Re: PLEASE help with V1.0 canonical mode problem

Re: PLEASE help with V1.0 canonical mode problem

[James Grishaw]

>>I notice that if I use a later snapshot version of cygwin1.dll, the
problem
>>disappears.  Is there a snapshot version of cygwin1.dll that Cygnus
feels
>>is pretty stable that I could be using to get around this bug?
>
>The "later snapshot" is the correct fix for the problem.  What, exactly,
is
>wrong with using a snapshot?
>
>cgf
>

Chris,

    I guess the notes that Cygnus includes on the snapshot web page summarize
my concerns:

" These snapshots have not been tested. These are automatically built
and packaged each night. The only guarantee is that it built on my
machine (there is no snapshot if the build fails). "

And...

" Cygwin snapshots are intended for cygwin developers only unless you
 have been specifically told to try one of these. "


Chris, I trying to set up some folks at Agilent (formerly HP) with some
software running under Cygwin.  We are currently in the alpha testing
stage.  If this works out it could potentially roll out to a much larger
number of users, and these by and large are NOT programmer types.  It
is going
to be very inconvenient to not be able backspace over type-o's while
running ftp in an xterm.  Also, there are a number of shell scripts that
prompt for user input (using bash's "read" built-in) where the same
problem occurs.

We all bought the CD with the idea that (a) it had undergone testing
to
assure that it is stable and bug-free, and (b) people that bought the
CD would be given at least a little preference when it came to support.


I would very much like this to turn out to be a positive experience for
everyone.  Can you please pass this e-mail on to the engineer that fixed
the canonical mode problem and ask him to see if he can work out a patch
for V1.0?

I'm even willing to donate engineering time to the task.  If you can't
do
the above, can you at least have him send me an e-mail pointing me in
the right direction so I can do it myself?  I volunteer to supply you
with
my work when I am done.


Many thanks for your consideration,

Jim Grishaw.

-- 
James Grishaw
jgrishaw@onebox.com - email
(408) 380-2271 x1143 - voicemail/fax



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Cygwin snapshots (was: Re: PLEASE help with V1.0 canonical mode problem

[Jeff Sturm]

James Grishaw wrote:
[...]
> " Cygwin snapshots are intended for cygwin developers only unless you
>  have been specifically told to try one of these. "

I take that to mean "don't use a snapshot in place of the release unless
you have a good reason", like comm support, ntsec, etc.  Sorta common
sense, I think...

[...]
> We all bought the CD with the idea that (a) it had undergone testing
> to
> assure that it is stable and bug-free, and (b) people that bought the
> CD would be given at least a little preference when it came to support.

There are no guarantees.  Ever read a typical EULA from shrink-wrap
software?  You know, the "NO WARRANTY...AT YOUR OWN RISK...SOFTWARE IS
PROVIDED AS-IS" stuff.  Apparently nobody ever has concerns about the
EULA.

It intrigues me when someone requests better support for a commercial
package based on the public availability of source code and snapshots. 
What does it mean to "support" the CD anyway?  (Ask Microsoft to patch
Win2k to fix a single bug... do you think they'll comply?  They might
say "wait for the next release".  Having access to untested snapshots
can be no worse.)

> I'm even willing to donate engineering time to the task.  If you can't
> do
> the above, can you at least have him send me an e-mail pointing me in
> the right direction so I can do it myself?  I volunteer to supply you
> with
> my work when I am done.

I'm not too familiar with Cygwin development... is there a ChangeLog
file?  What about a "cygwin-patches" list?  If so, it shouldn't be too
hard to dig up the relevant patch.  Applying that patch to the source
release may or may not be trivial, however... sometimes there are just
too many code changes from the release  branch to main trunk.

Do Cygwin developers use regression testing?  Is there are test suite
available?  If so, any volunteer could also post test results for any
particular snapshot, to give some kind of objective indicator of the
quality of a snapshot.  (If not, a test suite would be a nice side
project, too.)

The beauty of open source is that nobody is forced to wait for
Cygnus/Red Hat... anyone who is sufficiently motivated is free to test,
patch and even build a release of the software themselves.  And if
nothing else, we have the blind assurance that each snapshot is probably
tested by a substantial group of net volunteers, even if no formal
testing is done.

(Note: I am not affiliated with Cygnus/Red Hat in any manner.  The above
is my personal opinion only.)

-- 
Jeff Sturm
jsturm@sigma6.com

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Re: Cygwin snapshots (was: Re: PLEASE help with V1.0 canonical mode problem

[DJ Delorie]

> I take that to mean "don't use a snapshot in place of the release
> unless you have a good reason", like comm support, ntsec, etc.
> Sorta common sense, I think...

The wording is designed for people who don't have common sense.  We
don't worry about the ones that do.

> What does it mean to "support" the CD anyway?

In the case of the Cygwin CD, it means that we help you (via email or
phone to one of our support people, not via this mailing list) get the
software installed and running.  It also means that the code base is
more stable than average.

> I'm not too familiar with Cygwin development... is there a ChangeLog
> file?

Yes.

> What about a "cygwin-patches" list?

Yes, but only recently, when we moved development to CVS on
sourceware.

> Do Cygwin developers use regression testing?  Is there are test suite
> available?

We only recently added the ability to run a testsuite against cygwin
(it's in winsup/cygwin/testsuite) but so far nobody has contributed
any tests.

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