mintty scroll to bottom

mintty scroll to bottom

[Lemke, Michael SZ/HZA-ZSW]

What is the mintty equivalent to rxvt/xterm's

-si|+si
              Turn on/off scroll-to-bottom on TTY output inhibit;
              resource scrollTtyOutput has opposite effect.

I'd like to have it turned on, i.e., scroll to bottom whenever 
there is new output.  Couldn't find anything for mintty and it
seems mintty doesn't scroll.

Thanks,
Michael


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Re: mintty scroll to bottom

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Feb 29 13:46, Lemke, Michael  SZ/HZA-ZSW wrote:
> What is the mintty equivalent to rxvt/xterm's
> 
> -si|+si
>               Turn on/off scroll-to-bottom on TTY output inhibit;
>               resource scrollTtyOutput has opposite effect.
> 
> I'd like to have it turned on, i.e., scroll to bottom whenever 
> there is new output.  Couldn't find anything for mintty and it
> seems mintty doesn't scroll.

Maybe you should ask this on the mintty mailing list mintty-discuss AT
googlegroups DOT com


Corinna

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Re: mintty scroll to bottom

[Andy Koppe]

On 1 March 2012 10:19, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> On Feb 29 13:46, Lemke, Michael  SZ/HZA-ZSW wrote:
>> What is the mintty equivalent to rxvt/xterm's
>>
>> -si|+si
>>               Turn on/off scroll-to-bottom on TTY output inhibit;
>>               resource scrollTtyOutput has opposite effect.
>>
>> I'd like to have it turned on, i.e., scroll to bottom whenever
>> there is new output.  Couldn't find anything for mintty and it
>> seems mintty doesn't scroll.
>
> Maybe you should ask this on the mintty mailing list mintty-discuss AT
> googlegroups DOT com

I don't mind mintty questions being sent here (unless of course
they're not relevant to Cygwin's mintty), not least because there's
more of a chance of someone else answering them here.

Andy

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Re: mintty scroll to bottom

[Andy Koppe]

On 29 February 2012 12:46, Lemke, Michael  SZ/HZA-ZSW wrote:
> What is the mintty equivalent to rxvt/xterm's
>
> -si|+si
>              Turn on/off scroll-to-bottom on TTY output inhibit;
>              resource scrollTtyOutput has opposite effect.

There's no such option. Shift+End will get you back to the current
output after looking at something in the scrollback, as will any
keypress that sends something to the terminal.

Andy

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Re: mintty scroll to bottom

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Mar  1 20:43, Andy Koppe wrote:
> On 29 February 2012 12:46, Lemke, Michael  SZ/HZA-ZSW wrote:
> > What is the mintty equivalent to rxvt/xterm's
> >
> > -si|+si
> >              Turn on/off scroll-to-bottom on TTY output inhibit;
> >              resource scrollTtyOutput has opposite effect.
> 
> There's no such option. Shift+End will get you back to the current
> output after looking at something in the scrollback, as will any
> keypress that sends something to the terminal.

Any chance to implement this?  Automatic scroll-to-bottom is a useful
feature, IMHO.  SHTDI? ;)


Corinna

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Re: mintty scroll to bottom

[Andy Koppe]

On 2 March 2012 08:41, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> On Mar  1 20:43, Andy Koppe wrote:
>> On 29 February 2012 12:46, Lemke, Michael  SZ/HZA-ZSW wrote:
>> > What is the mintty equivalent to rxvt/xterm's
>> >
>> > -si|+si
>> >              Turn on/off scroll-to-bottom on TTY output inhibit;
>> >              resource scrollTtyOutput has opposite effect.
>>
>> There's no such option. Shift+End will get you back to the current
>> output after looking at something in the scrollback, as will any
>> keypress that sends something to the terminal.
>
> Any chance to implement this?  Automatic scroll-to-bottom is a useful
> feature, IMHO.

I disagree. The point of being able to scroll back to earlier output
is to read and perhaps copy something. When doing that, having the
scrollback jump back to the bottom without the user asking for it is
rather unhelpful. The Windows console does this, and I always found it
really frustrating.

Andy

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Re: mintty scroll to bottom

[Ryan Johnson]

On 02/03/2012 3:20 PM, Andy Koppe wrote:
> On 2 March 2012 08:41, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
>> On Mar  1 20:43, Andy Koppe wrote:
>>> On 29 February 2012 12:46, Lemke, Michael  SZ/HZA-ZSW wrote:
>>>> What is the mintty equivalent to rxvt/xterm's
>>>>
>>>> -si|+si
>>>>               Turn on/off scroll-to-bottom on TTY output inhibit;
>>>>               resource scrollTtyOutput has opposite effect.
>>> There's no such option. Shift+End will get you back to the current
>>> output after looking at something in the scrollback, as will any
>>> keypress that sends something to the terminal.
>> Any chance to implement this?  Automatic scroll-to-bottom is a useful
>> feature, IMHO.
> I disagree. The point of being able to scroll back to earlier output
> is to read and perhaps copy something. When doing that, having the
> scrollback jump back to the bottom without the user asking for it is
> rather unhelpful. The Windows console does this, and I always found it
> really frustrating.
Heh. Frustration seconded. Trying to highlight a moving target is 
especially annoying.

My workaround (for reading, at least) is to drag the scrollbar manually 
upward with the mouse... once finished reading I just "drag" it a couple 
inches to the side so Windows gives up and reverts to the bar's original 
at-bottom position. Even then, though, a spam-happy terminal can be hard 
to pin down because the scrollpane grows so fast.

I'd be interested to hear of a situation where scroll-to-bottom is 
useful and Shift+End/keypress isn't satisfactory.

BTW, what happens in mintty if the part of the output you're looking at 
falls out of the scrollback buffer while you're looking at it? Does it 
start scrolling at line rate but 5000 lines back in time?

Ryan


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Re: mintty scroll to bottom

[Andy Koppe]

On 2 March 2012 20:39, Ryan Johnson wrote:
> BTW, what happens in mintty if the part of the output you're looking at
> falls out of the scrollback buffer while you're looking at it? Does it start
> scrolling at line rate but 5000 lines back in time?

'fraid so. Obviously, increasing the scrollback size can reduce the
chances of this happening. Scrollback storage is reasonably efficient,
so setting it to a million or even higher shouldn't be a problem with
today's RAM sizes.

Andy

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Re: mintty scroll to bottom

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Mar  2 20:20, Andy Koppe wrote:
> On 2 March 2012 08:41, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> > On Mar  1 20:43, Andy Koppe wrote:
> >> On 29 February 2012 12:46, Lemke, Michael  SZ/HZA-ZSW wrote:
> >> > What is the mintty equivalent to rxvt/xterm's
> >> >
> >> > -si|+si
> >> >              Turn on/off scroll-to-bottom on TTY output inhibit;
> >> >              resource scrollTtyOutput has opposite effect.
> >>
> >> There's no such option. Shift+End will get you back to the current
> >> output after looking at something in the scrollback, as will any
> >> keypress that sends something to the terminal.
> >
> > Any chance to implement this?  Automatic scroll-to-bottom is a useful
> > feature, IMHO.
> 
> I disagree. The point of being able to scroll back to earlier output
> is to read and perhaps copy something. When doing that, having the
> scrollback jump back to the bottom without the user asking for it is
> rather unhelpful. The Windows console does this, and I always found it
> really frustrating.

THat's why this is an option in xterm.  Every use has another idea how
the terminal should behave in this regard, I guess.


Corinna

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RE: mintty scroll to bottom

[Lemke, Michael SZ/HZA-ZSW]

On March 04, 2012 12:51 PM, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
>On Mar  2 20:20, Andy Koppe wrote:
>> On 2 March 2012 08:41, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
>> > On Mar  1 20:43, Andy Koppe wrote:
>> >> On 29 February 2012 12:46, Lemke, Michael  SZ/HZA-ZSW wrote:
>> >> > What is the mintty equivalent to rxvt/xterm's
>> >> >
>> >> > -si|+si
>> >> >              Turn on/off scroll-to-bottom on TTY output inhibit;
>> >> >              resource scrollTtyOutput has opposite effect.
>> >>
>> >> There's no such option. Shift+End will get you back to the current
>> >> output after looking at something in the scrollback, as will any
>> >> keypress that sends something to the terminal.
>> >
>> > Any chance to implement this?  Automatic scroll-to-bottom is a useful
>> > feature, IMHO.
>> 
>> I disagree. The point of being able to scroll back to earlier output
>> is to read and perhaps copy something. When doing that, having the
>> scrollback jump back to the bottom without the user asking for it is
>> rather unhelpful. The Windows console does this, and I always found it
>> really frustrating.
>
>THat's why this is an option in xterm.  Every use has another idea how
>the terminal should behave in this regard, I guess.

I'd also appreciate very much implementing that option.  mintty is
promoted here as a replacement for rxvt but obviously lacks a functionality
I've come to depend on.  My use case is a terminal window in which I don't 
do much but where a lot of background jobs regularly produce output.  
A quick glance at the window tells me the current status of those jobs.
Not with mintty anymore.  Same with the classic use case tail -f logfile.

Thanks,
Michael

Re: mintty scroll to bottom

[Ryan Johnson]

On 05/03/2012 5:05 AM, Lemke, Michael SZ/HZA-ZSW wrote:
> On March 04, 2012 12:51 PM, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
>> On Mar  2 20:20, Andy Koppe wrote:
>>> On 2 March 2012 08:41, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
>>>> On Mar  1 20:43, Andy Koppe wrote:
>>>>> On 29 February 2012 12:46, Lemke, Michael  SZ/HZA-ZSW wrote:
>>>>>> What is the mintty equivalent to rxvt/xterm's
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -si|+si
>>>>>>               Turn on/off scroll-to-bottom on TTY output inhibit;
>>>>>>               resource scrollTtyOutput has opposite effect.
>>>>> There's no such option. Shift+End will get you back to the current
>>>>> output after looking at something in the scrollback, as will any
>>>>> keypress that sends something to the terminal.
>>>> Any chance to implement this?  Automatic scroll-to-bottom is a useful
>>>> feature, IMHO.
>>> I disagree. The point of being able to scroll back to earlier output
>>> is to read and perhaps copy something. When doing that, having the
>>> scrollback jump back to the bottom without the user asking for it is
>>> rather unhelpful. The Windows console does this, and I always found it
>>> really frustrating.
>> THat's why this is an option in xterm.  Every use has another idea how
>> the terminal should behave in this regard, I guess.
> I'd also appreciate very much implementing that option.  mintty is
> promoted here as a replacement for rxvt but obviously lacks a functionality
> I've come to depend on.  My use case is a terminal window in which I don't
> do much but where a lot of background jobs regularly produce output.
> A quick glance at the window tells me the current status of those jobs.
> Not with mintty anymore.  Same with the classic use case tail -f logfile.
What you describe above sounds more like mintty allowing a visible "end 
of output" to scroll off the bottom without following it, a behavior 
I've never observed and which would arguably be a bug.

When I fire up something that produces copious output (gcc bootstrap, 
compile emacs, etc.) mintty scrolls to track end-of-output unless I 
purposefully scroll upward (in which case I'd prefer it to stay put long 
enough to read/copy the text rather than immediately jumping me back to 
end-of-output). Once the scrollbar is set back to bottom, it again 
tracks end-of-output. This can easily be checked with the following in 
mintty+bash:

$ for ((i=0; ; i=i+1)); do sleep .5; echo $i; done

Am I missing something? Or do your background jobs just produce output 
really infrequently compared to 'make all'? The latter is the only way I 
can see "reading stuff from the past" and "scroll-to-bottom" coexisting 
peacefully (because then you wouldn't [usually] get interrupted while 
reading, and it would be easy to miss the arrival of new output if the 
terminal isn't tracking it). But then, my long-running stuff always 
lives in a screen session anyway, where the terminal's scroll-to-bottom 
behavior is moot.

Disclaimer: I'm really not bothered if the option exists (disabled by 
default) in mintty, I just can't imagine a use case where it would be 
helpful and hoped those asking for the feature might be able to 
enlighten me (I've changed habits several times in the past after 
hearing peoples' answers to questions like this).

Ryan


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Re: mintty scroll to bottom

[Andrey Repin]

Greetings, Ryan Johnson!

> Or do your background jobs just produce output really infrequently compared to 'make all'?

This is what came to my mind, when I saw your discussion.
I'm not using "Reset scrollback on display activity" feature (in PuTTY)
myself, but I see several use cases, where I could've had better results if
it would have been enabled.


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Andrey Repin (anrdaemon@freemail.ru) 05.03.2012, <22:19>

Sorry for my terrible english...


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RE: mintty scroll to bottom

[Lemke, Michael SZ/HZA-ZSW]

On March 05, 2012 6:26 PM Ryan Johnson wrote:
>On 05/03/2012 5:05 AM, Lemke, Michael SZ/HZA-ZSW wrote:
>> On March 04, 2012 12:51 PM, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
>>> On Mar  2 20:20, Andy Koppe wrote:
>>>> On 2 March 2012 08:41, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
>>>>> On Mar  1 20:43, Andy Koppe wrote:
>>>>>> On 29 February 2012 12:46, Lemke, Michael  SZ/HZA-ZSW wrote:
>>>>>>> What is the mintty equivalent to rxvt/xterm's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -si|+si
>>>>>>>               Turn on/off scroll-to-bottom on TTY output inhibit;
>>>>>>>               resource scrollTtyOutput has opposite effect.
>>>>>> There's no such option. Shift+End will get you back to the current
>>>>>> output after looking at something in the scrollback, as will any
>>>>>> keypress that sends something to the terminal.
>>>>> Any chance to implement this?  Automatic scroll-to-bottom is a useful
>>>>> feature, IMHO.
>>>> I disagree. The point of being able to scroll back to earlier output
>>>> is to read and perhaps copy something. When doing that, having the
>>>> scrollback jump back to the bottom without the user asking for it is
>>>> rather unhelpful. The Windows console does this, and I always found it
>>>> really frustrating.
>>> THat's why this is an option in xterm.  Every use has another idea how
>>> the terminal should behave in this regard, I guess.
>> I'd also appreciate very much implementing that option.  mintty is
>> promoted here as a replacement for rxvt but obviously lacks a functionality
>> I've come to depend on.  My use case is a terminal window in which I don't
>> do much but where a lot of background jobs regularly produce output.
>> A quick glance at the window tells me the current status of those jobs.
>> Not with mintty anymore.  Same with the classic use case tail -f logfile.
>What you describe above sounds more like mintty allowing a visible "end 
>of output" to scroll off the bottom without following it, a behavior 
>I've never observed and which would arguably be a bug.

That's not what I said.

>
>When I fire up something that produces copious output (gcc bootstrap, 
>compile emacs, etc.) mintty scrolls to track end-of-output unless I 
>purposefully scroll upward 

Right, same here.  Turning on scroll-to-bottom would change that.  It
scrolls to bottom immediately.

>(in which case I'd prefer it to stay put long 
>enough to read/copy the text rather than immediately jumping me back to 
>end-of-output). 

That depends on what I am doing in such a terminal.  I might have a
tail -f /var/log/messages & in that session on a system with low 
syslog activity.  I want to be notified immediately if there is 
output and don't mind being interrupted.

>Once the scrollbar is set back to bottom, it again 
>tracks end-of-output. 

Correct.  And that's the step I want to skip.  The si-option does
exactly that.

>
>Am I missing something? Or do your background jobs just produce output 
>really infrequently compared to 'make all'?

In this case yes, but I also like scroll-to-bottom if there's more output.

>The latter is the only way I 
>can see "reading stuff from the past" and "scroll-to-bottom" coexisting 
>peacefully 

They usually won't.  That’s why this should be an option and not the 
default.

Michael

Re: mintty scroll to bottom

[David Sastre Medina]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3793 bytes --]

On Mon, Mar 05, 2012 at 07:57:29PM +0100, Lemke, Michael  SZ/HZA-ZSW wrote:
> On March 05, 2012 6:26 PM Ryan Johnson wrote:
> >On 05/03/2012 5:05 AM, Lemke, Michael SZ/HZA-ZSW wrote:
> >> On March 04, 2012 12:51 PM, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> >>> On Mar  2 20:20, Andy Koppe wrote:
> >>>> On 2 March 2012 08:41, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> >>>>> On Mar  1 20:43, Andy Koppe wrote:
> >>>>>> On 29 February 2012 12:46, Lemke, Michael  SZ/HZA-ZSW wrote:
> >>>>>>> What is the mintty equivalent to rxvt/xterm's
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -si|+si
> >>>>>>>               Turn on/off scroll-to-bottom on TTY output inhibit;
> >>>>>>>               resource scrollTtyOutput has opposite effect.
> >>>>>> There's no such option. Shift+End will get you back to the current
> >>>>>> output after looking at something in the scrollback, as will any
> >>>>>> keypress that sends something to the terminal.
> >>>>> Any chance to implement this?  Automatic scroll-to-bottom is a useful
> >>>>> feature, IMHO.
> >>>> I disagree. The point of being able to scroll back to earlier output
> >>>> is to read and perhaps copy something. When doing that, having the
> >>>> scrollback jump back to the bottom without the user asking for it is
> >>>> rather unhelpful. The Windows console does this, and I always found it
> >>>> really frustrating.
> >>> THat's why this is an option in xterm.  Every use has another idea how
> >>> the terminal should behave in this regard, I guess.
> >> I'd also appreciate very much implementing that option.  mintty is
> >> promoted here as a replacement for rxvt but obviously lacks a functionality
> >> I've come to depend on.  My use case is a terminal window in which I don't
> >> do much but where a lot of background jobs regularly produce output.
> >> A quick glance at the window tells me the current status of those jobs.
> >> Not with mintty anymore.  Same with the classic use case tail -f logfile.
> >What you describe above sounds more like mintty allowing a visible "end 
> >of output" to scroll off the bottom without following it, a behavior 
> >I've never observed and which would arguably be a bug.
> 
> That's not what I said.
> 
> >
> >When I fire up something that produces copious output (gcc bootstrap, 
> >compile emacs, etc.) mintty scrolls to track end-of-output unless I 
> >purposefully scroll upward 
> 
> Right, same here.  Turning on scroll-to-bottom would change that.  It
> scrolls to bottom immediately.
> 
> >(in which case I'd prefer it to stay put long 
> >enough to read/copy the text rather than immediately jumping me back to 
> >end-of-output). 
> 
> That depends on what I am doing in such a terminal.  I might have a
> tail -f /var/log/messages & in that session on a system with low 
> syslog activity.  I want to be notified immediately if there is 
> output and don't mind being interrupted.
> 
> >Once the scrollbar is set back to bottom, it again 
> >tracks end-of-output. 
> 
> Correct.  And that's the step I want to skip.  The si-option does
> exactly that.
> 
> >
> >Am I missing something? Or do your background jobs just produce output 
> >really infrequently compared to 'make all'?
> 
> In this case yes, but I also like scroll-to-bottom if there's more output.
> 
> >The latter is the only way I 
> >can see "reading stuff from the past" and "scroll-to-bottom" coexisting 
> >peacefully 
> 
> They usually won't.  That’s why this should be an option and not the 
> default.

Most of the behaviour discussed in this thread can be achieved or
emulated using screen (notification on activity, scroll and output
logging at will, etc). Might be useful to take a look at it.

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