Re: AW: documentation archive

Re: AW: documentation archive

[Earnie Boyd]

--- Vladimir G Ivanovic <vladimir@acm.org> wrote:
> "EB" == Earnie Boyd <earnie_boyd@yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>   EB> --- klaus.berndl@sdm.de wrote:
>   >> we loaded cgwin-docs_tar.tar, but we can not open it. tar says
>   >> "hmm, seems not to be a tar archive" and winzip read a header with
>   >> 0 byte. Can you help us ?
>   >>
> 
>   EB> 1) Don't use Netscape to download your files.
> 
> I use Netscape almost exclusively to download files, without problems.
> Sometimes Netscape will automagically decompress the file, but not
> rename it. So all applications that key off of the file name extension
> will be confused. It's a simple matter to rename the file to end in
> ".tar". Also, see below.
> 

You're free to do as you wish.  But, if you report such problems on this list
you will receive the stated advice.

>   EB> 2) Don't use Winzip to explore a cygwin archive file.
> 
> I do this as well without problems, although it's not my preferred way
> of exploring a gzipped tar gile. WinZip will ask if it should decompress
> the file to a temporary directory and open it, which it does admirably.
> Also, see below.
> 

WinZip doesn't support Cygwin links.  If the tar archive contains any of those
links (and some packages do) then you will not be able to use the unarchived
file as it was intended to be used.  WinZip has never been supported.  WinZip
also has that smart CRLF option and that in itself was enough to not use it.

>   EB> 3) The name of the file should be cygwin-docs.tar.gz
> 
> "cygwin-docs.tgz" could work as well. See below.
> 

Say thank-you, DJ.

>   EB> Cheers,
> 
> I have registered two new file types in Explorer to make my life easier:
> In Tools:Folder Options:File Types, I've added
>   
>   GZ  --> WinZip
>   TGZ --> WinZip 
> 

You're asking for trouble.

> You might have to do the same in Netscape (Edit:Preferences:Applications).
> 

Never.

Cheers,

=====
Earnie Boyd
mailto:earnie_boyd@yahoo.com

---         < http://earniesystems.safeshopper.com >         ---
--- Cygwin: POSIX on Windows < http://gw32.freeyellow.com/ > ---
---   Minimalist GNU for Windows < http://www.mingw.org/ >   ---

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Re: AW: documentation archive

[Andreas Eibach]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Vladimir G Ivanovic" <vladimir@acm.org>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Cc: <klaus.berndl@sdm.de>; <merlin_electronic@t-online.de>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: AW: documentation archive

> I use Netscape almost exclusively to download files, without problems.
> Sometimes Netscape will automagically decompress the file, but not
> rename it. So all applications that key off of the file name extension
> will be confused. It's a simple matter to rename the file to end in
> ".tar".

Ah, you MUST be NT users. :)
IIRC, this is a NT-only problem. I never had this behaviour with a Win9x
machine, honestly, *never*.
However, my machine at work is a NT 4 SP 5 (?) one, so I always get   ...
_tar.tar  files instead of tar.gz. This is *very annoying*.. :-/
I do NOT have W2k yet, so I dunno if this is fixed in W2k. I hope it is, but
I bet it's not.

Andreas


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Re: AW: documentation archive

[Earnie Boyd]

--- klaus.berndl@sdm.de wrote:
> we loaded cgwin-docs_tar.tar, but we can not open it. tar says "hmm,
> seems not to be a tar archive" and winzip read a header with 0 byte. Can
> you help us ?
> 

1) Don't use Netscape to download your files.
2) Don't use Winzip to explore a cygwin archive file.
3) The name of the file should be cygwin-docs.tar.gz

Cheers,

=====
Earnie Boyd
mailto:earnie_boyd@yahoo.com

---         < http://earniesystems.safeshopper.com >         ---
--- Cygwin: POSIX on Windows < http://gw32.freeyellow.com/ > ---
---   Minimalist GNU for Windows < http://www.mingw.org/ >   ---

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Re: AW: documentation archive

[Vladimir G Ivanovic]

"EB" == Earnie Boyd <earnie_boyd@yahoo.com> writes:

  EB> --- klaus.berndl@sdm.de wrote:
  >> we loaded cgwin-docs_tar.tar, but we can not open it. tar says
  >> "hmm, seems not to be a tar archive" and winzip read a header with
  >> 0 byte. Can you help us ?
  >>

  EB> 1) Don't use Netscape to download your files.

I use Netscape almost exclusively to download files, without problems.
Sometimes Netscape will automagically decompress the file, but not
rename it. So all applications that key off of the file name extension
will be confused. It's a simple matter to rename the file to end in
".tar". Also, see below.

  EB> 2) Don't use Winzip to explore a cygwin archive file.

I do this as well without problems, although it's not my preferred way
of exploring a gzipped tar gile. WinZip will ask if it should decompress
the file to a temporary directory and open it, which it does admirably.
Also, see below.

  EB> 3) The name of the file should be cygwin-docs.tar.gz

"cygwin-docs.tgz" could work as well. See below.

  EB> Cheers,

I have registered two new file types in Explorer to make my life easier:
In Tools:Folder Options:File Types, I've added
  
  GZ  --> WinZip
  TGZ --> WinZip 

You might have to do the same in Netscape (Edit:Preferences:Applications).

---Vladimir

Vladimir G. Ivanovic                    http://www.leonora.org/~vladimir
2770 Cowper St.                                         vladimir@acm.org
Palo Alto, CA 94306-2447                                 +1 650 678 8014

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Re: AW: documentation archive

[Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc)]

Of course, anyone is free to do anything they want and, as long as it works
well for their needs, that's fine.  However, if you do something and have a 
problem and then ask the list, the first response will be to perform the 
operation in the prescribed way.  This is simply to reduce the variations
and determine if the problem is in Cygwin or not.  Also, the recommendations
given are used because they are known to work.  Recommending known working
procedures and discouraging those that don't or are problematic simply cuts
down on the traffic on this list.  So feel free to use whatever tools work
for you in whatever combination you like.  If, however, you find a problem
in your procedure, please verify that it is a problem using the recommended
procedure as well before posting.  This will save us all allot of time and
effort. 

In case its not clear, this response is directed at the reader of this message
as much as the poster!;-)

Thanks,

Larry Hall                              lhall@rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      http://www.rfk.com
118 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
Holliston, MA 01746                     (508) 893-9889 - FAX



At 02:18 PM 12/20/2000, Vladimir G Ivanovic wrote:
>"EB" == Earnie Boyd <earnie_boyd@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>   EB> --- klaus.berndl@sdm.de wrote:
>   >> we loaded cgwin-docs_tar.tar, but we can not open it. tar says
>   >> "hmm, seems not to be a tar archive" and winzip read a header with
>   >> 0 byte. Can you help us ?
>   >>
>
>   EB> 1) Don't use Netscape to download your files.
>
>I use Netscape almost exclusively to download files, without problems.
>Sometimes Netscape will automagically decompress the file, but not
>rename it. So all applications that key off of the file name extension
>will be confused. It's a simple matter to rename the file to end in
>".tar". Also, see below.
>
>   EB> 2) Don't use Winzip to explore a cygwin archive file.
>
>I do this as well without problems, although it's not my preferred way
>of exploring a gzipped tar gile. WinZip will ask if it should decompress
>the file to a temporary directory and open it, which it does admirably.
>Also, see below.
>
>   EB> 3) The name of the file should be cygwin-docs.tar.gz
>
>"cygwin-docs.tgz" could work as well. See below.
>
>   EB> Cheers,
>
>I have registered two new file types in Explorer to make my life easier:
>In Tools:Folder Options:File Types, I've added
>   
>   GZ  --> WinZip
>   TGZ --> WinZip 
>
>You might have to do the same in Netscape (Edit:Preferences:Applications).
>
>---Vladimir
>
>Vladimir G. Ivanovic                    http://www.leonora.org/~vladimir
>2770 Cowper St.                                         vladimir@acm.org
>Palo Alto, CA 94306-2447                                 +1 650 678 8014
>
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>Want to unsubscribe from this list?
>Check out: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple



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Re: AW: documentation archive

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Wednesday 20 December 2000 20:18, Vladimir G Ivanovic wrote:
>   EB> 2) Don't use Winzip to explore a cygwin archive file.
>
> I do this as well without problems, although it's not my preferred
> way of exploring a gzipped tar gile. WinZip will ask if it should
> decompress the file to a temporary directory and open it, which it
> does admirably. Also, see below.

This is an old discussion. WinZip has three problems which are very
annoying.

- tar archives are extracted with CR/LF conversion by default. This
  can be switched off fortunately by a config dialog.

- It doesn't create empty directories from the archive.

- Worst: It doesn't know of Cygwin symbolic links so they are extracted
  without setting the system bit.

That's it and these are the reasons for suggesting not to use WinZip
for unpacking. Especially newbies will not be able to figure what's
gone wrong.

Corinna

-- 
Corinna Vinschen                  Please, send mails regarding Cygwin to
Cygwin Developer                                mailto:cygwin@cygwin.com
Red Hat, Inc.

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Re: AW: documentation archive

[Christopher Faylor]

On Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 08:37:01PM +0100, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
>On Wednesday 20 December 2000 20:18, Vladimir G Ivanovic wrote:
>>   EB> 2) Don't use Winzip to explore a cygwin archive file.
>>
>> I do this as well without problems, although it's not my preferred
>> way of exploring a gzipped tar gile. WinZip will ask if it should
>> decompress the file to a temporary directory and open it, which it
>> does admirably. Also, see below.
>
>This is an old discussion. WinZip has three problems which are very
>annoying.
>
>- tar archives are extracted with CR/LF conversion by default. This
>  can be switched off fortunately by a config dialog.
>
>- It doesn't create empty directories from the archive.
>
>- Worst: It doesn't know of Cygwin symbolic links so they are extracted
>  without setting the system bit.
>
>That's it and these are the reasons for suggesting not to use WinZip
>for unpacking. Especially newbies will not be able to figure what's
>gone wrong.

I wonder if we can add a bit to our version of tar to make it produce
files that are unextractable using winzip.

cgf

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Re: AW: documentation archive

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Wednesday 20 December 2000 20:40, Christopher Faylor wrote:
> I wonder if we can add a bit to our version of tar to make it produce
> files that are unextractable using winzip.

Nice idea but I think this would break all other tar versions, too.

Corinna

-- 
Corinna Vinschen
Cygwin Developer
Red Hat, Inc.
mailto:vinschen@redhat.com

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Re: AW: documentation archive

[Robert Collins]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Faylor" <cgf@redhat.com>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: AW: documentation archive


<snip>
> >That's it and these are the reasons for suggesting not to use WinZip
> >for unpacking. Especially newbies will not be able to figure what's
> >gone wrong.
> 
> I wonder if we can add a bit to our version of tar to make it produce
> files that are unextractable using winzip.
> 
> cgf
> 
I don't believe winzip understands bzip2.
.tar.bz2 might work

Rob


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Re: AW: documentation archive

[Christopher Faylor]

On Thu, Dec 21, 2000 at 02:12:13PM +1300, Robert Collins wrote:
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Christopher Faylor" <cgf@redhat.com>
>To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
>Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 8:40 AM
>Subject: Re: AW: documentation archive
>
>
><snip>
>> >That's it and these are the reasons for suggesting not to use WinZip
>> >for unpacking. Especially newbies will not be able to figure what's
>> >gone wrong.
>> 
>> I wonder if we can add a bit to our version of tar to make it produce
>> files that are unextractable using winzip.
>> 
>> cgf
>> 
>I don't believe winzip understands bzip2.
>.tar.bz2 might work

Hey, good idea!  I've been wanting to adapt setup.exe to use bz2 files.
This is YA reason for doing this.

cgf

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Re: AW: documentation archive

[Robert Collins]

further to this,
    I have seen the following issues with browsers downloading tar.gz files:
* Sometimes they come down in text mode. Urggh. I don't know why and have
never seen it replicated.
* In IE if you download a .tar.gz file as anything other than "all files" in
the save as dialog, IE ungzip's it. This is due AFAICT to a broken
Content-Encoding implementation.
* occasionally name mangling can occur.

The only one that I know happens, and happens frequently is the IE save as.
As IE doesn't understand bzip2 (AFAIK) using bzip2 may also make browser
downloads more robust....

Unfortunately I cannot volunteer to tackle the setup changes :[

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Faylor" <cgf@redhat.com>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: AW: documentation archive


> On Thu, Dec 21, 2000 at 02:12:13PM +1300, Robert Collins wrote:
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Christopher Faylor" <cgf@redhat.com>
> >To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 8:40 AM
> >Subject: Re: AW: documentation archive
> >
> >
> ><snip>
> >> >That's it and these are the reasons for suggesting not to use WinZip
> >> >for unpacking. Especially newbies will not be able to figure what's
> >> >gone wrong.
> >>
> >> I wonder if we can add a bit to our version of tar to make it produce
> >> files that are unextractable using winzip.
> >>
> >> cgf
> >>
> >I don't believe winzip understands bzip2.
> >.tar.bz2 might work
>
> Hey, good idea!  I've been wanting to adapt setup.exe to use bz2 files.
> This is YA reason for doing this.
>
> cgf
>
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>
>


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Re: AW: documentation archive

[Charles Wilson]

> >I don't believe winzip understands bzip2.
> >.tar.bz2 might work
> 
> Hey, good idea!  I've been wanting to adapt setup.exe to use bz2 files.
> This is YA reason for doing this.

One (small) problem.  Netscape assumes that .bz2 files are text, and
displays them within the browser window.  To get a download, you *must*
right-click/save-as, you can't just left-click.  Not a big deal, but it
will generate FAQs. 

--Chuck

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AW: documentation archive

[klaus.berndl]

we loaded cgwin-docs_tar.tar, but we can not open it. tar says "hmm,
seems not to be a tar archive" and winzip read a header with 0 byte. Can
you help us ?

You have probably downloaded a *.tar.gz file with a Windows program
like Netscape. These programs rename auto. files with more than one
point in it to a name with underscores and so on (this is very annoying).
You can avoid this if you already correct the name in File-Save dialog of
netscape.

Rename your already loaded file cgwin-docs_tar.tar to cgwin-docs.tar.gz and
extract it with "tar -xzvf cgwin-docs.tar.gz" and it will work
(i hope :-).

Klaus

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