RE: ps command - revisited

RE: ps command - revisited

[Robert Collins]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Faylor [mailto:cgf@redhat.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 2:24 PM
> To: cygwin@cygwin.com
> Subject: Re: ps command - revisited
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 02:03:15PM +1000, Robert Collins wrote:
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Alan Dobkin [mailto:Alan@ADobkin.Net]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 1:59 PM
> >
> >>Similarly, the System process should be identified as such 
> instead of 
> >>unknown.
> >
> >What is the 'System process'?
> 
> Look at the output from the Task Manager.

Sure, there's no 'System process'. Do you mean the 'System Idle process'
aka the scheduler?

Rob

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

RE: ps command - revisited

[Alan Dobkin]

--On Wednesday, April 10, 2002 2:39 PM +1000 Robert Collins
<robert.collins@itdomain.com.au> wrote:

>> > What is the 'System process'?
>> 
>> Look at the output from the Task Manager.
> 
> Sure, there's no 'System process'. Do you mean the 
> 'System Idle process' aka the scheduler?
> 
> Rob

No, it's a separate process.  According to Microsoft, "Most 
system kernel-mode threads run as the System process."  See:

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q263/2/01.asp

It may not appear in Windows OSes other than 2000.

$ ps -W
      PID    PPID    PGID     WINPID  TTY  UID    STIME COMMAND
        8       0       0          8    ?    0 15:24:48 *** unknown ***

D:\>tlist /t
System Process (0)
System (8)

D:\>pulist
Process           PID  User
Idle              0
System            8

D:\>pslist
Name         Pid Pri Thd  Hnd    Mem     User Time   Kernel Time
Idle           0   0   1    0     16   0:00:00.000 482:15:09.042
System         8   8  35  199     28   0:00:00.000   1:40:49.048

Alan

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: ps command - revisited

[Alan Dobkin]

--On Wednesday, April 10, 2002 12:23 AM -0400 Christopher Faylor
<cygwin@cygwin.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 11:59:08PM -0400, Alan Dobkin wrote:
>> I don't intend to submit a patch for this either, at least not 
>> any time soon, but I would be happy to provide information and 
>> testing for someone else who is willing and able to work on it.
> 
> I presume that you aren't talking to me, but I'll make it clear 
> one more time: I'm not interested in this in any way.

Correct - I was just making an open statement to anyone on the list.  
Actually, I'm not that interested in it either, since I mainly use 
ps to list Cygwin-specific processes and TLIST for Win32 processes.

> If I wanted to debug it, I'd look at the source and figure it out from
> there.  Voluminous details about behavior when you do/don't login via
> ssh are probably not required if you are actually debugging the problem.

Well, I thought ancillary information and testing results would be 
useful to supplement the debugging, but all the better if it's not.

Alan

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: ps command - revisited

[Christopher Faylor]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 02:03:15PM +1000, Robert Collins wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alan Dobkin [mailto:Alan@ADobkin.Net] 
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 1:59 PM
>
>>Similarly, the System process should be identified as such instead of
>>unknown.
>
>What is the 'System process'?

Look at the output from the Task Manager.

cgf

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: ps command - revisited

[Christopher Faylor]

On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 11:59:08PM -0400, Alan Dobkin wrote:
>>The functionality you see now is all that I plan on providing.
>>
>>Patches are, as always, gratefully accepted, however.
>
>I don't intend to submit a patch for this either, at least not any time
>soon, but I would be happy to provide information and testing for
>someone else who is willing and able to work on it.

I presume that you aren't talking to me, but I'll make it clear one more
time: I'm not interested in this in any way.

If I wanted to debug it, I'd look at the source and figure it out from
there.  Voluminous details about behavior when you do/don't login via
ssh are probably not required if you are actually debugging the problem.

cgf

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

RE: ps command - revisited

[Robert Collins]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Dobkin [mailto:Alan@ADobkin.Net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 1:59 PM

>  Similarly, 
> the System process should be identified as such instead of unknown.

What is the 'System process'?
 
Rob

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: ps command - revisited

[Alan Dobkin]

--On Tuesday, April 09, 2002 11:08 PM -0400 Christopher Faylor
<cgf@redhat.com> wrote:

> As with so many other things in Cygwin, what you see is what 
> you get from the underlying Windows API that we're using.  If 
> certain processes aren't showing up when we say "give me all 
> of your processes", then they aren't being displayed.

Well, I just did a few tests, and the results may shed some light 
on the problem, which seems to be specific to Cygwin, not the API.  
I ran ps -W on several Windows 2000 systems, including one with a 
clean install of the OS and Cygwin from this week.  In every case, 
the CSRSS.EXE process is excluded when ps is run on the local box, 
either in a bash cmd shell or rxvt.  However, when using SSH, even 
to localhost, the CSRSS.EXE process magically re-appears.  Also, 
using every one of the other ps-type utilities (i.e. TLIST, PULIST, 
PsList, Task Manager, etc.), this process is displayed at all times.

So why would Cygwin be excluding this process on the local machine?  
Whatever the answer is may be the same reason to why the original 
poster's process wasn't being displayed either, and I wonder if 
their process would be displayed if they tried the ps -W via SSH.

> The exception is PID 0.  The zero pid is special to cygwin so it 
> can't be displayed due to a cygwin limitation.

A simple solution to this might be to have ps -W prepend PID 0 to 
its output as a placeholder so the listing is complete.  Similarly, 
the System process should be identified as such instead of unknown.

> The functionality you see now is all that I plan on providing.
> 
> Patches are, as always, gratefully accepted, however.

I don't intend to submit a patch for this either, at least not any 
time soon, but I would be happy to provide information and testing 
for someone else who is willing and able to work on it.

Alan

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: ps command - revisited

[Christopher Faylor]

On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 10:59:36PM -0400, Alan Dobkin wrote:
>I don't know why Chris's process isn't showing up, but I can attest to
>the fact that all Windows processes, including those associated with
>services *do* appear in the ps -W output, with only two exceptions: the
>System Idle Process (PID #0) and the CSRSS.EXE (Client/Server Run-Time
>Subsystem) process, which is the user-mode portion of the Win32
>subsystem.

As with so many other things in Cygwin, what you see is what you get
from the underlying Windows API that we're using.  If certain processes
aren't showing up when we say "give me all of your processes", then they
aren't being displayed.

The exception is PID 0.  The zero pid is special to cygwin so it can't
be displayed due to a cygwin limitation.

>Maybe cgf knows why these are missing and/or can add them to a future
>release.

The functionality you see now is all that I plan on providing.

Patches are, as always, gratefully accepted, however.

cgf

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: ps command - revisited

[Alan Dobkin]

I don't know why Chris's process isn't showing up, but I can 
attest to the fact that all Windows processes, including those 
associated with services *do* appear in the ps -W output, with 
only two exceptions:  the System Idle Process (PID #0) and the 
CSRSS.EXE (Client/Server Run-Time Subsystem) process, which is 
the user-mode portion of the Win32 subsystem.  Maybe cgf knows 
why these are missing and/or can add them to a future release. 
This should probably be considered a bug, since they are always 
listed in other Win32 process listings.  (Another minor related 
bug is that the System process, which runs kernel-mode threads, 
shows up as "*** unknown ***" instead of "System" in ps -W.)

As others have mentioned, there are lots of good utilities to 
list processes on WinNT/2K.  My personal preference is TLIST, 
which comes with the Windows 2000 Support Tools (included on 
the Win2K Pro CD), since it has a -T option for "task tree" 
which shows parent/child processes in sort of a hierarchy.  
It can also display detailed service/process/thread/DLL info.  
There is also PULIST, which comes with the Resource Kit and 
displays usernames associated with each process.  It can also 
show processes on remote systems.  Finally, there is PsList, 
which is one of Mark Russinovich's excellent utilities in his 
free PsTools suite.  You can download this from his web site:

http://www.sysinternals.com/

On the other hand, if you are specially looking for NT/2K 
service-related information, as opposed to process-related 
information, I recommend Mark Russinovich's PsService (also 
part of the PsTools suite above), and the MS Resource Kit 
utilities SC (Service Controller), SCLIST, and NETSVC.

Enjoy!

Alan

--On Tuesday, April 09, 2002 7:28 PM -0400 Christopher Faylor
<cgf@redhat.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 05:17:42PM -0400, CRuprecht@Exchange.WebMD.net
> wrote:
>> Hi all, specially Corinna,
>> 
>> Corinna, maybe you can help out here. The UNIX ps command reports all and
>> every process running on the machine, the Windows (cygwin) ps command
>> however, omits WinNT/Win2K services, which is something we would like to
>> have working. Would it be possible to extent the current version of the
>> ps command to include this or can this become a future project?
> 
> I'm not sure why you would expect Corinna to "help out here" as I was
> the one who added the '-W' functionality to 'ps'.
> 
> The answer to your question is "No".  It is very unlikely that anyone
> would be interested in adding this kind of functionality to 'ps'.
> 
> I suggest you look into other alternatives.  If it is possible to list
> services then surely there is a tool out there which already does that.


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: ps command - revisited

[Christopher Faylor]

On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 05:17:42PM -0400, CRuprecht@Exchange.WebMD.net wrote:
>Hi all, specially Corinna,
>
>Corinna, maybe you can help out here. The UNIX ps command reports all and
>every process running on the machine, the Windows (cygwin) ps command
>however, omits WinNT/Win2K services, which is something we would like to
>have working. Would it be possible to extent the current version of the ps
>command to include this or can this become a future project?

I'm not sure why you would expect Corinna to "help out here" as I was
the one who added the '-W' functionality to 'ps'.

The answer to your question is "No".  It is very unlikely that anyone
would be interested in adding this kind of functionality to 'ps'.

I suggest you look into other alternatives.  If it is possible to list
services then surely there is a tool out there which already does that.

Maybe you've already investigated this however, this topic really has
nothing to do with Cygwin.  You probably will have better luck in
some other mailing list or newsgroup.

cgf

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

RE: ps command - revisited

[Heribert Dahms]

Hi Chris,

do you get no service at all or ist just the one missing?
(Sorry, have nothing uptodate running to try myself)

PULIST.EXE from NT Resource Kit 4.0 shows (all?) services!

Bye, Heribert (heribert_dahms@icon-scm.com)

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	CRuprecht@Exchange.WebMD.net [SMTP:CRuprecht@Exchange.WebMD.net]
> Sent:	Tuesday, April 09, 2002 23:44
> To:	roland@steeltorch.com; cygwin@cygwin.com
> Subject:	RE: ps command - revisited
> 
> Been there, done that - that's not it. I can see this process in 'Task
> Manager':
> admsrvc.exe, pid=508, it's running as a service under WinNT, this is part
> of
> our database manager.
> ps, even with the W option, will NOT show this task, no matter what other
> options you give it. In my search for a utility which does, I came across
> an
> article about cygwin's ps command which explicitly states that it's not a
> complete implementation. And yes, I have read the man pages, and I am
> aware
> of the W option .. *sigh* ... ;-).
> 
> Best regards,
> Chris
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Roland Glenn McIntosh [mailto:roland@steeltorch.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 5:25 PM
> > To: cygwin@cygwin.com
> > Cc: Ruprecht, Chris
> > Subject: Re: ps command - revisited
> > 
> > 
> > *sigh* RTFM.
> > 
> >         ps -Wef
> > 
> > -rgm
> > 
> > At 05:17 PM 04.09.2002 -0400, you wrote:
> > >Hi all, specially Corinna,
> > >
> > >Corinna, maybe you can help out here. The UNIX ps command 
> > reports all and
> > >every process running on the machine, the Windows (cygwin) ps command
> > >however, omits WinNT/Win2K services, which is something we 
> > would like to
> > >have working. Would it be possible to extent the current 
> > version of the ps
> > >command to include this or can this become a future project? 
> > I am no C
> > >programmer myself, never mind Windows, and would not tackle 
> > this what so
> > >ever. I can also not say what kind of effort it would be to 
> > implement - or
> > >what kind of motivation ;-).
> > >
> > >Best regards
> > >Chris
> 

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

RE: ps command - revisited

[CRuprecht]

Been there, done that - that's not it. I can see this process in 'Task
Manager':
admsrvc.exe, pid=508, it's running as a service under WinNT, this is part of
our database manager.
ps, even with the W option, will NOT show this task, no matter what other
options you give it. In my search for a utility which does, I came across an
article about cygwin's ps command which explicitly states that it's not a
complete implementation. And yes, I have read the man pages, and I am aware
of the W option .. *sigh* ... ;-).

Best regards,
Chris


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roland Glenn McIntosh [mailto:roland@steeltorch.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 5:25 PM
> To: cygwin@cygwin.com
> Cc: Ruprecht, Chris
> Subject: Re: ps command - revisited
> 
> 
> *sigh* RTFM.
> 
>         ps -Wef
> 
> -rgm
> 
> At 05:17 PM 04.09.2002 -0400, you wrote:
> >Hi all, specially Corinna,
> >
> >Corinna, maybe you can help out here. The UNIX ps command 
> reports all and
> >every process running on the machine, the Windows (cygwin) ps command
> >however, omits WinNT/Win2K services, which is something we 
> would like to
> >have working. Would it be possible to extent the current 
> version of the ps
> >command to include this or can this become a future project? 
> I am no C
> >programmer myself, never mind Windows, and would not tackle 
> this what so
> >ever. I can also not say what kind of effort it would be to 
> implement - or
> >what kind of motivation ;-).
> >
> >Best regards
> >Chris
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Corinna Vinschen [mailto:cygwin@cygwin.com]
> >> 
> >
> >--
> >Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
> >Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
> >Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
> >FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: ps command - revisited

[Roland Glenn McIntosh]

*sigh* RTFM.

        ps -Wef

-rgm

At 05:17 PM 04.09.2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi all, specially Corinna,
>
>Corinna, maybe you can help out here. The UNIX ps command reports all and
>every process running on the machine, the Windows (cygwin) ps command
>however, omits WinNT/Win2K services, which is something we would like to
>have working. Would it be possible to extent the current version of the ps
>command to include this or can this become a future project? I am no C
>programmer myself, never mind Windows, and would not tackle this what so
>ever. I can also not say what kind of effort it would be to implement - or
>what kind of motivation ;-).
>
>Best regards
>Chris
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Corinna Vinschen [mailto:cygwin@cygwin.com]
>> 
>
>--
>Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
>Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
>Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
>FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/ 




--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

ps command - revisited

[CRuprecht]

Hi all, specially Corinna,

Corinna, maybe you can help out here. The UNIX ps command reports all and
every process running on the machine, the Windows (cygwin) ps command
however, omits WinNT/Win2K services, which is something we would like to
have working. Would it be possible to extent the current version of the ps
command to include this or can this become a future project? I am no C
programmer myself, never mind Windows, and would not tackle this what so
ever. I can also not say what kind of effort it would be to implement - or
what kind of motivation ;-).

Best regards
Chris

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Corinna Vinschen [mailto:cygwin@cygwin.com]
> 

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/