RE: file-system layout in b20.2+ [Re: yikes, what are these?]

RE: file-system layout in b20.2+ [Re: yikes, what are these?]

[Phil Edwards]

> /cygwin/<version>
> but then have the installer create the appropriate symbolic links or mount
> points to /usr,/bin,/etc et-al such that  /etc is actually a (mount point or
> symbolic link) to /cygwin/<version>/etc.

Why should we have to manually do what every other half-decent Unix out
there does automatically?

All you have to do is install /cygwin/<version> and let it create all its
little directories under that (without the hardcoded H-* stuff; if it had
just been *called* usr I would have understood what was happening much
earlier :-).

Then all you have to do is mount /cygwin/<version> as / and everything
else will fall in as you want:  /etc will be /cygwin/<version>/etc, and
so forth.


>  I would also like to see the
> installer automatically mount / to C:\
>
> This would provide a unix friendly envionment for compiling and installing
> things, as you mentioned above, but would leave / as C:\  which IMHO is a
> logical way of doing things.

Why?  C:\ contains nothing but project-related data on my system (and as of
yesterday, my cygwin home directory).  Why is that a logical choice?

Oh, were you looking for the system drive?  Ah, that'd be D: on my system,
C: on a coworker's system, and F: on another coworker's system.  Perhaps
you should not make the same mistake as every Win9x programmer seems to make,
and look for %WINDIR% or %SystemDrive% instead.

Still, I don't see what mapping the Winblows drive to / gets us.


> As far as changing to another version is concerned, instead of one or two
> registry entries to modify, you would need a number of them, but this could
> still be handled by a simple program, etc.

Or just unmount / and remount a different /cygwin/<version> as /.  Uh, maybe.
I'm leery of changing versions or reinstalling, because I don't want to have
to set up all the mount points all over again.

(Speaking of which, surely the idea of /etc/[vx]fstab has come up.  What was
the reason for not using it?  Or *some* kind of text file representation
of mount points?)


(If you reply to the list, please don't cc another copy to me.  Thanks!)
Phil


--
Want to unsubscribe from this list?
Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com

RE: file-system layout in b20.2+ [Re: yikes, what are these?]

[Phil Edwards]

> /cygwin/<version>
> but then have the installer create the appropriate symbolic links or mount
> points to /usr,/bin,/etc et-al such that  /etc is actually a (mount point or
> symbolic link) to /cygwin/<version>/etc.

Why should we have to manually do what every other half-decent Unix out
there does automatically?

All you have to do is install /cygwin/<version> and let it create all its
little directories under that (without the hardcoded H-* stuff; if it had
just been *called* usr I would have understood what was happening much
earlier :-).

Then all you have to do is mount /cygwin/<version> as / and everything
else will fall in as you want:  /etc will be /cygwin/<version>/etc, and
so forth.


>  I would also like to see the
> installer automatically mount / to C:\
>
> This would provide a unix friendly envionment for compiling and installing
> things, as you mentioned above, but would leave / as C:\  which IMHO is a
> logical way of doing things.

Why?  C:\ contains nothing but project-related data on my system (and as of
yesterday, my cygwin home directory).  Why is that a logical choice?

Oh, were you looking for the system drive?  Ah, that'd be D: on my system,
C: on a coworker's system, and F: on another coworker's system.  Perhaps
you should not make the same mistake as every Win9x programmer seems to make,
and look for %WINDIR% or %SystemDrive% instead.

Still, I don't see what mapping the Winblows drive to / gets us.


> As far as changing to another version is concerned, instead of one or two
> registry entries to modify, you would need a number of them, but this could
> still be handled by a simple program, etc.

Or just unmount / and remount a different /cygwin/<version> as /.  Uh, maybe.
I'm leery of changing versions or reinstalling, because I don't want to have
to set up all the mount points all over again.

(Speaking of which, surely the idea of /etc/[vx]fstab has come up.  What was
the reason for not using it?  Or *some* kind of text file representation
of mount points?)


(If you reply to the list, please don't cc another copy to me.  Thanks!)
Phil


--
Want to unsubscribe from this list?
Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com

Re: file-system layout in b20.2+ [Re: yikes, what are these?]

[Chris Faylor]

On Thu, Jun 17, 1999 at 02:38:40PM -0500, Mumit Khan wrote:
>cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com writes:
>> 
>> What I'm trying to say, is that, with the possible exception of bison
>> (which will be fixed in the next release) nothing should be relying
>> on builtin path names using the funky H-*/i-* subdirectory structure.
>> Feel free to move things into more UNIX-friendly locations.
>> 
>> In fact, that's what we'll be doing in the next release.
>> 
>
>Chris,
>
>Thanks for the good news. It's never too late to do the right thing ;-)
>
>What I would like to see is that Cygwin installs to a virtual root that
>can be anywhere on the physical disk.
>
>I really don't want c:/usr etc on my disk, but would rather have the
>choice to do the following: install Cygwin b20.2+ to /cygwin/cygwin-b20.2
>and the installer set that to be '/'. If I want to switch to 20.1, I
>can simply change the key (via env var or registry, whichever works), 
>and (and perhaps reboot or kill all running Cygwin apps) and go.

That's what I'm planning on doing.  You choose the root and everything
installs under there.

Of course, I first have a memory corruption problem to solve before I
can even think about this.  And, DJ is busy with other interesting stuff...

cgf

--
Want to unsubscribe from this list?
Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com

Re: file-system layout in b20.2+ [Re: yikes, what are these?]

[itz]

   Mailing-List: contact cygwin-help@sourceware.cygnus.com; run by ezmlm
   Precedence: bulk
   Sender: cygwin-owner@sourceware.cygnus.com
   Delivered-To: mailing list cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com
   From: "Robert Campbell" <campbell@calgary.paradigmgeo.com>
   Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:41:05 -0600
   Mime-Version: 1.0
   Content-Type: text/plain;
           charset="iso-8859-1"
   Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
   X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
   X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
   X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0
   X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
   Importance: Normal

   > SNIP SNIP
   >
   > Thanks for the good news. It's never too late to do the right thing ;-)
   >
   > What I would like to see is that Cygwin installs to a virtual root that
   > can be anywhere on the physical disk.
   >
   > I really don't want c:/usr etc on my disk, but would rather have the
   > choice to do the following: install Cygwin b20.2+ to /cygwin/cygwin-b20.2
   > and the installer set that to be '/'. If I want to switch to 20.1, I
   > can simply change the key (via env var or registry, whichever works),
   > and (and perhaps reboot or kill all running Cygwin apps) and go.

   I Disagree (in part).  I would like to see Cygwin installed to
   /cygwin/<version>
   but then have the installer create the appropriate symbolic links or mount
   points to /usr,/bin,/etc et-al such that  /etc is actually a (mount point or
   symbolic link) to /cygwin/<version>/etc.  I would also like to see the
   installer automatically mount / to C:\

An extremely bad idea.  I have all cygwin related stuff on D: to
provide as much separation as possible between the Win and Unix
worlds.  This actually saved my a**e when I could no longer boot and
had to reformat my C: drive and reinstall NT.

-- 
Ian Zimmerman
Lightbinders, Inc.
2325 3rd Street #324
San Francisco, California 94107
U.S.A.

--
Want to unsubscribe from this list?
Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com

Re: file-system layout in b20.2+ [Re: yikes, what are these?]

[Mumit Khan]

I had written earlier:
> 
> I can do this with just one registry key that the pathname lookup code
> uses. If I had some free time, I could almost get the current snapshot 
> to do this, but since Chris is already working on this, I'll just wait 
> and get it for free ;-)

I clearly misspoke here. Chris Faylor is not working on such a feature.
My apologies for any confusion that this may have caused.

However, the fact remains that once the Unix like file system layout is
installed, it's a simple matter of mounting the <installdir> to '/' and
then it looks just like any other Unix box.

I'm looking forward to it, whenever it may happen.

Regards,
Mumit


--
Want to unsubscribe from this list?
Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com

Re: file-system layout in b20.2+ [Re: yikes, what are these?]

[Mumit Khan]

"Robert Campbell" <campbell@calgary.paradigmgeo.com> writes:
> 
> I Disagree (in part).  I would like to see Cygwin installed to
> /cygwin/<version>
> but then have the installer create the appropriate symbolic links or mount
> points to /usr,/bin,/etc et-al such that  /etc is actually a (mount point or
> symbolic link) to /cygwin/<version>/etc.  

Could you please elaborate as why you prefer this approach? I don't like
multiple symbolic links when a cleanly (single) rooted system is viable
and available for free.

> I would also like to see the
> installer automatically mount / to C:\

Please, no. This is simply a bad idea no matter how you look at it.

> This would provide a unix friendly envionment for compiling and installing
> things, as you mentioned above, but would leave / as C:\  which IMHO is a
> logical way of doing things.

Why is 'C:\' naturally '/'? I don't follow. 'C:\' may be more natural to
Windows32, but has nothing to do with Cygwin, which will translate the
paths appropriate before calling win32 API and interfacing with the
system.

> As far as changing to another version is concerned, instead of one or two
> registry entries to modify, you would need a number of them, but this could
> still be handled by a simple program, etc.

I can do this with just one registry key that the pathname lookup code
uses. If I had some free time, I could almost get the current snapshot 
to do this, but since Chris is already working on this, I'll just wait 
and get it for free ;-)

Thanks for your comments on this. 

Regards,
Mumit


--
Want to unsubscribe from this list?
Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com

RE: file-system layout in b20.2+ [Re: yikes, what are these?]

[Robert Campbell]

> SNIP SNIP
>
> Thanks for the good news. It's never too late to do the right thing ;-)
>
> What I would like to see is that Cygwin installs to a virtual root that
> can be anywhere on the physical disk.
>
> I really don't want c:/usr etc on my disk, but would rather have the
> choice to do the following: install Cygwin b20.2+ to /cygwin/cygwin-b20.2
> and the installer set that to be '/'. If I want to switch to 20.1, I
> can simply change the key (via env var or registry, whichever works),
> and (and perhaps reboot or kill all running Cygwin apps) and go.

I Disagree (in part).  I would like to see Cygwin installed to
/cygwin/<version>
but then have the installer create the appropriate symbolic links or mount
points to /usr,/bin,/etc et-al such that  /etc is actually a (mount point or
symbolic link) to /cygwin/<version>/etc.  I would also like to see the
installer automatically mount / to C:\

This would provide a unix friendly envionment for compiling and installing
things, as you mentioned above, but would leave / as C:\  which IMHO is a
logical way of doing things.

As far as changing to another version is concerned, instead of one or two
registry entries to modify, you would need a number of them, but this could
still be handled by a simple program, etc.

Just my two cents worth.


--
Want to unsubscribe from this list?
Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com

file-system layout in b20.2+ [Re: yikes, what are these?]

[Mumit Khan]

cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com writes:
> 
> What I'm trying to say, is that, with the possible exception of bison
> (which will be fixed in the next release) nothing should be relying
> on builtin path names using the funky H-*/i-* subdirectory structure.
> Feel free to move things into more UNIX-friendly locations.
> 
> In fact, that's what we'll be doing in the next release.
> 

Chris,

Thanks for the good news. It's never too late to do the right thing ;-)

What I would like to see is that Cygwin installs to a virtual root that
can be anywhere on the physical disk.

I really don't want c:/usr etc on my disk, but would rather have the
choice to do the following: install Cygwin b20.2+ to /cygwin/cygwin-b20.2
and the installer set that to be '/'. If I want to switch to 20.1, I
can simply change the key (via env var or registry, whichever works), 
and (and perhaps reboot or kill all running Cygwin apps) and go.

AT&T UWIN does something similar, grossly speaking, and that setup works 
surprisingly well.  A good feature just waiting to be "re-used".

Regards,
Mumit


--
Want to unsubscribe from this list?
Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com

Re: file-system layout in b20.2+ [Re: yikes, what are these?]

[Mumit Khan]

I had written earlier:
> 
> I can do this with just one registry key that the pathname lookup code
> uses. If I had some free time, I could almost get the current snapshot 
> to do this, but since Chris is already working on this, I'll just wait 
> and get it for free ;-)

I clearly misspoke here. Chris Faylor is not working on such a feature.
My apologies for any confusion that this may have caused.

However, the fact remains that once the Unix like file system layout is
installed, it's a simple matter of mounting the <installdir> to '/' and
then it looks just like any other Unix box.

I'm looking forward to it, whenever it may happen.

Regards,
Mumit


--
Want to unsubscribe from this list?
Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com

Re: file-system layout in b20.2+ [Re: yikes, what are these?]

[Mumit Khan]

"Robert Campbell" <campbell@calgary.paradigmgeo.com> writes:
> 
> I Disagree (in part).  I would like to see Cygwin installed to
> /cygwin/<version>
> but then have the installer create the appropriate symbolic links or mount
> points to /usr,/bin,/etc et-al such that  /etc is actually a (mount point or
> symbolic link) to /cygwin/<version>/etc.  

Could you please elaborate as why you prefer this approach? I don't like
multiple symbolic links when a cleanly (single) rooted system is viable
and available for free.

> I would also like to see the
> installer automatically mount / to C:\

Please, no. This is simply a bad idea no matter how you look at it.

> This would provide a unix friendly envionment for compiling and installing
> things, as you mentioned above, but would leave / as C:\  which IMHO is a
> logical way of doing things.

Why is 'C:\' naturally '/'? I don't follow. 'C:\' may be more natural to
Windows32, but has nothing to do with Cygwin, which will translate the
paths appropriate before calling win32 API and interfacing with the
system.

> As far as changing to another version is concerned, instead of one or two
> registry entries to modify, you would need a number of them, but this could
> still be handled by a simple program, etc.

I can do this with just one registry key that the pathname lookup code
uses. If I had some free time, I could almost get the current snapshot 
to do this, but since Chris is already working on this, I'll just wait 
and get it for free ;-)

Thanks for your comments on this. 

Regards,
Mumit


--
Want to unsubscribe from this list?
Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com

Re: file-system layout in b20.2+ [Re: yikes, what are these?]

[itz]

   Mailing-List: contact cygwin-help@sourceware.cygnus.com; run by ezmlm
   Precedence: bulk
   Sender: cygwin-owner@sourceware.cygnus.com
   Delivered-To: mailing list cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com
   From: "Robert Campbell" <campbell@calgary.paradigmgeo.com>
   Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:41:05 -0600
   Mime-Version: 1.0
   Content-Type: text/plain;
           charset="iso-8859-1"
   Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
   X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
   X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
   X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0
   X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
   Importance: Normal

   > SNIP SNIP
   >
   > Thanks for the good news. It's never too late to do the right thing ;-)
   >
   > What I would like to see is that Cygwin installs to a virtual root that
   > can be anywhere on the physical disk.
   >
   > I really don't want c:/usr etc on my disk, but would rather have the
   > choice to do the following: install Cygwin b20.2+ to /cygwin/cygwin-b20.2
   > and the installer set that to be '/'. If I want to switch to 20.1, I
   > can simply change the key (via env var or registry, whichever works),
   > and (and perhaps reboot or kill all running Cygwin apps) and go.

   I Disagree (in part).  I would like to see Cygwin installed to
   /cygwin/<version>
   but then have the installer create the appropriate symbolic links or mount
   points to /usr,/bin,/etc et-al such that  /etc is actually a (mount point or
   symbolic link) to /cygwin/<version>/etc.  I would also like to see the
   installer automatically mount / to C:\

An extremely bad idea.  I have all cygwin related stuff on D: to
provide as much separation as possible between the Win and Unix
worlds.  This actually saved my a**e when I could no longer boot and
had to reformat my C: drive and reinstall NT.

-- 
Ian Zimmerman
Lightbinders, Inc.
2325 3rd Street #324
San Francisco, California 94107
U.S.A.

--
Want to unsubscribe from this list?
Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com

RE: file-system layout in b20.2+ [Re: yikes, what are these?]

[Robert Campbell]

> SNIP SNIP
>
> Thanks for the good news. It's never too late to do the right thing ;-)
>
> What I would like to see is that Cygwin installs to a virtual root that
> can be anywhere on the physical disk.
>
> I really don't want c:/usr etc on my disk, but would rather have the
> choice to do the following: install Cygwin b20.2+ to /cygwin/cygwin-b20.2
> and the installer set that to be '/'. If I want to switch to 20.1, I
> can simply change the key (via env var or registry, whichever works),
> and (and perhaps reboot or kill all running Cygwin apps) and go.

I Disagree (in part).  I would like to see Cygwin installed to
/cygwin/<version>
but then have the installer create the appropriate symbolic links or mount
points to /usr,/bin,/etc et-al such that  /etc is actually a (mount point or
symbolic link) to /cygwin/<version>/etc.  I would also like to see the
installer automatically mount / to C:\

This would provide a unix friendly envionment for compiling and installing
things, as you mentioned above, but would leave / as C:\  which IMHO is a
logical way of doing things.

As far as changing to another version is concerned, instead of one or two
registry entries to modify, you would need a number of them, but this could
still be handled by a simple program, etc.

Just my two cents worth.


--
Want to unsubscribe from this list?
Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com

Re: file-system layout in b20.2+ [Re: yikes, what are these?]

[Chris Faylor]

On Thu, Jun 17, 1999 at 02:38:40PM -0500, Mumit Khan wrote:
>cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com writes:
>> 
>> What I'm trying to say, is that, with the possible exception of bison
>> (which will be fixed in the next release) nothing should be relying
>> on builtin path names using the funky H-*/i-* subdirectory structure.
>> Feel free to move things into more UNIX-friendly locations.
>> 
>> In fact, that's what we'll be doing in the next release.
>> 
>
>Chris,
>
>Thanks for the good news. It's never too late to do the right thing ;-)
>
>What I would like to see is that Cygwin installs to a virtual root that
>can be anywhere on the physical disk.
>
>I really don't want c:/usr etc on my disk, but would rather have the
>choice to do the following: install Cygwin b20.2+ to /cygwin/cygwin-b20.2
>and the installer set that to be '/'. If I want to switch to 20.1, I
>can simply change the key (via env var or registry, whichever works), 
>and (and perhaps reboot or kill all running Cygwin apps) and go.

That's what I'm planning on doing.  You choose the root and everything
installs under there.

Of course, I first have a memory corruption problem to solve before I
can even think about this.  And, DJ is busy with other interesting stuff...

cgf

--
Want to unsubscribe from this list?
Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com

file-system layout in b20.2+ [Re: yikes, what are these?]

[Mumit Khan]

cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com writes:
> 
> What I'm trying to say, is that, with the possible exception of bison
> (which will be fixed in the next release) nothing should be relying
> on builtin path names using the funky H-*/i-* subdirectory structure.
> Feel free to move things into more UNIX-friendly locations.
> 
> In fact, that's what we'll be doing in the next release.
> 

Chris,

Thanks for the good news. It's never too late to do the right thing ;-)

What I would like to see is that Cygwin installs to a virtual root that
can be anywhere on the physical disk.

I really don't want c:/usr etc on my disk, but would rather have the
choice to do the following: install Cygwin b20.2+ to /cygwin/cygwin-b20.2
and the installer set that to be '/'. If I want to switch to 20.1, I
can simply change the key (via env var or registry, whichever works), 
and (and perhaps reboot or kill all running Cygwin apps) and go.

AT&T UWIN does something similar, grossly speaking, and that setup works 
surprisingly well.  A good feature just waiting to be "re-used".

Regards,
Mumit


--
Want to unsubscribe from this list?
Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com