* Re: ls Question @ 2003-03-31 15:15 Demmer, Thomas 2003-03-31 22:48 ` ls Question + bug? Hannu E K Nevalainen (garbage mail) 0 siblings, 1 reply; 55+ messages in thread From: Demmer, Thomas @ 2003-03-31 15:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'svartsjel@gmx.net'; +Cc: 'cygwin@cygwin.com' Do an ls --show-control-chars from ls --help: --show-control-chars show non graphic characters as-is (default unless program is `ls' and output is a terminal) I have alias ls=/bin/ls.exe --show-control-chars in my /etc/profile. Ciao Tom Thomas Demmer Kraft Foods R&D Munich Phone: +49 89 62738-6302 Fax: +49 89 62738-86302 Thought of the Day: A real friend isn't someone you use once and then throw away. A real friend is someone you can use over and over again. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* RE: ls Question + bug? 2003-03-31 15:15 ls Question Demmer, Thomas @ 2003-03-31 22:48 ` Hannu E K Nevalainen (garbage mail) 2003-03-31 23:09 ` Thorsten Kampe 0 siblings, 1 reply; 55+ messages in thread From: Hannu E K Nevalainen (garbage mail) @ 2003-03-31 22:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1609 bytes --] > From: cygwin-owner@cygwin.com [mailto:cygwin-owner@cygwin.com]On Behalf > Of Demmer, Thomas > I have > alias ls=/bin/ls.exe --show-control-chars > > in my /etc/profile. > According to Bash info-pages: Seems to me that it is better to define a shell function... It should be something like: $ ls () { /bin/ls --show-control-chars $@; } $ ls <some files> $ echo >åäöà Ãà $ ls <some files> åäöà Ãà NOTE: Do NOT change "/bin/ls" into just "ls", I believe this creates a hazardous back/loop reference which will eventually hang the computer. A test for loop this is obviously done in the builtin "alias" but not here(?) Question to more knowledgable people: Can the code for alias be reused/converted for shell functions? Before realizing the potenial problem I had it hang my machine. How to do "the hang"... ;-) Windows 98SE: Right klick on desktop -> New -> Shortcut -> Enter this: C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND.COM /E:30720 /c C:\Program\cygwin\cygwin.bat Click "Next" and then "Finish" Now start Bash with the new shortcut and enter the following: 1) $ ls () { ls --show-control-chars $@; } 2) $ ls <long delay> consuming memory... CTRL-C seems to work... 3) $ ls Really soon -> a dead computer. (Powercycling is all that works after that) NOTE: at 2) strace >ls-strace.txt ls works i.e. doesn't hang. My guess: strace doesn't launch the shell function. Attached ls-strace.txt -> $ ls <an empty dir> also at 2) close Bash and your memory is free'd. Cygwin version: Latest almost everything, updated yesterday or so. /Hannu E K Nevalainen, Mariefred, Sweden --END OF MESSAGE-- [-- Attachment #2: ls-strace.txt --] [-- Type: text/plain, Size: 26604 bytes --] ********************************************** Program name: C:\PROGRAM\CYGWIN\BIN\LS.EXE (800159) App version: 1001.8, api: 0.34 DLL version: 1003.22, api: 0.78 DLL build: 2003-03-18 09:20 OS version: Windows 98-4.10 Heap size: 402653184 Date/Time: 2003-03-31 23:41:41 ********************************************** 13624 77828 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x45804D0: !C:=C:\Program\cygwin\bin 8058 85886 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x45804F0: BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4 24632 110518 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x4580510: CLASSPATH=C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\QTJava.zip; 3676 114194 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x4580540: CMDLINE=bash --login -i 13628 127822 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x4580560: COMSPEC=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND.COM 26103 153925 [main] LS 800159 parse_options: tty 1001 10003 163928 [main] LS 800159 parse_options: title 0 13890 177818 [main] LS 800159 parse_options: glob (called func) 16089 193907 [main] LS 800159 parse_options: returning 2926 196833 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x4580588: CYGWIN=tty notitle glob 27120 223953 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x45805C8: DOS=c:\windows\command 25872 249825 [main] LS 800159 getwinenv: can't set native for HOME= since no environ yet 14096 263921 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu, no-keep-rel, no-add-slash) 3889 267810 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu = normalize_win32_path (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu) 4045 271855 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /home/Hannu = conv_to_posix_path (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu) 12060 283915 [main] LS 800159 win_env::add_cache: posix /home/Hannu 2879 286794 [main] LS 800159 win_env::add_cache: native HOME=C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu 7106 293900 [main] LS 800159 posify: env var converted to HOME=/home/Hannu 10043 303943 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x4580610: HOME=/home/Hannu 16870 320813 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x4580758: HOMEDRIVE=C: 7483 328296 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x45805E8: HOMEPATH=\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu 6030 334326 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x4580770: LESSCHARSET=latin1 9593 343919 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x4580788: LM_LICENSE_FILE=C:\Program\ModelSim\license.dat 13882 357801 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x45807C0: MAKE_MODE=unix 26076 383877 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x45807D8: MANPATH=:/usr/ssl/man 6912 390789 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x45807F8: OLDPWD=/home/Hannu 5994 396783 [main] LS 800159 getwinenv: can't set native for PATH= since no environ yet 872 397655 [main] LS 800159 normalize_posix_path: src . 1468 399123 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\z, no-keep-rel, no-add-slash) 680 399803 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\z = normalize_win32_path (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\z) 1077 400880 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /home/Hannu/z = conv_to_posix_path (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\z) 917 401797 [main] LS 800159 cwdstuff::get: posix /home/Hannu/z 740 402537 [main] LS 800159 cwdstuff::get: (/home/Hannu/z) = cwdstuff::get (0x254F7D0, 260, 1, 0), errno 0 782 403319 [main] LS 800159 normalize_posix_path: /home/Hannu/z = normalize_posix_path (.) 651 403970 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_win32_path: conv_to_win32_path (/home/Hannu/z) 786 404756 [main] LS 800159 set_flags: flags: binary (0x2) 658 405414 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_win32_path: src_path /home/Hannu/z, dst C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\z, flags 0xA, rc 0 1117 406531 [main] LS 800159 symlink_info::check: not a symlink 498 407029 [main] LS 800159 symlink_info::check: 0 = symlink.check (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\z, 0x254F490) (0xA) 280 407309 [main] LS 800159 path_conv::check: root_dir(C:\), this->path(C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\z), set_has_acls(0) 566 407875 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (C:\Program\cygwin\usr\local\bin, keep-rel, no-add-slash) 407 408282 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: C:\Program\cygwin\usr\local\bin = normalize_win32_path (C:\Program\cygwin\usr\local\bin) 274 408556 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /usr/local/bin = conv_to_posix_path (C:\Program\cygwin\usr\local\bin) 321 408877 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (C:\Program\cygwin\bin, keep-rel, no-add-slash) 272 409149 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: C:\Program\cygwin\bin = normalize_win32_path (C:\Program\cygwin\bin) 268 409417 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /usr/bin = conv_to_posix_path (C:\Program\cygwin\bin) 268 409685 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (C:\Program\cygwin\bin, keep-rel, no-add-slash) 657 410342 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: C:\Program\cygwin\bin = normalize_win32_path (C:\Program\cygwin\bin) 274 410616 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /usr/bin = conv_to_posix_path (C:\Program\cygwin\bin) 269 410885 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (c:\WINDOWS, keep-rel, no-add-slash) 263 411148 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: c:\WINDOWS = normalize_win32_path (c:\WINDOWS) 265 411413 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /cygdrive/c/WINDOWS = conv_to_posix_path (c:\WINDOWS) 273 411686 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (c:\WINDOWS\COMMAND, keep-rel, no-add-slash) 264 411950 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: c:\WINDOWS\COMMAND = normalize_win32_path (c:\WINDOWS\COMMAND) 271 412221 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /cygdrive/c/WINDOWS/COMMAND = conv_to_posix_path (c:\WINDOWS\COMMAND) 267 412488 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE, keep-rel, no-add-slash) 263 412751 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE = normalize_win32_path (c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE) 268 413019 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/DIVERSE = conv_to_posix_path (c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE) 269 413288 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE\PACK, keep-rel, no-add-slash) 267 413555 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE\PACK = normalize_win32_path (c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE\PACK) 426 413981 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/DIVERSE/PACK = conv_to_posix_path (c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE\PACK) 275 414256 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE\E4, keep-rel, no-add-slash) 267 414523 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE\E4 = normalize_win32_path (c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE\E4) 269 414792 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/DIVERSE/E4 = conv_to_posix_path (c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE\E4) 267 415059 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE\PFE, keep-rel, no-add-slash) 268 415327 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE\PFE = normalize_win32_path (c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE\PFE) 269 415596 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/DIVERSE/PFE = conv_to_posix_path (c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE\PFE) 270 415866 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE\RAR, keep-rel, no-add-slash) 263 416129 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE\RAR = normalize_win32_path (c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE\RAR) 271 416400 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/DIVERSE/RAR = conv_to_posix_path (c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE\RAR) 276 416676 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (c:\PROGRAM\MATLABR12\BIN\WIN32, keep-rel, no-add-slash) 277 416953 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: c:\PROGRAM\MATLABR12\BIN\WIN32 = normalize_win32_path (c:\PROGRAM\MATLABR12\BIN\WIN32) 269 417222 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/MATLABR12/BIN/WIN32 = conv_to_posix_path (c:\PROGRAM\MATLABR12\BIN\WIN32) 294 417516 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (c:\PROGRAM\BC31_DOS\BIN, keep-rel, no-add-slash) 267 417783 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: c:\PROGRAM\BC31_DOS\BIN = normalize_win32_path (c:\PROGRAM\BC31_DOS\BIN) 268 418051 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/BC31_DOS/BIN = conv_to_posix_path (c:\PROGRAM\BC31_DOS\BIN) 268 418319 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (c:\PROGRAM\BC5\BIN, keep-rel, no-add-slash) 269 418588 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: c:\PROGRAM\BC5\BIN = normalize_win32_path (c:\PROGRAM\BC5\BIN) 316 418904 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/BC5/BIN = conv_to_posix_path (c:\PROGRAM\BC5\BIN) 268 419172 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (., keep-rel, no-add-slash) 260 419432 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: . = conv_to_posix_path (.) 264 419696 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (c:\PROGRAM\MODELSIM\WIN32XOEM, keep-rel, no-add-slash) 267 419963 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: c:\PROGRAM\MODELSIM\WIN32XOEM = normalize_win32_path (c:\PROGRAM\MODELSIM\WIN32XOEM) 270 420233 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/MODELSIM/WIN32XOEM = conv_to_posix_path (c:\PROGRAM\MODELSIM\WIN32XOEM) 269 420502 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (c:\PROGRAM\WIN98RK, keep-rel, no-add-slash) 273 420775 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: c:\PROGRAM\WIN98RK = normalize_win32_path (c:\PROGRAM\WIN98RK) 645 421420 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/WIN98RK = conv_to_posix_path (c:\PROGRAM\WIN98RK) 284 421704 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (C:\Program\cygwin\usr\X11R6\bin, keep-rel, no-add-slash) 266 421970 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: C:\Program\cygwin\usr\X11R6\bin = normalize_win32_path (C:\Program\cygwin\usr\X11R6\bin) 273 422243 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /usr/X11R6/bin = conv_to_posix_path (C:\Program\cygwin\usr\X11R6\bin) 271 422514 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\scripts, keep-rel, no-add-slash) 269 422783 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\scripts = normalize_win32_path (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\scripts) 273 423056 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /home/Hannu/scripts = conv_to_posix_path (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\scripts) 270 423326 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\rexx, keep-rel, no-add-slash) 268 423594 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\rexx = normalize_win32_path (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\rexx) 430 424024 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /home/Hannu/rexx = conv_to_posix_path (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\rexx) 274 424298 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\bin, keep-rel, no-add-slash) 265 424563 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\bin = normalize_win32_path (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\bin) 271 424834 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /home/Hannu/bin = conv_to_posix_path (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\bin) 721 425555 [main] LS 800159 win_env::add_cache: posix /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/bin:/cygdrive/c/WINDOWS:/cygdrive/c/WINDOWS/COMMAND:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/DIVERSE:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/DIVERSE/PACK:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/DIVERSE/E4:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/DIVERSE/PFE:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/DIVERSE/RAR:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/MATLABR12/BIN/WIN32:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/BC31_DOS/BIN:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/BC5/BIN:.:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/MODELSIM/WIN32XOEM:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/WIN98RK:/usr/X11R6/bin:/home/Hannu/scripts:/home/Hannu/rexx:/home/Hannu/bin 363 425918 [main] LS 800159 win_env::add_cache: native PATH=C:\Program\cygwin\usr\local\bin;C:\Program\cygwin\bin;C:\Program\cygwin\bin;c:\WINDOWS;c:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE;c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE\PACK;c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE\E4;c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE\PFE;c:\PROGRAM\DIVERSE\RAR;c:\PROGRAM\MATLABR12\BIN\WIN32;c:\PROGRAM\BC31_DOS\BIN;c:\PROGRAM\BC5\BIN;.;c:\PROGRAM\MODELSIM\WIN32XOEM;c:\PROGRAM\WIN98RK;C:\Program\cygwin\usr\X11R6\bin;C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\scripts;C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\rexx;C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\bin 312 426230 [main] LS 800159 posify: env var converted to PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/bin:/cygdrive/c/WINDOWS:/cygdrive/c/WINDOWS/COMMAND:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/DIVERSE:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/DIVERSE/PACK:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/DIVERSE/E4:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/DIVERSE/PFE:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/DIVERSE/RAR:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/MATLABR12/BIN/WIN32:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/BC31_DOS/BIN:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/BC5/BIN:.:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/MODELSIM/WIN32XOEM:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/WIN98RK:/usr/X11R6/bin:/home/Hannu/scripts:/home/Hannu/rexx:/home/Hannu/bin 533 426763 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x45809F8: PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/bin:/cygdrive/c/WINDOWS:/cygdrive/c/WINDOWS/COMMAND:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/DIVERSE:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/DIVERSE/PACK:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/DIVERSE/E4:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/DIVERSE/PFE:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/DIVERSE/RAR:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/MATLABR12/BIN/WIN32:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/BC31_DOS/BIN:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/BC5/BIN:.:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/MODELSIM/WIN32XOEM:/cygdrive/c/PROGRAM/WIN98RK:/usr/X11R6/bin:/home/Hannu/scripts:/home/Hannu/rexx:/home/Hannu/bin 538 427301 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x4580810: PROMPT=$p$g 479 427780 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x4580820: PS1=\[\033]0;\w\007 \033[32m\]\u@\h \[\033[33m\w\033[0m\] $ 481 428261 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x4580868: PWD=/home/Hannu/z 473 428734 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x4580880: QTJAVA=C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\QTJava.zip 528 429262 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x45808A8: RS=C:\re-subst.txt 475 429737 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x45808C0: SHELL= 473 430210 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x45808D0: SHLVL=1 475 430685 [main] LS 800159 getwinenv: can't set native for TEMP= since no environ yet 476 431161 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (d:\TEMP, no-keep-rel, no-add-slash) 259 431420 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: d:\TEMP = normalize_win32_path (d:\TEMP) 400 431820 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /cygdrive/d/TEMP = conv_to_posix_path (d:\TEMP) 2362 434182 [main] LS 800159 win_env::add_cache: posix /cygdrive/d/TEMP 260 434442 [main] LS 800159 win_env::add_cache: native TEMP=d:\TEMP 251 434693 [main] LS 800159 posify: env var converted to TEMP=/cygdrive/d/TEMP 466 435159 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x4581428: TEMP=/cygdrive/d/TEMP 473 435632 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x4580928: TERM=cygwin 481 436113 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x4580938: TEXMF={/usr/share/lilypond/1.6.8,/usr/share/texmf} 484 436597 [main] LS 800159 getwinenv: can't set native for TMP= since no environ yet 480 437077 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: conv_to_posix_path (d:\TEMP, no-keep-rel, no-add-slash) 258 437335 [main] LS 800159 normalize_win32_path: d:\TEMP = normalize_win32_path (d:\TEMP) 265 437600 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_posix_path: /cygdrive/d/TEMP = conv_to_posix_path (d:\TEMP) 690 438290 [main] LS 800159 win_env::add_cache: posix /cygdrive/d/TEMP 252 438542 [main] LS 800159 win_env::add_cache: native TMP=d:\TEMP 291 438833 [main] LS 800159 posify: env var converted to TMP=/cygdrive/d/TEMP 475 439308 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x4581538: TMP=/cygdrive/d/TEMP 518 439826 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x4580970: USER=Hannu 479 440305 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x4580990: WINBOOTDIR=C:\WINDOWS 470 440775 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x45809B0: WINDIR=C:\WINDOWS 469 441244 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x45809C8: X=c:\program\diverse 617 441861 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x4581648: Y=c:\program\bc31_dos\bin 469 442330 [main] LS 800159 environ_init: 0x4581668: _=/usr/bin/strace 261 442591 [main] LS 800159 pinfo_init: pid 800159, pgid 800159 265 442856 [main] LS 800159 dtable::extend: size 32, fds 0x615F03C8 313 443169 [main] LS 800159 normalize_posix_path: src /etc/passwd 261 443430 [main] LS 800159 normalize_posix_path: /etc/passwd = normalize_posix_path (/etc/passwd) 262 443692 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_win32_path: conv_to_win32_path (/etc/passwd) 409 444101 [main] LS 800159 set_flags: flags: binary (0x2) 257 444358 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_win32_path: src_path /etc/passwd, dst C:\Program\cygwin\etc\passwd, flags 0xA, rc 0 731 445089 [main] LS 800159 symlink_info::check: not a symlink 272 445361 [main] LS 800159 symlink_info::check: 0 = symlink.check (C:\Program\cygwin\etc\passwd, 0x254F6D0) (0xA) 269 445630 [main] LS 800159 path_conv::check: root_dir(C:\), this->path(C:\Program\cygwin\etc\passwd), set_has_acls(0) 379 446009 [main] LS 800159 etc::test_file_change: FindFirstFile succeeded 272 446281 [main] LS 800159 etc::test_file_change: fn[1] C:\Program\cygwin\etc\passwd res 1 255 446536 [main] LS 800159 etc::init: fn[1] C:\Program\cygwin\etc\passwd, curr_ix 1 274 446810 [main] LS 800159 pwdgrp::load: /etc/passwd 1029 447839 [main] LS 800159 pwdgrp::load: /etc/passwd curr_lines 1 257 448096 [main] LS 800159 pwdgrp::load: /etc/passwd load succeeded 262 448358 [main] LS 800159 cygheap_user::ontherange: what 2, pw 0x45816B0 265 448623 [main] LS 800159 cygheap_user::ontherange: HOME is already in the environment /home/Hannu 1409 450032 [main] LS 800159 sigproc_init: process/signal handling enabled(1001) 625 450657 [sig] LS 800159 wait_sig: sigcatch_nonmain 0xEC, sigcatch_main 0xF0 403 451060 [sig] LS 800159 wait_sig: Ready. dwProcessid -800159 -719 450341 [main] LS 800159 _cygwin_istext_for_stdio: _cygwin_istext_for_stdio (0) 1365 451706 [main] LS 800159 _cygwin_istext_for_stdio: _cifs: fd not open 305 452011 [main] LS 800159 _cygwin_istext_for_stdio: _cygwin_istext_for_stdio (1) 260 452271 [main] LS 800159 _cygwin_istext_for_stdio: _cifs: fd not open 265 452536 [main] LS 800159 _cygwin_istext_for_stdio: _cygwin_istext_for_stdio (2) 261 452797 [main] LS 800159 _cygwin_istext_for_stdio: _cifs: fd not open 53927 506724 [main] LS 800159 tty_list::allocate_tty: console 5AC already associated with tty0 582 507306 [main] LS 800159 build_argv: argv[0] = 'ls' 253 507559 [main] LS 800159 build_argv: argc 1 285 507844 [main] LS 800159 normalize_posix_path: src /dev/piper 264 508108 [main] LS 800159 normalize_posix_path: /dev/piper = normalize_posix_path (/dev/piper) 267 508375 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_win32_path: conv_to_win32_path (/dev/piper) 272 508647 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_win32_path: src_path /dev/piper, dst \dev\piper, flags 0x2, rc 0 397 509044 [main] LS 800159 dtable::build_fhandler: fd 0, fh 0x615F0558 280 509324 [main] LS 800159 fhandler_base::set_flags: flags 0x10002, supplied_bin 0x0 264 509588 [main] LS 800159 fhandler_base::set_flags: O_TEXT/O_BINARY set in flags 0x10000 264 509852 [main] LS 800159 fhandler_base::set_flags: filemode set to binary 258 510110 [main] LS 800159 fhandler_base::init: created new fhandler_base for handle 0xDC, bin 1 267 510377 [main] LS 800159 dtable::init_std_file_from_handle: fd 0, handle 0xDC 1296 511673 [main] LS 800159 handle_to_fn: NtQueryObject failed 357 512030 [main] LS 800159 normalize_posix_path: src some disk file 265 512295 [main] LS 800159 cwdstuff::get: posix /home/Hannu/z 259 512554 [main] LS 800159 cwdstuff::get: (/home/Hannu/z) = cwdstuff::get (0x254F640, 260, 1, 0), errno 0 268 512822 [main] LS 800159 normalize_posix_path: /home/Hannu/z/some disk file = normalize_posix_path (some disk file) 264 513086 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_win32_path: conv_to_win32_path (/home/Hannu/z/some disk file) 347 513433 [main] LS 800159 set_flags: flags: binary (0x2) 262 513695 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_win32_path: src_path /home/Hannu/z/some disk file, dst C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\z\some disk file, flags 0xA, rc 0 646 514341 [main] LS 800159 symlink_info::check: GetFileAttributes (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\z\some disk file) failed 284 514625 [main] LS 800159 geterrno_from_win_error: windows error 2 == errno 2 345 514970 [main] LS 800159 symlink_info::check: GetFileAttributes (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\z\some disk file.lnk) failed 280 515250 [main] LS 800159 geterrno_from_win_error: windows error 2 == errno 2 259 515509 [main] LS 800159 symlink_info::check: 0 = symlink.check (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\z\some disk file, 0x254F300) (0xA) 316 515825 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_win32_path: conv_to_win32_path (/home/Hannu/z) 280 516105 [main] LS 800159 set_flags: flags: binary (0x2) 264 516369 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_win32_path: src_path /home/Hannu/z, dst C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\z, flags 0xA, rc 0 359 516728 [main] LS 800159 symlink_info::check: not a symlink 274 517002 [main] LS 800159 symlink_info::check: 0 = symlink.check (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\z, 0x254F300) (0xA) 272 517274 [main] LS 800159 path_conv::check: root_dir(C:\), this->path(C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\z\some disk file), set_has_acls(0) 321 517595 [main] LS 800159 dtable::build_fhandler: fd 1, fh 0x615F0678 274 517869 [main] LS 800159 fhandler_base::set_flags: flags 0x10002, supplied_bin 0x0 262 518131 [main] LS 800159 fhandler_base::set_flags: O_TEXT/O_BINARY set in flags 0x10000 259 518390 [main] LS 800159 fhandler_base::set_flags: filemode set to binary 257 518647 [main] LS 800159 fhandler_base::init: created new fhandler_base for handle 0x158, bin 1 267 518914 [main] LS 800159 dtable::init_std_file_from_handle: fd 1, handle 0x158 277 519191 [main] LS 800159 normalize_posix_path: src /dev/pipew 261 519452 [main] LS 800159 normalize_posix_path: /dev/pipew = normalize_posix_path (/dev/pipew) 261 519713 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_win32_path: conv_to_win32_path (/dev/pipew) 272 519985 [main] LS 800159 mount_info::conv_to_win32_path: src_path /dev/pipew, dst \dev\pipew, flags 0x2, rc 0 287 520272 [main] LS 800159 dtable::build_fhandler: fd 2, fh 0x615F0748 272 520544 [main] LS 800159 fhandler_base::set_flags: flags 0x10002, supplied_bin 0x0 376 520920 [main] LS 800159 fhandler_base::set_flags: O_TEXT/O_BINARY set in flags 0x10000 267 521187 [main] LS 800159 fhandler_base::set_flags: filemode set to binary 260 521447 [main] LS 800159 fhandler_base::init: created new fhandler_base for handle 0x128, bin 1 277 521724 [main] LS 800159 dtable::init_std_file_from_handle: fd 2, handle 0x128 325 522049 [main] ls 800159 dll_crt0_1: user_data->main 0x40170C 262 522311 [main] ls 800159 wait_for_sigthread: wait_sig_inited 0x6C 1215 523526 [main] ls 800159 isatty: 0 = isatty (1) 403 523929 [main] ls 800159 ioctl: fd 1, cmd 5401 635 524564 [main] ls 800159 fhandler_base::ioctl: ioctl (5401, 0x254FCE8) 267 524831 [main] ls 800159 ioctl: returning -1 1900 526731 [main] ls 800159 normalize_posix_path: src . 265 526996 [main] ls 800159 cwdstuff::get: posix /home/Hannu/z 261 527257 [main] ls 800159 cwdstuff::get: (/home/Hannu/z) = cwdstuff::get (0x254F7B0, 260, 1, 0), errno 0 269 527526 [main] ls 800159 normalize_posix_path: /home/Hannu/z = normalize_posix_path (.) 265 527791 [main] ls 800159 mount_info::conv_to_win32_path: conv_to_win32_path (/home/Hannu/z) 270 528061 [main] ls 800159 set_flags: flags: binary (0x2) 259 528320 [main] ls 800159 mount_info::conv_to_win32_path: src_path /home/Hannu/z, dst C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\z, flags 0xA, rc 0 626 528946 [main] ls 800159 symlink_info::check: not a symlink 284 529230 [main] ls 800159 symlink_info::check: 0 = symlink.check (C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\z, 0x254F470) (0xA) 7869 537099 [main] ls 800159 path_conv::check: root_dir(C:\), this->path(C:\Program\cygwin\home\Hannu\z), set_has_acls(0) 868 537967 [main] ls 800159 dtable::build_fhandler: fd -1, fh 0x615F0820 3978 541945 [main] ls 800159 fhandler_disk_file::opendir: 0x4583F28 = opendir (/home/Hannu/z) 819 542764 [main] ls 800159 fhandler_disk_file::readdir: 0x4583F2C = readdir (0x4583F28) (.) 782 543546 [main] ls 800159 fhandler_disk_file::readdir: 0x4583F2C = readdir (0x4583F28) (..) 917 544463 [main] ls 800159 fhandler_disk_file::readdir: 0x0 = readdir (0x4583F28) 683 545146 [main] ls 800159 fhandler_disk_file::closedir: 0 = closedir (0x4583F28) 3735 548881 [main] ls 800159 closedir: 0 = closedir (0x4583F28) 829 549710 [main] ls 800159 do_exit: do_exit (0) 523 550233 [main] ls 800159 void: 0x0 = signal (20, 0x1) 268 550501 [main] ls 800159 void: 0x0 = signal (1, 0x1) 384 550885 [main] ls 800159 void: 0x0 = signal (2, 0x1) 270 551155 [main] ls 800159 void: 0x0 = signal (3, 0x1) 263 551418 [main] ls 800159 fhandler_base::close: closing '/dev/piper' handle 0xDC 286 551704 [main] ls 800159 fhandler_base::close: closing '/home/Hannu/z/some disk file' handle 0x158 379 552083 [main] ls 800159 fhandler_base::close: closing '/dev/pipew' handle 0x128 293 552376 [main] ls 800159 sigproc_terminate: entering 263 552639 [main] ls 800159 proc_terminate: nchildren 0, nzombies 0 261 552900 [main] ls 800159 proc_terminate: leaving 270 553170 [main] ls 800159 do_exit: 800159 == sid 800159, send SIGHUP to children 483 553653 [main] ls 800159 __to_clock_t: dwHighDateTime 0, dwLowDateTime 0 261 553914 [main] ls 800159 __to_clock_t: total 00000000 00000000 263 554177 [main] ls 800159 __to_clock_t: dwHighDateTime 0, dwLowDateTime 0 259 554436 [main] ls 800159 __to_clock_t: total 00000000 00000000 25143 579579 [main] ls 800159 _pinfo::exit: Calling ExitProcess 0 [-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 214 bytes --] -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: ls Question + bug? 2003-03-31 22:48 ` ls Question + bug? Hannu E K Nevalainen (garbage mail) @ 2003-03-31 23:09 ` Thorsten Kampe 2003-04-01 9:31 ` Hannu E K Nevalainen (garbage mail) 0 siblings, 1 reply; 55+ messages in thread From: Thorsten Kampe @ 2003-03-31 23:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin * Hannu E K Nevalainen (garbage mail) (03-04-01 00:05 +0100) >> From: cygwin-owner@cygwin.com [mailto:cygwin-owner@cygwin.com]On Behalf >> Of Demmer, Thomas >> I have >> alias ls=/bin/ls.exe --show-control-chars >> >> in my /etc/profile. >> > According to Bash info-pages: Seems to me that it is better to define a > shell function... > > It should be something like: > [...] > > NOTE: Do NOT change "/bin/ls" into just "ls", "command ls" > I believe this creates a hazardous back/loop reference which will eventually > hang the computer. > [...] > Before realizing the potenial problem I had it hang my machine. > > How to do "the hang"... ;-) > > Windows 98SE: > Right klick on desktop -> New -> Shortcut -> > Enter this: > C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND.COM /E:30720 /c C:\Program\cygwin\cygwin.bat > Click "Next" and then "Finish" > Now start Bash with the new shortcut and enter the following: > [...] > <long delay> consuming memory... > CTRL-C seems to work... > 3) $ ls > Really soon -> a dead computer. (Powercycling is all that works after that) Your computer cannot be more dead than Windows 98 already is. Using an Operating System would you give something like "maximum recursion limit exceeded". Thorsten -- Content-Type: text/explicit; charset=ISO-8859-666 (Parental Advisory) Content-Transfer-Warning: message contains innuendos not suited for children under the age of 18 -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* RE: ls Question + bug? 2003-03-31 23:09 ` Thorsten Kampe @ 2003-04-01 9:31 ` Hannu E K Nevalainen (garbage mail) 2003-04-01 14:49 ` Thorsten Kampe 0 siblings, 1 reply; 55+ messages in thread From: Hannu E K Nevalainen (garbage mail) @ 2003-04-01 9:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Thorsten Kampe, cygwin > From: cygwin-owner@cygwin.com [mailto:cygwin-owner@cygwin.com]On Behalf > Of Thorsten Kampe > > NOTE: Do NOT change "/bin/ls" into just "ls", > > "command ls" Ahh... there you are ;-) --8<-- > > Really soon -> a dead computer. (Powercycling is all that works > after that) > > Your computer cannot be more dead than Windows 98 already is. Using an > Operating System would you give something like "maximum recursion > limit exceeded". > > Thorsten ;-) as I see it any MS generated "OS" has strange limitations/obscurities, the above is an obvious one in W98. Remember where it all began; "Quick And Dirty Dos" -> very few changes -> "MS-DOS 1.0". IMO the sense of it is still there, even in NT. Can't tell about XP - but I would be surprised if the changes were that many. I've been running _well known_ applications on NT that misbehaved every day. Sad but true, the availability of software is too good. An old machine as it is - sets limits that I do not want to step beyond... "That's why the lady is a tramp" ;-) . /Hannu E K Nevalainen, Mariefred, Sweden --END OF MESSAGE-- -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: ls Question + bug? 2003-04-01 9:31 ` Hannu E K Nevalainen (garbage mail) @ 2003-04-01 14:49 ` Thorsten Kampe 2003-04-01 15:10 ` Randall R Schulz ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Thorsten Kampe @ 2003-04-01 14:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin * Hannu E K Nevalainen (garbage mail) (03-04-01 11:30 +0100) >> From: cygwin-owner@cygwin.com [mailto:cygwin-owner@cygwin.com]On Behalf >> Of Thorsten Kampe >>> Really soon -> a dead computer. (Powercycling is all that works >> after that) >> >> Your computer cannot be more dead than Windows 98 already is. Using an >> Operating System would you give something like "maximum recursion >> limit exceeded". > > ;-) as I see it any MS generated "OS" has strange limitations/obscurities, > the above is an obvious one in W98. > Remember where it all began; "Quick And Dirty Dos" -> very few changes -> > "MS-DOS 1.0". NT 4, 5 ("2000"), 5.1 ("XP") and now 5.2 ("Server 2003") have a stable kernel that doesn't have its roots in DOS. > IMO the sense of it is still there, even in NT. Can't tell about XP - but I > would be surprised if the changes were that many. XP is the first rocksolid Windows OS. > I've been running _well known_ applications on NT that misbehaved every day. But they didn't normally crush the whole system. Thorsten -- Content-Type: text/explicit; charset=ISO-8859-666 (Parental Advisory) Content-Transfer-Warning: message contains innuendos not suited for children under the age of 18 -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: ls Question + bug? 2003-04-01 14:49 ` Thorsten Kampe @ 2003-04-01 15:10 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 15:46 ` Peter Davis 2003-04-01 15:52 ` Thorsten Kampe 2003-04-01 15:14 ` Igor Pechtchanski [not found] ` <Pine.GSO.4.44.0304011012400.21921-100000@slinky.cs.nyu.edu > 2 siblings, 2 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-01 15:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Thorsten, At 06:42 2003-04-01, you wrote: >* Hannu E K Nevalainen (garbage mail) (03-04-01 11:30 +0100) > >> > > > IMO the sense of it is still there, even in NT. Can't tell about XP - but I > > would be surprised if the changes were that many. > >XP is the first rocksolid Windows OS. Hardly. NT 4 and 2000 have always been perfectly stable and reliable for me, running for days and weeks on end without trouble. They have additional (subjective) benefit of not having garish, cartoonish GUIs, though 2K shows some tendencies. Fortunately, most of the silly stuff can be turned off. Marginal drivers and flaky hardware are not Microsoft's fault, though MS may not make it easy to produce a good driver, I don't really know how hard it is. > > I've been running _well known_ applications on NT that misbehaved > every day. "Well known" does not imply "high quality." Nor does the presence of a malfunction in itself point specifically to application problems, OS problems, driver problems or hardware problems. >But they didn't normally crush the whole system. "Crush?" >Thorsten Randall Schulz -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: ls Question + bug? 2003-04-01 15:10 ` Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-01 15:46 ` Peter Davis 2003-04-01 17:08 ` Thorsten Kampe 2003-04-01 15:52 ` Thorsten Kampe 1 sibling, 1 reply; 55+ messages in thread From: Peter Davis @ 2003-04-01 15:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 07:10:07AM -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote: > Thorsten, > > At 06:42 2003-04-01, you wrote: > >* Hannu E K Nevalainen (garbage mail) (03-04-01 11:30 +0100) > >>> > > > >> IMO the sense of it is still there, even in NT. Can't tell about XP - > >but I > >> would be surprised if the changes were that many. > > > >XP is the first rocksolid Windows OS. > > Hardly. > > NT 4 and 2000 have always been perfectly stable and reliable for me, > running for days and weeks on end without trouble. They have additional > (subjective) benefit of not having garish, cartoonish GUIs, though 2K > shows some tendencies. Fortunately, most of the silly stuff can be turned > off. NT4, 2000 and XP are all moderately stable, but none of them is what I would call "rock solid". I've only had XP for less than a month, but I've hung the OS several times, and hung Explorer, which is really interesting. It's certainly possible to do this with NT and 2K also. I don't consider any of these to be nearly as robust as *any* of the *nix systems I'm familiar with, including IRIX, Solaris, and DEC Ultrix. -- -------- Peter Davis Funny stuff at http://www.pfdstudio.com The artwork formerly shown as prints List of resources for children's writers and illustrators at: http://www.pfdstudio.com/cwrl.html -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: ls Question + bug? 2003-04-01 15:46 ` Peter Davis @ 2003-04-01 17:08 ` Thorsten Kampe 0 siblings, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Thorsten Kampe @ 2003-04-01 17:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin * Peter Davis (03-04-01 17:46 +0100) >>> XP is the first rocksolid Windows OS. >> >> Hardly. >> >> NT 4 and 2000 have always been perfectly stable and reliable for me, >> running for days and weeks on end without trouble. They have additional >> (subjective) benefit of not having garish, cartoonish GUIs, though 2K >> shows some tendencies. Fortunately, most of the silly stuff can be turned >> off. > > NT4, 2000 and XP are all moderately stable, but none of them is what I > would call "rock solid". Me, too. I'd only call XP "rock solid". > I've only had XP for less than a month, but I've hung the OS several times, > and hung Explorer, which is really interesting. I've been using XP since September 2001. I'm not using Explorer[1], just SpeedCommander. If the Explorer hangs, I kill it and restart it via Task Manager - doesn't hurt the OS. > It's certainly possible to do this with NT and 2K also. Easily. Okay, let's kill this thread. It's becomming quite offtopic... Thorsten [1] Okay it's the shell, but not for specific things -- Content-Type: text/explicit; charset=ISO-8859-666 (Parental Advisory) Content-Transfer-Warning: message contains innuendos not suited for children under the age of 18 -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: ls Question + bug? 2003-04-01 15:10 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 15:46 ` Peter Davis @ 2003-04-01 15:52 ` Thorsten Kampe 1 sibling, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Thorsten Kampe @ 2003-04-01 15:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin * Randall R Schulz (03-04-01 17:10 +0100) > At 06:42 2003-04-01, you wrote: >>* Hannu E K Nevalainen (garbage mail) (03-04-01 11:30 +0100) >>>> >> >>> IMO the sense of it is still there, even in NT. Can't tell about XP - but I >>> would be surprised if the changes were that many. >> >> XP is the first rocksolid Windows OS. > > Hardly. > > NT 4 and 2000 have always been perfectly stable and reliable for me, > running for days and weeks on end without trouble. For me too. But I also had "issues" where for example an NT server Kernel bluescreened - and *ate its whole C-Drive*. I've seen my NetWare server complaining about "duplicate MAC addresses"[1] - *while my NT servers where already silently rebooting*. 2000 was better but premature. >>> I've been running _well known_ applications on NT that misbehaved >> every day. >>> >> But they didn't normally crush the whole system. > > "Crush?" "Bring the 'system' (OS and all other running applications) down." Thorsten [1] Okay, my fault, but nonetheless -- Content-Type: text/explicit; charset=ISO-8859-666 (Parental Advisory) Content-Transfer-Warning: message contains innuendos not suited for children under the age of 18 -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: ls Question + bug? 2003-04-01 14:49 ` Thorsten Kampe 2003-04-01 15:10 ` Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-01 15:14 ` Igor Pechtchanski [not found] ` <Pine.GSO.4.44.0304011012400.21921-100000@slinky.cs.nyu.edu > 2 siblings, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Igor Pechtchanski @ 2003-04-01 15:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Thorsten Kampe; +Cc: cygwin On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Thorsten Kampe wrote: > * Hannu E K Nevalainen (garbage mail) (03-04-01 11:30 +0100) > >> From: cygwin-owner@cygwin.com [mailto:cygwin-owner@cygwin.com]On Behalf Of Thorsten Kampe > >>> Really soon -> a dead computer. (Powercycling is all that works after that) > >> > >> Your computer cannot be more dead than Windows 98 already is. Using an > >> Operating System would you give something like "maximum recursion > >> limit exceeded". > > > > ;-) as I see it any MS generated "OS" has strange limitations/obscurities, > > the above is an obvious one in W98. > > Remember where it all began; "Quick And Dirty Dos" -> very few changes -> > > "MS-DOS 1.0". > > NT 4, 5 ("2000"), 5.1 ("XP") and now 5.2 ("Server 2003") have a stable > kernel that doesn't have its roots in DOS. > > > IMO the sense of it is still there, even in NT. Can't tell about XP - but I > > would be surprised if the changes were that many. > > XP is the first rocksolid Windows OS. > [snip] > Thorsten ... with completely unrealistic licensing (see the last paragraph of <http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#office>). Igor -- http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/ |\ _,,,---,,_ pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ igor@watson.ibm.com |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Igor Pechtchanski '---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-. Meow! Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty. -- Leto II -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0304011012400.21921-100000@slinky.cs.nyu.edu >]
* Big Brother is Real [not found] ` <Pine.GSO.4.44.0304011012400.21921-100000@slinky.cs.nyu.edu > @ 2003-04-01 15:29 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 15:32 ` Igor Pechtchanski ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-01 15:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin At 07:14 2003-04-01, you wrote: >On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Thorsten Kampe wrote: > > > ... > > > > XP is the first rocksolid Windows OS. > > [snip] > > Thorsten > >... with completely unrealistic licensing (see the last paragraph of ><http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#office>). OH. MY. GOD. I installed SP3 on my Win2K. Ignorance is NOT bliss. I guess it really is time to move to Linux. > Igor Randall Schulz -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 15:29 ` Big Brother is Real Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-01 15:32 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-01 16:09 ` Martin Gainty 2003-04-01 16:13 ` Thorsten Kampe 2 siblings, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Igor Pechtchanski @ 2003-04-01 15:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Randall R Schulz; +Cc: cygwin On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Randall R Schulz wrote: > At 07:14 2003-04-01, you wrote: > >On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Thorsten Kampe wrote: > > > > > ... > > > > > > XP is the first rocksolid Windows OS. > > > [snip] > > > Thorsten > > > >... with completely unrealistic licensing (see the last paragraph of > ><http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#office>). > > OH. MY. GOD. > > I installed SP3 on my Win2K. Ignorance is NOT bliss. > > I guess it really is time to move to Linux. > > > Igor > > Randall Schulz Yeah, scary, isn't it? That's why I'm still on Win2k SP2 (crack away!). Igor P.S. Read the whole document, BTW - very educational... ;-) -- http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/ |\ _,,,---,,_ pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ igor@watson.ibm.com |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Igor Pechtchanski '---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-. Meow! Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty. -- Leto II -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 15:29 ` Big Brother is Real Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 15:32 ` Igor Pechtchanski @ 2003-04-01 16:09 ` Martin Gainty 2003-04-01 16:21 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 16:13 ` Thorsten Kampe 2 siblings, 1 reply; 55+ messages in thread From: Martin Gainty @ 2003-04-01 16:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin, Randall R Schulz if XP is such a good OS why did they strip out the JVM? Some of us prefer writing component based Java over heavy and slow monolithic Visual Basic apps. I would purchase XP except I want to Manage my registry instead of Microsoft 'Nuf Said Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randall R Schulz" <rrschulz@cris.com> To: <cygwin@cygwin.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 8:29 AM Subject: Big Brother is Real > At 07:14 2003-04-01, you wrote: > >On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Thorsten Kampe wrote: > > > > > ... > > > > > > XP is the first rocksolid Windows OS. > > > [snip] > > > Thorsten > > > >... with completely unrealistic licensing (see the last paragraph of > ><http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#office>). > > > OH. MY. GOD. > > I installed SP3 on my Win2K. Ignorance is NOT bliss. > > I guess it really is time to move to Linux. > > > > Igor > > > Randall Schulz > > > -- > Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple > Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html > Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html > FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ > > -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 16:09 ` Martin Gainty @ 2003-04-01 16:21 ` Randall R Schulz 0 siblings, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-01 16:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Martin, I'm not sure I get your drift. I do mostly Java myself, but on every system except MacOS one must install the Java SDK or runtime separately. I doubt Sun likes that state of affairs and as a Java developer, neither do I, but it's how things are right now. Microsoft dispensed with Java because it's in a legal and market battle with Sun. The JVM it was shipping was horridly out-of-date anyway and not useful for serious Java application developers. Anyway, in this thread we're talking about licensing terms and privacy, not OS quality. Randall Schulz At 07:38 2003-04-01, you wrote: >If XP is such a good OS why did they strip out the JVM? Some of us >prefer writing component based Java over heavy and slow monolithic >Visual Basic apps. I would purchase XP except I want to Manage my >registry instead of Microsoft. > >'Nuf Said. > >Martin > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Randall R Schulz" <rrschulz@cris.com> >To: <cygwin@cygwin.com> >Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 8:29 AM >Subject: Big Brother is Real > > > > At 07:14 2003-04-01, you wrote: > > >On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Thorsten Kampe wrote: > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > XP is the first rocksolid Windows OS. > > > > [snip] > > > > Thorsten > > > > > >... with completely unrealistic licensing (see the last paragraph of > > ><http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#office>). > > > > > > OH. MY. GOD. > > > > I installed SP3 on my Win2K. Ignorance is NOT bliss. > > > > I guess it really is time to move to Linux. > > > > > > > Igor > > > > > > Randall Schulz -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 15:29 ` Big Brother is Real Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 15:32 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-01 16:09 ` Martin Gainty @ 2003-04-01 16:13 ` Thorsten Kampe 2003-04-01 16:24 ` Randall R Schulz 2 siblings, 1 reply; 55+ messages in thread From: Thorsten Kampe @ 2003-04-01 16:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin * Randall R Schulz (03-04-01 17:29 +0100) > At 07:14 2003-04-01, you wrote: >> On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Thorsten Kampe wrote: >>> XP is the first rocksolid Windows OS. >> >> ... with completely unrealistic licensing (see the last paragraph of >> <http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#office>). > > OH. MY. GOD. > > I installed SP3 on my Win2K. Ignorance is NOT bliss. > > I guess it really is time to move to Linux. You won't. You would have to use Wine to get Cygwin running, and that is n-o-t s-u-p-p-o-r-t-e-d. Thorsten -- Content-Type: text/explicit; charset=ISO-8859-666 (Parental Advisory) Content-Transfer-Warning: message contains innuendos not suited for children under the age of 18 -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 16:13 ` Thorsten Kampe @ 2003-04-01 16:24 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 16:38 ` Christopher Faylor ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-01 16:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Thorsten, At 07:50 2003-04-01, you wrote: >* Randall R Schulz (03-04-01 17:29 +0100) > > At 07:14 2003-04-01, you wrote: > >> On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Thorsten Kampe wrote: > >>> XP is the first rocksolid Windows OS. > >> > >> ... with completely unrealistic licensing (see the last paragraph of > >> <http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#office>). > > > > OH. MY. GOD. > > > > I installed SP3 on my Win2K. Ignorance is NOT bliss. > > > > I guess it really is time to move to Linux. > >You won't. You would have to use Wine to get Cygwin running, and that >is n-o-t s-u-p-p-o-r-t-e-d. I won't what? What are you saying? If I move to Linux (or Solaris or MacOS X or FreeBSD, etc.), Cygwin will become irrelevant for me. You're an odd bird, Thorsten. >Thorsten Randall Schulz -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 16:24 ` Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-01 16:38 ` Christopher Faylor 2003-04-01 17:05 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 17:14 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 17:03 ` Thorsten Kampe 2003-04-01 17:56 ` günter strubinsky 2 siblings, 2 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Christopher Faylor @ 2003-04-01 16:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 08:24:15AM -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote: >Thorsten, > >At 07:50 2003-04-01, you wrote: >>* Randall R Schulz (03-04-01 17:29 +0100) >>> At 07:14 2003-04-01, you wrote: >>>> On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Thorsten Kampe wrote: >>>>> XP is the first rocksolid Windows OS. >>>> >>>> ... with completely unrealistic licensing (see the last paragraph of >>>> <http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#office>). >>> >>> OH. MY. GOD. >>> >>> I installed SP3 on my Win2K. Ignorance is NOT bliss. >>> >>> I guess it really is time to move to Linux. >> >>You won't. You would have to use Wine to get Cygwin running, and that >>is n-o-t s-u-p-p-o-r-t-e-d. > >I won't what? What are you saying? If I move to Linux (or Solaris or >MacOS X or FreeBSD, etc.), Cygwin will become irrelevant for me. I don't recall giving you my permission to move to Linux, Randall. You're too valuable to the cygwin community for me to allow this move. Sorry. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 16:38 ` Christopher Faylor @ 2003-04-01 17:05 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 17:19 ` Christopher Faylor 2003-04-01 17:21 ` Corinna Vinschen 2003-04-01 17:14 ` Randall R Schulz 1 sibling, 2 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-01 17:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Herr Doktor Faylor, At 08:38 2003-04-01, you wrote: >On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 08:24:15AM -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote: > >Thorsten, > > > >At 07:50 2003-04-01, you wrote: > >>* Randall R Schulz (03-04-01 17:29 +0100) > >>> At 07:14 2003-04-01, you wrote: > >>>> On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Thorsten Kampe wrote: > >>>>> XP is the first rocksolid Windows OS. > >>>> > >>>> ... with completely unrealistic licensing (see the last paragraph of > >>>> <http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#office>). > >>> > >>> OH. MY. GOD. > >>> > >>> I installed SP3 on my Win2K. Ignorance is NOT bliss. > >>> > >>> I guess it really is time to move to Linux. > >> > >>You won't. You would have to use Wine to get Cygwin running, and that > >>is n-o-t s-u-p-p-o-r-t-e-d. > > > >I won't what? What are you saying? If I move to Linux (or Solaris or > >MacOS X or FreeBSD, etc.), Cygwin will become irrelevant for me. > >I don't recall giving you my permission to move to Linux, Randall. >You're too valuable to the cygwin community for me to allow this move. > >Sorry. Yes, master. How shall I punish myself? >cgf Randall Roy (heh!) Schulz -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 17:05 ` Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-01 17:19 ` Christopher Faylor 2003-04-01 17:21 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-01 17:39 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 17:21 ` Corinna Vinschen 1 sibling, 2 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Christopher Faylor @ 2003-04-01 17:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 09:05:51AM -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote: >At 08:38 2003-04-01, you wrote: >>I don't recall giving you my permission to move to Linux, Randall. >>You're too valuable to the cygwin community for me to allow this move. >> >>Sorry. > >Yes, master. How shall I punish myself? Just monitor the list for the next GPL discussion and try to explain the GPL to someone who thinks they're being unfairly singled out. That should do it. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 17:19 ` Christopher Faylor @ 2003-04-01 17:21 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-01 17:39 ` Randall R Schulz 1 sibling, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Igor Pechtchanski @ 2003-04-01 17:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Christopher Faylor wrote: > On Tue, Apr 01, 2003@09:05:51AM -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote: > >At 08:38 2003-04-01, you wrote: > >>I don't recall giving you my permission to move to Linux, Randall. > >>You're too valuable to the cygwin community for me to allow this move. > >> > >>Sorry. > > > >Yes, master. How shall I punish myself? > > Just monitor the list for the next GPL discussion and try to > explain the GPL to someone who thinks they're being unfairly > singled out. That should do it. > > cgf Ouch! Igor P.S. OTOH, he'll actuallly *deserve* that gold star then... :-) -- http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/ |\ _,,,---,,_ pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ igor@watson.ibm.com |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Igor Pechtchanski '---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-. Meow! Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty. -- Leto II -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 17:19 ` Christopher Faylor 2003-04-01 17:21 ` Igor Pechtchanski @ 2003-04-01 17:39 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 18:25 ` Christopher Faylor 1 sibling, 1 reply; 55+ messages in thread From: Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-01 17:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Chris, At 09:19 2003-04-01, you wrote: >On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 09:05:51AM -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote: > >At 08:38 2003-04-01, you wrote: > >>I don't recall giving you my permission to move to Linux, Randall. > >>You're too valuable to the cygwin community for me to allow this move. > >> > >>Sorry. > > > >Yes, master. How shall I punish myself? > >Just monitor the list for the next GPL discussion and try to >explain the GPL to someone who thinks they're being unfairly >singled out. That should do it. OK, but I'm going to assume the operative word in this prescription for penance is "try." Obligatory disclaimer: I ANAL. You? >cgf RRS -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 17:39 ` Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-01 18:25 ` Christopher Faylor 0 siblings, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Christopher Faylor @ 2003-04-01 18:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 09:40:03AM -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote: >Chris, > >At 09:19 2003-04-01, you wrote: >>On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 09:05:51AM -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote: >>>At 08:38 2003-04-01, you wrote: >>>>I don't recall giving you my permission to move to Linux, Randall. >>>>You're too valuable to the cygwin community for me to allow this move. >>>> >>>>Sorry. >>> >>>Yes, master. How shall I punish myself? >> >>Just monitor the list for the next GPL discussion and try to >>explain the GPL to someone who thinks they're being unfairly >>singled out. That should do it. > >OK, but I'm going to assume the operative word in this prescription for >penance is "try." > >Obligatory disclaimer: I ANAL. You? Nanananana. I'm not lissssttttennnning! cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 17:05 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 17:19 ` Christopher Faylor @ 2003-04-01 17:21 ` Corinna Vinschen 2003-04-01 17:31 ` Igor Pechtchanski 1 sibling, 1 reply; 55+ messages in thread From: Corinna Vinschen @ 2003-04-01 17:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 09:05:51AM -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote: > At 08:38 2003-04-01, you wrote: > >I don't recall giving you my permission to move to Linux, Randall. > >You're too valuable to the cygwin community for me to allow this move. > > > >Sorry. > > Yes, master. How shall I punish myself? You didn't read your discworld careful enough. It's spelled "Yeth, marthter" Corinna (which has still no Igor from Uberwald) -- Corinna Vinschen Please, send mails regarding Cygwin to Cygwin Developer mailto:cygwin@cygwin.com Red Hat, Inc. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 17:21 ` Corinna Vinschen @ 2003-04-01 17:31 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-01 18:10 ` Corinna Vinschen 2003-04-01 18:12 ` pd 0 siblings, 2 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Igor Pechtchanski @ 2003-04-01 17:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Corinna Vinschen wrote: > On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 09:05:51AM -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote: > > At 08:38 2003-04-01, you wrote: > > >I don't recall giving you my permission to move to Linux, Randall. > > >You're too valuable to the cygwin community for me to allow this move. > > > > > >Sorry. > > > > Yes, master. How shall I punish myself? > > You didn't read your discworld careful enough. It's spelled > > "Yeth, marthter" > > Corinna > (which has still no Igor from Uberwald) Corinna, I'll let you know when I develop a lisp and a hump. Igor (not *that* one, yet) -- http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/ |\ _,,,---,,_ pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ igor@watson.ibm.com |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Igor Pechtchanski '---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-. Meow! Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty. -- Leto II -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 17:31 ` Igor Pechtchanski @ 2003-04-01 18:10 ` Corinna Vinschen 2003-04-01 18:22 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-01 18:38 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 18:12 ` pd 1 sibling, 2 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Corinna Vinschen @ 2003-04-01 18:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 12:31:11PM -0500, Igor Pechtchanski wrote: > On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Corinna Vinschen wrote: > > > On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 09:05:51AM -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote: > > > Yes, master. How shall I punish myself? > > > > You didn't read your discworld careful enough. It's spelled > > > > "Yeth, marthter" > > > > Corinna > > (which has still no Igor from Uberwald) > > Corinna, > > I'll let you know when I develop a lisp and a hump. > Igor (not *that* one, yet) A lisp would be already a good start. Just don't write programs with it... Corinna -- Corinna Vinschen Please, send mails regarding Cygwin to Cygwin Developer mailto:cygwin@cygwin.com Red Hat, Inc. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 18:10 ` Corinna Vinschen @ 2003-04-01 18:22 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-01 18:38 ` Randall R Schulz 1 sibling, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Igor Pechtchanski @ 2003-04-01 18:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Corinna Vinschen wrote: > On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 12:31:11PM -0500, Igor Pechtchanski wrote: > > On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Corinna Vinschen wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 09:05:51AM -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote: > > > > Yes, master. How shall I punish myself? > > > > > > You didn't read your discworld careful enough. It's spelled > > > > > > "Yeth, marthter" > > > > > > Corinna > > > (which has still no Igor from Uberwald) > > > > Corinna, > > > > I'll let you know when I develop a lisp and a hump. > > Igor (not *that* one, yet) > > A lisp would be already a good start. Just don't write programs with it... > Corinna Well, FWIW, I don't use Emacs, I use vim. I've written a fair share of things in Scheme, though I prefer ML... We'll need to work on a HUMP, though... :-) Igor -- http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/ |\ _,,,---,,_ pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ igor@watson.ibm.com |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Igor Pechtchanski '---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-. Meow! The Lesser-Known Programming Language #12: LITHP This otherwise unremarkable language is distinguished by the absence of an "S" in its character set; users must substitute "TH". LITHP is said to be useful in protheththing lithtth. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 18:10 ` Corinna Vinschen 2003-04-01 18:22 ` Igor Pechtchanski @ 2003-04-01 18:38 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 19:07 ` Corinna Vinschen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 55+ messages in thread From: Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-01 18:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin At 10:10 2003-04-01, you wrote: >A lisp would be already a good start. Just don't write programs with it... Hey! Lisp is my all-time favorite language! >Corinna -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 18:38 ` Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-01 19:07 ` Corinna Vinschen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Corinna Vinschen @ 2003-04-01 19:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 10:38:15AM -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote: > At 10:10 2003-04-01, you wrote: > >A lisp would be already a good start. Just don't write programs with it... > > Hey! Lisp is my all-time favorite language! Yeth, thath the thame with all Igorth... Corinna -- Corinna Vinschen Please, send mails regarding Cygwin to Cygwin Developer mailto:cygwin@cygwin.com Red Hat, Inc. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 17:31 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-01 18:10 ` Corinna Vinschen @ 2003-04-01 18:12 ` pd 1 sibling, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: pd @ 2003-04-01 18:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 12:31:11PM -0500, Igor Pechtchanski wrote: > On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Corinna Vinschen wrote: > > > On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 09:05:51AM -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote: > > > At 08:38 2003-04-01, you wrote: > > > >I don't recall giving you my permission to move to Linux, Randall. > > > >You're too valuable to the cygwin community for me to allow this move. > > > > > > > >Sorry. > > > > > > Yes, master. How shall I punish myself? > > > > You didn't read your discworld careful enough. It's spelled > > > > "Yeth, marthter" > > > > Corinna > > (which has still no Igor from Uberwald) > > Corinna, > > I'll let you know when I develop a lisp and a hump. You can develop in lisp today. I think Mumps is pretty much of a dead language, though. -pd -- -------- Peter Davis Funny stuff at http://www.pfdstudio.com The artwork formerly shown as prints List of resources for children's writers and illustrators at: http://www.pfdstudio.com/cwrl.html -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 16:38 ` Christopher Faylor 2003-04-01 17:05 ` Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-01 17:14 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 17:19 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-02 1:54 ` Christopher Faylor 1 sibling, 2 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-01 17:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Chris, At 08:38 2003-04-01, you wrote: >I don't recall giving you my permission to move to Linux, Randall. >You're too valuable to the cygwin community for me to allow this move. Maybe a gold star would help persuade me to stay... >Sorry. > >cgf Randy (there he is again) -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 17:14 ` Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-01 17:19 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-02 1:54 ` Christopher Faylor 1 sibling, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Igor Pechtchanski @ 2003-04-01 17:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Randall R Schulz; +Cc: cygwin On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Randall R Schulz wrote: > Chris, > > At 08:38 2003-04-01, you wrote: > >I don't recall giving you my permission to move to Linux, Randall. > >You're too valuable to the cygwin community for me to allow this move. > > Maybe a gold star would help persuade me to stay... > > >Sorry. > > > >cgf > > Randy > (there he is again) Randall, Your evil twin is wheedling favors out of cgf (or trying to). Just thought you should know... Igor -- http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/ |\ _,,,---,,_ pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ igor@watson.ibm.com |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Igor Pechtchanski '---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-. Meow! Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty. -- Leto II -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 17:14 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 17:19 ` Igor Pechtchanski @ 2003-04-02 1:54 ` Christopher Faylor 2003-04-02 4:11 ` Igor Pechtchanski 1 sibling, 1 reply; 55+ messages in thread From: Christopher Faylor @ 2003-04-02 1:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 09:14:23AM -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote: >At 08:38 2003-04-01, you wrote: >>I don't recall giving you my permission to move to Linux, Randall. >>You're too valuable to the cygwin community for me to allow this move. > >Maybe a gold star would help persuade me to stay... Ok, Igor. Could you gold star "Randy" for, um, er, conspicuous service on behalf of the cygwin community? While we're at it, give yourself one for same. If you don't mind... cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-02 1:54 ` Christopher Faylor @ 2003-04-02 4:11 ` Igor Pechtchanski 0 siblings, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Igor Pechtchanski @ 2003-04-02 4:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Christopher Faylor wrote: > On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 09:14:23AM -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote: > >At 08:38 2003-04-01, you wrote: > >>I don't recall giving you my permission to move to Linux, Randall. > >>You're too valuable to the cygwin community for me to allow this move. > > > >Maybe a gold star would help persuade me to stay... > > Ok, Igor. Could you gold star "Randy" for, um, er, conspicuous service > on behalf of the cygwin community? > > While we're at it, give yourself one for same. If you don't mind... > cgf Wow, you're generous today. But then, who am I to argue... :-) Two gold stars coming up... Igor -- http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/ |\ _,,,---,,_ pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ igor@watson.ibm.com |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Igor Pechtchanski '---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-. Meow! Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty. -- Leto II -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 16:24 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 16:38 ` Christopher Faylor @ 2003-04-01 17:03 ` Thorsten Kampe 2003-04-01 18:14 ` Martin Gainty 2003-04-01 17:56 ` günter strubinsky 2 siblings, 1 reply; 55+ messages in thread From: Thorsten Kampe @ 2003-04-01 17:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin * Randall R Schulz (03-04-01 18:24 +0100) > At 07:50 2003-04-01, you wrote: >>* Randall R Schulz (03-04-01 17:29 +0100) >>> At 07:14 2003-04-01, you wrote: >>>> On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Thorsten Kampe wrote: >>>>> XP is the first rocksolid Windows OS. >>>> >>>> ... with completely unrealistic licensing (see the last paragraph of >>>> <http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#office>). >>> >>> OH. MY. GOD. >>> >>> I installed SP3 on my Win2K. Ignorance is NOT bliss. >>> >>> I guess it really is time to move to Linux. >> >> You won't. You would have to use Wine to get Cygwin running, and that >> is n-o-t s-u-p-p-o-r-t-e-d. > > I won't what? What are you saying? If I move to Linux (or Solaris or > MacOS X or FreeBSD, etc.), Cygwin will become irrelevant for me. I *know*. This was a joohoke. You won't move to Linux because you're a die-hard Cygwinist and cgf won't allow. Thorsten -- Content-Type: text/explicit; charset=ISO-8859-666 (Parental Advisory) Content-Transfer-Warning: message contains innuendos not suited for children under the age of 18 -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 17:03 ` Thorsten Kampe @ 2003-04-01 18:14 ` Martin Gainty 0 siblings, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Martin Gainty @ 2003-04-01 18:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Thorsten Kampe; +Cc: cygwin Linux STILL doesnt have driver support for the latest video cards.. In other words if you're working in Linux keep that VGA card ! -Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thorsten Kampe" <thorsten@thorstenkampe.de> To: <cygwin@cygwin.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 9:53 AM Subject: Re: Big Brother is Real > * Randall R Schulz (03-04-01 18:24 +0100) > > At 07:50 2003-04-01, you wrote: > >>* Randall R Schulz (03-04-01 17:29 +0100) > >>> At 07:14 2003-04-01, you wrote: > >>>> On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Thorsten Kampe wrote: > >>>>> XP is the first rocksolid Windows OS. > >>>> > >>>> ... with completely unrealistic licensing (see the last paragraph of > >>>> <http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#office>). > >>> > >>> OH. MY. GOD. > >>> > >>> I installed SP3 on my Win2K. Ignorance is NOT bliss. > >>> > >>> I guess it really is time to move to Linux. > >> > >> You won't. You would have to use Wine to get Cygwin running, and that > >> is n-o-t s-u-p-p-o-r-t-e-d. > > > > I won't what? What are you saying? If I move to Linux (or Solaris or > > MacOS X or FreeBSD, etc.), Cygwin will become irrelevant for me. > > I *know*. This was a joohoke. > > You won't move to Linux because you're a die-hard Cygwinist and cgf > won't allow. > > > Thorsten > -- > Content-Type: text/explicit; charset=ISO-8859-666 (Parental Advisory) > Content-Transfer-Warning: message contains innuendos not suited for > children under the age of 18 > > > -- > Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple > Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html > Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html > FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ > > -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* RE: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 16:24 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 16:38 ` Christopher Faylor 2003-04-01 17:03 ` Thorsten Kampe @ 2003-04-01 17:56 ` günter strubinsky 2003-04-01 18:07 ` Randall R Schulz 2 siblings, 1 reply; 55+ messages in thread From: günter strubinsky @ 2003-04-01 17:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Randall R Schulz', cygwin I missed out on that.. What does sp3 for win2k do? Btw. I only use amd cpu's. To my understanding they don't have the cpu id (I don't trust a software that allows me to turn the id of because obviously software can also turn it on ;) If star office and open office can read/write Micro$oft documents there is hope, otherwise don't hold your breath. Too much has been written over the last 2 decades -and stored in word documents-. If you can't open it the tool can't be used in production environments. If it can, a seamless transition is possible. I just got a new laptop (birthday) and the first time of my life I will install 2 (TWO) OS's on it. (you know which ones) About the license policies integrated: I know that's not the right newsgroup and I will be very careful: The X box has highly sophisticated copy protection integrated in hard and software. It took a whole half year until it got cracked, but the point is that it cot hacked. I heard/read that there are already a wealth of xp versions for download that have the 'call bill back' inherently disabled. The same is true for MS software. I haven't the latest statistics at hand, but the private household; those who made a copy from the office and brought it home for business and private use, won't pay extravagant prices if this is not possible anymore. Those will 'get' the grey copies because of the internets endless sources. A big problem seems to be the de facto standard of behavior by MS products. I loved Sun One's debugger since the function keys are identical to Visual Studio. I love JEDIT since the Ctrl-<char> functions are identical to the MS way (Ctrl-X, Ctrl-K, Ctrl-V, etc.). If the main competitors can (and no copyright can forbid that) emulate this functionality/behavior I see hope on the horizon. If, lastly Office 11 would not be backwards compatible with their previous documents, I see the sun rise! guenter -----Original Message----- From: cygwin-owner@cygwin.com [mailto:cygwin-owner@cygwin.com] On Behalf Of Randall R Schulz Sent: Tuesday, 01 April, 2003 10:24 To: cygwin@cygwin.com Subject: Re: Big Brother is Real Thorsten, At 07:50 2003-04-01, you wrote: >* Randall R Schulz (03-04-01 17:29 +0100) > > At 07:14 2003-04-01, you wrote: > >> On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Thorsten Kampe wrote: > >>> XP is the first rocksolid Windows OS. > >> > >> ... with completely unrealistic licensing (see the last paragraph of > >> <http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#office>). > > > > OH. MY. GOD. > > > > I installed SP3 on my Win2K. Ignorance is NOT bliss. > > > > I guess it really is time to move to Linux. > >You won't. You would have to use Wine to get Cygwin running, and that >is n-o-t s-u-p-p-o-r-t-e-d. I won't what? What are you saying? If I move to Linux (or Solaris or MacOS X or FreeBSD, etc.), Cygwin will become irrelevant for me. You're an odd bird, Thorsten. >Thorsten Randall Schulz -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* RE: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 17:56 ` günter strubinsky @ 2003-04-01 18:07 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 18:50 ` günter strubinsky 2003-04-03 15:12 ` Steve Coleman 0 siblings, 2 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-01 18:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Günter, At 09:56 2003-04-01, you wrote: >I missed out on that.. What does sp3 for win2k do? It opens a back door for MS snooping. DRM indeed! >Btw. I only use amd cpu's. To my understanding they don't have the cpu id (I >don't trust a software that allows me to turn the id of because obviously >software can also turn it on ;) Pentium IV has dispensed with the CPU ID, too. Bad PR, I guess... >If star office and open office can read/write Micro$oft documents there is >hope, otherwise don't hold your breath. Too much has been written over the >last 2 decades -and stored in word documents-. If you can't open it the tool >can't be used in production environments. If it can, a seamless transition >is possible. I just got a new laptop (birthday) and the first time of my >life I will install 2 (TWO) OS's on it. (you know which ones) It's a constant battle since MS applications will continue to extend their file formats while giving out specs only under non-disclosure. This forces the Open Source community to reverse engineer the file formats. But they're not cryptographic after all. They're meant to be readily encoded and decoded by software, so it's a manageable problem. Keep in mind that there's a world outside business, too, where things like TeX, PostScript and PDF are the linguas franca. Many communities either formally proscribe or informally eschew DOC and PPT files. >About the license policies integrated: > >I know that's not the right newsgroup and I will be very careful: >The X box has highly sophisticated copy protection integrated in hard and >software. It took a whole half year until it got cracked, but the point is >that it cot hacked. I think we have to work with the legal system, not try to subvert it. Microsoft has a right to set the licensing terms it wants. We have a right to tell them to go to hell. Currently however, and as you note, the power relationship is highly skewed. It ain't easy to "just say no" to Microsoft. >I heard/read that there are already a wealth of xp versions for download >that have the 'call bill back' inherently disabled. The same is true for MS >software. I haven't the latest statistics at hand, but the private >household; those who made a copy from the office and brought it home for >business and private use, won't pay extravagant prices if this is not >possible anymore. Those will 'get' the grey copies because of the internets >endless sources. Some OEM versions are also excused from the call-back requirements. >A big problem seems to be the de facto standard of behavior by MS products. >I loved Sun One's debugger since the function keys are identical to Visual >Studio. I love JEDIT since the Ctrl-<char> functions are identical to the MS >way (Ctrl-X, Ctrl-K, Ctrl-V, etc.). If the main competitors can (and no >copyright can forbid that) emulate this functionality/behavior I see hope on >the horizon. Many high-end applications, even jEdit, have user-configurable keyboard mappings. In other words: "Have it your way!" >If, lastly Office 11 would not be backwards compatible with their previous >documents, I see the sun rise! It's still cloudy here. >günter Randall Schulz -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* RE: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 18:07 ` Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-01 18:50 ` günter strubinsky 2003-04-01 18:56 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-03 15:12 ` Steve Coleman 1 sibling, 1 reply; 55+ messages in thread From: günter strubinsky @ 2003-04-01 18:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Randall R Schulz', cygwin Thank you for the clarification, Randall! Fred mentioned the firewall issue. I have actually zone alarm installed and disallowed -permanently- the Microsoft software (with the exception as the usual suspects, DNS, etc.) to contact outside. Now I am not so sure anymore that I got hacked by anyone else but Bill. My system started to behave erratically when I had outlook and other ms programs running: The cpu was around 2-3% busy -never more during those phases- but everything stalled. (Including the task manager). I start to believe that those progs called home and waited for response from ms until they timed out which is why my system froze for about 30-60 seconds, execute a few time slices and then went into wait-state again. I have office xp installed... Is there any info out how the snoop works? -----Original Message----- From: cygwin-owner@cygwin.com [mailto:cygwin-owner@cygwin.com] On Behalf Of Randall R Schulz Sent: Tuesday, 01 April, 2003 12:07 To: cygwin@cygwin.com Subject: RE: Big Brother is Real Günter, At 09:56 2003-04-01, you wrote: >I missed out on that.. What does sp3 for win2k do? It opens a back door for MS snooping. DRM indeed! >Btw. I only use amd cpu's. To my understanding they don't have the cpu id (I >don't trust a software that allows me to turn the id of because obviously >software can also turn it on ;) Pentium IV has dispensed with the CPU ID, too. Bad PR, I guess... >If star office and open office can read/write Micro$oft documents there is >hope, otherwise don't hold your breath. Too much has been written over the >last 2 decades -and stored in word documents-. If you can't open it the tool >can't be used in production environments. If it can, a seamless transition >is possible. I just got a new laptop (birthday) and the first time of my >life I will install 2 (TWO) OS's on it. (you know which ones) It's a constant battle since MS applications will continue to extend their file formats while giving out specs only under non-disclosure. This forces the Open Source community to reverse engineer the file formats. But they're not cryptographic after all. They're meant to be readily encoded and decoded by software, so it's a manageable problem. Keep in mind that there's a world outside business, too, where things like TeX, PostScript and PDF are the linguas franca. Many communities either formally proscribe or informally eschew DOC and PPT files. >About the license policies integrated: > >I know that's not the right newsgroup and I will be very careful: >The X box has highly sophisticated copy protection integrated in hard and >software. It took a whole half year until it got cracked, but the point is >that it cot hacked. I think we have to work with the legal system, not try to subvert it. Microsoft has a right to set the licensing terms it wants. We have a right to tell them to go to hell. Currently however, and as you note, the power relationship is highly skewed. It ain't easy to "just say no" to Microsoft. >I heard/read that there are already a wealth of xp versions for download >that have the 'call bill back' inherently disabled. The same is true for MS >software. I haven't the latest statistics at hand, but the private >household; those who made a copy from the office and brought it home for >business and private use, won't pay extravagant prices if this is not >possible anymore. Those will 'get' the grey copies because of the internets >endless sources. Some OEM versions are also excused from the call-back requirements. >A big problem seems to be the de facto standard of behavior by MS products. >I loved Sun One's debugger since the function keys are identical to Visual >Studio. I love JEDIT since the Ctrl-<char> functions are identical to the MS >way (Ctrl-X, Ctrl-K, Ctrl-V, etc.). If the main competitors can (and no >copyright can forbid that) emulate this functionality/behavior I see hope on >the horizon. Many high-end applications, even jEdit, have user-configurable keyboard mappings. In other words: "Have it your way!" >If, lastly Office 11 would not be backwards compatible with their previous >documents, I see the sun rise! It's still cloudy here. >günter Randall Schulz -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* RE: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 18:50 ` günter strubinsky @ 2003-04-01 18:56 ` Randall R Schulz 0 siblings, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-01 18:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Günter, That first remark of mine was meant facetiously, of course. SP3 does more than just open a privacy hole (I assume). My guess (nope, I haven't done the research--I had my child-like naivete destroyed by Igor's URL just today!) is that it's during system update that you're going to be probed, but that's just a hunch. It seems likely that were you to successfully configure a firewall to prevent this system probing, you'd also prevent other more desirable activity or would simply cause Windows to refuse to function. Anyway, I shouldn't indulge in this kind of guesswork in public. WinXPNews (<http://www.winxpnews.com/>) seems to be a good source for this sort of information. If (and when) I really want to know, I'll probably start there. And Google, of course. Good luck. Don't let the bedbugs bite! Randall Schulz At 10:51 2003-04-01, günter strubinsky wrote: >Thank you for the clarification, Randall! > >Fred mentioned the firewall issue. I have actually zone alarm installed and >disallowed -permanently- the Microsoft software (with the exception as the >usual suspects, DNS, etc.) to contact outside. Now I am not so sure anymore >that I got hacked by anyone else but Bill. My system started to behave >erratically when I had outlook and other ms programs running: > >The cpu was around 2-3% busy -never more during those phases- but everything >stalled. (Including the task manager). I start to believe that those progs >called home and waited for response from ms until they timed out which is >why my system froze for about 30-60 seconds, execute a few time slices and >then went into wait-state again. I have office xp installed... > >Is there any info out how the snoop works? -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-01 18:07 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 18:50 ` günter strubinsky @ 2003-04-03 15:12 ` Steve Coleman 2003-04-03 15:59 ` Tim Prince 2003-04-03 16:20 ` Andrew DeFaria 1 sibling, 2 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Steve Coleman @ 2003-04-03 15:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Randall R Schulz; +Cc: cygwin Randall R Schulz wrote: > I think we have to work with the legal system, not try to subvert it. > Microsoft has a right to set the licensing terms it wants. We have a > right to tell them to go to hell. Currently however, and as you note, > the power relationship is highly skewed. It ain't easy to "just say > no" to Microsoft. And in some cases you can't say "no"! A long time ago (showing my age here - lol) when I worked for NASA, I first cut my teeth on Cygwin out of desperation to get my job done on a Wintel box. The very fact that it did not possess anything even close to resembling real POSIX was a constant thorn in my side on a daily basis. At the time I was a representative to the X/Open organization and was heavily involved in the system benchmarking and conformance testing to ensure that all equipment supplied on several large contracts adhered to the X/Open standards. That is until the M$ "legal suites" showed up in force and muscled there way in through legal threats. Can you imagine that? NASA, as big of a government organization as it is, being muscled and pushed around by Microsloths lawyers to accept Windows as an X/Open complient operating system? Without Cygwin Windoze would never even come close to being X/Open complient, and Cygwin at that point was still in its infant stages of development. The short story is that M$ intimidated NASA into creating a contract just for M$ to sell their stuff even though they were not compliant with any of the benchmark tests or feature lists required in order to compete. If you can't compete technically (or just need some spare cash on hand), just threaten to sue. Thank you team Cygwin! ;-) (These are my own thoughts and opinions and in no way reflect my current or past employers positions in any way) 8*} -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-03 15:12 ` Steve Coleman @ 2003-04-03 15:59 ` Tim Prince 2003-04-03 16:02 ` Randall R Schulz ` (2 more replies) 2003-04-03 16:20 ` Andrew DeFaria 1 sibling, 3 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Tim Prince @ 2003-04-03 15:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Steve Coleman, Randall R Schulz; +Cc: cygwin On Thursday 03 April 2003 06:54, Steve Coleman wrote: > Randall R Schulz wrote: > > I think we have to work with the legal system, not try to subvert it. > > Microsoft has a right to set the licensing terms it wants. We have a > > right to tell them to go to hell. Currently however, and as you note, > > the power relationship is highly skewed. It ain't easy to "just say > > no" to Microsoft. > > And in some cases you can't say "no"! > > A long time ago (showing my age here - lol) when I worked for NASA, I > first cut my teeth on Cygwin out of desperation to get my job done on a > Wintel box. The very fact that it did not possess anything even close to > resembling real POSIX was a constant thorn in my side on a daily basis. > At the time I was a representative to the X/Open organization and was > heavily involved in the system benchmarking and conformance testing to > ensure that all equipment supplied on several large contracts adhered to > the X/Open standards. That is until the M$ "legal suites" showed up in > force and muscled there way in through legal threats. Can you imagine > that? NASA, as big of a government organization as it is, being muscled > and pushed around by Microsloths lawyers to accept Windows as an X/Open > complient operating system? Without Cygwin Windoze would never even come > close to being X/Open complient, and Cygwin at that point was still in > its infant stages of development. Lack of cygwin support has impeded the market penetration of Windows XP64, but it seems Microsoft would rather lose out to linux and HPUX than let their customers run cygwin. It may be they don't understand how many customers depend on cygwin, which is their fault too, since they don't support those customers, just collect the fees and forget them. -- Tim Prince -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-03 15:59 ` Tim Prince @ 2003-04-03 16:02 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-03 16:30 ` Andrew DeFaria 2003-04-03 21:41 ` Christopher Faylor 2 siblings, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-03 16:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Tim, At 07:28 2003-04-03, you wrote: >... > >Lack of cygwin support has impeded the market penetration of Windows >XP64, but it seems Microsoft would rather lose out to linux and HPUX >than let their customers run cygwin. It may be they don't understand >how many customers depend on cygwin, which is their fault too, since >they don't support those customers, just collect the fees and forget them. "We don't care. We don't have to. We're the phone company." -- Lily Tomlin >-- >Tim Prince Randall Schulz -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-03 15:59 ` Tim Prince 2003-04-03 16:02 ` Randall R Schulz @ 2003-04-03 16:30 ` Andrew DeFaria 2003-04-03 16:46 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-03 21:41 ` Christopher Faylor 2 siblings, 1 reply; 55+ messages in thread From: Andrew DeFaria @ 2003-04-03 16:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Tim Prince wrote: > Lack of cygwin support has impeded the market penetration of Windows > XP64, but it seems Microsoft would rather lose out to linux and HPUX > than let their customers run cygwin. It may be they don't understand > how many customers depend on cygwin, which is their fault too, since > they don't support those customers, just collect the fees and forget them. How exactly does Microsoft stop their customers from running Cygwin? I'm curious because as you even admit "many customers depend on cygwin" so it is demonstrable that Microsoft has no power to stop their customers from running Cygwin. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-03 16:30 ` Andrew DeFaria @ 2003-04-03 16:46 ` Igor Pechtchanski 0 siblings, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Igor Pechtchanski @ 2003-04-03 16:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Andrew DeFaria; +Cc: cygwin On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Andrew DeFaria wrote: > Tim Prince wrote: > > > Lack of cygwin support has impeded the market penetration of Windows > > XP64, but it seems Microsoft would rather lose out to linux and HPUX > > than let their customers run cygwin. It may be they don't understand > > how many customers depend on cygwin, which is their fault too, since > > they don't support those customers, just collect the fees and forget them. > > How exactly does Microsoft stop their customers from running Cygwin? I'm > curious because as you even admit "many customers depend on cygwin" so > it is demonstrable that Microsoft has no power to stop their customers > from running Cygwin. Microsoft doesn't "stop their customers from running Cygwin", it introduces API changes that are incompatible with previous versions, and thus cause programs like Cygwin to not run. Whether this is deliberate or accidental remains debatable. Igor -- http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/ |\ _,,,---,,_ pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ igor@watson.ibm.com |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Igor Pechtchanski '---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-. Meow! Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-03 15:59 ` Tim Prince 2003-04-03 16:02 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-03 16:30 ` Andrew DeFaria @ 2003-04-03 21:41 ` Christopher Faylor 2 siblings, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Christopher Faylor @ 2003-04-03 21:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 07:28:14AM -0800, Tim Prince wrote: >Lack of cygwin support has impeded the market penetration of Windows XP64, Wow. I had no idea I was so powerful. I think I need a raise. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-03 15:12 ` Steve Coleman 2003-04-03 15:59 ` Tim Prince @ 2003-04-03 16:20 ` Andrew DeFaria 1 sibling, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Andrew DeFaria @ 2003-04-03 16:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Steve Coleman wrote: > Randall R Schulz wrote: > >> I think we have to work with the legal system, not try to subvert it. >> Microsoft has a right to set the licensing terms it wants. We have a >> right to tell them to go to hell. Currently however, and as you note, >> the power relationship is highly skewed. It ain't easy to "just say >> no" to Microsoft. > > And in some cases you can't say "no"! You can always say no. You may or may not always wish to deal with the consequences of saying no. If you don't want to deal with the consequences of saying no then you have actively choosen to say yes. > A long time ago (showing my age here - lol) when I worked for NASA, I > first cut my teeth on Cygwin out of desperation to get my job done on > a Wintel box. The very fact that it did not possess anything even > close to resembling real POSIX was a constant thorn in my side on a > daily basis. At the time I was a representative to the X/Open > organization and was heavily involved in the system benchmarking and > conformance testing to ensure that all equipment supplied on several > large contracts adhered to the X/Open standards. That is until the M$ > "legal suites" showed up in force and muscled there way in through > legal threats. Can you imagine that? NASA, as big of a government > organization as it is, being muscled and pushed around by Microsloths > lawyers to accept Windows as an X/Open complient operating system? No I can't imagine that! Somebody, somewhere decided to say yes instead of no. That is not being pushed to say yes. > Without Cygwin Windoze would never even come close to being X/Open > complient, and Cygwin at that point was still in its infant stages of > development. The short story is that M$ intimidated NASA into creating > a contract just for M$ to sell their stuff even though they were not > compliant with any of the benchmark tests or feature lists required in > order to compete. If you can't compete technically (or just need some > spare cash on hand), just threaten to sue. > > Thank you team Cygwin! ;-) > > (These are my own thoughts and opinions and in no way reflect my > current or past employers positions in any way) > > 8*} -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <1049212998.6303.ezmlm@cygwin.com>]
* Re: Big Brother is Real [not found] <1049212998.6303.ezmlm@cygwin.com> @ 2003-04-01 16:38 ` Fred Ma 0 siblings, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Fred Ma @ 2003-04-01 16:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin > OH. MY. GOD. > > I installed SP3 on my Win2K. Ignorance is NOT bliss. > > I guess it really is time to move to Linux. > > > > Randall Schulz > Any comments on whether a firewall helps? I don't use office, just Win2K (and even then, mostly on cygwin). I recall a time Kerio and ZoneAlarm kept asking for server rights for some Win2K service programs. Internet access didn't work without granting these rights. So I granted them. Fred -- Fred Ma, fma@doe.carleton.ca Carleton University, Dept. of Electronics 1125 Colonel By Drive, Ottawa, Ontario Canada, K1S 5B6 -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* RE: Big Brother is Real @ 2003-04-01 18:10 günter strubinsky 0 siblings, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: günter strubinsky @ 2003-04-01 18:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Randall R Schulz', cygwin I apologize since this questions still does not belong into this forum (though it might impact decisions towards linux) When I installed windows last week again (got hacked) I did not have the option to install sp3 but immediately received sp4 and the .NET network stuff. I am screwed now! Am I not? I assume that sp4 is a combination of all previous SPs? I am mad! Really mad about that. We are so used to click 'agree' without bothering to read the fine print. :( guenter -----Original Message----- From: günter strubinsky [mailto:strubinsky@acm.org] Sent: Tuesday, 01 April, 2003 11:56 To: 'Randall R Schulz'; 'cygwin@cygwin.com' Subject: RE: Big Brother is Real I missed out on that.. What does sp3 for win2k do? Btw. I only use amd cpu's. To my understanding they don't have the cpu id (I don't trust a software that allows me to turn the id of because obviously software can also turn it on ;) If star office and open office can read/write Micro$oft documents there is hope, otherwise don't hold your breath. Too much has been written over the last 2 decades -and stored in word documents-. If you can't open it the tool can't be used in production environments. If it can, a seamless transition is possible. I just got a new laptop (birthday) and the first time of my life I will install 2 (TWO) OS's on it. (you know which ones) About the license policies integrated: I know that's not the right newsgroup and I will be very careful: The X box has highly sophisticated copy protection integrated in hard and software. It took a whole half year until it got cracked, but the point is that it cot hacked. I heard/read that there are already a wealth of xp versions for download that have the 'call bill back' inherently disabled. The same is true for MS software. I haven't the latest statistics at hand, but the private household; those who made a copy from the office and brought it home for business and private use, won't pay extravagant prices if this is not possible anymore. Those will 'get' the grey copies because of the internets endless sources. A big problem seems to be the de facto standard of behavior by MS products. I loved Sun One's debugger since the function keys are identical to Visual Studio. I love JEDIT since the Ctrl-<char> functions are identical to the MS way (Ctrl-X, Ctrl-K, Ctrl-V, etc.). If the main competitors can (and no copyright can forbid that) emulate this functionality/behavior I see hope on the horizon. If, lastly Office 11 would not be backwards compatible with their previous documents, I see the sun rise! guenter -----Original Message----- From: cygwin-owner@cygwin.com [mailto:cygwin-owner@cygwin.com] On Behalf Of Randall R Schulz Sent: Tuesday, 01 April, 2003 10:24 To: cygwin@cygwin.com Subject: Re: Big Brother is Real Thorsten, At 07:50 2003-04-01, you wrote: >* Randall R Schulz (03-04-01 17:29 +0100) > > At 07:14 2003-04-01, you wrote: > >> On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Thorsten Kampe wrote: > >>> XP is the first rocksolid Windows OS. > >> > >> ... with completely unrealistic licensing (see the last paragraph of > >> <http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#office>). > > > > OH. MY. GOD. > > > > I installed SP3 on my Win2K. Ignorance is NOT bliss. > > > > I guess it really is time to move to Linux. > >You won't. You would have to use Wine to get Cygwin running, and that >is n-o-t s-u-p-p-o-r-t-e-d. I won't what? What are you saying? If I move to Linux (or Solaris or MacOS X or FreeBSD, etc.), Cygwin will become irrelevant for me. You're an odd bird, Thorsten. >Thorsten Randall Schulz -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* RE: Big Brother is Real
@ 2003-04-01 19:46 Williams, Gerald S (Jerry)
0 siblings, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread
From: Williams, Gerald S (Jerry) @ 2003-04-01 19:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
Randall R Schulz wrote:
> Obligatory disclaimer: I ANAL. You?
You'd better make that IANASCJ
gsw
--
Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* RE: Big Brother is Real @ 2003-04-03 19:29 Stephan Mueller 2003-04-03 19:32 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-03 21:47 ` Christopher Faylor 0 siblings, 2 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Stephan Mueller @ 2003-04-03 19:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Can someone elaborate on exactly which APIs have changed incompatibly (in 64-bit Windows)? I'm only mildly familiar with the 64-bit story, but my understanding is that the the 64-bit APIs are basically the same as 32-bit (with the natural widening of types) but given that the 64-bit API is 'new' in that there's no legacy (shipped, binary) code base to support, this is probably the best time to make API changes (in 64-bit) that repair bad design decisions and bad interface bugs and so made earlier (in 32-bit API, or maybe even 16-bit). Regardless, how does this affect Cygwin at all? The 32-bit subsystem on 64-bit Windows OSes should run 32-bit apps with no semantic changes -- that's its job, and I would be surprised if the behaviour of any 32-bit APIs was gratuitously different (although it's possible there are bugs -- worth reporting if that's the case). If you're trying to compile cygwin itself for 64-bit, well, you may need to make some cygwin source changes with #ifdefs, yes -- is that the objection here? stephan(); -----Original Message----- From: cygwin-owner@cygwin.com [mailto:cygwin-owner@cygwin.com] On Behalf Of Igor Pechtchanski Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 8:31 AM To: Andrew DeFaria Cc: cygwin@cygwin.com Subject: Re: Big Brother is Real On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Andrew DeFaria wrote: > Tim Prince wrote: > > > Lack of cygwin support has impeded the market penetration of Windows > > XP64, but it seems Microsoft would rather lose out to linux and HPUX > > than let their customers run cygwin. It may be they don't understand > > how many customers depend on cygwin, which is their fault too, since > > they don't support those customers, just collect the fees and forget > > them. > > How exactly does Microsoft stop their customers from running Cygwin? > I'm curious because as you even admit "many customers depend on > cygwin" so it is demonstrable that Microsoft has no power to stop > their customers from running Cygwin. Microsoft doesn't "stop their customers from running Cygwin", it introduces API changes that are incompatible with previous versions, and thus cause programs like Cygwin to not run. Whether this is deliberate or accidental remains debatable. Igor -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* RE: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-03 19:29 Stephan Mueller @ 2003-04-03 19:32 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-03 21:47 ` Christopher Faylor 1 sibling, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Igor Pechtchanski @ 2003-04-03 19:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stephan Mueller; +Cc: cygwin Note that the below was a general statement about API changes, not even referring to XP64 specifically. I do not use the newest Windows, and don't have enough expertise to reason about the specific API changes. These changes do happen (otherwise Cygwin wouldn't have to be "ported" to the newer versions of Windows), but, FWIW, I highly doubt that they are introduced to deliberately stifle *Cygwin* development. Just wanted to make this clear. Igor On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Stephan Mueller wrote: > Can someone elaborate on exactly which APIs have changed incompatibly > (in 64-bit Windows)? > > I'm only mildly familiar with the 64-bit story, but my understanding is > that the the 64-bit APIs are basically the same as 32-bit (with the > natural widening of types) but given that the 64-bit API is 'new' in > that there's no legacy (shipped, binary) code base to support, this is > probably the best time to make API changes (in 64-bit) that repair bad > design decisions and bad interface bugs and so made earlier (in 32-bit > API, or maybe even 16-bit). > > Regardless, how does this affect Cygwin at all? The 32-bit subsystem on > 64-bit Windows OSes should run 32-bit apps with no semantic changes -- > that's its job, and I would be surprised if the behaviour of any 32-bit > APIs was gratuitously different (although it's possible there are bugs > -- worth reporting if that's the case). > > If you're trying to compile cygwin itself for 64-bit, well, you may need > to make some cygwin source changes with #ifdefs, yes -- is that the > objection here? > > stephan(); > > -----Original Message----- > From: cygwin-owner@cygwin.com [mailto:cygwin-owner@cygwin.com] On Behalf > Of Igor Pechtchanski > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 8:31 AM > To: Andrew DeFaria > Cc: cygwin@cygwin.com > Subject: Re: Big Brother is Real > > On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Andrew DeFaria wrote: > > > Tim Prince wrote: > > > > > Lack of cygwin support has impeded the market penetration of Windows > > > XP64, but it seems Microsoft would rather lose out to linux and HPUX > > > than let their customers run cygwin. It may be they don't understand > > > how many customers depend on cygwin, which is their fault too, since > > > they don't support those customers, just collect the fees and forget > > > them. > > > > How exactly does Microsoft stop their customers from running Cygwin? > > I'm curious because as you even admit "many customers depend on > > cygwin" so it is demonstrable that Microsoft has no power to stop > > their customers from running Cygwin. > > Microsoft doesn't "stop their customers from running Cygwin", it > introduces API changes that are incompatible with previous versions, and > thus cause programs like Cygwin to not run. Whether this is deliberate > or accidental remains debatable. > Igor -- http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/ |\ _,,,---,,_ pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ igor@watson.ibm.com |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Igor Pechtchanski '---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-. Meow! Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty. -- Leto II -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-03 19:29 Stephan Mueller 2003-04-03 19:32 ` Igor Pechtchanski @ 2003-04-03 21:47 ` Christopher Faylor 2003-04-03 21:49 ` Corinna Vinschen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 55+ messages in thread From: Christopher Faylor @ 2003-04-03 21:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 10:37:19AM -0800, Stephan Mueller wrote: >Can someone elaborate on exactly which APIs have changed incompatibly >(in 64-bit Windows)? > >I'm only mildly familiar with the 64-bit story, but my understanding is >that the the 64-bit APIs are basically the same as 32-bit (with the >natural widening of types) but given that the 64-bit API is 'new' in >that there's no legacy (shipped, binary) code base to support, this is >probably the best time to make API changes (in 64-bit) that repair bad >design decisions and bad interface bugs and so made earlier (in 32-bit >API, or maybe even 16-bit). > >Regardless, how does this affect Cygwin at all? The 32-bit subsystem on >64-bit Windows OSes should run 32-bit apps with no semantic changes -- >that's its job, and I would be surprised if the behaviour of any 32-bit >APIs was gratuitously different (although it's possible there are bugs >-- worth reporting if that's the case). > >If you're trying to compile cygwin itself for 64-bit, well, you may need >to make some cygwin source changes with #ifdefs, yes -- is that the >objection here? I wouldn't be surprised if some of the iffy decisions that cygwin makes just break on the 64-bit Windows. It's not Microsoft's fault if they change an undocumented behavior. Cygwin relies on a few undocumented-but-consistent behaviors to do some of its magic. I think the only problem is that Cygwin probably just needs to be debugged to see what's going on. If someone wants to send me a nice 64 bit system running WinXP 64 (or whatever it's called), I'll see what I can do. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-03 21:47 ` Christopher Faylor @ 2003-04-03 21:49 ` Corinna Vinschen 2003-04-03 21:57 ` Christopher Faylor 0 siblings, 1 reply; 55+ messages in thread From: Corinna Vinschen @ 2003-04-03 21:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 04:37:26PM -0500, Christopher Faylor wrote: > I think the only problem is that Cygwin probably just needs to be debugged > to see what's going on. If someone wants to send me a nice 64 bit system > running WinXP 64 (or whatever it's called), I'll see what I can do. Coincidentally I was going to suggest something similar... I got a hint lately about stuff working different on 64bit. If a 32 bit application is called from a 64 bit application the stack is 0xc000 lower than if the same 32 bit application is called by another 32 bit application. E. g., the first bash is spawned from 64 bit cmd.exe, its stack is shifted 0xc000. A CreateProcess call from fork will now create a child with the stack at another location which breaks the longjmp. Corinna -- Corinna Vinschen Please, send mails regarding Cygwin to Cygwin Developer mailto:cygwin@cygwin.com Red Hat, Inc. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-03 21:49 ` Corinna Vinschen @ 2003-04-03 21:57 ` Christopher Faylor 2003-04-03 21:58 ` Corinna Vinschen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 55+ messages in thread From: Christopher Faylor @ 2003-04-03 21:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 11:47:39PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote: >On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 04:37:26PM -0500, Christopher Faylor wrote: >> I think the only problem is that Cygwin probably just needs to be debugged >> to see what's going on. If someone wants to send me a nice 64 bit system >> running WinXP 64 (or whatever it's called), I'll see what I can do. > >Coincidentally I was going to suggest something similar... > >I got a hint lately about stuff working different on 64bit. If a 32 bit >application is called from a 64 bit application the stack is 0xc000 >lower than if the same 32 bit application is called by another 32 bit >application. E. g., the first bash is spawned from 64 bit cmd.exe, its >stack is shifted 0xc000. A CreateProcess call from fork will now create >a child with the stack at another location which breaks the longjmp. That shouldn't be a problem. That's no different than if fork() is called from another thread. The stack should be relocated in the forkee automatically unless the memory for the stack is being used for something else. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
* Re: Big Brother is Real 2003-04-03 21:57 ` Christopher Faylor @ 2003-04-03 21:58 ` Corinna Vinschen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 55+ messages in thread From: Corinna Vinschen @ 2003-04-03 21:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 04:49:43PM -0500, Christopher Faylor wrote: > On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 11:47:39PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote: > >I got a hint lately about stuff working different on 64bit. If a 32 bit > >application is called from a 64 bit application the stack is 0xc000 > >lower than if the same 32 bit application is called by another 32 bit > >application. E. g., the first bash is spawned from 64 bit cmd.exe, its > >stack is shifted 0xc000. A CreateProcess call from fork will now create > >a child with the stack at another location which breaks the longjmp. > > That shouldn't be a problem. That's no different than if fork() is > called from another thread. The stack should be relocated in the forkee > automatically unless the memory for the stack is being used for something > else. Hmm, this was apparently the reason it didn't work. The guy tracked it down to the longjmp which SEGV'd since it tried to return to an invalid memory region. But anyway, fork is your child. Corinna -- Corinna Vinschen Please, send mails regarding Cygwin to Cygwin Developer mailto:cygwin@cygwin.com Red Hat, Inc. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 55+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2003-04-03 21:56 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 55+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2003-03-31 15:15 ls Question Demmer, Thomas 2003-03-31 22:48 ` ls Question + bug? Hannu E K Nevalainen (garbage mail) 2003-03-31 23:09 ` Thorsten Kampe 2003-04-01 9:31 ` Hannu E K Nevalainen (garbage mail) 2003-04-01 14:49 ` Thorsten Kampe 2003-04-01 15:10 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 15:46 ` Peter Davis 2003-04-01 17:08 ` Thorsten Kampe 2003-04-01 15:52 ` Thorsten Kampe 2003-04-01 15:14 ` Igor Pechtchanski [not found] ` <Pine.GSO.4.44.0304011012400.21921-100000@slinky.cs.nyu.edu > 2003-04-01 15:29 ` Big Brother is Real Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 15:32 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-01 16:09 ` Martin Gainty 2003-04-01 16:21 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 16:13 ` Thorsten Kampe 2003-04-01 16:24 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 16:38 ` Christopher Faylor 2003-04-01 17:05 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 17:19 ` Christopher Faylor 2003-04-01 17:21 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-01 17:39 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 18:25 ` Christopher Faylor 2003-04-01 17:21 ` Corinna Vinschen 2003-04-01 17:31 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-01 18:10 ` Corinna Vinschen 2003-04-01 18:22 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-01 18:38 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 19:07 ` Corinna Vinschen 2003-04-01 18:12 ` pd 2003-04-01 17:14 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 17:19 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-02 1:54 ` Christopher Faylor 2003-04-02 4:11 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-01 17:03 ` Thorsten Kampe 2003-04-01 18:14 ` Martin Gainty 2003-04-01 17:56 ` günter strubinsky 2003-04-01 18:07 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-01 18:50 ` günter strubinsky 2003-04-01 18:56 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-03 15:12 ` Steve Coleman 2003-04-03 15:59 ` Tim Prince 2003-04-03 16:02 ` Randall R Schulz 2003-04-03 16:30 ` Andrew DeFaria 2003-04-03 16:46 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-03 21:41 ` Christopher Faylor 2003-04-03 16:20 ` Andrew DeFaria [not found] <1049212998.6303.ezmlm@cygwin.com> 2003-04-01 16:38 ` Fred Ma 2003-04-01 18:10 günter strubinsky 2003-04-01 19:46 Williams, Gerald S (Jerry) 2003-04-03 19:29 Stephan Mueller 2003-04-03 19:32 ` Igor Pechtchanski 2003-04-03 21:47 ` Christopher Faylor 2003-04-03 21:49 ` Corinna Vinschen 2003-04-03 21:57 ` Christopher Faylor 2003-04-03 21:58 ` Corinna Vinschen
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).