From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1470 invoked by alias); 3 Nov 2013 22:05:46 -0000 Mailing-List: contact cygwin-help@cygwin.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: cygwin-owner@cygwin.com Mail-Followup-To: cygwin@cygwin.com Received: (qmail 1459 invoked by uid 89); 3 Nov 2013 22:05:46 -0000 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; auth=none X-Virus-Found: No X-Spam-SWARE-Status: No, score=4.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM,KAM_THEBAT,RDNS_NONE,SPF_SOFTFAIL,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no version=3.3.2 X-HELO: smtpback.ht-systems.ru Received: from Unknown (HELO smtpback.ht-systems.ru) (78.110.50.181) by sourceware.org (qpsmtpd/0.93/v0.84-503-g423c35a) with (AES256-SHA encrypted) ESMTPS; Sun, 03 Nov 2013 22:05:16 +0000 Received: from [91.78.173.97] (helo=darkdragon.lan) by smtp.ht-systems.ru with esmtpa (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Vd5n7-0008WM-8l; Mon, 04 Nov 2013 02:05:05 +0400 Received: from [192.168.1.10] (HELO daemon2.darkdragon.lan) by daemon2 (Office Mail Server 0.8.12 build 08053101) with SMTP; Sun, 03 Nov 2013 21:59:11 -0000 Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 22:05:00 -0000 From: Andrey Repin Reply-To: Andrey Repin Message-ID: <2610586421.20131104015911@mtu-net.ru> To: "D. Boland" , cygwin@cygwin.com Subject: Re: vi stealing SYSTEM-owned permissions and ownership In-Reply-To: <527698EA.16C8F45C@boland.nl> References: <5274F396.A133C4CE@boland.nl> <52757448.81FE6C53@boland.nl> <1139549616.20131103022620@mtu-net.ru> <527698EA.16C8F45C@boland.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-IsSubscribed: yes X-SW-Source: 2013-11/txt/msg00049.txt.bz2 Greetings, D. Boland! >> Your main problem is that you are trying to break into native Windows >> ACL system with Cygwin tools. And not only that, you also trying to >> wrest native ACLs into POSIX permissions, and expect native applications to >> work fine afterward. >> Which can be done theoretically, but in reality is a real big headache to >> maintain. > You are speaking of Cygwin as if it's some kind of quick hack. It is NOT a "quick hack". But to work across different paradigm boundaries, you have to know, what exactly it means and how it works. > This is not the case. Most of the tools are of the GNU software collection, > which is high quality software. ACL is also available on other Linux > flavours, and they don't have to "wrest" it into POSIX. I'm NOT talking about tools provided. I tell you about inherent difference between POSIX and Windows ACL's, short version and consequences of which I've explained already, and you can find some more technical details in Cygwin documentation. > Also, one could say that ACL is a superset of the POSIX model. No, unfortunately, you can not. As I said, there's inherent differences. > It uses POSIX's idea of users, groups and others, but then offers the > posibility to add more users and groups for more elaborate schemes. The > headache starts when one actually starts using these extra posibilities. POSIX ACL do not use selective inheritance model, as I'm aware. >> If you truly want to show your students their Windows systems from the command >> line, I suggest you learn Windows command line. >> If not very robust, it is nonetheless rich, and allow for many operations >> normally performed from GUI, and some operations, that can not be done from >> GUI, either without much complication or at all. >> In the case mentioned below, the "net" tool should come in handy. As well >> as "sc" tool. > I could just give my students an iMac, but these are not used in IT production > infrastructures. Windows (business/government) and Linux/Unix (ISP's) are. You make it sound like Macs are something from a parallel universe. Same *NIX, just more thoroughly put together. For the record: I've had a MacBook for near a year. Wrested it all to my needs. No problem whatsoever. > The Windows command line is frustrating to work on. For instance, their > implementation of autocompleting with the tab-key sucks. I'll give you a hint: http://farmanager.com/index.php?l=en > In stead of really simplifying and improving on DOS, MS comes up with more > weird tools like PowerShell. > Now you have to be a programmer to use the command-line. No need to "use command line". This is where you make a mistake. You use command-line tools to perform specific tasks. That's it. But if you inclined to "use command line", check out http://jpsoft.com/all-downloads/downloads.html >> Also, forcing someone to use vi over more sane editors is a torture which no >> one deserve. >> > Haha, yes. But if my students have to administer remote production-machines, > most of the time they have no other option. I want them to succeed where > others fail. I can't imagine a situation, where I only have one way to edit the file. Even on my web hosting, I have a choice between vi, mcedit, ed and ee. -- WBR, Andrey Repin (anrdaemon@yandex.ru) 04.11.2013, <01:39> Sorry for my terrible english... -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple