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* Re: bash and the delete key
@ 2002-11-05  8:16 Steve Chapel
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 45+ messages in thread
From: Steve Chapel @ 2002-11-05  8:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: cygwin

Sylvain Petreolle <spetreolle at yahoo dot fr> wrote:
 >So why don't we provide a default .inputrc with at least this option
 >enabled ?
 >
 > --- Randall R Schulz <rrschulz@cris.com> a écrit : > Paul,
 >>
 >> [To get the delete key to work on the console,]
 >> Add this line to your "$HOME/.inputrc" file:
 >>
 >>    "\M-[3~":   delete-char
 >>
 >> This escape sequence happens to be shared by RXVT and the console.

Could we at least mention this in the FAQ?


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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 45+ messages in thread
* Re: bash and the delete key
@ 2002-07-31 14:27 Barry Buchbinder
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 45+ messages in thread
From: Barry Buchbinder @ 2002-07-31 14:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: cygwin

> On 31 Jul 2002 at 14:09, Jelks Cabaniss wrote:
> 
> > Barry Buchbinder wrote:
> > 
> > > Regarding "The support of ... are so universal":
 M$
> > > considers their way to be universal, and
considering
> > > their market share, it is closer to being true
than
> > > many of us like.
> > 
> > Universality is somewhat relative. :)  Those
keystrokes were in Windows
> > 3.0 and early OS/2's (and Ctrl+X, C, & V weren't).
> 
> And MS-DOS applications. Lots of them. The editor
that came with 
> later versions of MS-DOS (3.x and above IIRC) for
one; also the 
> qbasic environment.

If we're looking at what M$ used to do, IIRC they used
to publish a Unix clone (Minix?).  But it's been a
long time since one might consider Bill Gates as an
advocate of any flavor of *nix.  :)

I was using ^V in Vi in the mid '80s and constantly
got confused with shift-insert, etc. when I played
with qbasic some years later.  So I know some of the
history.  It's just no longer relevant that M$ used to
put out software that behaved like that -- its been
years since they did so.  My original -- admittedly
unstated -- point was that anyone advocating that M$
change copy, paste, and cut so it behaves a bit like
non-M$ software is likely to spend more time composing
the letter than all of M$ will in considering it.

- Barry

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 45+ messages in thread
* Re: bash and the delete key
@ 2002-07-31 13:33 Jelks Cabaniss
  2002-07-31 14:15 ` Paul Derbyshire
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 45+ messages in thread
From: Jelks Cabaniss @ 2002-07-31 13:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: cygwin

Barry Buchbinder wrote:

> Regarding "The support of ... are so universal":  M$
> considers their way to be universal, and considering
> their market share, it is closer to being true than
> many of us like.

Universality is somewhat relative. :)  Those keystrokes were in Windows
3.0 and early OS/2's (and Ctrl+X, C, & V weren't).  But with Win 3.1,
they adopted the Mac conventions (instead of Cmd+X ... it was Ctrl+X
...) and just kept those old keys for backwards compatibility.  Modern
Win programs don't have Shift+Insert ... on their Edit menus.  

But most people -- especially those using Cygwin! -- don't have a
problem with overloaded CTRL key functions.  When in vi, I certainly
don't expect my NoteTab Pro CTRL keys to work.  :)


/Jelks


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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 45+ messages in thread
* RE: bash and the delete key
@ 2002-07-31 13:26 Stephan Mueller
  2002-08-01 12:07 ` Samuel
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 45+ messages in thread
From: Stephan Mueller @ 2002-07-31 13:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Samuel, cygwin

I expect that the old keystrokes will probably be supported pretty much
forever (hmm, does Unix still go into all uppercase mode if you enter
your userid in all caps at login?)

I don't know how universal the old cut/copy/paste keystrokes are, but
Ctrl-C/X/V are universal in Windows apps these days.

I wasn't responding to the message you were responding to (about
Insert), I was responding to yours (about Ctrl-Insert, etc.).  You
suggested that the obsolete Windows keystrokes were a good choice for
use in Cygwin because "if a Windows user were to get in the habit of
using them in Windows then they should be able to use the "correct" keys
by habit".  My objection was to the part were you suggested that Windows
users get into the habit of using the obsolete keys in Windows.

stephan(not necessarily reflecting the views of my employer);


-----Original Message-----
From: Samuel [mailto:samuel@socal.rr.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 7:26 AM
To: cygwin@cygwin.com
Subject: Re: bash and the delete key


If I had things my way, I would encourage Microsoft to discontinue
making the transition in the wrong direction. The support of
Shift+Insert,
Ctrl+Insert and Shift+Delete are so universal that I think there would 
Ctrl+be
significant protest if support was discontinued. I understand that you
are advising not to encourage use of them but notice that I responded to
a recomendation to use "Insert" instead of Shift-Insert. I am surprised
that you did not make a comment on use of plain "Insert". Also not that
my reply was for a discussion in which the Microsoft recommendation is
not possible.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephan Mueller" <smueller@Exchange.Microsoft.com>
To: "Samuel" <samuel@socal.rr.com>; <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: bash and the delete key


Please note that the Ctrl-Insert/Shift-Insert/Shift-Delete keystrokes
are legacy, supported for backwards compatibility.  The modern standard
is indeed Ctrl-C/V/X.

From "The Windows Interface Guidelines for Software Design" (covers
Windows 95 and NT! -- so you know it's not brand new :-)

"The system still supports shortcut assignments available in earlier
versions of Microsoft Windows (Alt+Backspace, Shift+Insert,
Ctrl+Insert, Shift+Delete).  You should consider supporting them (though
not documenting them) to support the transition of users."

(This is a footnote in Appendix B, which documents the standard
shortcuts - Ctrl-C/V/X among them).

As long as folks don't actually make the transition, I suspect the OS
will continue to support them, but please, let's not encourage folks to
make the transition in the wrong direction :-)

stephan();



-----Original Message-----
From: Samuel [mailto:samuel@socal.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:03 PM
To: cygwin@cygwin.com
Subject: Re: bash and the delete key


----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall R Schulz" <rrschulz@cris.com>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: bash and the delete key
>
> Mapping the insert clipboard to the "Insert" key is sufficiently 
> "hella-useful."


I did not pay sufficient attention to what I was doing and this reply
got sent to Randall instead of to the list, so it has been delayed a
day.

I don't use Ctrl-V to insert the clipboard; I use Shift-Insert. I use
Ctrl-Insert to copy to the clipboard and Shift-Delete to cut. These have
been standard since Windows 3.1. I learned to use them by using the
technique of remembering that Ctrl-Insert begins with "C" as in "Copy".
If these keys were used in CygWin and if a Windows user were to get in
the habit of using them in Windows then they should be able to use the
"correct" keys by habit. I have encountered very few situations in which
Ctrl-Insert does not work and in the situations it does not work I did
not even think to try using Ctrl-V. I think that one situation in which
Ctrl-Insert does not work is Adobe Acrobat (the find dialog at least)
and all others are less common; at least less commonly used by me.



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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 45+ messages in thread
* Re: bash and the delete key
@ 2002-07-31 11:07 Barry Buchbinder
  2002-07-31 11:36 ` Samuel
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 45+ messages in thread
From: Barry Buchbinder @ 2002-07-31 11:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: cygwin; +Cc: samuel

Right!  Like M$ is going to help train their users to
do things the *nix way so switching to *nix will be
easier!

Regarding "The support of ... are so universal":  M$
considers their way to be universal, and considering
their market share, it is closer to being true than
many of us like.

- Barry

=================

If I had things my way, I would encourage Microsoft to
discontinue making
the transition in the wrong direction. The support of
Shift+Insert,
Ctrl+Insert and Shift+Delete are so universal that I
think there would be
significant protest if support was discontinued. I
understand that you are
advising not to encourage use of them but notice that
I responded to a
recomendation to use "Insert" instead of Shift-Insert.
I am surprised that
you did not make a comment on use of plain "Insert".
Also not that my reply
was for a discussion in which the Microsoft
recommendation is not possible.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephan Mueller"
<smueller@Exchange.Microsoft.com>
To: "Samuel" <samuel@socal.rr.com>;
<cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: bash and the delete key

Please note that the
Ctrl-Insert/Shift-Insert/Shift-Delete keystrokes
are legacy, supported for backwards compatibility. 
The modern standard
is indeed Ctrl-C/V/X.

From "The Windows Interface Guidelines for Software
Design" (covers
Windows 95 and NT! -- so you know it's not brand new
:-)

"The system still supports shortcut assignments
available in
earlier versions of Microsoft Windows (Alt+Backspace,
Shift+Insert,
Ctrl+Insert, Shift+Delete).  You should consider
supporting them (though
not documenting them) to support the transition of
users."

(This is a footnote in Appendix B, which documents the
standard
shortcuts - Ctrl-C/V/X among them).

As long as folks don't actually make the transition, I
suspect the OS
will continue to support them, but please, let's not
encourage folks to
make the transition in the wrong direction :-)

stephan();

-----Original Message-----
From: Samuel [mailto:samuel@socal.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:03 PM
To: cygwin@cygwin.com
Subject: Re: bash and the delete key

----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall R Schulz" <rrschulz@cris.com>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: bash and the delete key
>
> Mapping the insert clipboard to the "Insert" key is
sufficiently
> "hella-useful."

I did not pay sufficient attention to what I was doing
and this reply
got sent to Randall instead of to the list, so it has
been delayed a
day.

I don't use Ctrl-V to insert the clipboard; I use
Shift-Insert. I use
Ctrl-Insert to copy to the clipboard and Shift-Delete
to cut. These have
been standard since Windows 3.1. I learned to use them
by using the
technique of remembering that Ctrl-Insert begins with
"C" as in "Copy".
If these keys were used in CygWin and if a Windows
user were to get in
the habit of using them in Windows then they should be
able to use the
"correct" keys by habit. I have encountered very few
situations in which
Ctrl-Insert does not work and in the situations it
does not work I did
not even think to try using Ctrl-V. I think that one
situation in which
Ctrl-Insert does not work is Adobe Acrobat (the find
dialog at least)
and all others are less common; at least less commonly
used by me.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 45+ messages in thread
* RE: bash and the delete key
@ 2002-07-30 20:55 Stephan Mueller
  2002-07-31  3:31 ` Michael Hoffman
  2002-07-31  9:48 ` Samuel
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 45+ messages in thread
From: Stephan Mueller @ 2002-07-30 20:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Samuel, cygwin

Please note that the Ctrl-Insert/Shift-Insert/Shift-Delete keystrokes
are legacy, supported for backwards compatibility.  The modern standard
is indeed Ctrl-C/V/X.

From "The Windows Interface Guidelines for Software Design" (covers
Windows 95 and NT! -- so you know it's not brand new :-)

	"The system still supports shortcut assignments available in
earlier versions of Microsoft Windows (Alt+Backspace, Shift+Insert,
Ctrl+Insert, Shift+Delete).  You should consider supporting them (though
not documenting them) to support the transition of users."

(This is a footnote in Appendix B, which documents the standard
shortcuts - Ctrl-C/V/X among them).

As long as folks don't actually make the transition, I suspect the OS
will continue to support them, but please, let's not encourage folks to
make the transition in the wrong direction :-)

stephan();



-----Original Message-----
From: Samuel [mailto:samuel@socal.rr.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:03 PM
To: cygwin@cygwin.com
Subject: Re: bash and the delete key


----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall R Schulz" <rrschulz@cris.com>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: bash and the delete key
>
> Mapping the insert clipboard to the "Insert" key is sufficiently 
> "hella-useful."


I did not pay sufficient attention to what I was doing and this reply
got sent to Randall instead of to the list, so it has been delayed a
day.

I don't use Ctrl-V to insert the clipboard; I use Shift-Insert. I use
Ctrl-Insert to copy to the clipboard and Shift-Delete to cut. These have
been standard since Windows 3.1. I learned to use them by using the
technique of remembering that Ctrl-Insert begins with "C" as in "Copy".
If these keys were used in CygWin and if a Windows user were to get in
the habit of using them in Windows then they should be able to use the
"correct" keys by habit. I have encountered very few situations in which
Ctrl-Insert does not work and in the situations it does not work I did
not even think to try using Ctrl-V. I think that one situation in which
Ctrl-Insert does not work is Adobe Acrobat (the find dialog at least)
and all others are less common; at least less commonly used by me.



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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 45+ messages in thread
* Re: bash and the delete key
@ 2002-07-28 16:37 Joshua Daniel Franklin
  2002-07-28 16:55 ` John Morrison
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 45+ messages in thread
From: Joshua Daniel Franklin @ 2002-07-28 16:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: cygwin

> The next generation of the profile package will, probably,
> have a /etc/skel directory.  When /etc/profile creates a
> home directory it will also copy the contents of /etc/skel
> to that directory.

> I suggest that you take up with the bash maintainer the
> (possible) creation of a /etc/skel/.inputrc file with
> appropriate (default) contents :)

> It might even be possible to add two 'defaults' - a
> /etc/skel/.inputrc (linux like defaults)
> /etc/skel/alt/.inputrc.mimic.windows (or something like)

I think this is a great idea for readline (.inputrc), bash
(.bash_profile), tcsh (.cshrc), etc. Actually I don't see
why they couldn't all be in the 'profile' package, though maybe
that's not exactly correct. Also perhaps these files could be
not just useful but also instructional, with comments pointing
out options, examples, and documentation. For example:

# Aliases for Windows equivalents; see 'info fileutils' for differences
alias md='mkdir'
alias rd='rmdir'


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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 45+ messages in thread
* RE: bash and the delete key
@ 2002-07-27  3:16 Randall R Schulz
  2002-07-27 13:03 ` Nicholas Wourms
  2002-07-28 20:47 ` Andrew DeFaria
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 45+ messages in thread
From: Randall R Schulz @ 2002-07-27  3:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Cygwin Discussion


At 20:59 2002-07-26, you wrote:
> > At 20:16 2002-07-26, Some Beer-Swilling Patriot wrote:
> > > > Tony,
> > > >
> > > > Absolutely that's a problem!
> > > >
> > > > CTRL-V is the default assignment for "literal-next" ("lnext") in the
> > > > TTY driver
> > > >
> > >
> > >OK, but to people who never knew that, and now that they do can't 
> imagine why
> > >they'd ever need it, is it a problem?  CTRL-V is "paste" in every windows
> > >program since 3.11 days, and it'd be hella-useful to remap it to
> > something one
> > >would actually use.
> >
> >
> > Cygwin is not Windows.
>
>Then what's the "win" in Cygwin for?

It stands for Windows, the name of the host environment within which a 
POSIX environment is emulated. We're discussing the behavior of the 
emulated environment, not the host environment.


> > Cygwin does not aim to adopt Windows conventions
> > within its environment,
>
>ls c:
>
>Yep, that works.  A lotta work's gone into the text/binary mess as well.

Accepting Windows file name syntax doesn't usurp any existing POSIX 
functionality.


> > at least not as the default.>
>
>By default it has no default, that's why the subject comes up at all.

What is "it" that has no default? CTRL-V has a default assignment: 
literal-next in the TTY driver and in the readline library.


> > People who know what they're doing know what literal next is and does and
> > they use it.
>
>I know what I'm doing.  I've never used it.  The thought that "gee, I wish I
>could type goofy characters at the bash prompt" never even crossed my mind.

No, you don't. You already professed your ignorance.


> > How do you get a TAB into a command line with completion
> > enabled?
>
>Shrug.  Why would you want to?

Grep is the most obvious use.


> > An ESC? A CTRL-A? CTRL-B? CTRL-C? CTRL-D? CTRL-E? CTRL-T? CTRL-P?
> > CTRL-O? CTRL-N? Backslash doesn't handle non-printing characters, only
> > literal next makes it possible to enter them on the command line.
> >
> > Mapping the insert clipboard to the "Insert" key is sufficiently
> > "hella-useful."
>
>Oh I agree 100%.  But it'd be even nicer if, when I reflexively hit 
>CTRL-V, it'd
>do what one would expect it to do on a Windows machine, i.e. paste from the
>clipboard.

Nicer for you. If it's what you want, take matters into your own hands and 
adapt your own environment to your own preferences and leave the stock 
environment in the most POSIX- and / or Unix-compliant state feasible.


>So I ask again, is remapping CTRL-V going to cause any problems for those who
>have no desire to enter tabs on the command line?

For the ignorant, no, it will cause no problems. For those who need literal 
next and have the legitimate expectation that it will be in the default 
place (CTRL-V), yes it matters and should not be changed.

Randall Schulz
Mountain View, CA USA

Randy 


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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 45+ messages in thread
* Re: bash and the delete key
@ 2002-07-26 10:08 Tony Fenleish
  2002-07-26 10:36 ` Randall R Schulz
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 45+ messages in thread
From: Tony Fenleish @ 2002-07-26 10:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: freeweb; +Cc: derbyshire, cygwin

Good tip.  Do you see any issues with adding Ctrl-v to it also?

# Make Insert work
"\e[2~":paste-from-clipboard #insert
"\C-v":paste-from-clipboard  #ctrl-V

-Tony

>From: "Gerrit P. Haase" <freeweb@nyckelpiga.de>
>Reply-To: "Gerrit P. Haase" <freeweb@nyckelpiga.de>
>To: "Tony Fenleish" <tleish@hotmail.com>
>CC: derbyshire@globalserve.net, cygwin@cygwin.com
>Subject: Re: bash and the delete key
>Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:37:53 +0200
>
>Tony schrieb:
>
> > Consistent BackSpace and Delete Configuration
> > Bash:
> > http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard/keyboard.html#Bash
>
> > Background on this can be read at:
> > http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard.html
>
>They missed to point out that there are more useful
>options like this:
>
># Make Insert work
>"\e[2~": paste-from-clipboard
>
>Gerrit
>--
>=^..^=
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 45+ messages in thread
* Re: bash and the delete key
@ 2002-07-25 19:49 Tony Fenleish
  2002-07-26  1:30 ` Dylan Cuthbert
  2002-07-26  7:29 ` Gerrit P. Haase
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 45+ messages in thread
From: Tony Fenleish @ 2002-07-25 19:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: derbyshire, cygwin

Consistent BackSpace and Delete Configuration
Bash:
http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard/keyboard.html#Bash

Background on this can be read at:
http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard.html

>From: "Paul Derbyshire" <derbyshire@globalserve.net>
>Reply-To: derbyshire@globalserve.net
>To: cygwin@cygwin.com
>Subject: bash and the delete key
>Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:01:07 -0400
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>
>Cygwin's bash seems not to interpret the delete key correctly. The
>backspace key nukes the character behind the cursor, as expected. The
>del key doesn't nuke the character ahead of the curser however. It
>inserts a tilde instead. I assume this is something related to either
>a bash setting or a terminal setting, but I ran out of clues (read:
>relevant information in obvious places in the bash man page) without
>fixing it a while back.
>
>I might also note that the gmane news server has not been a success
>for me. I tried to get at these lists as apparently gatewayed there,
>and did the news server's registration thing, but after days of xnews
>reporting zero new articles and my own posting-attempt (on that cron
>problem, and which also was used to trigger the registration process)
>not showing up I gave up on gmane. Obviously something went wrong --
>either it's down, or it's allergic to my news client, or the
>registration silently failed in some way and didn't bother to produce
>an error message and information on how to fix the problem. The
>registration confirm message did show up nearly immediately at my
>Hotmail account when I sent the cron related post, and I followed its
>instructions within the hour, so I definitely did nothing obviously
>wrong or clueless...
>
>--
>Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
>Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 45+ messages in thread
* bash and the delete key
@ 2002-07-25 19:00 Paul Derbyshire
  2002-07-25 19:49 ` Randall R Schulz
  2002-07-25 20:13 ` Christopher Faylor
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 45+ messages in thread
From: Paul Derbyshire @ 2002-07-25 19:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: cygwin

Cygwin's bash seems not to interpret the delete key correctly. The 
backspace key nukes the character behind the cursor, as expected. The 
del key doesn't nuke the character ahead of the curser however. It 
inserts a tilde instead. I assume this is something related to either 
a bash setting or a terminal setting, but I ran out of clues (read: 
relevant information in obvious places in the bash man page) without 
fixing it a while back.

I might also note that the gmane news server has not been a success 
for me. I tried to get at these lists as apparently gatewayed there, 
and did the news server's registration thing, but after days of xnews 
reporting zero new articles and my own posting-attempt (on that cron 
problem, and which also was used to trigger the registration process) 
not showing up I gave up on gmane. Obviously something went wrong -- 
either it's down, or it's allergic to my news client, or the 
registration silently failed in some way and didn't bother to produce 
an error message and information on how to fix the problem. The 
registration confirm message did show up nearly immediately at my 
Hotmail account when I sent the cron related post, and I followed its 
instructions within the hour, so I definitely did nothing obviously 
wrong or clueless...

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 45+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2002-11-05 16:16 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 45+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
     [not found] <20020728170355.GA11806@butch.jgcomp.com>
2002-07-28 17:57 ` bash and the delete key Joshua Daniel Franklin
2002-11-05  8:16 Steve Chapel
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-07-31 14:27 Barry Buchbinder
2002-07-31 13:33 Jelks Cabaniss
2002-07-31 14:15 ` Paul Derbyshire
2002-07-31 13:26 Stephan Mueller
2002-08-01 12:07 ` Samuel
2002-07-31 11:07 Barry Buchbinder
2002-07-31 11:36 ` Samuel
2002-07-30 20:55 Stephan Mueller
2002-07-31  3:31 ` Michael Hoffman
2002-07-31  9:48 ` Samuel
2002-07-28 16:37 Joshua Daniel Franklin
2002-07-28 16:55 ` John Morrison
2002-07-27  3:16 Randall R Schulz
2002-07-27 13:03 ` Nicholas Wourms
2002-07-27 15:54   ` Randall R Schulz
2002-07-28 20:47 ` Andrew DeFaria
2002-07-28 20:56   ` Randall R Schulz
2002-07-28 21:18     ` Christopher Faylor
2002-07-29 10:55       ` Nicholas Wourms
2002-07-29  0:00     ` Gary R. Van Sickle
2002-07-29  0:08       ` Christopher Faylor
2002-07-29  1:21         ` Gary R. Van Sickle
2002-07-28 23:52   ` Gary R. Van Sickle
2002-07-26 10:08 Tony Fenleish
2002-07-26 10:36 ` Randall R Schulz
2002-07-27  0:19   ` Gary R. Van Sickle
     [not found]   ` <NCBBIHCHBLCMLBLOBONKIEMJDCAA.g.r.vansickle@worldnet.att.ne t>
2002-07-27  1:06     ` Randall R Schulz
2002-07-27  1:21       ` Gary R. Van Sickle
2002-07-30 19:59       ` Samuel
2002-07-26 13:40 ` Igor Pechtchanski
2002-07-28 10:06 ` John Morrison
2002-07-25 19:49 Tony Fenleish
2002-07-26  1:30 ` Dylan Cuthbert
2002-07-26  7:29 ` Gerrit P. Haase
2002-07-25 19:00 Paul Derbyshire
2002-07-25 19:49 ` Randall R Schulz
2002-07-25 22:30   ` Sylvain Petreolle
2002-07-26  2:51     ` Paul Derbyshire
     [not found]       ` <Mahogany-0.64.2-2620-20020725-204157.00@MCHASE-COMPAQ>
2002-07-26  4:17         ` Michael A Chase
2002-07-26  4:37     ` Gary R. Van Sickle
2002-07-25 20:13 ` Christopher Faylor
2002-07-26  2:21   ` Paul Derbyshire
2002-07-26  3:15     ` Christopher Faylor

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