* [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support @ 2021-10-26 20:55 Corinna Vinschen 2021-10-26 22:01 ` [QUAR] " Eliot Moss ` (6 more replies) 0 siblings, 7 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Corinna Vinschen @ 2021-10-26 20:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Hi folks, The upcoming version 3.3.0 is the last version officially supporting Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008. The next major release 3.4.0 will be released in 2022 and will be the last one officially supporting Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows Server 2008 R2, and Windows Server 2012. We're also planning to drop Support for the 32 bit release of Cygwin in 2022, thus Cygwin 3.4.0 won't come in 32 bit anymore, and the package maintainers won't have to update 32 bit packages anymore. If you're still running Cygwin under WOW64, consider to move to 64 bit in the next couple of months. Corinna ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [QUAR] [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-26 20:55 [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support Corinna Vinschen @ 2021-10-26 22:01 ` Eliot Moss 2021-10-26 22:52 ` Michel LaBarre ` (5 subsequent siblings) 6 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Eliot Moss @ 2021-10-26 22:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Corinna Vinschen via Cygwin Thank you for your many efforts, Corinna! This seems very reasonable to me! Best wishes - Eliot Moss ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* RE: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-26 20:55 [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support Corinna Vinschen 2021-10-26 22:01 ` [QUAR] " Eliot Moss @ 2021-10-26 22:52 ` Michel LaBarre 2021-10-27 4:29 ` Peter A. Castro 2021-10-27 8:33 ` Corinna Vinschen 2021-10-27 0:24 ` Takashi Yano ` (4 subsequent siblings) 6 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Michel LaBarre @ 2021-10-26 22:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin; +Cc: 'Corinna Vinschen' Corinna , thank you for the heads up regarding subsequent updates wrt Window 7. Would it be possible to create a short "how-to" for installing the most recently "known-to-work-with-Windows-7" version of Cygwin (presuming that old versions remain accessible indefinitely...). Alternately, how one can download a repository now that is compatible with Windows 7 and useable for installing Cygwin in anticipation of the upcoming loss of support. I have old machines that cannot be updated to Windows 10 (hybrid graphics hardware) that I use for background activities that I may someday need to rebuild. Thank you very much for all your efforts. Michel -----Original Message----- From: Cygwin [mailto:cygwin-bounces+michel.labarre=rogers.com@cygwin.com] On Behalf Of Corinna Vinschen via Cygwin Sent: October 26, 2021 4:55 PM To: cygwin@cygwin.com Cc: Corinna Vinschen Subject: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support Hi folks, The upcoming version 3.3.0 is the last version officially supporting Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008. The next major release 3.4.0 will be released in 2022 and will be the last one officially supporting Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows Server 2008 R2, and Windows Server 2012. We're also planning to drop Support for the 32 bit release of Cygwin in 2022, thus Cygwin 3.4.0 won't come in 32 bit anymore, and the package maintainers won't have to update 32 bit packages anymore. If you're still running Cygwin under WOW64, consider to move to 64 bit in the next couple of months. Corinna -- Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: https://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-26 22:52 ` Michel LaBarre @ 2021-10-27 4:29 ` Peter A. Castro 2021-10-27 8:53 ` Corinna Vinschen 2021-10-27 14:57 ` Michel LaBarre 2021-10-27 8:33 ` Corinna Vinschen 1 sibling, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Peter A. Castro @ 2021-10-27 4:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Cygwin List On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 06:52:02PM -0400, Michel LaBarre wrote: Greetings, Michel & Corinna, > Corinna , thank you for the heads up regarding subsequent updates wrt Window > 7. > > Would it be possible to create a short "how-to" for installing the most > recently "known-to-work-with-Windows-7" version of Cygwin (presuming that > old versions remain accessible indefinitely...). Alternately, how one can > download a repository now that is compatible with Windows 7 and useable for > installing Cygwin in anticipation of the upcoming loss of support. As these milestones occur I will make notes in the Cygwin Time Machine concerning the ending release snapshot and installers, like what I have for the last XP release. Corinna, I presume you will post when these milestones occur so that we have a more exact message in the Cygwin mail archive? > I have old machines that cannot be updated to Windows 10 (hybrid graphics > hardware) that I use for background activities that I may someday need to > rebuild. > > Thank you very much for all your efforts. > > Michel > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cygwin [mailto:cygwin-bounces+michel.labarre=rogers.com@cygwin.com] On > Behalf Of Corinna Vinschen via Cygwin > Sent: October 26, 2021 4:55 PM > To: cygwin@cygwin.com > Cc: Corinna Vinschen > Subject: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support > > Hi folks, > > > The upcoming version 3.3.0 is the last version officially supporting > Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008. > > The next major release 3.4.0 will be released in 2022 and will be the > last one officially supporting Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows Server 2008 > R2, and Windows Server 2012. > > We're also planning to drop Support for the 32 bit release of Cygwin in > 2022, thus Cygwin 3.4.0 won't come in 32 bit anymore, and the package > maintainers won't have to update 32 bit packages anymore. If you're > still running Cygwin under WOW64, consider to move to 64 bit in the next > couple of months. > > > Corinna > > -- > Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html > FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ > Documentation: https://cygwin.com/docs.html > Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple > > > -- > Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html > FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ > Documentation: https://cygwin.com/docs.html > Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple -- --=> Peter A. Castro Email: doctor at fruitbat dot org / Peter dot Castro at oracle dot com "Cats are just autistic Dogs" -- Dr. Tony Attwood ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-27 4:29 ` Peter A. Castro @ 2021-10-27 8:53 ` Corinna Vinschen 2021-10-27 16:28 ` Peter A. Castro 2021-10-27 14:57 ` Michel LaBarre 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Corinna Vinschen @ 2021-10-27 8:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Oct 26 21:29, Peter A. Castro wrote: > On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 06:52:02PM -0400, Michel LaBarre wrote: > > Greetings, Michel & Corinna, > > > Corinna , thank you for the heads up regarding subsequent updates wrt Window > > 7. > > > > Would it be possible to create a short "how-to" for installing the most > > recently "known-to-work-with-Windows-7" version of Cygwin (presuming that > > old versions remain accessible indefinitely...). Alternately, how one can > > download a repository now that is compatible with Windows 7 and useable for > > installing Cygwin in anticipation of the upcoming loss of support. > > As these milestones occur I will make notes in the Cygwin Time Machine > concerning the ending release snapshot and installers, like what I have > for the last XP release. > > Corinna, I presume you will post when these milestones occur so that we > have a more exact message in the Cygwin mail archive? In which way do you mean? My planning was this: When I release 3.3.0 (next couple of days), I will add a note to the announcement that this is the last major release supporting Vista and Server 2008. When I release 3.4.0 (in some nebular future of 2022), I will add a note to the announcement that this version does not support Vista and 2008 anymore, and that 3.4.0 is the last version supporting W7, 8, 2008R2, 2012. That ok? Or do you think of somehting else? Oh, that reminds me... I should have sent the headsup to cygwin-announce, not to the cygwin ML. I will fix this omission immediately... Thanks, Corinna ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-27 8:53 ` Corinna Vinschen @ 2021-10-27 16:28 ` Peter A. Castro 2021-10-28 7:00 ` Corinna Vinschen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Peter A. Castro @ 2021-10-27 16:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 10:53:58AM +0200, Cygwin List wrote: Greetings, Corinna, > On Oct 26 21:29, Peter A. Castro wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 06:52:02PM -0400, Michel LaBarre wrote: > > > > Greetings, Michel & Corinna, > > > > > Corinna , thank you for the heads up regarding subsequent updates wrt Window > > > 7. > > > > > > Would it be possible to create a short "how-to" for installing the most > > > recently "known-to-work-with-Windows-7" version of Cygwin (presuming that > > > old versions remain accessible indefinitely...). Alternately, how one can > > > download a repository now that is compatible with Windows 7 and useable for > > > installing Cygwin in anticipation of the upcoming loss of support. > > > > As these milestones occur I will make notes in the Cygwin Time Machine > > concerning the ending release snapshot and installers, like what I have > > for the last XP release. > > > > Corinna, I presume you will post when these milestones occur so that we > > have a more exact message in the Cygwin mail archive? > > In which way do you mean? My planning was this: > > When I release 3.3.0 (next couple of days), I will add a note to the > announcement that this is the last major release supporting Vista and > Server 2008. > > When I release 3.4.0 (in some nebular future of 2022), I will add a > note to the announcement that this version does not support Vista and > 2008 anymore, and that 3.4.0 is the last version supporting > W7, 8, 2008R2, 2012. > > That ok? Or do you think of somehting else? That works. I'll note the email message for those announcements, like I've done for the XP finale, and provide direct circa links and a copy of the installer. > Oh, that reminds me... I should have sent the headsup to cygwin-announce, > not to the cygwin ML. I will fix this omission immediately... > > > Thanks, > Corinna > > -- > Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html > FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ > Documentation: https://cygwin.com/docs.html > Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple -- --=> Peter A. Castro Email: doctor at fruitbat dot org / Peter dot Castro at oracle dot com "Cats are just autistic Dogs" -- Dr. Tony Attwood ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-27 16:28 ` Peter A. Castro @ 2021-10-28 7:00 ` Corinna Vinschen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Corinna Vinschen @ 2021-10-28 7:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Oct 27 09:28, Peter A. Castro wrote: > On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 10:53:58AM +0200, Cygwin List wrote: > Greetings, Corinna, > > > On Oct 26 21:29, Peter A. Castro wrote: > > > Corinna, I presume you will post when these milestones occur so that we > > > have a more exact message in the Cygwin mail archive? > > > > In which way do you mean? My planning was this: > > > > When I release 3.3.0 (next couple of days), I will add a note to the > > announcement that this is the last major release supporting Vista and > > Server 2008. > > > > When I release 3.4.0 (in some nebular future of 2022), I will add a > > note to the announcement that this version does not support Vista and > > 2008 anymore, and that 3.4.0 is the last version supporting > > W7, 8, 2008R2, 2012. > > > > That ok? Or do you think of somehting else? > > That works. I'll note the email message for those announcements, like > I've done for the XP finale, and provide direct circa links and a copy > of the installer. Great, thanks! Corinna ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* RE: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-27 4:29 ` Peter A. Castro 2021-10-27 8:53 ` Corinna Vinschen @ 2021-10-27 14:57 ` Michel LaBarre 2021-10-27 16:38 ` Peter A. Castro 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Michel LaBarre @ 2021-10-27 14:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Peter A. Castro', 'Cygwin List' > > Would it be possible to create a short "how-to" for installing the most > > recently "known-to-work-with-Windows-7" version of Cygwin (presuming that > > old versions remain accessible indefinitely...). Alternately, how one can > > download a repository now that is compatible with Windows 7 and useable for > > installing Cygwin in anticipation of the upcoming loss of support. > > As these milestones occur I will make notes in the Cygwin Time Machine > concerning the ending release snapshot and installers, like what I have > for the last XP release. [Michel LaBarre] Peter, thanks for reminding me of the Time Machine. I had heard of it but never had occasion to use it. If I understand the "dead simple instructions" correctly, to install the latest XP-compatible 64-bit Cygwin for example, I would run (on an XP system): setup-x86_64-2.874.exe http://ctm.crouchingtigerhiddenfruitbat.org/pub/cygwin/circa/64bit/2016/08/3 0/104235 -X and all the correct packages would be presented in the setup GUI and fetched from your archive. And I could re-run the same command to install additional packages. If that is the correct, perhaps in the case of iconic last-versions (XP,Win7,...), you might explicitly list "deader simpler instructions" with the actual setup invocations referring to the correct archives. (Thanks in advance - the time machine is huge service.) > Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html > FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ > Documentation: https://cygwin.com/docs.html > Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-27 14:57 ` Michel LaBarre @ 2021-10-27 16:38 ` Peter A. Castro 0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Peter A. Castro @ 2021-10-27 16:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Cygwin List On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 10:57:00AM -0400, Michel LaBarre wrote: Greetings, Michel, > > > Would it be possible to create a short "how-to" for installing the most > > > recently "known-to-work-with-Windows-7" version of Cygwin (presuming > that > > > old versions remain accessible indefinitely...). Alternately, how one > can > > > download a repository now that is compatible with Windows 7 and useable > for > > > installing Cygwin in anticipation of the upcoming loss of support. > > > > As these milestones occur I will make notes in the Cygwin Time Machine > > concerning the ending release snapshot and installers, like what I have > > > for the last XP release. > [Michel LaBarre] > > Peter, thanks for reminding me of the Time Machine. I had heard of it but > never had occasion to use it. > > If I understand the "dead simple instructions" correctly, to install the > latest XP-compatible 64-bit Cygwin for example, I would run (on an XP > system): > > setup-x86_64-2.874.exe > http://ctm.crouchingtigerhiddenfruitbat.org/pub/cygwin/circa/64bit/2016/08/3 > 0/104235 -X > > and all the correct packages would be presented in the setup GUI and fetched > from your archive. That is correct. > And I could re-run the same command to install additional packages. That is also correct. If you have any issues, please contact me (the Time Machine page lists my contact at the bottom). I'm usually pretty responsive. I will note that doing an install of *everything* isn't exactly a good idea, because there are packages that overlap and conflict somewhat. I usually advice people to install just what they need rather than the entire enchilada. You can always install more later. > If that is the correct, perhaps in the case of iconic last-versions > (XP,Win7,...), you might explicitly list "deader simpler instructions" with > the actual setup invocations referring to the correct archives. The DSI are pretty generic, I agree, but armed with the update of the URLs to use and the installer link, I'm not sure an additional clarification is really necessary. But, give it a try and if you feel something more clear is really needed, I'll see about adding some verbage. > (Thanks in advance - the time machine is huge service.) Hopefully it is of use to people. :) > > Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html > > FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ > > Documentation: https://cygwin.com/docs.html > > Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple -- --=> Peter A. Castro Email: doctor at fruitbat dot org / Peter dot Castro at oracle dot com "Cats are just autistic Dogs" -- Dr. Tony Attwood ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-26 22:52 ` Michel LaBarre 2021-10-27 4:29 ` Peter A. Castro @ 2021-10-27 8:33 ` Corinna Vinschen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Corinna Vinschen @ 2021-10-27 8:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Oct 26 18:52, Michel LaBarre wrote: > Corinna , thank you for the heads up regarding subsequent updates wrt Window > 7. > > Would it be possible to create a short "how-to" for installing the most > recently "known-to-work-with-Windows-7" version of Cygwin (presuming that > old versions remain accessible indefinitely...). Alternately, how one can > download a repository now that is compatible with Windows 7 and useable for > installing Cygwin in anticipation of the upcoming loss of support. No hurry. As I wrote, 3.4.0 in 2022 will be the last version we support on W7. That doesn't mean Cygwin will immediately stop working on W7, we just won't make concessions for W7 anymore in later versions than 3.4.x. If you can reproduce a bug in 3.4.x, make sure to reproduce it on W8.1 or W10/11. Corinna ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-26 20:55 [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support Corinna Vinschen 2021-10-26 22:01 ` [QUAR] " Eliot Moss 2021-10-26 22:52 ` Michel LaBarre @ 2021-10-27 0:24 ` Takashi Yano 2021-10-27 8:49 ` Corinna Vinschen 2021-10-27 13:07 ` Andrew Schulman 2021-10-27 11:03 ` L A Walsh ` (3 subsequent siblings) 6 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Takashi Yano @ 2021-10-27 0:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 22:55:01 +0200 Corinna Vinschen wrote: > We're also planning to drop Support for the 32 bit release of Cygwin in > 2022, thus Cygwin 3.4.0 won't come in 32 bit anymore, and the package > maintainers won't have to update 32 bit packages anymore. If you're > still running Cygwin under WOW64, consider to move to 64 bit in the next > couple of months. I agree with you that 32 bit cygwin under WOW64 is not worth to support any more. However, 32 bit version of Windows 10 will be still supported at least until Oct. 2025. Personally, I think it would not be nice to exclude the supported windows version from cygwin support. -- Takashi Yano <takashi.yano@nifty.ne.jp> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-27 0:24 ` Takashi Yano @ 2021-10-27 8:49 ` Corinna Vinschen 2021-10-27 9:37 ` Thomas Wolff 2021-10-27 13:07 ` Andrew Schulman 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Corinna Vinschen @ 2021-10-27 8:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Oct 27 09:24, Takashi Yano via Cygwin wrote: > On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 22:55:01 +0200 > Corinna Vinschen wrote: > > We're also planning to drop Support for the 32 bit release of Cygwin in > > 2022, thus Cygwin 3.4.0 won't come in 32 bit anymore, and the package > > maintainers won't have to update 32 bit packages anymore. If you're > > still running Cygwin under WOW64, consider to move to 64 bit in the next > > couple of months. > > I agree with you that 32 bit cygwin under WOW64 is not worth to > support any more. However, 32 bit version of Windows 10 will be > still supported at least until Oct. 2025. Personally, I think it > would not be nice to exclude the supported windows version from > cygwin support. Well, it's not much effort to support WOW64 if we support 32 bit anyway. The problem is that Cygwin is somehow outgrowing 32 bit systems in terms of the available memory. Also, 32 bit Cygwin is still using a 32 bit time_t, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem Per the download statistics, as far as those statistics are trustable, 32 bit systems are less than 5% of the installed base, with the majority of them being WOW64 installations. Those can move over to 64 bit Cygwin easily. Less than 1% are real 32 bit systems. Dropping 32 bit support will reduce code complexity in Cygwin and it will reduce the workload of the package maintainers. Those few still running Cygwin on a real 32 bit system will still have a chance to run Cygwin by utilizing Peter's time machine. Corinna ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-27 8:49 ` Corinna Vinschen @ 2021-10-27 9:37 ` Thomas Wolff 2021-10-27 10:20 ` Corinna Vinschen 2021-10-27 16:46 ` Peter A. Castro 0 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Thomas Wolff @ 2021-10-27 9:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Am 27.10.2021 um 10:49 schrieb Corinna Vinschen via Cygwin: > On Oct 27 09:24, Takashi Yano via Cygwin wrote: >> On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 22:55:01 +0200 >> Corinna Vinschen wrote: >>> We're also planning to drop Support for the 32 bit release of Cygwin in >>> 2022, thus Cygwin 3.4.0 won't come in 32 bit anymore, and the package >>> maintainers won't have to update 32 bit packages anymore. If you're >>> still running Cygwin under WOW64, consider to move to 64 bit in the next >>> couple of months. >> I agree with you that 32 bit cygwin under WOW64 is not worth to >> support any more. However, 32 bit version of Windows 10 will be >> still supported at least until Oct. 2025. Personally, I think it >> would not be nice to exclude the supported windows version from >> cygwin support. > Well, it's not much effort to support WOW64 if we support 32 bit anyway. > The problem is that Cygwin is somehow outgrowing 32 bit systems in terms > of the available memory. Also, 32 bit Cygwin is still using a 32 bit > time_t, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem > > Per the download statistics, as far as those statistics are trustable, > 32 bit systems are less than 5% of the installed base, with the majority > of them being WOW64 installations. Those can move over to 64 bit Cygwin > easily. > > Less than 1% are real 32 bit systems. I think roughly 1% is still a community to consider. Working old machines shouldn't be trashed just because they are missing a few bits :) > Dropping 32 bit support will reduce code complexity in Cygwin and it will > reduce the workload of the package maintainers. Code complexity was also an argument when dropping XP support, but there was quite some discussion at its time. For `egrep "# *if.*(32|64)"` I'm counting roughly 160 matches in winsup, but only in a few files. Is it really necessary? > Those few still running > Cygwin on a real 32 bit system will still have a chance to run Cygwin > by utilizing Peter's time machine. Peter's time machine is a very appreciable effort. It's a bit fiddly though to figure out how to use it, particularly to identify the "latest XP version". Maybe some explicit howto could be published on the cygwin pages? Thomas ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-27 9:37 ` Thomas Wolff @ 2021-10-27 10:20 ` Corinna Vinschen 2021-10-27 16:46 ` Peter A. Castro 1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Corinna Vinschen @ 2021-10-27 10:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Oct 27 11:37, Thomas Wolff wrote: > Am 27.10.2021 um 10:49 schrieb Corinna Vinschen via Cygwin: > > Less than 1% are real 32 bit systems. > I think roughly 1% is still a community to consider. Working old machines > shouldn't be trashed just because they are missing a few bits :) > > > Dropping 32 bit support will reduce code complexity in Cygwin and it will > > reduce the workload of the package maintainers. > Code complexity was also an argument when dropping XP support, but there was > quite some discussion at its time. There's always discussion. Supporting older systems gets unfeasible at one point. The hoops you have to jump through to get the same functionality or just an adequate fake to replace stuff readily available on later systems are in part considerable. Just have a quick look at clock.cc. Practically all clock types need an OS check and a workaround for older systems. > For `egrep "# *if.*(32|64)"` I'm counting roughly 160 matches in winsup, but > only in a few files. Is it really necessary? Look again, just check for `# *if.*86' instead. Ignoring the math lib, 212 conditional compilations in 74 files, some of them really tricky. exceptions.cc is a nightmare in itself. Plus the wrapper functions still supporting Cygwin executables built under Cygwin 1.3, which only affects 32 bit anyway. If this can go away, the code base will be *much* simpler and easier to understand and *maybe* it will help to find somebody interested in sharing Cygwin maintainership. We're all not getting younger... > > Those few still running > > Cygwin on a real 32 bit system will still have a chance to run Cygwin > > by utilizing Peter's time machine. > > Peter's time machine is a very appreciable effort. It's a bit fiddly > though to figure out how to use it, particularly to identify the > "latest XP version". Maybe some explicit howto could be published on > the cygwin pages? Sure, if somebody wants to write up something, no problem to publish it on the Cygwin website. Corinna ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-27 9:37 ` Thomas Wolff 2021-10-27 10:20 ` Corinna Vinschen @ 2021-10-27 16:46 ` Peter A. Castro 2021-10-27 21:04 ` Thomas Wolff 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Peter A. Castro @ 2021-10-27 16:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Cygwin List On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 11:37:26AM +0200, Thomas Wolff wrote: Greetings, Thomas, > Am 27.10.2021 um 10:49 schrieb Corinna Vinschen via Cygwin: > > On Oct 27 09:24, Takashi Yano via Cygwin wrote: > > > On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 22:55:01 +0200 > > > Corinna Vinschen wrote: > > > > We're also planning to drop Support for the 32 bit release of Cygwin in > > > > 2022, thus Cygwin 3.4.0 won't come in 32 bit anymore, and the package > > > > maintainers won't have to update 32 bit packages anymore. If you're > > > > still running Cygwin under WOW64, consider to move to 64 bit in the next > > > > couple of months. > > > I agree with you that 32 bit cygwin under WOW64 is not worth to > > > support any more. However, 32 bit version of Windows 10 will be > > > still supported at least until Oct. 2025. Personally, I think it > > > would not be nice to exclude the supported windows version from > > > cygwin support. > > Well, it's not much effort to support WOW64 if we support 32 bit anyway. > > The problem is that Cygwin is somehow outgrowing 32 bit systems in terms > > of the available memory. Also, 32 bit Cygwin is still using a 32 bit > > time_t, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem > > > > Per the download statistics, as far as those statistics are trustable, > > 32 bit systems are less than 5% of the installed base, with the majority > > of them being WOW64 installations. Those can move over to 64 bit Cygwin > > easily. > > > > Less than 1% are real 32 bit systems. > I think roughly 1% is still a community to consider. Working old machines > shouldn't be trashed just because they are missing a few bits :) > > > Dropping 32 bit support will reduce code complexity in Cygwin and it will > > reduce the workload of the package maintainers. > Code complexity was also an argument when dropping XP support, but there was > quite some discussion at its time. > For `egrep "# *if.*(32|64)"` I'm counting roughly 160 matches in winsup, but > only in a few files. Is it really necessary? > > > Those few still running > > Cygwin on a real 32 bit system will still have a chance to run Cygwin > > by utilizing Peter's time machine. > > Peter's time machine is a very appreciable effort. It's a bit fiddly though to figure out how to use it, particularly to identify the "latest XP version". Maybe some explicit howto could be published on the cygwin pages? Could you please give an example of the "fiddly" bit? I list the URLs to use with the install and it's clearly labeled "The last version of Cygwin that supports XP is 2.5.2-1". Or were you, perhaps, refering to the actual usage of the URL in the Setup program? Another user, Michel, responded that perhaps a more explicit message with exact steps for install this might be helpful (as the "Dead Simple Instructions" are generic), but I'm not sure it's really necessary. Is that, perhaps, what you are refering to in that the instructions aren't explicit enough? > Thomas > > > -- > Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html > FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ > Documentation: https://cygwin.com/docs.html > Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple -- --=> Peter A. Castro Email: doctor at fruitbat dot org / Peter dot Castro at oracle dot com "Cats are just autistic Dogs" -- Dr. Tony Attwood ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-27 16:46 ` Peter A. Castro @ 2021-10-27 21:04 ` Thomas Wolff 2021-10-27 23:35 ` Peter A. Castro 0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Thomas Wolff @ 2021-10-27 21:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Hi Peter, Am 27.10.2021 um 18:46 schrieb Peter A. Castro: > On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 11:37:26AM +0200, Thomas Wolff wrote: > > Greetings, Thomas, > >> Am 27.10.2021 um 10:49 schrieb Corinna Vinschen via Cygwin: >>> On Oct 27 09:24, Takashi Yano via Cygwin wrote: >>>> On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 22:55:01 +0200 >>>> Corinna Vinschen wrote: >>>>> We're also planning to drop Support for the 32 bit release of Cygwin in >>>>> 2022, thus Cygwin 3.4.0 won't come in 32 bit anymore, and the package >>>>> maintainers won't have to update 32 bit packages anymore. If you're >>>>> still running Cygwin under WOW64, consider to move to 64 bit in the next >>>>> couple of months. >>>> I agree with you that 32 bit cygwin under WOW64 is not worth to >>>> support any more. However, 32 bit version of Windows 10 will be >>>> still supported at least until Oct. 2025. Personally, I think it >>>> would not be nice to exclude the supported windows version from >>>> cygwin support. >>> Well, it's not much effort to support WOW64 if we support 32 bit anyway. >>> The problem is that Cygwin is somehow outgrowing 32 bit systems in terms >>> of the available memory. Also, 32 bit Cygwin is still using a 32 bit >>> time_t, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem >>> >>> Per the download statistics, as far as those statistics are trustable, >>> 32 bit systems are less than 5% of the installed base, with the majority >>> of them being WOW64 installations. Those can move over to 64 bit Cygwin >>> easily. >>> >>> Less than 1% are real 32 bit systems. >> I think roughly 1% is still a community to consider. Working old machines >> shouldn't be trashed just because they are missing a few bits :) >> >>> Dropping 32 bit support will reduce code complexity in Cygwin and it will >>> reduce the workload of the package maintainers. >> Code complexity was also an argument when dropping XP support, but there was >> quite some discussion at its time. >> For `egrep "# *if.*(32|64)"` I'm counting roughly 160 matches in winsup, but >> only in a few files. Is it really necessary? >> >>> Those few still running >>> Cygwin on a real 32 bit system will still have a chance to run Cygwin >>> by utilizing Peter's time machine. >> Peter's time machine is a very appreciable effort. It's a bit fiddly though to figure out how to use it, particularly to identify the "latest XP version". Maybe some explicit howto could be published on the cygwin pages? > Could you please give an example of the "fiddly" bit? I list the URLs > to use with the install and it's clearly labeled "The last version of > Cygwin that supports XP is 2.5.2-1". Or were you, perhaps, refering to > the actual usage of the URL in the Setup program? On http://www.crouchingtigerhiddenfruitbat.org/Cygwin/timemachine.html, I see a setup link and a repository URL. If I run that setup and enter the URL on the mirror selection page, I get an error popup --------------------------- Cygwin Setup --------------------------- Can't open /software/windows/cygwin32/x86_64/setup.xz.sig for reading: No such file or directory --------------------------- OK --------------------------- So I should have deselected the preselected repository explicitly. If I fix that or click the popup off a few times, there's another popup --------------------------- Cygwin Setup --------------------------- Unable to get http://ctm.crouchingtigerhiddenfruitbat.org/pub/cygwin/circa/64bit/2016/08/30/104235/x86_64/setup.xz.sig from <http://ctm.crouchingtigerhiddenfruitbat.org/pub/cygwin/circa/64bit/2016/08/30/104235/> --------------------------- OK --------------------------- repeatedly. The command line you mentioned in the other mail does not seem to work either. The 32-bit version works (from the command line only). Also setup suggests my existing cygwin installation as its installation target which needs to be fixed carefully to avoid destruction... > Another user, Michel, responded that perhaps a more explicit message > with exact steps for install this might be helpful (as the "Dead Simple > Instructions" are generic), but I'm not sure it's really necessary. Is > that, perhaps, what you are refering to in that the instructions aren't > explicit enough? An explicit quote of a safely working command line invocation would certainly help. Best greetings Thomas ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-27 21:04 ` Thomas Wolff @ 2021-10-27 23:35 ` Peter A. Castro 0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Peter A. Castro @ 2021-10-27 23:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Thomas Wolff; +Cc: cygwin On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 11:04:16PM +0200, Thomas Wolff wrote: > Hi Peter, Greetings, Thomas, > Am 27.10.2021 um 18:46 schrieb Peter A. Castro: > > On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 11:37:26AM +0200, Thomas Wolff wrote: > > > > Greetings, Thomas, > > > > > Am 27.10.2021 um 10:49 schrieb Corinna Vinschen via Cygwin: > > > > On Oct 27 09:24, Takashi Yano via Cygwin wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 22:55:01 +0200 > > > > > Corinna Vinschen wrote: > > > > > > We're also planning to drop Support for the 32 bit release of Cygwin in > > > > > > 2022, thus Cygwin 3.4.0 won't come in 32 bit anymore, and the package > > > > > > maintainers won't have to update 32 bit packages anymore. If you're > > > > > > still running Cygwin under WOW64, consider to move to 64 bit in the next > > > > > > couple of months. > > > > > I agree with you that 32 bit cygwin under WOW64 is not worth to > > > > > support any more. However, 32 bit version of Windows 10 will be > > > > > still supported at least until Oct. 2025. Personally, I think it > > > > > would not be nice to exclude the supported windows version from > > > > > cygwin support. > > > > Well, it's not much effort to support WOW64 if we support 32 bit anyway. > > > > The problem is that Cygwin is somehow outgrowing 32 bit systems in terms > > > > of the available memory. Also, 32 bit Cygwin is still using a 32 bit > > > > time_t, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem > > > > > > > > Per the download statistics, as far as those statistics are trustable, > > > > 32 bit systems are less than 5% of the installed base, with the majority > > > > of them being WOW64 installations. Those can move over to 64 bit Cygwin > > > > easily. > > > > > > > > Less than 1% are real 32 bit systems. > > > I think roughly 1% is still a community to consider. Working old machines > > > shouldn't be trashed just because they are missing a few bits :) > > > > > > > Dropping 32 bit support will reduce code complexity in Cygwin and it will > > > > reduce the workload of the package maintainers. > > > Code complexity was also an argument when dropping XP support, but there was > > > quite some discussion at its time. > > > For `egrep "# *if.*(32|64)"` I'm counting roughly 160 matches in winsup, but > > > only in a few files. Is it really necessary? > > > > > > > Those few still running > > > > Cygwin on a real 32 bit system will still have a chance to run Cygwin > > > > by utilizing Peter's time machine. > > > Peter's time machine is a very appreciable effort. It's a bit fiddly though to figure out how to use it, particularly to identify the "latest XP version". Maybe some explicit howto could be published on the cygwin pages? > > Could you please give an example of the "fiddly" bit? I list the URLs > > to use with the install and it's clearly labeled "The last version of > > Cygwin that supports XP is 2.5.2-1". Or were you, perhaps, refering to > > the actual usage of the URL in the Setup program? > On http://www.crouchingtigerhiddenfruitbat.org/Cygwin/timemachine.html, I > see a setup link and a repository URL. > If I run that setup and enter the URL on the mirror selection page, I get an > error popup > --------------------------- > Cygwin Setup > --------------------------- > Can't open /software/windows/cygwin32/x86_64/setup.xz.sig for reading: No > such file or directory > --------------------------- > OK > --------------------------- > So I should have deselected the preselected repository explicitly. If I fix > that or click the popup off a few times, there's another popup > --------------------------- > Cygwin Setup > --------------------------- > Unable to get http://ctm.crouchingtigerhiddenfruitbat.org/pub/cygwin/circa/64bit/2016/08/30/104235/x86_64/setup.xz.sig > from <http://ctm.crouchingtigerhiddenfruitbat.org/pub/cygwin/circa/64bit/2016/08/30/104235/> > --------------------------- > OK > --------------------------- > repeatedly. I see. Yes, that is the setup signature file. At the top of the timemachine webpage there is a note is bold saying: "NOTE: Please remember to use the '-X' option when running setup!! (See update 08/05/2008 for details)." Now, it could be that setup is ignoring that option or that that option doesn't fully bypass the check for the signature file. It used to and I though it still does, but perhaps, that functionality has change? Need to ask Jon about that. > The command line you mentioned in the other mail does not seem to work > either. The 32-bit version works (from the command line only). Also setup > suggests my existing cygwin installation as its installation target which > needs to be fixed carefully to avoid destruction... So, that is an issue with how setup is invoked. Running from the command line and using the -X works, as you say, but staring it from an icon doesn't give you any option to supply the -X. so, yes, I can see that is a problem, but I don't have a way around it. So, yes, I agree this is a little "fiddly" as you claim. > > Another user, Michel, responded that perhaps a more explicit message > > with exact steps for install this might be helpful (as the "Dead Simple > > Instructions" are generic), but I'm not sure it's really necessary. Is > > that, perhaps, what you are refering to in that the instructions aren't > > explicit enough? > An explicit quote of a safely working command line invocation would > certainly help. I'll take that under advisement and see what I can do. Thank you for the feedback! > Best greetings > Thomas > > -- > Problem reports: https://cygwin.com/problems.html > FAQ: https://cygwin.com/faq/ > Documentation: https://cygwin.com/docs.html > Unsubscribe info: https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple -- --=> Peter A. Castro Email: doctor at fruitbat dot org / Peter dot Castro at oracle dot com "Cats are just autistic Dogs" -- Dr. Tony Attwood ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-27 0:24 ` Takashi Yano 2021-10-27 8:49 ` Corinna Vinschen @ 2021-10-27 13:07 ` Andrew Schulman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Andrew Schulman @ 2021-10-27 13:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin > On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 22:55:01 +0200 > Corinna Vinschen wrote: > > We're also planning to drop Support for the 32 bit release of Cygwin in > > 2022, thus Cygwin 3.4.0 won't come in 32 bit anymore, and the package > > maintainers won't have to update 32 bit packages anymore. If you're > > still running Cygwin under WOW64, consider to move to 64 bit in the next > > couple of months. > > I agree with you that 32 bit cygwin under WOW64 is not worth to > support any more. However, 32 bit version of Windows 10 will be > still supported at least until Oct. 2025. Personally, I think it > would not be nice to exclude the supported windows version from > cygwin support. On the one hand, it's not much more work to build packages for x86. On the other hand, 32-bit Cygwin will still be available - it just won't be updated, unless package maintainers want to. It's been many years since 32-bit PCs were sold. I don't know how many 32-bit PCs are still in use and running Cygwin, but it can't be very many. Overall, I agree that it's time. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-26 20:55 [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support Corinna Vinschen ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2021-10-27 0:24 ` Takashi Yano @ 2021-10-27 11:03 ` L A Walsh 2021-10-27 11:10 ` Corinna Vinschen 2021-10-27 15:25 ` [HEADSUP] " Jim Reisert AD1C ` (2 subsequent siblings) 6 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: L A Walsh @ 2021-10-27 11:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On 2021/10/26 13:55, Corinna Vinschen via Cygwin wrote: > Hi folks, > > > The upcoming version 3.3.0 is the last version officially supporting > Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008. > > The next major release 3.4.0 will be released in 2022 and will be the > last one officially supporting Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows Server 2008 R2, and Windows Server 2012. ---- Is that like 2022-Jan, or 2022-Dec? Sigh. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-27 11:03 ` L A Walsh @ 2021-10-27 11:10 ` Corinna Vinschen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Corinna Vinschen @ 2021-10-27 11:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Oct 27 04:03, L A Walsh wrote: > > > On 2021/10/26 13:55, Corinna Vinschen via Cygwin wrote: > > Hi folks, > > > > > > The upcoming version 3.3.0 is the last version officially supporting > > Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008. > > > > The next major release 3.4.0 will be released in 2022 and will be the > > last one officially supporting Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows Server 2008 R2, and Windows Server 2012. > ---- > Is that like 2022-Jan, or 2022-Dec? Sigh. We simply don't know yet. Jan is very unlikely, though. Corinna ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-26 20:55 [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support Corinna Vinschen ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 2021-10-27 11:03 ` L A Walsh @ 2021-10-27 15:25 ` Jim Reisert AD1C 2021-10-27 17:22 ` EXTERNAL: " Damon Register 2021-10-27 22:35 ` [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support [XEmacs for 64-bit?] Dan Harkless 2021-10-27 22:36 ` Dan Harkless 6 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Jim Reisert AD1C @ 2021-10-27 15:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 2:55 PM Corinna Vinschen wrote: > The upcoming version 3.3.0 is the last version officially supporting > Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008. > > The next major release 3.4.0 will be released in 2022 and will be the > last one officially supporting Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows Server 2008 > R2, and Windows Server 2012. > > We're also planning to drop Support for the 32 bit release of Cygwin in > 2022 This is all good. I really appreciate all the developer's efforts with Cygwin. There are thousands of ham radio operators all over the world who would not be getting data file updates without this software! -- Jim Reisert AD1C, <jjreisert@alum.mit.edu>, https://www.ad1c.us ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-27 15:25 ` [HEADSUP] " Jim Reisert AD1C @ 2021-10-27 17:22 ` Damon Register 0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Damon Register @ 2021-10-27 17:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On 10/27/2021 11:25 AM, Jim Reisert AD1C wrote: > On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 2:55 PM Corinna Vinschen wrote: > >> The upcoming version 3.3.0 is the last version officially supporting >> Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008. >> >> The next major release 3.4.0 will be released in 2022 and will be the >> last one officially supporting Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows Server 2008 >> R2, and Windows Server 2012. >> >> We're also planning to drop Support for the 32 bit release of Cygwin in >> 2022 > > This is all good. I really appreciate all the developer's efforts > with Cygwin. There are thousands of ham radio operators all over the > world who would not be getting data file updates without this > software! I am not sure that I follow this. Are you saying that amateur radio users will be fine with the loss of old Windows support? The appreciation is a general thanks for all that Cygwin developers do or is it a hint that you hope they don't drop old Windows? If it is the hope that old Windows isn't dropped, then it makes me smile a little. Now that I am in amateur radio, I see that it is an expensive hobby and a new computer is a small cost compared to the radio equipment Damon Register KK4OFV ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support [XEmacs for 64-bit?] 2021-10-26 20:55 [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support Corinna Vinschen ` (4 preceding siblings ...) 2021-10-27 15:25 ` [HEADSUP] " Jim Reisert AD1C @ 2021-10-27 22:35 ` Dan Harkless 2021-10-27 22:37 ` Dan Harkless 2021-10-27 22:36 ` Dan Harkless 6 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Dan Harkless @ 2021-10-27 22:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Corinna Vinschen via Cygwin On 10/26/2021 1:55 PM, Corinna Vinschen via Cygwin wrote: > We're also planning to drop Support for the 32 bit release of Cygwin in > 2022, thus Cygwin 3.4.0 won't come in 32 bit anymore, and the package > maintainers won't have to update 32 bit packages anymore. If you're > still running Cygwin under WOW64, consider to move to 64 bit in the next > couple of months. Except for my 32-bit Windows 7 (upgraded to 8.1) netbook, the only reason I still install Cygwin32 in parallel with Cygwin64 is so I can install the XEmacs packages. Anyone know more about the difficulty in getting those packages to work on 64-bit? XEmacs from EPEL works fine on 64-bit Linux, FWIW. From past attempts, I know it would take far too much time (and Elisp programming) to get GNU Emacs up to the usability level that I've had XEmacs at since the '90s. (w3m-img is another package only available on Cygwin32 that I install, but I don't use it and am not concerned about that one.) Thanks, Dan Harkless ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support [XEmacs for 64-bit?] 2021-10-27 22:35 ` [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support [XEmacs for 64-bit?] Dan Harkless @ 2021-10-27 22:37 ` Dan Harkless 0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Dan Harkless @ 2021-10-27 22:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Corinna Vinschen via Cygwin Oops, sorry for the direct email. Didn't realize you now have to use the "Reply List" button that pops into existence rather than the normal Reply button. I re-sent to the list. - Dan Harkless On 10/27/2021 3:35 PM, Dan Harkless wrote: > On 10/26/2021 1:55 PM, Corinna Vinschen via Cygwin wrote: >> We're also planning to drop Support for the 32 bit release of Cygwin in >> 2022, thus Cygwin 3.4.0 won't come in 32 bit anymore, and the package >> maintainers won't have to update 32 bit packages anymore. If you're >> still running Cygwin under WOW64, consider to move to 64 bit in the next >> couple of months. > Except for my 32-bit Windows 7 (upgraded to 8.1) netbook, the only > reason I still install Cygwin32 in parallel with Cygwin64 is so I can > install the XEmacs packages. Anyone know more about the difficulty in > getting those packages to work on 64-bit? XEmacs from EPEL works fine > on 64-bit Linux, FWIW. > > From past attempts, I know it would take far too much time (and Elisp > programming) to get GNU Emacs up to the usability level that I've had > XEmacs at since the '90s. > > (w3m-img is another package only available on Cygwin32 that I install, > but I don't use it and am not concerned about that one.) > > Thanks, > Dan Harkless ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support [XEmacs for 64-bit?] 2021-10-26 20:55 [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support Corinna Vinschen ` (5 preceding siblings ...) 2021-10-27 22:35 ` [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support [XEmacs for 64-bit?] Dan Harkless @ 2021-10-27 22:36 ` Dan Harkless 2021-10-28 8:47 ` Henry S. Thompson 6 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Dan Harkless @ 2021-10-27 22:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On 10/26/2021 1:55 PM, Corinna Vinschen via Cygwin wrote: > We're also planning to drop Support for the 32 bit release of Cygwin in > 2022, thus Cygwin 3.4.0 won't come in 32 bit anymore, and the package > maintainers won't have to update 32 bit packages anymore. If you're > still running Cygwin under WOW64, consider to move to 64 bit in the next > couple of months. Except for my 32-bit Windows 7 (upgraded to 8.1) netbook, the only reason I still install Cygwin32 in parallel with Cygwin64 is so I can install the XEmacs packages. Anyone know more about the difficulty in getting those packages to work on 64-bit? XEmacs from EPEL works fine on 64-bit Linux, FWIW. From past attempts, I know it would take far too much time (and Elisp programming) to get GNU Emacs up to the usability level that I've had XEmacs at since the '90s. (w3m-img is another package only available on Cygwin32 that I install, but I don't use it and am not concerned about that one.) Thanks, Dan Harkless ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support [XEmacs for 64-bit?] 2021-10-27 22:36 ` Dan Harkless @ 2021-10-28 8:47 ` Henry S. Thompson 0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Henry S. Thompson @ 2021-10-28 8:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dan Harkless; +Cc: cygwin Dan Harkless via Cygwin writes: > ... > Anyone know more about the difficulty in getting those packages to > work on 64-bit? Um, yes, I did a lot of work on that back in 2015 and got it working under Cygwin, with a lot of help from Vin Shelton, but never to the point of public release because it _only_ compiled with gcc, not with native Windows C tool chain. I still use it every day, it crashes about once a week. Given the demise of 32-bit, I'll try to get back to it some time in the next few months, but there's other stuff in the queue ahead of that... ht -- Henry S. Thompson, School of Informatics, University of Edinburgh 10 Crichton Street, Edinburgh EH8 9AB, SCOTLAND -- (44) 131 650-4440 Fax: (44) 131 650-4587, e-mail: ht@inf.ed.ac.uk URL: http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/ [mail from me _always_ has a .sig like this -- mail without it is forged spam] The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support @ 2021-10-27 20:36 Jeremy Drake 2021-10-28 6:00 ` Brian Inglis 2021-10-28 7:11 ` Corinna Vinschen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Jeremy Drake @ 2021-10-27 20:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Oops, forgot to send to list. On Wed, 27 Oct 2021, Takashi Yano wrote: > On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 22:55:01 +0200 > Corinna Vinschen wrote: > > We're also planning to drop Support for the 32 bit release of Cygwin in > > 2022, thus Cygwin 3.4.0 won't come in 32 bit anymore, and the package > > maintainers won't have to update 32 bit packages anymore. If you're > > still running Cygwin under WOW64, consider to move to 64 bit in the next > > couple of months. > > I agree with you that 32 bit cygwin under WOW64 is not worth to > support any more. However, 32 bit version of Windows 10 will be > still supported at least until Oct. 2025. Personally, I think it > would not be nice to exclude the supported windows version from > cygwin support. Please also note that Windows on ARM64 only just got the ability to run x86_64 binaries in Windows 11. Previously the only option was 32-bit x86, as there is no native ARM port of Cygwin. I don't know about Cygwin directly, but I know there are users of Git for Windows on ARM. I think a more gradual sunsetting of 32-bit might be a resonable compromise, based on the original wording: > 11:26 <corinna> starting with 3.4.0, maintainers are not obliged to > release packages in 32 bit so as of 3.4.0 some packages that are problematic on 32 bit may stop providing 32-bit versions. But not being obliged to release packages is a whole different thing than having the core code that allows *any* package to run being ripped out in that version. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-27 20:36 [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support Jeremy Drake @ 2021-10-28 6:00 ` Brian Inglis 2021-10-28 7:11 ` Corinna Vinschen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Brian Inglis @ 2021-10-28 6:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On 2021-10-27 14:36, Jeremy Drake via Cygwin wrote: > Oops, forgot to send to list. > > On Wed, 27 Oct 2021, Takashi Yano wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 22:55:01 +0200 >> Corinna Vinschen wrote: >>> We're also planning to drop Support for the 32 bit release of Cygwin in >>> 2022, thus Cygwin 3.4.0 won't come in 32 bit anymore, and the package >>> maintainers won't have to update 32 bit packages anymore. If you're >>> still running Cygwin under WOW64, consider to move to 64 bit in the next >>> couple of months. >> >> I agree with you that 32 bit cygwin under WOW64 is not worth to >> support any more. However, 32 bit version of Windows 10 will be >> still supported at least until Oct. 2025. Personally, I think it >> would not be nice to exclude the supported windows version from >> cygwin support. > > Please also note that Windows on ARM64 only just got the ability to run > x86_64 binaries in Windows 11. Previously the only option was 32-bit > x86, as there is no native ARM port of Cygwin. I don't know about Cygwin > directly, but I know there are users of Git for Windows on ARM. > > I think a more gradual sunsetting of 32-bit might be a resonable > compromise, based on the original wording: > >> 11:26 <corinna> starting with 3.4.0, maintainers are not obliged to >> release packages in 32 bit > > so as of 3.4.0 some packages that are problematic on 32 bit may stop > providing 32-bit versions. But not being obliged to release packages is a > whole different thing than having the core code that allows *any* package > to run being ripped out in that version. I would expect the first action would be to eventually remove unsupported OS releases from the compatibility list in the Windows default manifest built into every Cygwin exe resources by gcc from package windows-default-manifest /usr/lib/default-manifest.o: ... <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="yes"?> <assembly xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v1" manifestVersion="1.0"> <trustInfo xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v3"> <security> <requestedPrivileges> <requestedExecutionLevel level="asInvoker"/> </requestedPrivileges> </security> </trustInfo> <compatibility xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:compatibility.v1"> <application> <!--The ID below indicates application support for Windows Vista --> <supportedOS Id="{e2011457-1546-43c5-a5fe-008deee3d3f0}"/> <!--The ID below indicates application support for Windows 7 --> <supportedOS Id="{35138b9a-5d96-4fbd-8e2d-a2440225f93a}"/> <!--The ID below indicates application support for Windows 8 --> <supportedOS Id="{4a2f28e3-53b9-4441-ba9c-d69d4a4a6e38}"/> <!--The ID below indicates application support for Windows 8.1 --> <supportedOS Id="{1f676c76-80e1-4239-95bb-83d0f6d0da78}"/> <!--The ID below indicates application support for Windows 10 --> <supportedOS Id="{8e0f7a12-bfb3-4fe8-b9a5-48fd50a15a9a}"/> </application> </compatibility> </assembly> ... But I think you may be able to override this in File Explorer ...exe Properties Compatibility tab. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada This email may be disturbing to some readers as it contains too much technical detail. Reader discretion is advised. [Data in binary units and prefixes, physical quantities in SI.] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support 2021-10-27 20:36 [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support Jeremy Drake 2021-10-28 6:00 ` Brian Inglis @ 2021-10-28 7:11 ` Corinna Vinschen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Corinna Vinschen @ 2021-10-28 7:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Oct 27 13:36, Jeremy Drake via Cygwin wrote: > Oops, forgot to send to list. > > On Wed, 27 Oct 2021, Takashi Yano wrote: > > > On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 22:55:01 +0200 > > Corinna Vinschen wrote: > > > We're also planning to drop Support for the 32 bit release of Cygwin in > > > 2022, thus Cygwin 3.4.0 won't come in 32 bit anymore, and the package > > > maintainers won't have to update 32 bit packages anymore. If you're > > > still running Cygwin under WOW64, consider to move to 64 bit in the next > > > couple of months. > > > > I agree with you that 32 bit cygwin under WOW64 is not worth to > > support any more. However, 32 bit version of Windows 10 will be > > still supported at least until Oct. 2025. Personally, I think it > > would not be nice to exclude the supported windows version from > > cygwin support. > > Please also note that Windows on ARM64 only just got the ability to run > x86_64 binaries in Windows 11. Previously the only option was 32-bit > x86, as there is no native ARM port of Cygwin. I don't know about Cygwin > directly, but I know there are users of Git for Windows on ARM. > > I think a more gradual sunsetting of 32-bit might be a resonable > compromise, based on the original wording: Ripping out 32 bit code to clean up the code base (and, typically, finding bugs in the 64 bit code while doing that) is something I'm planning for the end of 2022 or early 2023, so there's enough time left. And just because the latest version of Cygwin doesn't run on Vista/W7/ 32 bit systems anymore, doesn't mean they can't run Cygwin anymore. Older release will still be available for a time on cygwin.com, and more or less infinitely via Peter's time machine. Corinna ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2021-10-28 8:47 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 29+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2021-10-26 20:55 [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support Corinna Vinschen 2021-10-26 22:01 ` [QUAR] " Eliot Moss 2021-10-26 22:52 ` Michel LaBarre 2021-10-27 4:29 ` Peter A. Castro 2021-10-27 8:53 ` Corinna Vinschen 2021-10-27 16:28 ` Peter A. Castro 2021-10-28 7:00 ` Corinna Vinschen 2021-10-27 14:57 ` Michel LaBarre 2021-10-27 16:38 ` Peter A. Castro 2021-10-27 8:33 ` Corinna Vinschen 2021-10-27 0:24 ` Takashi Yano 2021-10-27 8:49 ` Corinna Vinschen 2021-10-27 9:37 ` Thomas Wolff 2021-10-27 10:20 ` Corinna Vinschen 2021-10-27 16:46 ` Peter A. Castro 2021-10-27 21:04 ` Thomas Wolff 2021-10-27 23:35 ` Peter A. Castro 2021-10-27 13:07 ` Andrew Schulman 2021-10-27 11:03 ` L A Walsh 2021-10-27 11:10 ` Corinna Vinschen 2021-10-27 15:25 ` [HEADSUP] " Jim Reisert AD1C 2021-10-27 17:22 ` EXTERNAL: " Damon Register 2021-10-27 22:35 ` [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support [XEmacs for 64-bit?] Dan Harkless 2021-10-27 22:37 ` Dan Harkless 2021-10-27 22:36 ` Dan Harkless 2021-10-28 8:47 ` Henry S. Thompson 2021-10-27 20:36 [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support Jeremy Drake 2021-10-28 6:00 ` Brian Inglis 2021-10-28 7:11 ` Corinna Vinschen
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