Re: Contributing license information?

Re: Contributing license information?

[Luke Kendall]

Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> On Aug 19 11:09, Luke Kendall wrote:
>  
>> Soon, I will have prepared a list of the location of every license
>> file in every Cygwin package.  My motivation is to make it easy for
>> people to find the license information, if they need it.
>>
>> (Preparing this information has required a lot of work on my part,
>> so I would be happy if something could be done to make it easy to
>> keep the information up to date as packages are added and modified.)
>>
>> What is the best way to contribute the license-location information
>> so it can be integrated into Cygwin?
>>     
>
> Just create a new package for the distro which keeps the information
> and maintain it.  Somebody will have to keep the information up to date
> anyway.
>
>
> Corinna
>
>   

Is usr/share/doc/common-licenses/ within the "base-files" package, 
supposed to be the place where all license information is collected?  
Should I just use that instead of creating a new package?

Regards,

luke

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Re: Contributing license information?

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Oct 25 12:00, Luke Kendall wrote:
> Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> >On Aug 19 11:09, Luke Kendall wrote:
> >>Soon, I will have prepared a list of the location of every license
> >>file in every Cygwin package.  My motivation is to make it easy for
> >>people to find the license information, if they need it.
> >>
> >>(Preparing this information has required a lot of work on my part,
> >>so I would be happy if something could be done to make it easy to
> >>keep the information up to date as packages are added and modified.)
> >>
> >>What is the best way to contribute the license-location information
> >>so it can be integrated into Cygwin?
> >
> >Just create a new package for the distro which keeps the information
> >and maintain it.  Somebody will have to keep the information up to date
> >anyway.
> >
> >
> >Corinna
> >
> 
> Is usr/share/doc/common-licenses/ within the "base-files" package,
> supposed to be the place where all license information is collected?
> Should I just use that instead of creating a new package?

Sure, why not, if that's ok with David.  You can also rip out the
usr/share/doc/common-licenses directory from base-files and create
a licenses package with all licenses.  Just as you two want it.


Corinna

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Re: Contributing license information?

[David Sastre]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1618 bytes --]

On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 03:50:45PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> On Oct 25 12:00, Luke Kendall wrote:
> > Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> > >On Aug 19 11:09, Luke Kendall wrote:
> > >>Soon, I will have prepared a list of the location of every license
> > >>file in every Cygwin package.  My motivation is to make it easy for
> > >>people to find the license information, if they need it.
> > >>
> > >>(Preparing this information has required a lot of work on my part,
> > >>so I would be happy if something could be done to make it easy to
> > >>keep the information up to date as packages are added and modified.)
> > >>
> > >>What is the best way to contribute the license-location information
> > >>so it can be integrated into Cygwin?
> > >
> > >Just create a new package for the distro which keeps the information
> > >and maintain it.  Somebody will have to keep the information up to date
> > >anyway.
> > 
> > Is usr/share/doc/common-licenses/ within the "base-files" package,
> > supposed to be the place where all license information is collected?
> > Should I just use that instead of creating a new package?
> 
> Sure, why not, if that's ok with David.  You can also rip out the
> usr/share/doc/common-licenses directory from base-files and create
> a licenses package with all licenses.  Just as you two want it.

There's also another solution: include licensing information within
base-files, and co-mantain it. It's already under version control.
Luke, if it's ok with you, I'd go this way.

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Re: Contributing license information?

[Luke Kendall]

David Sastre wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 03:50:45PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
>   
>> On Oct 25 12:00, Luke Kendall wrote:
>>     
>>> Corinna Vinschen wrote:
>>>       
>>>> On Aug 19 11:09, Luke Kendall wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>> Soon, I will have prepared a list of the location of every license
>>>>> file in every Cygwin package.  My motivation is to make it easy for
>>>>> people to find the license information, if they need it.
>>>>>
>>>>> (Preparing this information has required a lot of work on my part,
>>>>> so I would be happy if something could be done to make it easy to
>>>>> keep the information up to date as packages are added and modified.)
>>>>>
>>>>> What is the best way to contribute the license-location information
>>>>> so it can be integrated into Cygwin?
>>>>>           
>>>> Just create a new package for the distro which keeps the information
>>>> and maintain it.  Somebody will have to keep the information up to date
>>>> anyway.
>>>>         
>>> Is usr/share/doc/common-licenses/ within the "base-files" package,
>>> supposed to be the place where all license information is collected?
>>> Should I just use that instead of creating a new package?
>>>       
>> Sure, why not, if that's ok with David.  You can also rip out the
>> usr/share/doc/common-licenses directory from base-files and create
>> a licenses package with all licenses.  Just as you two want it.
>>     
>
> There's also another solution: include licensing information within
> base-files, and co-mantain it. It's already under version control.
> Luke, if it's ok with you, I'd go this way.
>
>   
Maybe.

Before I agree, let me be frank and say that I would still prefer for 
the license information to be stored in the setup.ini information for 
each package in a "licenses:" section, and I would love to see the 
Cygwin package submission process to include the adding of the license 
information as an explicit step.

But, if that's not possible/acceptable, then I think the above proposal 
is a reasonable workaround, even though it means more work overall, 
especially ongoing work.

I also don't look forward to maintaining the information, but I'm 
prepared to wait and see how much work it is.  If I can automate the 
effort required for updates, then that would be a good result.

So, I agree with Dave's suggestion.  Should we try to clarify what we 
mean by "licensing information"?
I think it includes:

1) (Each version of) the licenses themselves (in whatever form they are 
provided: .txt, PDF, ...)
2) Information about what licenses are used in each package (including 
which version of the license)
3) To achieve (2), that means we have to have some way (a name) to refer 
to each license.

Let's also think about how and when the license information gets updated.

It may need updating when any package is updated, since it is possible 
that the license can change as part of a version change.  (The change 
could be a change to the wording, or it could be a shift to a new 
version of a license, or the inclusion of other sub-components with 
their own license, etc. etc.)

But that means "base-files" may need to change on a daily basis.  There 
will probably be a time lag in updating the license info if it is not 
updated at the same time that setup.ini is updated with the new 
packages.  Is setup.ini re-created automatically when a package is updated?

The problem gets more complex if you consider that setup.ini can refer 
to multiple package versions, and there may have been license changes 
between the versions.

Those are further reasons I think it's more elegant to add the license 
info to the setup.ini file.  But is the setup.ini creation currently 
automated?  If so there will be some occasions where the license info 
can't be automatically updated (and will require some human thought  to 
fill in details).

What do you think?

Regards,

luke

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Re: Contributing license information?

[Christopher Faylor]

On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 04:27:17PM +1100, Luke Kendall wrote:
>Those are further reasons I think it's more elegant to add the license 
>info to the setup.ini file.  But is the setup.ini creation currently 
>automated?  If so there will be some occasions where the license info 
>can't be automatically updated (and will require some human thought  to 
>fill in details).
>
>What do you think?

I'm not interested in trying to figure out an automated way to add
a new field to setup.ini and I'm not interested in modifying setup.exe
to deal with the new field.

One of the above is a showstopper so you're going to have to do what
others have suggested and put the information in the packages.

cgf

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Re: Contributing license information?

[Luke Kendall]

Christopher Faylor wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 04:27:17PM +1100, Luke Kendall wrote:
>   
>> Those are further reasons I think it's more elegant to add the license 
>> info to the setup.ini file.  But is the setup.ini creation currently 
>> automated?  If so there will be some occasions where the license info 
>> can't be automatically updated (and will require some human thought  to 
>> fill in details).
>>
>> What do you think?
>>     
>
> I'm not interested in trying to figure out an automated way to add
> a new field to setup.ini 

I don't know enough about setup.ini to understand why that's hard (my 
script can already do it), but I accept it.

> and I'm not interested in modifying setup.exe
> to deal with the new field.
>
>   

Although it sounds easy to me (since the info's not for setup and so 
setup should ignore the extra info), I don't know how setup's written, 
and you're the boss, so what you say, goes!

> One of the above is a showstopper so you're going to have to do what
> others have suggested and put the information in the packages.
>
> cgf
>
>   

Okay, that's blunt but quite clear.  So we'll go ahead with the other 
approach.

luke

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>   


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Contributing license information?

[Luke Kendall]

Soon, I will have prepared a list of the location of every license file 
in every Cygwin package.  My motivation is to make it easy for people to 
find the license information, if they need it.

(Preparing this information has required a lot of work on my part, so I 
would be happy if something could be done to make it easy to keep the 
information up to date as packages are added and modified.)

What is the best way to contribute the license-location information so 
it can be integrated into Cygwin?  I have *imagined* that it would be by 
adding a field to every package in setup.ini, something like:

license: "relative-path-to-first-license
relative-path-to-another-license
...
relative-path-to-last-license"

That seems neat to me, since the information is per-package, and AFAIK 
per-package information is stored only in sestup.ini.

If the right way is to modify setup.ini to hold the license info, would 
the new setup.ini require a new setup.exe, or does setup.exe ignore 
information in setup.ini that it doesn't know about?

But I gather that setup.ini is created from other data sources via a 
program called "upset". 

Anyway, what is the right way to contribute this information? 

Regards,

luke

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Re: Contributing license information?

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Aug 19 11:09, Luke Kendall wrote:
> Soon, I will have prepared a list of the location of every license
> file in every Cygwin package.  My motivation is to make it easy for
> people to find the license information, if they need it.
> 
> (Preparing this information has required a lot of work on my part,
> so I would be happy if something could be done to make it easy to
> keep the information up to date as packages are added and modified.)
> 
> What is the best way to contribute the license-location information
> so it can be integrated into Cygwin?

Just create a new package for the distro which keeps the information
and maintain it.  Somebody will have to keep the information up to date
anyway.


Corinna

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Red Hat

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Re: Contributing license information?

[Luke Kendall]

Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> On Aug 19 11:09, Luke Kendall wrote:
>   
>> Soon, I will have prepared a list of the location of every license
>> file in every Cygwin package.  My motivation is to make it easy for
>> people to find the license information, if they need it.
>>
>> (Preparing this information has required a lot of work on my part,
>> so I would be happy if something could be done to make it easy to
>> keep the information up to date as packages are added and modified.)
>>
>> What is the best way to contribute the license-location information
>> so it can be integrated into Cygwin?
>>     
>
> Just create a new package for the distro which keeps the information
> and maintain it.  Somebody will have to keep the information up to date
> anyway.
>
>
> Corinna
>
>   

Okay.  At some stage, then, I'll look into how to create a Cygwin package.

luke


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Re: Contributing license information?

[Luke Kendall]

Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> On Aug 19 11:09, Luke Kendall wrote:
>   
>> Soon, I will have prepared a list of the location of every license
>> file in every Cygwin package.  My motivation is to make it easy for
>> people to find the license information, if they need it.
>>
>> (Preparing this information has required a lot of work on my part,
>> so I would be happy if something could be done to make it easy to
>> keep the information up to date as packages are added and modified.)
>>
>> What is the best way to contribute the license-location information
>> so it can be integrated into Cygwin?
>>     
>
> Just create a new package for the distro which keeps the information
> and maintain it.  Somebody will have to keep the information up to date
> anyway.
>
>
> Corinna
>
>   

Is usr/share/doc/common-licenses/ within the "base-files" package, 
supposed to be the place where all license information is collected?  
Should I just use that?

I only today noticed 
http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-apps/2004-06/msg00275.html

I believe usr/share/doc/common-licenses/ lists many licenses that are 
not used in the base-files package.  I say that because it contains over 
a dozen licenses, even though base-files otherwise just contains a few 
shell scripts and skeleton files from etc/{defaults,postinstall, preremove}.

What do you think?

Regards,

luke

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Re: Contributing license information?

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Oct 20 14:48, Luke Kendall wrote:
> Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> >On Aug 19 11:09, Luke Kendall wrote:
> >>Soon, I will have prepared a list of the location of every license
> >>file in every Cygwin package.  My motivation is to make it easy for
> >>people to find the license information, if they need it.
> >>
> >>(Preparing this information has required a lot of work on my part,
> >>so I would be happy if something could be done to make it easy to
> >>keep the information up to date as packages are added and modified.)
> >>
> >>What is the best way to contribute the license-location information
> >>so it can be integrated into Cygwin?
> >
> >Just create a new package for the distro which keeps the information
> >and maintain it.  Somebody will have to keep the information up to date
> >anyway.
> >
> >
> >Corinna
> >
> 
> Is usr/share/doc/common-licenses/ within the "base-files" package,
> supposed to be the place where all license information is collected?
> Should I just use that?

It's a good place for this, yes.

> I only today noticed
> http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-apps/2004-06/msg00275.html
> 
> I believe usr/share/doc/common-licenses/ lists many licenses that
> are not used in the base-files package.

That was not the intention.  The intention was to collect licenses
used by the sum of Cygwin distro packages.


Corinna

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Re: Contributing license information?

[Corinna Vinschen]

FYI, I removed the cygwin-licensing list from the recipient list.

Please keep this thread on the cygwin list, unless you provide
a new package, in which case cygwin-apps is the appropriate mailing
list to discuss this further.

On Oct 20 09:38, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> On Oct 20 14:48, Luke Kendall wrote:
> > Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> > >On Aug 19 11:09, Luke Kendall wrote:
> > >>Soon, I will have prepared a list of the location of every license
> > >>file in every Cygwin package.  My motivation is to make it easy for
> > >>people to find the license information, if they need it.
> > >>
> > >>(Preparing this information has required a lot of work on my part,
> > >>so I would be happy if something could be done to make it easy to
> > >>keep the information up to date as packages are added and modified.)
> > >>
> > >>What is the best way to contribute the license-location information
> > >>so it can be integrated into Cygwin?
> > >
> > >Just create a new package for the distro which keeps the information
> > >and maintain it.  Somebody will have to keep the information up to date
> > >anyway.
> > >
> > >
> > >Corinna
> > >
> > 
> > Is usr/share/doc/common-licenses/ within the "base-files" package,
> > supposed to be the place where all license information is collected?
> > Should I just use that?
> 
> It's a good place for this, yes.
> 
> > I only today noticed
> > http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-apps/2004-06/msg00275.html
> > 
> > I believe usr/share/doc/common-licenses/ lists many licenses that
> > are not used in the base-files package.
> 
> That was not the intention.  The intention was to collect licenses
> used by the sum of Cygwin distro packages.


Corinna

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Re: Contributing license information?

[Luke Kendall]

Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> On Oct 20 14:48, Luke Kendall wrote:
>   
>> Corinna Vinschen wrote:
>>     
>>> On Aug 19 11:09, Luke Kendall wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Soon, I will have prepared a list of the location of every license
>>>> file in every Cygwin package.  My motivation is to make it easy for
>>>> people to find the license information, if they need it.
>>>>
>>>> (Preparing this information has required a lot of work on my part,
>>>> so I would be happy if something could be done to make it easy to
>>>> keep the information up to date as packages are added and modified.)
>>>>
>>>> What is the best way to contribute the license-location information
>>>> so it can be integrated into Cygwin?
>>>>         
>>> Just create a new package for the distro which keeps the information
>>> and maintain it.  Somebody will have to keep the information up to date
>>> anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>> Corinna
>>>
>>>       
>> Is usr/share/doc/common-licenses/ within the "base-files" package,
>> supposed to be the place where all license information is collected?
>> Should I just use that?
>>     
>
> It's a good place for this, yes.
>
>   
>> I only today noticed
>> http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-apps/2004-06/msg00275.html
>>
>> I believe usr/share/doc/common-licenses/ lists many licenses that
>> are not used in the base-files package.
>>     
>
> That was not the intention.  The intention was to collect licenses
> used by the sum of Cygwin distro packages.
>
>   

Okay.  So in reply to your later email, I will plan to provide the added 
information about licenses into the base-files package, instead of 
creating a new one.  (I hope I have understood you correctly!)

Can I ask a related question: for the few shell scripts and /etc files 
provided in base-files: what license are they under?  The package 
contains lots of licenses, as we've been discussing, but I couldn't find 
any indication of which license applies to the actual non-license files 
in base-files itself!

Regards,

luke

> Corinna
>
>   


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Re: Contributing license information?

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Oct 21 13:02, Luke Kendall wrote:
> Can I ask a related question: for the few shell scripts and /etc
> files provided in base-files: what license are they under?  The
> package contains lots of licenses, as we've been discussing, but I
> couldn't find any indication of which license applies to the actual
> non-license files in base-files itself!

Isn't that hard on the verge of nit-picking?  These are simple scripts.
Their Linux brothers and sisters are under PD so I think it makes much
sense to define the Cygwin files as PD, too.

David, that's ok with you?


Corinna

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Re: Contributing license information?

[David Sastre]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1340 bytes --]

On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 10:59:01AM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> On Oct 21 13:02, Luke Kendall wrote:
> > Can I ask a related question: for the few shell scripts and /etc
> > files provided in base-files: what license are they under?  The
> > package contains lots of licenses, as we've been discussing, but I
> > couldn't find any indication of which license applies to the actual
> > non-license files in base-files itself!
> 
> Isn't that hard on the verge of nit-picking?  These are simple scripts.
> Their Linux brothers and sisters are under PD so I think it makes much
> sense to define the Cygwin files as PD, too.
> 
> David, that's ok with you?

Yes, it's ok for me :)

Also, it's possible to specifically mention it in the header of every
shellscript in base-files, maybe using CC0[1][2]?

CC0 would then be included under /usr/share/doc/common-licenses.

Please note IANAL, i.e., I'm not aware of possible uncompatibilities
of CC0 with the rest of the project's licensing.

(Generally speaking, it's an interesting topic, BTW.[3])

[1]https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#CC0
[2]https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/legalcode
[3]https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Public_domain
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Re: Contributing license information?

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Oct 21 18:41, David Sastre wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 10:59:01AM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> > On Oct 21 13:02, Luke Kendall wrote:
> > > Can I ask a related question: for the few shell scripts and /etc
> > > files provided in base-files: what license are they under?  The
> > > package contains lots of licenses, as we've been discussing, but I
> > > couldn't find any indication of which license applies to the actual
> > > non-license files in base-files itself!
> > 
> > Isn't that hard on the verge of nit-picking?  These are simple scripts.
> > Their Linux brothers and sisters are under PD so I think it makes much
> > sense to define the Cygwin files as PD, too.
> > 
> > David, that's ok with you?
> 
> Yes, it's ok for me :)
> 
> Also, it's possible to specifically mention it in the header of every
> shellscript in base-files, maybe using CC0[1][2]?
> 
> CC0 would then be included under /usr/share/doc/common-licenses.

Sounds good.


Corinna

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Cygwin Project Co-Leader          cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
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