How do I get an old version of cygwin?

How do I get an old version of cygwin?

[James M. Rogers]

My company has a small program that we use to pull data from files on 
multiple OSes. 

We use the latest version of cygwin on our own internal computers to run 
under windows systems and this works fine.

However, one of our clients has an old version of cygwin that uses the 
1.5.4 DLL.  This is a DLL on a production box over which we have no 
control.  The client themselves just installs the product from another 
vendor and it just works.  This is not a full version of the cygwin 
install.  There are no build tools on this box.

My problem is that to support this client I need to get an install of 
cygwin 1.5.4 onto a windows box so I can compile our program to run on 
their production server.

I have tried to compile and just install the executable on their machine 
and that doesn't work; the DLL is the wrong version.   I have tried 
copying their DLL over onto my box and get the error; all my installed 
tools complain that there is a wrong DLL installed.

So, what I need is to install the exact DLL and build tools, all at the 
same time onto a box.  I am willing to do a checkout and build from CVS 
if pointed to the directions on how to do this.

Thanks in advance!

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Re: How do I get an old version of cygwin?

[Larry Hall]

At 06:11 PM 1/17/2005, you wrote:
>My company has a small program that we use to pull data from files on multiple OSes. 
>We use the latest version of cygwin on our own internal computers to run under windows systems and this works fine.
>
>However, one of our clients has an old version of cygwin that uses the 1.5.4 DLL.  This is a DLL on a production box over which we have no control.  The client themselves just installs the product from another vendor and it just works.  This is not a full version of the cygwin install.  There are no build tools on this box.
>
>My problem is that to support this client I need to get an install of cygwin 1.5.4 onto a windows box so I can compile our program to run on their production server.
>
>I have tried to compile and just install the executable on their machine and that doesn't work; the DLL is the wrong version.   I have tried copying their DLL over onto my box and get the error; all my installed tools complain that there is a wrong DLL installed.
>
>So, what I need is to install the exact DLL and build tools, all at the same time onto a box.  I am willing to do a checkout and build from CVS if pointed to the directions on how to do this.
>
>Thanks in advance!

Sounds like you're out of luck then, unless someone out there has an
entire distribution on CD circa Cygwin package version 1.5.4 or you 
rebuild all the tools you need to match that DLL.  You're probably 
better off convincing the client to update.  Either that, or get them
to provide you the environment you need to support them.


--
Larry Hall                              http://www.rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
838 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9889 - FAX
Holliston, MA 01746                     


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Re: How do I get an old version of cygwin?

[Doctor Bill]

What I would try is:

  1. Rename the cygwin on my machine.
  2. Save and then erase the cygwin registry settings.
  3. Copy their whole cygwin installation and registry settings to your machine.
  4. Use setup to download the source packages you need that are not available
      in their distribution.
  5. Cross my fingers and hope the source packages build with the
older versions of
      the libraries.
  6. Cross my fingers and build the application.

Bill



On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:26:40 -0500, Larry Hall
<lh-no-personal-replies-please@cygwin.com> wrote:
> At 06:11 PM 1/17/2005, you wrote:
> >My company has a small program that we use to pull data from files on multiple OSes.
> >We use the latest version of cygwin on our own internal computers to run under windows systems and this works fine.
> >
> >However, one of our clients has an old version of cygwin that uses the 1.5.4 DLL.  This is a DLL on a production box over which we have no control.  The client themselves just installs the product from another vendor and it just works.  This is not a full version of the cygwin install.  There are no build tools on this box.
> >
> >My problem is that to support this client I need to get an install of cygwin 1.5.4 onto a windows box so I can compile our program to run on their production server.
> >
> >I have tried to compile and just install the executable on their machine and that doesn't work; the DLL is the wrong version.   I have tried copying their DLL over onto my box and get the error; all my installed tools complain that there is a wrong DLL installed.
> >
> >So, what I need is to install the exact DLL and build tools, all at the same time onto a box.  I am willing to do a checkout and build from CVS if pointed to the directions on how to do this.
> >
> >Thanks in advance!
> 
> Sounds like you're out of luck then, unless someone out there has an
> entire distribution on CD circa Cygwin package version 1.5.4 or you
> rebuild all the tools you need to match that DLL.  You're probably
> better off convincing the client to update.  Either that, or get them
> to provide you the environment you need to support them.
> 
> --
> Larry Hall                              http://www.rfk.com
> RFK Partners, Inc.                      (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
> 838 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9889 - FAX
> Holliston, MA 01746                     
> 
> 
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Re: How do I get an old version of cygwin?

[Christopher Faylor]

On Tue, Jan 18, 2005 at 11:08:03AM -0500, Doctor Bill wrote:
>What I would try is:
>
>  1. Rename the cygwin on my machine.
>  2. Save and then erase the cygwin registry settings.
>  3. Copy their whole cygwin installation and registry settings to your machine.
>  4. Use setup to download the source packages you need that are not available
>      in their distribution.
>  5. Cross my fingers and hope the source packages build with the
>older versions of
>      the libraries.
>  6. Cross my fingers and build the application.

How about if we find out what the actual problem is before we go to all
of that effort?  I don't see any reason to play around with registry
settings just to build an application.

Questions to ponder:

What does "the dll is the wrong version" mean?

What is the specific error?

FWIW, you may be able to just get away with linking using the customer's
cygwin1.dll on the link line, i.e.,

gcc -o foo foo.o -Wl,cygwin1.dll

cgf

>On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:26:40 -0500, Larry Hall
><lh-no-personal-replies-please@cygwin.com> wrote:
>> At 06:11 PM 1/17/2005, you wrote:
>>>My company has a small program that we use to pull data from files on
>>>multiple OSes.  We use the latest version of cygwin on our own internal
>>>computers to run under windows systems and this works fine.
>>>
>>>However, one of our clients has an old version of cygwin that uses the
>>>1.5.4 DLL.  This is a DLL on a production box over which we have no
>>>control.  The client themselves just installs the product from another
>>>vendor and it just works.  This is not a full version of the cygwin
>>>install.  There are no build tools on this box.
>>>
>>>My problem is that to support this client I need to get an install of
>>>cygwin 1.5.4 onto a windows box so I can compile our program to run on
>>>their production server.
>>>
>>>I have tried to compile and just install the executable on their
>>>machine and that doesn't work; the DLL is the wrong version.  I have
>>>tried copying their DLL over onto my box and get the error; all my
>>>installed tools complain that there is a wrong DLL installed.
>>>
>>>So, what I need is to install the exact DLL and build tools, all at the
>>>same time onto a box.  I am willing to do a checkout and build from CVS
>>>if pointed to the directions on how to do this.
>>>
>>>Thanks in advance!
>>
>>Sounds like you're out of luck then, unless someone out there has an
>>entire distribution on CD circa Cygwin package version 1.5.4 or you
>>rebuild all the tools you need to match that DLL.  You're probably
>>better off convincing the client to update.  Either that, or get them
>>to provide you the environment you need to support them.

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Re: How do I get an old version of cygwin?

[Adrian Cox]

On Mon, 2005-01-17 at 15:11 -0800, James M. Rogers wrote:
> My company has a small program that we use to pull data from files on 
> multiple OSes. 
> 
> We use the latest version of cygwin on our own internal computers to run 
> under windows systems and this works fine.
> 
> However, one of our clients has an old version of cygwin that uses the 
> 1.5.4 DLL.  This is a DLL on a production box over which we have no 
> control.  The client themselves just installs the product from another 
> vendor and it just works.  This is not a full version of the cygwin 
> install.  There are no build tools on this box.

Have you considered building a custom version of the latest Cygwin, and
putting it on their box in a different directory? Trying to solve this
sort of problem is unpopular on this list, but my initial research
suggests that changing the values of CYGWIN_VERSION_DLL_IDENTIFIER and
CYGWIN_INFO_CYGNUS_REGISTRY_NAME should do the job.

-- 
Adrian Cox <adrian@humboldt.co.uk>


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Re: How do I get an old version of cygwin?

[Christopher Faylor]

On Tue, Jan 18, 2005 at 08:41:51AM +0000, Adrian Cox wrote:
>On Mon, 2005-01-17 at 15:11 -0800, James M. Rogers wrote:
>>My company has a small program that we use to pull data from files on
>>multiple OSes.
>>
>>We use the latest version of cygwin on our own internal computers to
>>run under windows systems and this works fine.
>>
>>However, one of our clients has an old version of cygwin that uses the
>>1.5.4 DLL.  This is a DLL on a production box over which we have no
>>control.  The client themselves just installs the product from another
>>vendor and it just works.  This is not a full version of the cygwin
>>install.  There are no build tools on this box.
>
>Have you considered building a custom version of the latest Cygwin, and
>putting it on their box in a different directory?  Trying to solve this
>sort of problem is unpopular on this list, but my initial research
>suggests that changing the values of CYGWIN_VERSION_DLL_IDENTIFIER and
>CYGWIN_INFO_CYGNUS_REGISTRY_NAME should do the job.

You really shouldn't be giving out advice to people without
understanding what the problems are.  You don't even know why this
person needs to hve an older version of cygwin.  Immediately jumping to
the conclusion that they just need to mess with things in the source and
recompile is not good advice.

However, you have pinpointed exactly why the "problem is unpopular".
The "problem" is usually advanced by people with no clear understanding
about what is going on who have jumped to the conclusion that the
solution to their problem is to keep multiple versions on their
computer.

cgf

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Re: How do I get an old version of cygwin?

[Adrian Cox]

On Tue, 2005-01-18 at 09:51 -0500, Christopher Faylor wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2005 at 08:41:51AM +0000, Adrian Cox wrote:

> >Have you considered building a custom version of the latest Cygwin, and
> >putting it on their box in a different directory?  Trying to solve this
> >sort of problem is unpopular on this list, but my initial research
> >suggests that changing the values of CYGWIN_VERSION_DLL_IDENTIFIER and
> >CYGWIN_INFO_CYGNUS_REGISTRY_NAME should do the job.
> 
> You really shouldn't be giving out advice to people without
> understanding what the problems are.  You don't even know why this
> person needs to hve an older version of cygwin.  Immediately jumping to
> the conclusion that they just need to mess with things in the source and
> recompile is not good advice.

Because it is extremely common to distribute an application along with
the correct version of the support packages. If I distribute a Windows
application which uses perl, I want to distribute a tested working perl
interpreter in the same package. If I distribute a Windows application
using Cygwin, I want to distribute a tested working Cygwin DLL in the
same package. Disk space and bandwidth are so cheap they're almost free.
Testing takes time.

These people already have one tested and working application on an old
version of Cygwin. Now they want to run a second application validated
against a newer version of Cygwin. As far as I can see Cygwin has been
deliberately designed to make this difficult.

-- 
Adrian Cox <adrian@humboldt.co.uk>


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Re: How do I get an old version of cygwin?

[Christopher Faylor]

On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 03:50:17PM +0000, Adrian Cox wrote:
>On Tue, 2005-01-18 at 09:51 -0500, Christopher Faylor wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2005 at 08:41:51AM +0000, Adrian Cox wrote:
>
>> >Have you considered building a custom version of the latest Cygwin, and
>> >putting it on their box in a different directory?  Trying to solve this
>> >sort of problem is unpopular on this list, but my initial research
>> >suggests that changing the values of CYGWIN_VERSION_DLL_IDENTIFIER and
>> >CYGWIN_INFO_CYGNUS_REGISTRY_NAME should do the job.
>> 
>> You really shouldn't be giving out advice to people without
>> understanding what the problems are.  You don't even know why this
>> person needs to hve an older version of cygwin.  Immediately jumping to
>> the conclusion that they just need to mess with things in the source and
>> recompile is not good advice.
>
>Because it is extremely common to distribute an application along with
>the correct version of the support packages.

AFAICT, The OP merely wanted to be able to produce a binary that they knew
would work on their customer's system.

AFAIK, all that is required to do that is to link against the older DLL
or an older import library.

I'm only drawing assumptions from the limited information in the
messages but this certainly once again illustrates the point about
people who think they need multiple versions of cygwin on the system.

>If I distribute a Windows application which uses perl, I want to
>distribute a tested working perl interpreter in the same package.  If I
>distribute a Windows application using Cygwin, I want to distribute a
>tested working Cygwin DLL in the same package.  Disk space and
>bandwidth are so cheap they're almost free.  Testing takes time.

So, to extend this reasoning, if you want to release a linux application
which uses perl, you must either release the kernel along with your
application or you have to stop people from using your application on
linux kernels on which you haven't tested.

>These people already have one tested and working application on an old
>version of Cygwin.  Now they want to run a second application validated
>against a newer version of Cygwin.  As far as I can see Cygwin has been
>deliberately designed to make this difficult.

As far as I can tell, you are purposely avoiding educating yourself on
this subject so that you can continue to make broad statements like
this.

I guess it is getting close to the time to *plonk*.

cgf

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Re: How do I get an old version of cygwin?

[Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes]

On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 03:50:17PM +0000, Adrian Cox wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-01-18 at 09:51 -0500, Christopher Faylor wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 18, 2005 at 08:41:51AM +0000, Adrian Cox wrote:
> 
> > >Have you considered building a custom version of the latest Cygwin, and
> > >putting it on their box in a different directory?  Trying to solve this
> > >sort of problem is unpopular on this list, but my initial research
> > >suggests that changing the values of CYGWIN_VERSION_DLL_IDENTIFIER and
> > >CYGWIN_INFO_CYGNUS_REGISTRY_NAME should do the job.
> > 
> > You really shouldn't be giving out advice to people without
> > understanding what the problems are.  You don't even know why this
> > person needs to hve an older version of cygwin.  Immediately jumping to
> > the conclusion that they just need to mess with things in the source and
> > recompile is not good advice.
> 
> Because it is extremely common to distribute an application along with
> the correct version of the support packages. If I distribute a Windows
> application which uses perl, I want to distribute a tested working perl
> interpreter in the same package. If I distribute a Windows application
> using Cygwin, I want to distribute a tested working Cygwin DLL in the
> same package. Disk space and bandwidth are so cheap they're almost free.
> Testing takes time.
> 
> These people already have one tested and working application on an old
> version of Cygwin. Now they want to run a second application validated
> against a newer version of Cygwin. As far as I can see Cygwin has been
> deliberately designed to make this difficult.

Gets kind of old to hear this "debated" over and over again when it's
clear that the developers are not interested in the work involved.

Time for a cygwin-multi-versions (moderated?) list?  cygwin-licensing
was very successful at reducing the licensing traffic (both here and
there).

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Re: How do I get an old version of cygwin?

[Adrian Cox]

On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 10:06 -0800, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote:

> Gets kind of old to hear this "debated" over and over again when it's
> clear that the developers are not interested in the work involved.
> 
> Time for a cygwin-multi-versions (moderated?) list?  cygwin-licensing
> was very successful at reducing the licensing traffic (both here and
> there).

It would be useful if there was a forum for people who distribute
cygwin1.dll along with an application. I'm not very interested in the
whole Cygwin distribution, and I'm going to end up maintaining an
in-house fork of the code to solve my problems. I doubt I'm the only one
doing this, and I'll happily take it to a more appropriate list.

I'm even prepared to host the list myself if there's demand. If anybody
else does need to do this sort of thing, mail me off list. 

-- 
Adrian Cox <adrian@humboldt.co.uk>


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Re: How do I get an old version of cygwin?

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Jan 20 09:47, Adrian Cox wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 10:06 -0800, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote:
> 
> > Gets kind of old to hear this "debated" over and over again when it's
> > clear that the developers are not interested in the work involved.
> > 
> > Time for a cygwin-multi-versions (moderated?) list?  cygwin-licensing
> > was very successful at reducing the licensing traffic (both here and
> > there).
> 
> It would be useful if there was a forum for people who distribute
> cygwin1.dll along with an application. I'm not very interested in the
> whole Cygwin distribution, and I'm going to end up maintaining an
> in-house fork of the code to solve my problems. I doubt I'm the only one
> doing this, and I'll happily take it to a more appropriate list.

But you're aware that you have to release the DLL and depending applications
under the GPL, with all sources, aren't you?


Corinna

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Red Hat, Inc.

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Re: How do I get an old version of cygwin?

[Adrian Cox]

On Thu, 2005-01-20 at 11:07 +0100, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> On Jan 20 09:47, Adrian Cox wrote:
> > It would be useful if there was a forum for people who distribute
> > cygwin1.dll along with an application. I'm not very interested in the
> > whole Cygwin distribution, and I'm going to end up maintaining an
> > in-house fork of the code to solve my problems. I doubt I'm the only one
> > doing this, and I'll happily take it to a more appropriate list.
> 
> But you're aware that you have to release the DLL and depending applications
> under the GPL, with all sources, aren't you?

No problem at all. My application is a GCC cross-compiler used as a code
generator behind a Windows front-end.

-- 
Adrian Cox <adrian@humboldt.co.uk>


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RE: How do I get an old version of cygwin?

[Dave Korn]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of Adrian Cox
> Sent: 20 January 2005 09:48

> On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 10:06 -0800, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote:
> 
> > Gets kind of old to hear this "debated" over and over again 
> when it's
> > clear that the developers are not interested in the work involved.
> > 
> > Time for a cygwin-multi-versions (moderated?) list?  
> cygwin-licensing
> > was very successful at reducing the licensing traffic (both here and
> > there).
> 
> It would be useful if there was a forum for people who distribute
> cygwin1.dll along with an application. 

  cygwin-perverts at cygwin dot com  :-D

    cheers,
      DaveK
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Re: How do I get an old version of cygwin?

[Christopher Faylor]

On Thu, Jan 20, 2005 at 12:54:37PM -0000, Dave Korn wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of Adrian Cox
>> Sent: 20 January 2005 09:48
>
>> On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 10:06 -0800, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote:
>> 
>> > Gets kind of old to hear this "debated" over and over again 
>> when it's
>> > clear that the developers are not interested in the work involved.
>> > 
>> > Time for a cygwin-multi-versions (moderated?) list?  
>> cygwin-licensing
>> > was very successful at reducing the licensing traffic (both here and
>> > there).
>> 
>> It would be useful if there was a forum for people who distribute
>> cygwin1.dll along with an application. 
>
>  cygwin-perverts at cygwin dot com  :-D

Or "cygwin-we-just-barely-know-what-we-are-doing-but-that-does-not-stop-us-from-insisting at cygwin dot com"

cgf

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Re: How do I get an old version of cygwin?

[Christopher Faylor]

[I held off sending this for a few days because I thought the thread would
die down but then I thought that some of the content might be useful,
so here it is]
On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 10:06:46AM -0800, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote:
>Gets kind of old to hear this "debated" over and over again when it's
>clear that the developers are not interested in the work involved.

cygwin-licensing was designed to discuss valid concerns.

I don't remember a case of someone looking at the cygwin code and saying
"I have looked at all of the places where there are potential conflicts
between different versions of cygwin and here is how I would handle
them."

For future mailing list spelunkers -- you don't win points by:

- making suggestions without investigating how things are done now
and assuming that the developers probably missed simple things

- asking for increasingly detailed explanations about the problems so
that you don't have to actually look at the source

- implying that it's something that is simple to do but the developers
are just mean,

- asserting that vendors absolutely need this functionality so that they
can all put as many versions of cygwin1.dll on a system as necessary
without worrying about other installations

I don't know if anyone remembers but many years ago, when there was a
new cygwin release, you'd have to rebuild things because the name of the
DLL changed every time.  That ensured that multiple versions of cygwin
could exist on the same system.  It also ensured that programs compiled
with different versions would not understand each other's ttys and might
not be able to pass command line arguments to each other and that /foo
meant different things to different programs running on the same
computer.

There was also a splinter project formed which had, as it's goal,
allowing multiple versions of a cygwin-like dll to co-exist.  Look
for it on sourceforge.  I don't think it's very active these days.

The problem here is that I can't think of any way of reliably dealing
with this problem which would not force an unpleasant discipline on the
cygwin developers, requiring them to always be sure not to break the
"cygwin abi" which deals with the various ways that cygwin programs
communicate with each other.  In fact, I've made a couple of changes in
the latest snapshots which would have taken a lot more time if I had had
to make sure that cygwin 1.5.12 could cleanly interact with cygwin
1.5.13.

You *can* do some things to the DLL, such as those which are used by the
test suite which allow two versions to coexist without causing problems.
However, the test suite is careful to put a barrier in the middle between
processes which are being tested (thanks to DJ Delorie) so that there
are no problems with command-line argument passing or with cygheap
inheritance.  So, this is not a general solution.

If we were to implement some sort of "good enough" scheme, you can be
sure that it would elevate the amount of tech support that we received
here.  However, anyone who really wants to do something similar to the
test suite can use the same mechanism.  Just don't send your problem
reports here.  If you want to use this mechanism, then you should be
savvy enough to know how to deal with problems when they occur.

If someone really does have a brilliant idea on how to deal with this
problem, please demonstrate your brilliance with a patch.  If there
is an elegant solution to this problem then source code is the way
to demonstrate it.

cgf

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Re: How do I get an old version of cygwin?

[Steve Munson]

James M. Rogers wrote:

> So, what I need is to install the exact DLL and build tools, all at
the
> same time onto a box.  I am willing to do a checkout and build from
CVS
> if pointed to the directions on how to do this.

I happen to have the package files for cygwin 1.5.4 and associated build
tools, in case you need them. I copy all the old package files to a CD
as I install new versions, in case I need to go back to old versions
when new ones break something I need to use. Call me a pack rat. I might
even be able to help you make a setup.ini file to install them, as I
sometimes have to do this myself. I don't have old sources, though--only
binaries.

Let me know if you want them.

Steve Munson

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