Re: Problem with new-cygwin.dll.gz ?

Re: Problem with new-cygwin.dll.gz ?

[Geoffrey Noer]

Peter Baker wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Peter Kuehn wrote:
> 
> > yes there is (even if Geoffrey won't believe it :-(

I would be happy to replace the archive if it's genuinely corrupted.
It does seem that a lot of people have downloaded and installed
b19.1 without having problems, so at this point I'm not inclined
to think this is the problem...

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noer@cygnus.com
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Re: Problem with new-cygwin.dll.gz - Not here there isn't

[Guy Gascoigne - Piggford]

At 04:05 AM 4/6/98 -0700, Geoffrey Noer wrote:
>Peter Baker wrote:
>> 
>> On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Peter Kuehn wrote:
>> 
>> > yes there is (even if Geoffrey won't believe it :-(
>
>I would be happy to replace the archive if it's genuinely corrupted.
>It does seem that a lot of people have downloaded and installed
>b19.1 without having problems, so at this point I'm not inclined
>to think this is the problem...

Well I just downloaded it (again) without any problems at all.

gzip expanded it without any complaints (as doesd WinZIP).  More to the
point once it's expanded the resulting .dll works just fine.

Guy


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Problem with new-cygwin.dll.gz

[Emil Hallin]

I think that the problem is the files are somehow being downloaded as
text files; possibly some browser is not recognizing the ".gz" extension
and defaults to treating unrecognized files as if they were text? The
download works fine for me, but I have associated the .gz extension with
winzip in my browser. Right clicking on the link and choosing "save as"
to force a binary download might solve the problem some people are
having. That often solves problems I have with browser downloads.
	emil
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Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[Glenn Spell]

"'Chris Faylor'"cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com wrote:

> Ok.  Is it important to post my title frequently?  The "who's who"
> information is easily retrievable from the project web page (I just
> updated it with DJ's and my titles).

You might want to update it again. In the fourth paragraph you
misspelled "Corinna Vinschen".

-glenn

-- 
 )      Glenn Spell <glenn@gs.fay.nc.us>      )   _       _____
 )   Fayetteville, North Carolina, U. S. A.   )_ (__\____o /_/_ |
 )  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  )   >-----._/_/__]>
 )- blue skies - happy trails - sweet dreams -)             `0  |

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Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[Chris Faylor]

On Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 02:08:54AM -0400, Glenn Spell wrote:
>"'Chris Faylor'"cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com wrote:
>
>> Ok.  Is it important to post my title frequently?  The "who's who"
>> information is easily retrievable from the project web page (I just
>> updated it with DJ's and my titles).
>
>You might want to update it again. In the fourth paragraph you
>misspelled "Corinna Vinschen".

This is supposed to be "funny" right?  Corinna isn't mentioned in the
fourth paragraph.

cgf

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Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[Chris Faylor]

On Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 02:08:54AM -0400, Glenn Spell wrote:
>"'Chris Faylor'"cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com wrote:
>
>> Ok.  Is it important to post my title frequently?  The "who's who"
>> information is easily retrievable from the project web page (I just
>> updated it with DJ's and my titles).
>
>You might want to update it again. In the fourth paragraph you
>misspelled "Corinna Vinschen".

This is supposed to be "funny" right?  Corinna isn't mentioned in the
fourth paragraph.

cgf

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Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[Glenn Spell]

"'Chris Faylor'"cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com wrote:

> Ok.  Is it important to post my title frequently?  The "who's who"
> information is easily retrievable from the project web page (I just
> updated it with DJ's and my titles).

You might want to update it again. In the fourth paragraph you
misspelled "Corinna Vinschen".

-glenn

-- 
 )      Glenn Spell <glenn@gs.fay.nc.us>      )   _       _____
 )   Fayetteville, North Carolina, U. S. A.   )_ (__\____o /_/_ |
 )  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  )   >-----._/_/__]>
 )- blue skies - happy trails - sweet dreams -)             `0  |

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Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[Glenn Spell]

Chris Faylor <cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 02:08:54AM -0400, Glenn Spell wrote:
>
> >You might want to update it again. In the fourth paragraph you
> >misspelled "Corinna Vinschen".
>
> Corinna isn't mentioned in the fourth paragraph.

Yes, it's an obvious discrepancy. Can you fix it?

Thanks,

-glenn

-- 
 )      Glenn Spell <glenn@gs.fay.nc.us>      )   _       _____
 )   Fayetteville, North Carolina, U. S. A.   )_ (__\____o /_/_ |
 )  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  )   >-----._/_/__]>
 )- blue skies - happy trails - sweet dreams -)             `0  |

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Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[Glenn Spell]

Chris Faylor <cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 02:08:54AM -0400, Glenn Spell wrote:
>
> >You might want to update it again. In the fourth paragraph you
> >misspelled "Corinna Vinschen".
>
> Corinna isn't mentioned in the fourth paragraph.

Yes, it's an obvious discrepancy. Can you fix it?

Thanks,

-glenn

-- 
 )      Glenn Spell <glenn@gs.fay.nc.us>      )   _       _____
 )   Fayetteville, North Carolina, U. S. A.   )_ (__\____o /_/_ |
 )  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _  )   >-----._/_/__]>
 )- blue skies - happy trails - sweet dreams -)             `0  |

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Re: a bug

[Chris Faylor]

On Fri, Apr 21, 2000 at 01:31:03AM +0200, vigprogdev wrote:
>Hi !
>I've tried to make a program with the new 
>release. I think that's a -mno-cygwin 
>related problem (with libstdc++) : this 
>works without the flag :

I doubt very much if there is a stdc++ library for -mno-cygwin.

cgf

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Re: Unwanted compiler warnings with w32api

[Shayne Steele]

> 
> What version of w32api are you using?  What is the output of `cat
> /usr/include/w32api/w32api.h'?

-rw-rw-rw-   1 Fleshy1  root   537620 Sep 15 22:36 w32api-1.1-1.tar.bz2

c:\>cat /usr/include/w32api/w32api.h
cat /usr/include/w32api/w32api.h
#ifndef _W32API_H_
#define _W32API_H_

#define __W32API_VERSION 1.1
#define __W32API_MAJOR_VERSION 1
#define __W32API_MINOR_VERSION 1

#endif /* ndef _W32API_H_ */

c:\>

-- 
Shayne Steele	    Graduate Student in Computer Science at FSU
steele@cs.fsu.edu   http://www.cs.fsu.edu/~steele/
With great abilities come great responsibilities. -- Stan Lee


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Re: Unwanted compiler warnings with w32api

[Shayne Steele]

> What version of w32api are you using?  What is the output of `cat
> /usr/include/w32api/w32api.h'?
> 
> Earnie.

-rw-rw-rw-   1 Fleshy1  root   537620 Sep 15 22:36 w32api-1.1-1.tar.bz2

c:\>cat /usr/include/w32api/w32api.h
cat /usr/include/w32api/w32api.h
#ifndef _W32API_H_
#define _W32API_H_

#define __W32API_VERSION 1.1
#define __W32API_MAJOR_VERSION 1
#define __W32API_MINOR_VERSION 1

#endif /* ndef _W32API_H_ */

c:\>

> >         I recently updated to the latest w32api.  I compile my
> > programs with gcc and the options '-Wall -W -pedantic', and up until 
> > the upgrade have had no warnings.  Now I have some 'Extra' warnings
> > 
> > In file included from /usr/include/w32api/windef.h:145,
> >                  from /usr/include/w32api/windows.h:98,
> >                  from main-win.c:246:
> > /usr/include/w32api/winnt.h:1712: warning: ANSI C doesn't support
> > unnamed structs/unions
> > /usr/include/w32api/winnt.h:1725: warning: ANSI C doesn't support
> > unnamed structs/unions


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Re: 30 second startup delay on Cygwin programs from SYSTEM account

[Scott Atwood]

> I am running Cygwin 1.3.3 on Windows 2000 Server, and I have noticed a
> strange problem.  Whenever I try to start a Cygwin process from a windows
> cmd shell as the user SYSTEM, there is an approximately 30 second delay
> before the process starts.  If I have started a bash process as SYSTEM,
> subesequent processes started from within bash start normally.  Cygwin
> processes always start normally for the Administrator user.
>
> I have looked in the FAQ and the documentation, searched Google, and
> searched the Cygwin mailing list archive, and I couldn't find any
> mention of this problem.

I ran "strace bash" as user SYSTEM and here is an excerpt of the output.

 2949  226918 [main] bash 1428 internal_getlogin: GetUserName() = SYSTEM
30450200 30677118 [main] bash 1428 internal_getlogin: Domain: (null), Logon Serv
er: CHARON, Windows Username: SYSTEM

The output paused for about 30 seconds after the first line printed, and
before the second line printed.

Here is the same section of "strace bash" for user Administrator:

 2980  255639 [main] bash 1708 internal_getlogin: GetUserName() = Administrator
  831  256470 [main] bash 1708 internal_getlogin: User: Administrator, Domain: C
HARON, Logon Server: CHARON
305105  561575 [main] bash 1708 internal_getlogin: Domain: CHARON, Logon Server:
CHARON, Windows Username: Administrator


And again as user SYSTEM from within an already running bash process:

 1435  282240 [main] bash 1212 internal_getlogin: GetUserName() = SYSTEM
365580  647820 [main] bash 1212 internal_getlogin: Domain: (null), Logon Server:
CHARON, Windows Username: SYSTEM


I downloaded the cygwin 1.3.3 source code, and I was able to isolate these
lines of output as coming from the internal_getlogin method in the
winsup/cygwin/uinfo.cc file, somewhere between line 41 and 114.


I don't know enough about the structure of the cygwin DLL to be able to
isolate the problem any closer than that, since there are many method
calls in this region of the code.

-Scott


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Re: 30 second startup delay on Cygwin programs from SYSTEM account

[Robert Collins]

On Fri, 2001-10-26 at 11:07, Scott Atwood wrote:
 
> I ran "strace bash" as user SYSTEM and here is an excerpt of the output.
> 
>  2949  226918 [main] bash 1428 internal_getlogin: GetUserName() = SYSTEM
> 30450200 30677118 [main] bash 1428 internal_getlogin: Domain: (null), Logon Serv
> er: CHARON, Windows Username: SYSTEM
> 
> The output paused for about 30 seconds after the first line printed, and
> before the second line printed.

Right, here's whats happening:
SYSTEM doesn't belong to any network groups - it's local only, but
Cygwin is trying to find out it's network data - such as the home
domain.

Cygwin spawned/forked/execed process's can inherit that data in the
cygwin heap IIRC. Which is why no delay is seen - it's been optimised
away. But there would be a 30 second delay firing up bash.

As for why the 30 second delay in the first place, what's your system
config:
Are you a member of a win2k AD or an NT4 domain?
Are you running NBT?
Are you running NTLM?
Are you running the Server process?
Are you running the workstation process?

Cheers,
Rob


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Re: 30 second startup delay on Cygwin programs from SYSTEM account

[Scott Atwood]

Robert Collins writes:
> On Fri, 2001-10-26 at 11:07, Scott Atwood wrote:
> > I ran "strace bash" as user SYSTEM and here is an excerpt of the output.
> > 
> >  2949  226918 [main] bash 1428 internal_getlogin: GetUserName() = SYSTEM
> > 30450200 30677118 [main] bash 1428 internal_getlogin: Domain: (null),
> > Logon Server: CHARON, Windows Username: SYSTEM
> > 
> > The output paused for about 30 seconds after the first line printed, and
> > before the second line printed.
> 
> Right, here's whats happening:
> SYSTEM doesn't belong to any network groups - it's local only, but
> Cygwin is trying to find out it's network data - such as the home
> domain.
> 
> Cygwin spawned/forked/execed process's can inherit that data in the
> cygwin heap IIRC. Which is why no delay is seen - it's been optimised
> away. But there would be a 30 second delay firing up bash.
> 
> As for why the 30 second delay in the first place, what's your system
> config:
> Are you a member of a win2k AD or an NT4 domain?

No and no.

> Are you running NBT?

Yes.

> Are you running NTLM?

No.

> Are you running the Server process?

Yes.

> Are you running the workstation process?

Yes.

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Re: 30 second startup delay on Cygwin programs from SYSTEM account

[Robert Collins]

On Tue, 2001-11-06 at 09:36, Scott Atwood wrote:
> Robert Collins writes:
> > On Fri, 2001-10-26 at 11:07, Scott Atwood wrote:
> > > I ran "strace bash" as user SYSTEM and here is an excerpt of the output.
> > > 
> > >  2949  226918 [main] bash 1428 internal_getlogin: GetUserName() = SYSTEM
> > > 30450200 30677118 [main] bash 1428 internal_getlogin: Domain: (null),
> > > Logon Server: CHARON, Windows Username: SYSTEM
> > > 
> > > The output paused for about 30 seconds after the first line printed, and
> > > before the second line printed.
> > 
> > Right, here's whats happening:
> > SYSTEM doesn't belong to any network groups - it's local only, but
> > Cygwin is trying to find out it's network data - such as the home
> > domain.
> > 
> > Cygwin spawned/forked/execed process's can inherit that data in the
> > cygwin heap IIRC. Which is why no delay is seen - it's been optimised
> > away. But there would be a 30 second delay firing up bash.
> > 
> > As for why the 30 second delay in the first place, what's your system
> > config:
> > Are you a member of a win2k AD or an NT4 domain?
> 
> No and no.
> 
> > Are you running NBT?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> > Are you running NTLM?
> 
> No.
> 
> > Are you running the Server process?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> > Are you running the workstation process?
> 
> Yes.
> 
>

Does the behaviour change if you start the NTLM helper process?

Rob


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Re: 30 second startup delay on Cygwin programs from SYSTEM account

[Scott Atwood]

Robert Collins writes:
> 
> On Tue, 2001-11-06 at 09:36, Scott Atwood wrote:
> > Robert Collins writes:
> > > Are you running NTLM?
> > 
> > No.
> 
> Does the behaviour change if you start the NTLM helper process?

No.

-Scott

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Re: Cygwin homepage has problems

[Shayne Steele]

> 
> Looks fine to me.
> 
> Rob

  Yes, NOW it is fixed.

-- 
Shayne Steele	    Graduate Student in Computer Science at FSU
steele@cs.fsu.edu   http://www.cs.fsu.edu/~steele/
With great abilities come great responsibilities. -- Stan Lee

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Re: Command-line email?

[dmeans]

ssmtp, pine, mutt,  and there's always perl Mail::Sender.

David

> 
> Does cygwin have a simple command-line email tool to toss an email to an
> SMTP server (without having to configure and run a full-taco MTA)?
> 
> Thanks,
> Michael
> 
> 
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Re: Command-line email?

[Dr. Volker Zell]

>>>>> "dmeans" == dmeans  <dmeans@the-means.net> writes:

    dmeans> ssmtp, pine, mutt,  and there's always perl Mail::Sender.
    dmeans> David

    >> 
    >> Does cygwin have a simple command-line email tool to toss an email to an
    >> SMTP server (without having to configure and run a full-taco MTA)?
    >> 
    >> Thanks,
    >> Michael

And there's also nail.

http://omnibus.uni-freiburg.de/~gritter/

From the web page:

Nail is a mail user agent derived from Berkeley Mail 8.1. 
It is intended to provide the functionality of the POSIX.2 
mailx command with additional support for MIME messages, POP3 and SMTP. 
In recent system environments, nail is Unicode/UTF-8 capable. It 
further contains some minor enhancements like the ability to set 
a From: Address.

I have it working here.

Ciao
  Volker


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Re: mmap bug on Windows 9x

[Anton Ertl]

Anton Ertl wrote:
> 
> On Windows 9x/ME different calls to mmap sometimes produce the same
> address (without that memory being unmapped in the meantime, at least
> not by application code).

You find a condensed test program below.

On Windows ME with cygwin1.dll 1.5.10 it outputs:

try mmap($0, $40000, ..., MAP_ANON, ...); success, address=$833ca000
try mmap($8340b000, $40000, ..., MAP_ANON, ...); success, address=$833ca000

Note that the result addresses are the same.

On Windows 2000 with cygwin1.dll 1.3.22 it outputs:

try mmap($0, $40000, ..., MAP_ANON, ...); success, address=$640000
try mmap($681000, $40000, ..., MAP_ANON, ...); success, address=$680000

i.e., non-overlapping memory ranges, as it should.

I believe that this is a problem that both cygwin1.dlls have on
Windows ME/9x (and not on NT/2K/XP), not something arising from the
difference between cygwin versions (we see a problem that probably
arises from this bug also with the Gforth-for-Windows package that
includes cygwin1.dll 1.3.22).

- anton

Here's the test program (compile and run with "gcc -O main.c; ./a):
-----------------------------------------------------
#include <errno.h>
#include <ctype.h>
#include <stdio.h>
#include <unistd.h>
#include <string.h>
#include <math.h>
#include <sys/types.h>
#ifndef STANDALONE
#include <sys/stat.h>
#endif
#include <fcntl.h>
#include <assert.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <signal.h>
#ifndef STANDALONE
#include <sys/mman.h>
#endif

int debug=1;
#define HAVE_MMAP
typedef char *Address;
typedef int Cell;
int pagesize=4096;

static Address next_address=0;
void after_alloc(Address r, Cell size)
{
  if (r != (Address)-1) {
    if (debug)
      fprintf(stderr, "success, address=$%lx\n", (long) r);
    if (pagesize != 1)
      next_address = (Address)(((((Cell)r)+size-1)&-pagesize)+2*pagesize); /* leave one page unmapped */
  } else {
    if (debug)
      fprintf(stderr, "failed: %s\n", strerror(errno));
  }
}

#ifndef MAP_FAILED
#define MAP_FAILED ((Address) -1)
#endif
#ifndef MAP_FILE
# define MAP_FILE 0
#endif
#ifndef MAP_PRIVATE
# define MAP_PRIVATE 0
#endif
#if !defined(MAP_ANON) && defined(MAP_ANONYMOUS)
# define MAP_ANON MAP_ANONYMOUS
#endif

#if defined(HAVE_MMAP)
static Address alloc_mmap(Cell size)
{
  Address r;

#if defined(MAP_ANON)
  if (debug)
    fprintf(stderr,"try mmap($%lx, $%lx, ..., MAP_ANON, ...); ", (long)next_address, (long)size);
  r = mmap(next_address, size, PROT_EXEC|PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_ANON|MAP_PRIVATE, -1, 0);
#else /* !defined(MAP_ANON) */
  /* Ultrix (at least) does not define MAP_FILE and MAP_PRIVATE (both are
     apparently defaults) */
  static int dev_zero=-1;

  if (dev_zero == -1)
    dev_zero = open("/dev/zero", O_RDONLY);
  if (dev_zero == -1) {
    r = MAP_FAILED;
    if (debug)
      fprintf(stderr, "open(\"/dev/zero\"...) failed (%s), no mmap; ", 
	      strerror(errno));
  } else {
    if (debug)
      fprintf(stderr,"try mmap($%lx, $%lx, ..., MAP_FILE, dev_zero, ...); ", (long)next_address, (long)size);
    r=mmap(next_address, size, PROT_EXEC|PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_FILE|MAP_PRIVATE, dev_zero, 0);
  }
#endif /* !defined(MAP_ANON) */
  after_alloc(r, size);
  return r;  
}
#endif

int main(int argc, char **argv, char **env)
{
  debug=1;
  alloc_mmap(0x40000);
  alloc_mmap(0x40000);
  exit(0);
}

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Re: mmap bug on Windows 9x

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Jul 16 09:12, Anton Ertl wrote:
> Anton Ertl wrote:
> > 
> > On Windows 9x/ME different calls to mmap sometimes produce the same
> > address (without that memory being unmapped in the meantime, at least
> > not by application code).
> 
> You find a condensed test program below.
> 
> On Windows ME with cygwin1.dll 1.5.10 it outputs:
> 
> try mmap($0, $40000, ..., MAP_ANON, ...); success, address=$833ca000
> try mmap($8340b000, $40000, ..., MAP_ANON, ...); success, address=$833ca000
> 
> Note that the result addresses are the same.

Thanks for the testcase!  Wow, I'm impressed.  Three serious bug reports
in two days which all had a simple testcase(tm) attached! 

*Sob*, I'm moved to tears.

Anyway, I found the cause of that problem.  For some reason (moon phase
or so) the mmap code didn't marked pages as used when running under 9x/Me.
This could only be observed under a specific condition of mmapping
anonymous private pages.

I've applied a fix to the repository.  Should be in the next developers
snapshot from http://cygwin.com/snapshots/


Thanks for the report,
Corinna

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Cygwin Co-Project Leader          mailto:cygwin@cygwin.com
Red Hat, Inc.

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A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[Jons]

I am a new user of cygwin and other unix based system and I would like to
know if cygwin is capable to allow multi-user shell login from a network or
internet. I am using win98.

Thank you.

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Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[Chris Faylor]

On Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 04:37:09PM -0700, Jons wrote:
>I am a new user of cygwin and other unix based system and I would like to
>know if cygwin is capable to allow multi-user shell login from a network or
>internet. I am using win98.

If you are a new user, you'll probably have a lot of questions.  So, in
the interest of teaching you to fish rather than giving you a fish.  I
would suggest that the best way to get your questions answered is to
start with the project's web page: http://sourceware.cygnus.com/cygwin .
There, you will find pointers to ported software, a FAQ, and pointers to
the mailing list archives where, I am sure you can imagine, most
beginner questions have already been endlessly rehashed.

Chris Faylor
Cygwin Program Manager

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Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[Chris Faylor]

On Sat, Jun 26, 1999 at 04:37:09PM -0700, Jons wrote:
>I am a new user of cygwin and other unix based system and I would like to
>know if cygwin is capable to allow multi-user shell login from a network or
>internet. I am using win98.

If you are a new user, you'll probably have a lot of questions.  So, in
the interest of teaching you to fish rather than giving you a fish.  I
would suggest that the best way to get your questions answered is to
start with the project's web page: http://sourceware.cygnus.com/cygwin .
There, you will find pointers to ported software, a FAQ, and pointers to
the mailing list archives where, I am sure you can imagine, most
beginner questions have already been endlessly rehashed.

Chris Faylor
Cygwin Program Manager

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A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[Jons]

I am a new user of cygwin and other unix based system and I would like to
know if cygwin is capable to allow multi-user shell login from a network or
internet. I am using win98.

Thank you.

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RE: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[McCunney, Dennis]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Faylor [ mailto:cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com ]
> Sent: Saturday, June 26, 1999 9:36 PM
> To: Jons
> Cc: cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com
> Subject: Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system
> 
> If you are a new user, you'll probably have a lot of questions.  So, in
> the interest of teaching you to fish rather than giving you a fish.  I
> would suggest that the best way to get your questions answered is to
> start with the project's web page: 
> http://sourceware.cygnus.com/cygwin .
> There, you will find pointers to ported software, a FAQ, and pointers to
> the mailing list archives where, I am sure you can imagine, most
> beginner questions have already been endlessly rehashed.
> 
> Chris Faylor
> Cygwin Program Manager

If I might make a couple of suggestions:

First, you might wish to post a mini-FAQ here on a regular basis.  It
doesn't have to be long and detailed: just a statement of the nature and
purpose of the mailing list, names and email addresses of "official" folks
like yourself with notes about your roles, and pointers to the appropriate
FAQs and other resources.

I got the impression from reading your posts here that you were officially
involved with Cygwin, for instance, but this is the first post of yours
signed with your title that I recall seeing.

As the Cygwin tools grow in usage, you'll see more new folks popping up
asking beginner questions who for whatever reason don't already know about
the FAQ.  

(I found out about this mailing list from a FAQ included with a cygwin
distribution, but the address given for subscribing to the list was _wrong_,
and bounced with an "unknown recipient" error.  I got pointed in the right
direction by a chap on the NTEmacs mailing list.)

Second, please consider adding either a stand-alone info reader or a groff
port to the distribution.  I  understand your desire to reserve your
energies for the more important parts of your effort, but since your
documentation is distributed in nroff and info format, it isn't clear how
someone who doesn't have emacs, an info reader, or groff installed is
supposed to _read_ it. (I installed NTEmacs and added your info files to the
Emacs info tree.  I'm still SOL on the man pages - my Unix systems at the
office don't have nroff installed, and booting to Linux at home to use groff
is something I haven't had time to do.)

Thanks for excellent tools and a worthy effort.

_______________
Dennis McCunney
 


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Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[DJ Delorie]

> If I might make a couple of suggestions:

Suggestions are always welcome!

> First, you might wish to post a mini-FAQ here on a regular basis.

Hmmm... I already post a djgpp mini-faq; I suppose I could do a cygwin
mini-faq also.

> I got the impression from reading your posts here that you were officially
> involved with Cygwin, for instance, but this is the first post of yours
> signed with your title that I recall seeing.

For the record, Chris is the manager of the cygwin group, and I'm the
only engineer in the group (my official title is "senior engineer").
Chris also manages another group in Cygnus, so I'm the only true
full-time employee on cygwin.  Our responsibilities include not only
cygwin development, but also supporting development by other groups on
the windows platform and doing other windows-related internal
projects.  I'm also working on our next "GNUPro" release.

> (I found out about this mailing list from a FAQ included with a cygwin
> distribution, but the address given for subscribing to the list was _wrong_,
> and bounced with an "unknown recipient" error.  I got pointed in the right
> direction by a chap on the NTEmacs mailing list.)

That would be the old gnu-win32@cygnus.com address, which I thought
would bounce with a *useful* message.

> Second, please consider adding either a stand-alone info reader or a groff
> port to the distribution.

I have those on my machine.  Porting was actually pretty easy; you
might try it yourself as an exercise.  Texinfo just needed a makefile
tweak (add .exe to makedoc), GNU groff built without changes, and you
can get "man" sources from any linux distribution - no changes needed
there either.  Our goal (well, mine at least) is to make cygwin
compatible enough that "./configure; make; make install" works just as
often (and as well) as on Unix.  In this case, it almost does.

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Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[DJ Delorie]

> If I might make a couple of suggestions:

Suggestions are always welcome!

> First, you might wish to post a mini-FAQ here on a regular basis.

Hmmm... I already post a djgpp mini-faq; I suppose I could do a cygwin
mini-faq also.

> I got the impression from reading your posts here that you were officially
> involved with Cygwin, for instance, but this is the first post of yours
> signed with your title that I recall seeing.

For the record, Chris is the manager of the cygwin group, and I'm the
only engineer in the group (my official title is "senior engineer").
Chris also manages another group in Cygnus, so I'm the only true
full-time employee on cygwin.  Our responsibilities include not only
cygwin development, but also supporting development by other groups on
the windows platform and doing other windows-related internal
projects.  I'm also working on our next "GNUPro" release.

> (I found out about this mailing list from a FAQ included with a cygwin
> distribution, but the address given for subscribing to the list was _wrong_,
> and bounced with an "unknown recipient" error.  I got pointed in the right
> direction by a chap on the NTEmacs mailing list.)

That would be the old gnu-win32@cygnus.com address, which I thought
would bounce with a *useful* message.

> Second, please consider adding either a stand-alone info reader or a groff
> port to the distribution.

I have those on my machine.  Porting was actually pretty easy; you
might try it yourself as an exercise.  Texinfo just needed a makefile
tweak (add .exe to makedoc), GNU groff built without changes, and you
can get "man" sources from any linux distribution - no changes needed
there either.  Our goal (well, mine at least) is to make cygwin
compatible enough that "./configure; make; make install" works just as
often (and as well) as on Unix.  In this case, it almost does.

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Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

['Chris Faylor']

On Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 11:38:21AM -0400, McCunney, Dennis wrote:
>First, you might wish to post a mini-FAQ here on a regular basis.  It
>doesn't have to be long and detailed: just a statement of the nature and
>purpose of the mailing list, names and email addresses of "official" folks
>like yourself with notes about your roles, and pointers to the appropriate
>FAQs and other resources.

There *is* a mini-FAQ posted on a regular basis by a volunteer.  We're very
grateful for Michael Weiser's contribution of the mini-FAQ.

>I got the impression from reading your posts here that you were officially
>involved with Cygwin, for instance, but this is the first post of yours
>signed with your title that I recall seeing.

Ok.  Is it important to post my title frequently?  The "who's who" information
is easily retrievable from the project web page (I just updated it with DJ's
and my titles).

>As the Cygwin tools grow in usage, you'll see more new folks popping up
>asking beginner questions who for whatever reason don't already know about
>the FAQ.  

And, if they do, either I or someone else will inevitably point them to the
FAQ just like on countless other mailing lists and newsgroups throughout the
internet.  I must be missing something here because you seem to be stating the
obvious and I don't know why.

>(I found out about this mailing list from a FAQ included with a cygwin
>distribution, but the address given for subscribing to the list was _wrong_,
>and bounced with an "unknown recipient" error.  I got pointed in the right
>direction by a chap on the NTEmacs mailing list.)

The mailing list address changed.  Here's the bounce message from
sending mail to the old mailing list address:

>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:29:12 -0700 (PDT)
>From: daemon@cygnus.com
>To: cgf@cygnus.com
>Subject: Re: A test
>In-Reply-To: <19990628203018.A15216@cygnus.com>
>Precedence: junk
>X-Loop: cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com
>
>Sorry, I am unable to deliver your mail note to gnu-win32@cygnus.com,
>that list name is no longer used.  Please try resending your mail 
>note to the new list name:  cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com.
>
>If you have any questions about this, send mail to sourcemaster@cygnus.com.
>This is a machine-generated message.
>
>Here is a copy of the note you sent.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>--
>cgf@cygnus.com
> http://www.cygnus.com/

I think the message is pretty clear.

>Second, please consider adding either a stand-alone info reader or a
>groff port to the distribution.  I understand your desire to reserve
>your energies for the more important parts of your effort, but since
>your documentation is distributed in nroff and info format, it isn't
>clear how someone who doesn't have emacs, an info reader, or groff
>installed is supposed to _read_ it.  (I installed NTEmacs and added
>your info files to the Emacs info tree.  I'm still SOL on the man pages
>- my Unix systems at the office don't have nroff installed, and booting
>to Linux at home to use groff is something I haven't had time to do.)

Maybe you haven't been reading the mailing list long enough to hear the
standard statement on why these tools exist.  Basically, the tools exist
because Cygnus uses them to port its GNUpro offering to Windows.  For
that purpose, we basically have everything we need.  It was realized
that these tools would be of some use to people on the Internet so they
were released as free software.

Although suggestions are always welcome (and this one has been repeated
countless times), we don't always have the time to polish up the release
and provide everything that users clamor for -- at least we don't have the
time to do it with any great alacrity.

So, what are your alternatives?  Are you SOL?  No.  You have a large
number of options.  Again, I would point you to the project web page.
If you peruse the Ported Software section, you'll undoubtedly find a man
reader.  Offhand, I don't see groff but I know it's been ported.  If
anyone wants to send me or DJ a pointer to a URL for download we'll add
it to the web page.

cgf

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Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[Chris Faylor]

On Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 09:12:09PM -0400, 'Chris Faylor' wrote:
>>(I found out about this mailing list from a FAQ included with a cygwin
>>distribution, but the address given for subscribing to the list was _wrong_,
>>and bounced with an "unknown recipient" error.  I got pointed in the right
>>direction by a chap on the NTEmacs mailing list.)
>
>The mailing list address changed.  Here's the bounce message from
>sending mail to the old mailing list address:
>
>>[snip]

Oops. Sorry about this.  Poor reading skills.

The subscription address for the old mailing list *does* bounce.  I'm having
someone fix this now.

Thanks for the heads up.

cgf

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Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[Chris Faylor]

On Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 09:12:09PM -0400, 'Chris Faylor' wrote:
>>(I found out about this mailing list from a FAQ included with a cygwin
>>distribution, but the address given for subscribing to the list was _wrong_,
>>and bounced with an "unknown recipient" error.  I got pointed in the right
>>direction by a chap on the NTEmacs mailing list.)
>
>The mailing list address changed.  Here's the bounce message from
>sending mail to the old mailing list address:
>
>>[snip]

Oops. Sorry about this.  Poor reading skills.

The subscription address for the old mailing list *does* bounce.  I'm having
someone fix this now.

Thanks for the heads up.

cgf

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Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

['Chris Faylor']

On Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 11:38:21AM -0400, McCunney, Dennis wrote:
>First, you might wish to post a mini-FAQ here on a regular basis.  It
>doesn't have to be long and detailed: just a statement of the nature and
>purpose of the mailing list, names and email addresses of "official" folks
>like yourself with notes about your roles, and pointers to the appropriate
>FAQs and other resources.

There *is* a mini-FAQ posted on a regular basis by a volunteer.  We're very
grateful for Michael Weiser's contribution of the mini-FAQ.

>I got the impression from reading your posts here that you were officially
>involved with Cygwin, for instance, but this is the first post of yours
>signed with your title that I recall seeing.

Ok.  Is it important to post my title frequently?  The "who's who" information
is easily retrievable from the project web page (I just updated it with DJ's
and my titles).

>As the Cygwin tools grow in usage, you'll see more new folks popping up
>asking beginner questions who for whatever reason don't already know about
>the FAQ.  

And, if they do, either I or someone else will inevitably point them to the
FAQ just like on countless other mailing lists and newsgroups throughout the
internet.  I must be missing something here because you seem to be stating the
obvious and I don't know why.

>(I found out about this mailing list from a FAQ included with a cygwin
>distribution, but the address given for subscribing to the list was _wrong_,
>and bounced with an "unknown recipient" error.  I got pointed in the right
>direction by a chap on the NTEmacs mailing list.)

The mailing list address changed.  Here's the bounce message from
sending mail to the old mailing list address:

>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:29:12 -0700 (PDT)
>From: daemon@cygnus.com
>To: cgf@cygnus.com
>Subject: Re: A test
>In-Reply-To: <19990628203018.A15216@cygnus.com>
>Precedence: junk
>X-Loop: cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com
>
>Sorry, I am unable to deliver your mail note to gnu-win32@cygnus.com,
>that list name is no longer used.  Please try resending your mail 
>note to the new list name:  cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com.
>
>If you have any questions about this, send mail to sourcemaster@cygnus.com.
>This is a machine-generated message.
>
>Here is a copy of the note you sent.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>--
>cgf@cygnus.com
> http://www.cygnus.com/

I think the message is pretty clear.

>Second, please consider adding either a stand-alone info reader or a
>groff port to the distribution.  I understand your desire to reserve
>your energies for the more important parts of your effort, but since
>your documentation is distributed in nroff and info format, it isn't
>clear how someone who doesn't have emacs, an info reader, or groff
>installed is supposed to _read_ it.  (I installed NTEmacs and added
>your info files to the Emacs info tree.  I'm still SOL on the man pages
>- my Unix systems at the office don't have nroff installed, and booting
>to Linux at home to use groff is something I haven't had time to do.)

Maybe you haven't been reading the mailing list long enough to hear the
standard statement on why these tools exist.  Basically, the tools exist
because Cygnus uses them to port its GNUpro offering to Windows.  For
that purpose, we basically have everything we need.  It was realized
that these tools would be of some use to people on the Internet so they
were released as free software.

Although suggestions are always welcome (and this one has been repeated
countless times), we don't always have the time to polish up the release
and provide everything that users clamor for -- at least we don't have the
time to do it with any great alacrity.

So, what are your alternatives?  Are you SOL?  No.  You have a large
number of options.  Again, I would point you to the project web page.
If you peruse the Ported Software section, you'll undoubtedly find a man
reader.  Offhand, I don't see groff but I know it's been ported.  If
anyone wants to send me or DJ a pointer to a URL for download we'll add
it to the web page.

cgf

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Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[Michael Hirmke]

Hi Chris,

[...]
>reader.  Offhand, I don't see groff but I know it's been ported.  If
>anyone wants to send me or DJ a pointer to a URL for download we'll add
>it to the web page.

groff-1.10 is on ftp.franken.de in my porters' directory and also has a
section in my package report.


>
>cgf

Bye.
Michael.
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Georg-Strobel-Strasse 81 | FAX     +49 (911) 557664
90489 Nuernberg          | E-Mail  mailto:mh@mike.franken.de
                         | WWW     http://aquarius.franken.de/

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Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[Chris Faylor]

On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 12:06:00AM +0200, Michael Hirmke wrote:
>>reader.  Offhand, I don't see groff but I know it's been ported.  If
>>anyone wants to send me or DJ a pointer to a URL for download we'll add
>>it to the web page.
>
>groff-1.10 is on ftp.franken.de in my porters' directory and also has a
>section in my package report.

Yeah, I thought it was probably on your site but it doesn't seem to be
mentioned on the cygwin site.

Maybe we should be putting your "ported software report" on our web pages
somehow.

Would you be interested in maintaining a page at sourceware.cygnus.com?
You'd need cvs access but after that it would be easy.

cgf

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Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[Chris Faylor]

On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 12:06:00AM +0200, Michael Hirmke wrote:
>>reader.  Offhand, I don't see groff but I know it's been ported.  If
>>anyone wants to send me or DJ a pointer to a URL for download we'll add
>>it to the web page.
>
>groff-1.10 is on ftp.franken.de in my porters' directory and also has a
>section in my package report.

Yeah, I thought it was probably on your site but it doesn't seem to be
mentioned on the cygwin site.

Maybe we should be putting your "ported software report" on our web pages
somehow.

Would you be interested in maintaining a page at sourceware.cygnus.com?
You'd need cvs access but after that it would be easy.

cgf

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Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[Michael Hirmke]

Hi Chris,

[...]
>reader.  Offhand, I don't see groff but I know it's been ported.  If
>anyone wants to send me or DJ a pointer to a URL for download we'll add
>it to the web page.

groff-1.10 is on ftp.franken.de in my porters' directory and also has a
section in my package report.


>
>cgf

Bye.
Michael.
--
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Georg-Strobel-Strasse 81 | FAX     +49 (911) 557664
90489 Nuernberg          | E-Mail  mailto:mh@mike.franken.de
                         | WWW     http://aquarius.franken.de/

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Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[Michael Hirmke]

Chris Faylor [cgf@cygnus.com] wrote:

[...]
>Maybe we should be putting your "ported software report" on our web pages
>somehow.

Isn't a link enough??

>
>Would you be interested in maintaining a page at sourceware.cygnus.com?
>You'd need cvs access but after that it would be easy.

Sorry, but I'd better like to maintain this document here on my own web
server. Besides that, I don't have the time to do anything else than
that.

>
>cgf

Bye.
Michael.
--
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Georg-Strobel-Strasse 81 | FAX     +49 (911) 557664
90489 Nuernberg          | E-Mail  mailto:mh@mike.franken.de
                         | WWW     http://aquarius.franken.de/

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Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[Michael Hirmke]

Chris Faylor [cgf@cygnus.com] wrote:

[...]
>Maybe we should be putting your "ported software report" on our web pages
>somehow.

Isn't a link enough??

>
>Would you be interested in maintaining a page at sourceware.cygnus.com?
>You'd need cvs access but after that it would be easy.

Sorry, but I'd better like to maintain this document here on my own web
server. Besides that, I don't have the time to do anything else than
that.

>
>cgf

Bye.
Michael.
--
Michael Hirmke           | Telefon +49 (911) 557999
Georg-Strobel-Strasse 81 | FAX     +49 (911) 557664
90489 Nuernberg          | E-Mail  mailto:mh@mike.franken.de
                         | WWW     http://aquarius.franken.de/

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RE: A new user of cygwin and unix based system

[McCunney, Dennis]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Faylor [ mailto:cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com ]
> Sent: Saturday, June 26, 1999 9:36 PM
> To: Jons
> Cc: cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com
> Subject: Re: A new user of cygwin and unix based system
> 
> If you are a new user, you'll probably have a lot of questions.  So, in
> the interest of teaching you to fish rather than giving you a fish.  I
> would suggest that the best way to get your questions answered is to
> start with the project's web page: 
> http://sourceware.cygnus.com/cygwin .
> There, you will find pointers to ported software, a FAQ, and pointers to
> the mailing list archives where, I am sure you can imagine, most
> beginner questions have already been endlessly rehashed.
> 
> Chris Faylor
> Cygwin Program Manager

If I might make a couple of suggestions:

First, you might wish to post a mini-FAQ here on a regular basis.  It
doesn't have to be long and detailed: just a statement of the nature and
purpose of the mailing list, names and email addresses of "official" folks
like yourself with notes about your roles, and pointers to the appropriate
FAQs and other resources.

I got the impression from reading your posts here that you were officially
involved with Cygwin, for instance, but this is the first post of yours
signed with your title that I recall seeing.

As the Cygwin tools grow in usage, you'll see more new folks popping up
asking beginner questions who for whatever reason don't already know about
the FAQ.  

(I found out about this mailing list from a FAQ included with a cygwin
distribution, but the address given for subscribing to the list was _wrong_,
and bounced with an "unknown recipient" error.  I got pointed in the right
direction by a chap on the NTEmacs mailing list.)

Second, please consider adding either a stand-alone info reader or a groff
port to the distribution.  I  understand your desire to reserve your
energies for the more important parts of your effort, but since your
documentation is distributed in nroff and info format, it isn't clear how
someone who doesn't have emacs, an info reader, or groff installed is
supposed to _read_ it. (I installed NTEmacs and added your info files to the
Emacs info tree.  I'm still SOL on the man pages - my Unix systems at the
office don't have nroff installed, and booting to Linux at home to use groff
is something I haven't had time to do.)

Thanks for excellent tools and a worthy effort.

_______________
Dennis McCunney
 


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