes reporting
	    and/or fixing bugs in the kernel and/or the various
	    open-source applications that are part of Linux; sometimes
	    they will even add whole new features which are needed for
	    their proprietry application (or module); and

	(2) by providing software (or drivers) which other people need,
	    and thus encouraging those other people to use Linux,
	    leading to the same benefits as (1).

-- 
Fergus Henderson <fjh@cs.mu.oz.au>  |  "Binaries may die
WWW: < http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh >  |   but source code lives forever"
PGP: finger fjh@128.250.37.3        |     -- leaked Microsoft memo.

--
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Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID
From: Fergus Henderson <fjh@cs.mu.OZ.AU>
To: Christopher Faylor <cgf@cygnus.com>
Cc: cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com
Subject: Re: Cygwin participation threshold
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:02:00 -0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <19990225191420.16813@mundook.cs.mu.OZ.AU> (raw)
Message-ID: <19990228230200.-oryQo-RNQXZKzZtL4Q0Y0zEwV_jy5EKEwMSevvGVKc@z> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <19990224121846.A25762@cygnus.com>

On 24-Feb-1999, Christopher Faylor <cgf@cygnus.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 25, 1999, Fergus Henderson wrote:
> >Yes, but you can write and distribute proprietry applications or even
> >proprietry kernel modules for Linux without paying anyone a license fee.
> >The same is not true for Cygwin (although it *was* true once, back around
> >version b16, when it was called gnu-win32).
> 
> True, but that is not the point.  I believe this whold thread started
> because I lamented the lack of people contributing directly to cygwin
> development.

You also asked why.  I believe that licensing may be one of the reasons why.
So I don't think my comment is beside the point.  You may disagree with me,
but I think we're talking about the same topic.

> The many contributors to the linux kernel do not do so
> because it is possible to develop proprietary code for linux.

That may not be their direct motivation, but I do think it is a
significant factor.  I think that if it were impossible to develop
proprietry code for Linux, then Linux would have a much smaller user
base, and there would be far fewer contributors to Linux.

> I don't consider companies who create proprietary kernel modules as
> contributing to linux development in any way.

The ability to create proprietry kernel modules is of little importance.
The ability to create proprietry applications is of much greater importance.

> Possibly they help indirectly
> by getting the word out about linux but that is a secondary and, IMO, very
> minor benefit.

I agree that the benefits are indirect and secondary.  However,
I don't think they should be ignored.

In addition to getting the word out, companies which develop proprietry
applications (or kernel modules) often also help

	(1) by using Linux, and in the process sometimes reporting
	    and/or fixing bugs in the kernel and/or the various
	    open-source applications that are part of Linux; sometimes
	    they will even add whole new features which are needed for
	    their proprietry application (or module); and

	(2) by providing software (or drivers) which other people need,
	    and thus encouraging those other people to use Linux,
	    leading to the same benefits as (1).

-- 
Fergus Henderson <fjh@cs.mu.oz.au>  |  "Binaries may die
WWW: < http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh >  |   but source code lives forever"
PGP: finger fjh@128.250.37.3        |     -- leaked Microsoft memo.

--
Want to unsubscribe from this list?
Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com


  parent reply	other threads:[~1999-02-25  0:14 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 108+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1999-02-16  7:41 Cygwin B20 - fseek under gcc fails to reposition on text files Earnie Boyd
     [not found] ` < 19990216154134.3413.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com >
1999-02-16 17:52   ` Christopher Faylor
     [not found]     ` < 19990216205243.L16511@cygnus.com >
1999-02-16 18:18       ` DJ Delorie
1999-02-28 23:02         ` DJ Delorie
1999-02-17  2:01     ` Corinna Vinschen
1999-02-17  9:36       ` Re[2]: " Paul Sokolovsky
     [not found]         ` < 17817.990217@is.lg.ua >
1999-02-17 10:07           ` DJ Delorie
     [not found]             ` < 199902171807.NAA16764@envy.delorie.com >
1999-02-17 19:16               ` Larry Hall
     [not found]                 ` < 3.0.5.32.19990217221306.0162b070@pop.ma.ultranet.com >
1999-02-17 19:19                   ` DJ Delorie
     [not found]                     ` < 199902180318.WAA20394@envy.delorie.com >
1999-02-17 20:13                       ` Larry Hall
1999-02-28 23:02                         ` Larry Hall
1999-02-28 23:02                     ` DJ Delorie
1999-02-28 23:02                 ` Larry Hall
1999-02-28 23:02             ` DJ Delorie
1999-02-17 13:37         ` Corinna Vinschen
1999-02-19  2:30           ` Re[2]: " Paul Sokolovsky
     [not found]             ` < 17776.990218@is.lg.ua >
1999-02-19  6:36               ` Christopher Faylor
1999-02-22  3:26                 ` Re[2]: " Paul Sokolovsky
     [not found]                   ` < 13561.990222@is.lg.ua >
1999-02-22  8:55                     ` Cygwin participation threshold DJ Delorie
     [not found]                       ` < 199902221654.LAA07362@envy.delorie.com >
1999-02-22 10:33                         ` Carl Zmola
     [not found]                           ` < 19990222183222023.AAA254@carl_zmola >
1999-02-22 11:21                             ` Fergus Henderson
1999-02-28 23:02                               ` Fergus Henderson
1999-02-22 12:32                             ` DJ Delorie
1999-02-28 23:02                               ` DJ Delorie
1999-02-24  0:08                             ` Christopher Faylor
     [not found]                               ` < 19990223214848.A23525@cygnus.com >
1999-02-24  5:51                                 ` Fergus Henderson
     [not found]                                   ` < 19990225005148.53402@mundook.cs.mu.OZ.AU >
1999-02-24  9:18                                     ` Christopher Faylor
1999-02-24 19:23                                       ` Weiqi Gao
     [not found]                                         ` < 36D4C298.32C1C355@a.crl.com >
1999-02-25  0:23                                           ` Fergus Henderson
1999-02-25  6:01                                             ` Weiqi Gao
1999-02-25 13:48                                               ` Re[2]: " Paul Sokolovsky
1999-02-28 23:02                                                 ` Paul Sokolovsky
1999-02-28 23:02                                               ` Weiqi Gao
1999-02-28 23:02                                             ` Fergus Henderson
1999-02-28 23:02                                         ` Weiqi Gao
     [not found]                                       ` < 19990224121846.A25762@cygnus.com >
1999-02-25  0:14                                         ` Fergus Henderson [this message]
     [not found]                                           ` < 19990225191420.16813@mundook.cs.mu.OZ.AU >
1999-02-25  1:00                                             ` Lam Pui Yuen
     [not found]                                               ` < Pine.BSI.3.95.990225170005.16688A-100000@topaz.hknet.com >
1999-02-25  1:09                                                 ` Lam Pui Yuen
1999-02-28 23:02                                                   ` Lam Pui Yuen
1999-02-28 23:02                                               ` Lam Pui Yuen
1999-02-28 23:02                                           ` Fergus Henderson
1999-02-28 23:02                                       ` Christopher Faylor
1999-02-28 23:02                                   ` Fergus Henderson
1999-02-24 10:37                                 ` Carl Zmola
     [not found]                                   ` < 19990224183738302.AAA218@carl_zmola >
1999-02-24 10:44                                     ` Christopher Faylor
     [not found]                                       ` < 19990224134450.B26262@cygnus.com >
1999-02-24 10:48                                         ` Carl Zmola
1999-02-28 23:02                                           ` Carl Zmola
1999-02-28 23:02                                       ` Christopher Faylor
1999-02-28 23:02                                   ` Carl Zmola
1999-02-28 23:02                               ` Christopher Faylor
1999-02-28 23:02                           ` Carl Zmola
1999-02-28 23:02                       ` DJ Delorie
1999-02-28 23:02                   ` Re[2]: Cygwin B20 - fseek under gcc fails to reposition on text files Paul Sokolovsky
1999-02-28 23:02                 ` Christopher Faylor
1999-02-28 23:02             ` Re[2]: " Paul Sokolovsky
1999-02-28 23:02           ` Corinna Vinschen
1999-02-28 23:02         ` Re[2]: " Paul Sokolovsky
     [not found]       ` < 36CA92B5.844635AA@cityweb.de >
1999-02-17  8:07         ` DJ Delorie
1999-02-28 23:02           ` DJ Delorie
1999-02-17 13:46         ` J. J. Farrell
1999-02-28 23:02           ` J. J. Farrell
1999-02-28 23:02       ` Corinna Vinschen
1999-02-28 23:02     ` Christopher Faylor
1999-02-28 23:02 ` Earnie Boyd
1999-02-22  9:10 Cygwin participation threshold Suhaib M. Siddiqi
     [not found] ` < 008401be5e87$f1dcd510$29acdfd0@InspirePharm.Com >
1999-02-22 11:38   ` DJ Delorie
1999-02-28 23:02     ` DJ Delorie
1999-02-28 23:02 ` Suhaib M. Siddiqi
1999-02-22 13:00 Suhaib M. Siddiqi
1999-02-28 23:02 ` Suhaib M. Siddiqi
1999-02-22 20:54 Tom St Denis
1999-02-28 23:02 ` Tom St Denis
1999-02-24 10:55 Steve Morris
     [not found] ` < 199902241855.NAA16459@brocade.nexen.com >
1999-02-24 12:40   ` Christopher Faylor
1999-02-24 13:13     ` Re[2]: " Paul Sokolovsky
     [not found]       ` < 2965.990224@is.lg.ua >
1999-02-24 13:21         ` Christopher Faylor
     [not found]           ` < 19990224162212.A27405@cygnus.com >
1999-02-25 22:51             ` Geoffrey Noer
     [not found]               ` < 19990225225149.A1388@cygnus.com >
1999-02-26  7:26                 ` Larry Hall
1999-02-28 23:02                   ` Larry Hall
1999-02-28 23:02               ` Geoffrey Noer
1999-02-28 23:02           ` Christopher Faylor
     [not found]     ` < 19990224154034.E26668@cygnus.com >
1999-02-24 13:50       ` DJ Delorie
1999-02-28 23:02         ` DJ Delorie
1999-02-26  8:27       ` Steve Morris
     [not found]         ` < 199902261627.LAA18993@brocade.nexen.com >
1999-02-27  7:49           ` Todd Goodman
1999-02-28 23:02             ` Todd Goodman
1999-02-28 23:02         ` Steve Morris
1999-02-26  8:55       ` Steve Morris
1999-02-28 23:02         ` Steve Morris
1999-02-28 23:02     ` Christopher Faylor
1999-02-24 12:46 ` Re[2]: " Paul Sokolovsky
     [not found]   ` < 15947.990224@is.lg.ua >
1999-02-24 13:28     ` Christopher Faylor
     [not found]       ` < 19990224162911.A27461@cygnus.com >
1999-02-24 14:16         ` Mumit Khan
1999-02-28 23:02           ` Mumit Khan
1999-02-28 23:02       ` Christopher Faylor
1999-02-28 23:02 ` Steve Morris
1999-02-24 13:43 Ken Thompson
1999-02-28 23:02 ` Ken Thompson
1999-02-25 10:09 Bernard Dautrevaux
1999-02-28 23:02 ` Bernard Dautrevaux
1999-02-25 10:24 Suhaib M. Siddiqi
     [not found] ` < 004c01be60ee$09a84c20$29acdfd0@InspirePharm.Com >
1999-02-25 10:36   ` DJ Delorie
1999-02-28 23:02     ` DJ Delorie
1999-02-28 23:02 ` Suhaib M. Siddiqi
1999-02-26  0:26 Bernard Dautrevaux
     [not found] ` < 8135911A809AD211AF6300A02480D175034922@iis000.microdata.fr >
1999-02-26  8:40   ` DJ Delorie
1999-02-28 23:02     ` DJ Delorie
1999-02-28 23:02 ` Bernard Dautrevaux
1999-02-28 16:22 Christopher G. Faylor
1999-02-28 23:02 ` Christopher G. Faylor

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