* RE: text vs binary mode yet again
@ 1999-03-10 6:21 Peter Ring
1999-03-31 19:45 ` Peter Ring
0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: Peter Ring @ 1999-03-10 6:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 'Fergus Henderson', 'cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com'
I use cygwin and Gnu tools because I need the functionality that
fileutils, textutils et al. provides, but on a Windows NT box.
And I prefer tar, cat and pipes not to mess with the contents
of my files except when told to.
Problems are no better or worse on Linux. Well, perhaps a bit worse,
since Windows NT has quite good Unicode support. Windows application
are in general better at supporting 'foreign' conventions than
either MacOS or Unix applications (with some editors like Emacs as
notable exceptions).
But you miss the point completely. In a mixed file system environment,
applications have no way of inferring which convention to follow re.
linebreaks, except not to mess them up. I.e., if a 'text' file appears
to use \xA as record separator, write that; if \xD\xA, write that;
if \xD, write that. For new files, you have to ask the user or infer
from a broader context than 'the current OS'.
BTW, if you are told that a file is a 'text' file, which encoding do
you expect it to use ?
7-bit encoding, ISO 646-1973 IRV (any other in widespread use?)
8-bit encoding, UTF-8, IBM CP-437, MS CP-1252, ISO Latin 1..n, etc.
16-bit encoding, UTF-16, various Japaneese, Chinese, Korean etc.
IMHO, the only thing that 'text' files have in common is that you
can expect some sort of record separator.
Kind regards
Peter Ring
-----Original Message-----
From: Fergus Henderson [ mailto:fjh@cs.mu.OZ.AU ]
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 1999 01:13
To: cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com
Subject: text vs binary mode yet again
<snip>
If you're using cygwin at all, it's presumably because compatibility
with existing software is of some concern. Otherwise, just use Linux!
> >> Why should I want to open a file in 'text' mode? What if I run
> >> a cygwin application to write a 'text' file that is part of a
> >> MacOS application? I need three different record separators,
> >> and I can't infer which to use just from what OS the
> >> application is running on. BTW, this is an actual example of
> >> what I use cygwin tools for.
In that particular case, you wouldn't want to open the file in text
mode.
But there are plenty of other cases where text mode does make sense.
<snip>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* RE: text vs binary mode yet again
1999-03-10 6:21 text vs binary mode yet again Peter Ring
@ 1999-03-31 19:45 ` Peter Ring
0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Peter Ring @ 1999-03-31 19:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 'Fergus Henderson', 'cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com'
I use cygwin and Gnu tools because I need the functionality that
fileutils, textutils et al. provides, but on a Windows NT box.
And I prefer tar, cat and pipes not to mess with the contents
of my files except when told to.
Problems are no better or worse on Linux. Well, perhaps a bit worse,
since Windows NT has quite good Unicode support. Windows application
are in general better at supporting 'foreign' conventions than
either MacOS or Unix applications (with some editors like Emacs as
notable exceptions).
But you miss the point completely. In a mixed file system environment,
applications have no way of inferring which convention to follow re.
linebreaks, except not to mess them up. I.e., if a 'text' file appears
to use \xA as record separator, write that; if \xD\xA, write that;
if \xD, write that. For new files, you have to ask the user or infer
from a broader context than 'the current OS'.
BTW, if you are told that a file is a 'text' file, which encoding do
you expect it to use ?
7-bit encoding, ISO 646-1973 IRV (any other in widespread use?)
8-bit encoding, UTF-8, IBM CP-437, MS CP-1252, ISO Latin 1..n, etc.
16-bit encoding, UTF-16, various Japaneese, Chinese, Korean etc.
IMHO, the only thing that 'text' files have in common is that you
can expect some sort of record separator.
Kind regards
Peter Ring
-----Original Message-----
From: Fergus Henderson [ mailto:fjh@cs.mu.OZ.AU ]
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 1999 01:13
To: cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com
Subject: text vs binary mode yet again
<snip>
If you're using cygwin at all, it's presumably because compatibility
with existing software is of some concern. Otherwise, just use Linux!
> >> Why should I want to open a file in 'text' mode? What if I run
> >> a cygwin application to write a 'text' file that is part of a
> >> MacOS application? I need three different record separators,
> >> and I can't infer which to use just from what OS the
> >> application is running on. BTW, this is an actual example of
> >> what I use cygwin tools for.
In that particular case, you wouldn't want to open the file in text
mode.
But there are plenty of other cases where text mode does make sense.
<snip>
--
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Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* RE: ÃANNÃ
Cygwin DEV survey
@ 1999-03-09 7:58 Peter Ring
1999-03-09 10:02 ` _FANNE_Cygwin_DEV_survey Dr. Volker Zell
0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: Peter Ring @ 1999-03-09 7:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 'Cygwin'
[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2208 bytes --]
Re text/binary:
NOTEPAD is not a text editor. It is a bug. NOTEPAD compatibility
is not a valid concern. Seriously!
Why hang on to ancient conventions such as the distinction between
binary and text mode?
It is useless anyway. It _used_ to be like that if a file was 'text',
it was ASCII (aka ISO 646) text, and could be transmitted safely through
7-bit channels.
That was long ago. Most of my 'text' files use 8-bit or 16-bit character
sets, and you have to know beforehand, 'cause the file itself doesn't
say
what character set is used. I don't want any automatic conversion of any
characters, and I most certainly don't want truncation at first ^Z.
Why should I want to open a file in 'text' mode? What if I run a cygwin
application to write a 'text' file that is part of a MacOS application?
I need three different record separators, and I can't infer which to use
just from what OS the application is running on. BTW, this is an actual
example of what I use cygwin tools for.
Kind regards
Peter Ring.
-----Original Message-----
From: Earnie Boyd [ mailto:earnie_boyd@yahoo.com ]
Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 14:49
To: Smith, Martin; Cygwin
Cc: 'tolj@uni-duesseldorf.de'
Subject: RE: ÃANNÃ
Cygwin DEV survey
---"Smith, Martin" <martin@exchange.Scotland.NCR.COM> wrote:
8<
> * What about text/binary mounts - I get the feeling binary mounts are
> preferred for most applications but, by default, the Cygnus tools
install
> with text mounts. Is it wise to change this to binary for a
'development'
> install or not?
8<
NO! The preferred method is text mounts. That is the reason for the
default. If a program requires binary mounts then the program isn't
properly ported. Switching to binary mounts causes other problems.
In a program always _SPECIFY_ whether it is to be opened for text mode
processing or binary mode processing, don't rely on the default. A
file should be opened for text mode processing if the file can
potentially be read or created by humans with a text mode editor, such
as NOTEPAD. All other files should be opened for binary mode
processing.
<snip>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: _FANNE_Cygwin_DEV_survey
@ 1999-03-09 10:02 ` Dr. Volker Zell
[not found] ` < 4798-Tue09Mar1999190417+0100-vzell@de.oracle.com >
0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: Dr. Volker Zell @ 1999-03-09 10:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: PRI; +Cc: cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com
>> Re text/binary: NOTEPAD is not a text editor. It is a
>> bug. NOTEPAD compatibility is not a valid concern. Seriously!
>> Why hang on to ancient conventions such as the distinction
>> between binary and text mode?
>> It is useless anyway. It _used_ to be like that if a file was
>> 'text', it was ASCII (aka ISO 646) text, and could be
>> transmitted safely through 7-bit channels.
>> That was long ago. Most of my 'text' files use 8-bit or 16-bit
>> character sets, and you have to know beforehand, 'cause the
>> file itself doesn't say what character set is used. I don't
>> want any automatic conversion of any characters, and I most
>> certainly don't want truncation at first ^Z.
>> Why should I want to open a file in 'text' mode? What if I run
>> a cygwin application to write a 'text' file that is part of a
>> MacOS application? I need three different record separators,
>> and I can't infer which to use just from what OS the
>> application is running on. BTW, this is an actual example of
>> what I use cygwin tools for.
Finally, somebody ... :-)
>> Kind regards
>> Peter Ring.
Volker
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1999-03-10 6:21 text vs binary mode yet again Peter Ring
1999-03-31 19:45 ` Peter Ring
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1999-03-09 7:58 ÃANNÃ Cygwin DEV survey Peter Ring
1999-03-09 10:02 ` _FANNE_Cygwin_DEV_survey Dr. Volker Zell
[not found] ` < 4798-Tue09Mar1999190417+0100-vzell@de.oracle.com >
1999-03-09 16:13 ` text vs binary mode yet again Fergus Henderson
1999-03-31 19:45 ` Fergus Henderson
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