Re: SETUP WIZARD FOR CYGWIN?XFREE86

Re: SETUP WIZARD FOR CYGWIN?XFREE86

[egor duda]

Hi!

Tuesday, 24 July, 2001 Charles Wilson cwilson@ece.gatech.edu wrote:

CW> Port rpm to win32.  Not cygwin.

i can't see why "not cygwin". bootstrapping *is* a problem, but
honestly, it seems easier to me than mingw port of rpm.

cygwin1.dll is reasonably self-sufficient nowadays. i'm using
"minimalistic ssh client" which consists of 3 files: cygwin1.dll,
ssh.exe (from openssh) and small bat file which sets %HOME% before
staring ssh. everything's working perfectly either on wnt or w9x.
sure, rpm is more "system-dependent" than ssh, but anyway, i don't see
a big problem to create mounts (the only (?) cygwinism rpm really
needs) on the early stages of bootstrap.

if you're concerned about different versions of cygwin1.dll, take a
look at cygwin testsuite. there're no problems with testing new build of
cygwin1.dll while several programs based on the old one are running
in the same time on the same machine.

Egor.            mailto:deo@logos-m.ru ICQ 5165414 FidoNet 2:5020/496.19


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Re: SETUP WIZARD FOR CYGWIN?XFREE86

[Bobby McNulty]

egor, I'm finallizing my poert of Csound using the gcc compiler and mingw
and w32api. I'll post the program on my webpage some day soon. What will be
available are sources to study and build from and the binararies to test the
program.
Csound is a sound processing utility originally made in 1986 at MIT. It can
be used to create sound, filter recorded sound, sound effects, MIDI
programming, etc. My port uses the Pentium Classic. But that will change
when i upgrade.
I have used parts of the Mingw and W32api. I undeffed IN and OUT because the
program uses its own version, __cdecl because I got tired of if defing each
time, and frm1.
I have a question for the list, which i will post in just a second.
----- Original Message -----
From: "egor duda" <deo@logos-m.ru>
To: "Charles Wilson" <cwilson@ece.gatech.edu>
Cc: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: SETUP WIZARD FOR CYGWIN?XFREE86


> Hi!
>
> Tuesday, 24 July, 2001 Charles Wilson cwilson@ece.gatech.edu wrote:
>
> CW> Port rpm to win32.  Not cygwin.
>
> i can't see why "not cygwin". bootstrapping *is* a problem, but
> honestly, it seems easier to me than mingw port of rpm.
>
> cygwin1.dll is reasonably self-sufficient nowadays. i'm using
> "minimalistic ssh client" which consists of 3 files: cygwin1.dll,
> ssh.exe (from openssh) and small bat file which sets %HOME% before
> staring ssh. everything's working perfectly either on wnt or w9x.
> sure, rpm is more "system-dependent" than ssh, but anyway, i don't see
> a big problem to create mounts (the only (?) cygwinism rpm really
> needs) on the early stages of bootstrap.
>
> if you're concerned about different versions of cygwin1.dll, take a
> look at cygwin testsuite. there're no problems with testing new build of
> cygwin1.dll while several programs based on the old one are running
> in the same time on the same machine.
>
> Egor.            mailto:deo@logos-m.ru ICQ 5165414 FidoNet 2:5020/496.19
>
>
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Mailing list etiquette [Was: Re: SETUP WIZARD FOR CYGWIN?XFREE86]

[Charles Wilson]

Bobby:
1) Why was your message quoted below part of the "SETUP WIZARD FOR 
CYGWIN?XFREE86" thread? What does it have to do with anything that had 
been discussed in that thread previously? If you wanted to post this 
message to the list, it should have been a NEW message with a NEW 
subject heading.  I note that this is a common practice for you, Bobby 
-- you often reply to an ongoing thread with a new topic.  *Don't do 
that*.  New topic == New subject line, new thread.

If you really want to tie it to the previous thread, you can use the 
Was: modifier like I did in this message.

#2) Why was your message directed to egor? ("egor, I'm final...") Is it 
part of an ongoing private conversation you've been having with him?  If 
so, then it should have been a private email.  If not, is there some 
context that makes a mingw port of CSound particularly interesting to 
egor, yet requires that the message be public?

For instance, I addressed this email to you, Bobby, because the context 
is: I am commenting directly on the content of YOUR earlier message.  I 
don't see how your message (again, as quoted below) directly relates to 
egor's prior posting; therefore it shouldn't have been addressed to him 
AFAICT.  Furthermore, I posted this message to the public list, rather 
than sending privately, because I feel that a public discussion of 
mailing list etiquette as expected on cygwin@ may be useful.

#3) I kind of doubt that your message, as quoted below, was of interest 
to the list, since the message concerns a port of CSound to Win32, using 
the mingw compiler -- not cygwin.

Perhaps you should have announced your Csound port on the mingw mailing 
list?

--Chuck

Bobby McNulty wrote:

> egor, I'm finallizing my poert of Csound using the gcc compiler and mingw
> and w32api. I'll post the program on my webpage some day soon. What will be
> available are sources to study and build from and the binararies to test the
> program.
> Csound is a sound processing utility originally made in 1986 at MIT. It can
> be used to create sound, filter recorded sound, sound effects, MIDI
> programming, etc. My port uses the Pentium Classic. But that will change
> when i upgrade.
> I have used parts of the Mingw and W32api. I undeffed IN and OUT because the
> program uses its own version, __cdecl because I got tired of if defing each
> time, and frm1.



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Re: SETUP WIZARD FOR CYGWIN?XFREE86

[Charles Wilson]

Bobby:
1) Why was your message quoted below part of the "SETUP WIZARD FOR 
CYGWIN?XFREE86" thread? What does it have to do with anything that had 
been discussed in that thread previously? If you wanted to post this 
message to the list, it should have been a NEW message with a NEW 
subject heading.  I note that this is a common practice for you, Bobby 
-- you often reply to an ongoing thread with a new topic.  *Don't do 
that*.  New topic == New subject line, new thread.

If you really want to tie it to the previous thread, you can use the 
Was: modifier like I did in this message.

#2) Why was your message directed to egor? ("egor, I'm final...") Is it 
part of an ongoing private conversation you've been having with him?  If 
so, then it should have been a private email.  If not, is there some 
context that makes a mingw port of CSound particularly interesting to 
egor, yet requires that the message be public?

For instance, I addressed this email to you, Bobby, because the context 
is: I am commenting directly on the content of YOUR earlier message.  I 
don't see how your message (again, as quoted below) directly relates to 
egor's prior posting; therefore it shouldn't have been addressed to him 
AFAICT.  Furthermore, I posted this message to the public list, rather 
than sending privately, because I feel that a public discussion of 
mailing list etiquette as expected on cygwin@ may be useful.

#3) I kind of doubt that your message, as quoted below, was of interest 
to the list, since the message concerns a port of CSound to Win32, using 
the mingw compiler -- not cygwin.

Perhaps you should have announced your Csound port on the mingw mailing 
list?

--Chuck

Bobby McNulty wrote:

 > egor, I'm finallizing my poert of Csound using the gcc compiler and mingw
 > and w32api. I'll post the program on my webpage some day soon. What 
will be
 > available are sources to study and build from and the binararies to 
test the
 > program.
 > Csound is a sound processing utility originally made in 1986 at MIT. 
It can
 > be used to create sound, filter recorded sound, sound effects, MIDI
 > programming, etc. My port uses the Pentium Classic. But that will change
 > when i upgrade.
 > I have used parts of the Mingw and W32api. I undeffed IN and OUT 
because the
 > program uses its own version, __cdecl because I got tired of if 
defing each
 > time, and frm1.
 > I have a question for the list, which i will post in just a second.



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Re: SETUP WIZARD FOR CYGWIN?XFREE86

[Charles Wilson]

Charles Wilson wrote:

> 
> If you really want to tie it to the previous thread, you can use the 
> Was: modifier like I did in this message.

Hmm...after all that, the Was: modifier didn't come through.  Weird. 
The subject line *should* have been:

"Mailing list etiquette [Was: Re: SETUP WIZARD FOR CYGWIN?XFREE86]"

Well now I feel sheepish.

--Chuck


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Re: Mailing list etiquette [Was: Re: SETUP WIZARD FOR CYGWIN?XFREE86]

[Christopher Faylor]

For the record, I've sent Bobby private email a couple of times warning
him about off-topic posts.  I've gotten private complaints from readers
of this mailing list about his messages.

I've actually started composing several public messages in the last few
days announcing "This is your last warning" but I really really really
hate blocking people from posting here unless they are actually clueless
spammers.

So, I appreciate Chuck's analysis here.  It was better than I could have
done.

Bobby, *please* think three times before sending email here.  To be
blunt, 99% of what you send is really of questionable value.

cgf

On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 02:31:57PM -0400, Charles Wilson wrote:
>Bobby:
>1) Why was your message quoted below part of the "SETUP WIZARD FOR 
>CYGWIN?XFREE86" thread? What does it have to do with anything that had 
>been discussed in that thread previously? If you wanted to post this 
>message to the list, it should have been a NEW message with a NEW 
>subject heading.  I note that this is a common practice for you, Bobby 
>-- you often reply to an ongoing thread with a new topic.  *Don't do 
>that*.  New topic == New subject line, new thread.
>
>If you really want to tie it to the previous thread, you can use the 
>Was: modifier like I did in this message.
>
>#2) Why was your message directed to egor? ("egor, I'm final...") Is it 
>part of an ongoing private conversation you've been having with him?  If 
>so, then it should have been a private email.  If not, is there some 
>context that makes a mingw port of CSound particularly interesting to 
>egor, yet requires that the message be public?
>
>For instance, I addressed this email to you, Bobby, because the context 
>is: I am commenting directly on the content of YOUR earlier message.  I 
>don't see how your message (again, as quoted below) directly relates to 
>egor's prior posting; therefore it shouldn't have been addressed to him 
>AFAICT.  Furthermore, I posted this message to the public list, rather 
>than sending privately, because I feel that a public discussion of 
>mailing list etiquette as expected on cygwin@ may be useful.
>
>#3) I kind of doubt that your message, as quoted below, was of interest 
>to the list, since the message concerns a port of CSound to Win32, using 
>the mingw compiler -- not cygwin.
>
>Perhaps you should have announced your Csound port on the mingw mailing 
>list?

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Sorry (Was Re: SETUP WIZARD FOR CYGWIN?XFREE86)

[Bobby McNulty]

I'll go away back into hiding now.




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RPM installer (was Re: SETUP WIZARD FOR CYGWIN?XFREE86)

[Dario Alcocer]

>>>>> "egor" == egor duda <deo@logos-m.ru> writes:

    egor> Hi!  Tuesday, 24 July, 2001 Charles Wilson
    egor> cwilson@ece.gatech.edu wrote:

    CW> Port rpm to win32.  Not cygwin.

    egor> i can't see why "not cygwin". bootstrapping *is* a problem,
    egor> but honestly, it seems easier to me than mingw port of rpm.

    egor> cygwin1.dll is reasonably self-sufficient nowadays. i'm
    egor> using "minimalistic ssh client" which consists of 3 files:
    egor> cygwin1.dll, ssh.exe (from openssh) and small bat file which
    egor> sets %HOME% before staring ssh. everything's working
    egor> perfectly either on wnt or w9x.  sure, rpm is more
    egor> "system-dependent" than ssh, but anyway, i don't see a big
    egor> problem to create mounts (the only (?) cygwinism rpm really
    egor> needs) on the early stages of bootstrap.

    egor> if you're concerned about different versions of cygwin1.dll,
    egor> take a look at cygwin testsuite. there're no problems with
    egor> testing new build of cygwin1.dll while several programs
    egor> based on the old one are running in the same time on the
    egor> same machine.

Egor, it's very interesting that you mention this approach to
bootstrapping RPM.  I've in fact built an initial working version of a
Tcl/Tk GUI installer using the *exact* approach you mention, using a
small Cygwin bootstrap environment (rpm.exe, sh.exe, mount.exe
cygwin1.dll, and other necessary programs.)

The installation is performed in two steps:

1. Create the necessary directories and mounts, unpack rpm binary tar,
   then run 'rpm --initdb'

2. Run rpm to install RPM files.

All the install related tasks (cygwin.bat creation, installing bash
short-cut, running mkpasswd and mkgroup, etc.) are performed by RPM
post-install scripts.

Best part is, it actually *works*.  I've not completed all the work on
it (I've been too busy with several consulting gigs to spend more than
3-5 hours per week on it.)  However, I now have a staff member that's
tying up the loose ends and getting it ready for actual use (I plan on
using the Tcl/Tk installer in my consulting work.)  The main
limitation now is that there isn't a self-extracting mechanism worked
out yet that would create the bootstrap environment before launching
the Tcl/Tk GUI installer.  For my purposes, I was planning on creating
CDs with the necessary bootstrap environment pre-unpacked, so this
would only be an issue for trying to support a self-contained
network-based installer like the current setup.exe.  This is not an
insurmountable problem, so I expect to have something implemented for
this feature eventually.

Anyway, at some point I'd like to be able to offer it to the Cygwin
project.  Unfortunately, it's still very immature to be widely
released, which is why I had not suggested or mentioned it before.
Nevertheless, if any of you are interested in playing around with the
installer, I could put a CD-ROM .iso image (~13MB) up on my web site
eventually when the work is done (I hope to have a very rough first
release by the middle of August.)

-- 
Dario Alcocer -- Sr. Software Developer, Helix Digital Inc.
Cygwin Ghostscript maintainer
alcocer@helixdigital.com -- http://www.helixdigital.com

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Re: RPM installer (was Re: SETUP WIZARD FOR CYGWIN?XFREE86)

[Charles Wilson]

Sounds cool, Dario.  How have your db and rpm ports been generated? 
Which versions are you using, db-3 and rpm-4, or db-2 and rpm-3 ?  Is db 
built as a dll, or as a static lib ?

BTW, for your purposes perhaps you could pack up your bootstrap 
environment into a self-extracting zip file ?

--Chuck

Dario Alcocer wrote:


> Egor, it's very interesting that you mention this approach to
> bootstrapping RPM.  I've in fact built an initial working version of a
> Tcl/Tk GUI installer using the *exact* approach you mention, using a
> small Cygwin bootstrap environment (rpm.exe, sh.exe, mount.exe
> cygwin1.dll, and other necessary programs.)
> 
> The installation is performed in two steps:
> 
> 1. Create the necessary directories and mounts, unpack rpm binary tar,
>    then run 'rpm --initdb'
> 
> 2. Run rpm to install RPM files.
> 
> All the install related tasks (cygwin.bat creation, installing bash
> short-cut, running mkpasswd and mkgroup, etc.) are performed by RPM
> post-install scripts.
> 
> Best part is, it actually *works*.  I've not completed all the work on
> it (I've been too busy with several consulting gigs to spend more than
> 3-5 hours per week on it.)  However, I now have a staff member that's
> tying up the loose ends and getting it ready for actual use (I plan on
> using the Tcl/Tk installer in my consulting work.)  The main
> limitation now is that there isn't a self-extracting mechanism worked
> out yet that would create the bootstrap environment before launching
> the Tcl/Tk GUI installer.  For my purposes, I was planning on creating
> CDs with the necessary bootstrap environment pre-unpacked, so this
> would only be an issue for trying to support a self-contained
> network-based installer like the current setup.exe.  This is not an
> insurmountable problem, so I expect to have something implemented for
> this feature eventually.
> 
> Anyway, at some point I'd like to be able to offer it to the Cygwin
> project.  Unfortunately, it's still very immature to be widely
> released, which is why I had not suggested or mentioned it before.
> Nevertheless, if any of you are interested in playing around with the
> installer, I could put a CD-ROM .iso image (~13MB) up on my web site
> eventually when the work is done (I hope to have a very rough first
> release by the middle of August.)




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Re: RPM installer (was Re: SETUP WIZARD FOR CYGWIN?XFREE86)

[Dario Alcocer]

>>>>> "Chuck" == Charles Wilson <cwilson@ece.gatech.edu> writes:

    Chuck> Sounds cool, Dario.  How have your db and rpm ports been
    Chuck> generated?

Yes, the ports are done.  Basically, I took the Project HeavyMoon[1]
patches for db-2/rpm-3 and reworked them slightly.  The only thing I
found so far is that find-requires needs to call cygcheck (instead of
ldd), but other than that, it seems to work fine.  Post-install and
pre-uninstall scripts work fine.

I had thought about submitting my db-2/rpm-3 ports as contributed
packages, but I didn't know how much interest there would be, given
that both are old versions.

    Chuck> Is db built as a dll, or as a static lib ?

Currently db is linked statically, but I suppose that a DLL should
work.

    Chuck> BTW, for your purposes perhaps you could pack up your
    Chuck> bootstrap environment into a self-extracting zip file ?

Yes, I think that would work fine.  I was thinking about looking for
an open-source/GPL solution, but I've not started looking yet.  If you
can point me to something, I'd definitely would look at it.

[1] - see http://www10.u-page.so-net.ne.jp/fa2/riue-s/index.html

-- 
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alcocer@helixdigital.com -- http://www.helixdigital.com

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Re: RPM installer (was Re: SETUP WIZARD FOR CYGWIN?XFREE86)

[Rue. SATOH]

Hello.

Project HeavyMoon was moved to http://www.sixnine.net/cygwin/ ,
but I don't announced yet.

In < 15199.13076.290060.138271@coyote.priv.helixdigital.com >,
Dario Alcocer <alcocer@helixdigital.com> wrote:

alcocer> Yes, the ports are done.  Basically, I took the Project HeavyMoon[1]
alcocer> patches for db-2/rpm-3 and reworked them slightly.  
:
alcocer> Currently db is linked statically, but I suppose that a DLL should
alcocer> work.

I had built db-3.1.17 with DLLize patch.
If you want, please get from Project HeavyMoon.
My rpm port use some DLL(cygbz, cygdb, cygz) now.

And I had made tarball that include minimum environment and tools.

o ash
o mkgroup
o mkpasswd
o mount
o umount 
o rpm 
o rpm2cpio
o cygbz21.0.dll
o cygdb3.dll
o cygwin1.dll
o cygz.dll

This tarball is ftp://ftp.st.ryukoku.ac.jp/pub/ms-windows/HeavyMoon/instkit.tar.gz .

I think that we shall use this sequence to install.
I usually use this sequence for build to my cygwin environment that
all packages are managemented by rpm(Now, I don't use packages that
provided by cygwin.com).

1. extract minimum environment and tools(Ex. instkit.tar.gz).
2. mount / directory.
3. rpm --initdb
4. mkpasswd & mkgroup(optional)
5. install some rpm packages
   o termcap(DLLized)
   o zlib(DLLized)
   o ncurses(DLLized)
   o ash
   o info
   o grep
   o bash
   o bzip2(including DLLized bzip2 library)
   o db(DLLized)
   o popt
   o file
   o rpm

Why we use this sequence? Because rpm.exe depend cygz.dll,
cygbz21.0.dll and cygdb3.dll. rpm.exe use file.exe, sh.exe
and some tools too...

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Re: RPM installer (was Re: SETUP WIZARD FOR CYGWIN?XFREE86)

[Dario Alcocer]

>>>>> "Rue" == Rue SATOH <rsato@ccs.co.jp> writes:

    Rue> Hello.
    Rue> Project HeavyMoon was moved to http://www.sixnine.net/cygwin/ ,
    Rue> but I don't announced yet.

Thanks for the information, I'll check out the new site soon.

    Rue> I had built db-3.1.17 with DLLize patch.
    Rue> If you want, please get from Project HeavyMoon.
    Rue> My rpm port use some DLL(cygbz, cygdb, cygz) now.

Great, I'll check out the port.  Do you have a src.rpm for RPM?  I'd
be interested in reviewing the *.patch files and the .spec file too.

    Rue> And I had made tarball that include minimum environment and tools.

    Rue> o ash
    Rue> o mkgroup
    Rue> o mkpasswd
    Rue> o mount
    Rue> o umount 
    Rue> o rpm 
    Rue> o rpm2cpio
    Rue> o cygbz21.0.dll
    Rue> o cygdb3.dll
    Rue> o cygwin1.dll
    Rue> o cygz.dll

    Rue> I think that we shall use this sequence to install.
    Rue> I usually use this sequence for build to my cygwin environment that
    Rue> all packages are managemented by rpm(Now, I don't use packages that
    Rue> provided by cygwin.com).

    Rue> 1. extract minimum environment and tools(Ex. instkit.tar.gz).
    Rue> 2. mount / directory.
    Rue> 3. rpm --initdb
    Rue> 4. mkpasswd & mkgroup(optional)

Actually, this could be done by a Cygwin-specific RPM package, one
that contains a post-install script that would create the /etc/passwd
and /etc/group files.

    Rue> 5. install some rpm packages
    Rue>    o termcap(DLLized)
    Rue>    o zlib(DLLized)
    Rue>    o ncurses(DLLized)
    Rue>    o ash
    Rue>    o info
    Rue>    o grep
    Rue>    o bash
    Rue>    o bzip2(including DLLized bzip2 library)
    Rue>    o db(DLLized)
    Rue>    o popt
    Rue>    o file
    Rue>    o rpm

    Rue> Why we use this sequence? Because rpm.exe depend cygz.dll,
    Rue> cygbz21.0.dll and cygdb3.dll. rpm.exe use file.exe, sh.exe
    Rue> and some tools too...

Yes, installation order does matter, but this is the same issue you
run into with the Linux version of RPM, so we're not really any worse
off.

-- 
Dario Alcocer -- Sr. Software Developer, Helix Digital Inc.
alcocer@helixdigital.com -- http://www.helixdigital.com

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Re: RPM installer (was Re: SETUP WIZARD FOR CYGWIN?XFREE86)

[Rue. SATOH]

Hello.

In < 15200.14971.630343.872301@coyote.priv.helixdigital.com >,
Dario Alcocer <alcocer@helixdigital.com> wrote: 

alcocer>     Rue> I had built db-3.1.17 with DLLize patch.
alcocer>     Rue> If you want, please get from Project HeavyMoon.
alcocer>     Rue> My rpm port use some DLL(cygbz, cygdb, cygz) now.
alcocer> 
alcocer> Great, I'll check out the port.  Do you have a src.rpm for RPM?  I'd
alcocer> be interested in reviewing the *.patch files and the .spec file too.

Yes I do. I made and distributed src.rpm. But it doesn't include db's
source code. This src.rpm include only *.patch and .spec file(It is
called 'nosrc.rpm').

alcocer>     Rue> 1. extract minimum environment and tools(Ex. instkit.tar.gz).
alcocer>     Rue> 2. mount / directory.
alcocer>     Rue> 3. rpm --initdb
alcocer>     Rue> 4. mkpasswd & mkgroup(optional)
alcocer> 
alcocer> Actually, this could be done by a Cygwin-specific RPM package, one
alcocer> that contains a post-install script that would create the /etc/passwd
alcocer> and /etc/group files.

Why? Why do you create /etc/passwd and /etc/group in post-install
script? I afraid of upgrade of rpm packages. If you do 'rpm -Uvh rpm-package.rpm',
/etc/passwd and /etc/group is overwritten by post-install script.

--
[ Rue. SATOH ] rsato@ccs.co.jp

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