From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp49.i.mail.ru (smtp49.i.mail.ru [94.100.177.109]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3541E383D011 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 2021 13:30:22 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.1 sourceware.org 3541E383D011 Received: by smtp49.i.mail.ru with esmtpa (envelope-from ) id 1lqboC-0006QW-1h; Tue, 08 Jun 2021 16:30:20 +0300 Subject: Re: Python for Windows reports wrong local time when run under Cygwin on Europe/Moscow TZ To: L A Walsh Cc: "cygwin@cygwin.com" References: <5542c19d-8b1a-1f28-2003-fe9493ee9b56@mail.ru> <60BF5677.9060904@tlinx.org> <97024d79-16b2-98a0-d20a-b3e6915ad0d0@mail.ru> <60BF6ADB.304@tlinx.org> From: Mike Kaganski Message-ID: <318a3022-34a8-c9bc-a020-2067e244cd04@mail.ru> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2021 16:30:17 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <60BF6ADB.304@tlinx.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-7564579A: 646B95376F6C166E X-77F55803: 4F1203BC0FB41BD9D5B0DA836B685C543EF5F9E25E4001B3518B676B8BE4A4C7182A05F53808504024DF915CBED7E6CBC7CB9300FBA9A323ADA1FABAD1A321AFA7870383FFB3D2DD X-7FA49CB5: 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 X-C1DE0DAB: 0D63561A33F958A581FB6EB0839E039195E96628B8E7F06721ABE2073E47F144D59269BC5F550898D99A6476B3ADF6B47008B74DF8BB9EF7333BD3B22AA88B938A852937E12ACA75A42E9C66FC9EA4CF410CA545F18667F91A7EA1CDA0B5A7A0 X-C8649E89: 4E36BF7865823D7055A7F0CF078B5EC49A30900B95165D3435BBF0AC4E3A921C7EFBC38E21CB260857C4F47CA101E7432D74F7F4BC42BB026788F1DEA714FD071D7E09C32AA3244C907C012E55AA76001EFD2F5B1406577FC86C126E7119A0FE729B2BEF169E0186 X-D57D3AED: 3ZO7eAau8CL7WIMRKs4sN3D3tLDjz0dLbV79QFUyzQ2Ujvy7cMT6pYYqY16iZVKkSc3dCLJ7zSJH7+u4VD18S7Vl4ZUrpaVfd2+vE6kuoey4m4VkSEu530nj6fImhcD4MUrOEAnl0W826KZ9Q+tr5ycPtXkTV4k65bRjmOUUP8cvGozZ33TWg5HZplvhhXbhDGzqmQDTd6OAevLeAnq3Ra9uf7zvY2zzsIhlcp/Y7m53TZgf2aB4JOg4gkr2biojvdTwgM2ZyZnFCf0Lhds+dg== X-Mailru-Sender: 00097D31F91C944B962E58D352881757082C21653C9ABAF4E388C746B6323290D586A72D9E53DC1D8D3DB682BF6F1158E66B5C1DBFD5D09D046C2275A8D60F931CD745D6427E807167EA787935ED9F1B X-Mras: Ok X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, BODY_8BITS, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, DKIM_VALID_EF, FREEMAIL_FROM, NICE_REPLY_A, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW, SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: cygwin@cygwin.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Cygwin discussions and problem reports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2021 13:30:24 -0000 On 08.06.2021 16:04, L A Walsh wrote: > On 2021/06/08 05:28, Mike Kaganski wrote: >> >> No, I report a problem that a native program runs incorrectly *under >> Cygwin*, because Cygwin is indeed part of the picture. > --- >     The problem is in the MS-Win term program.  If you report > it to them and tell them it only misbehaves when you have a 3rd > party app injecting "dll's" (libraries) into the MS-program, they > will _likely_ tell you that they can't support every 3rd party > program that injects libraries into MS programs, and they can only > support you running it without the 3rd party programs. First of all - please stop telling me that I required support. I didn't demand anything, and was asking *in the hope*, but without any wrong expectations that anyone owes anything here. I never claimed that someone must support my use case - so please, please stop answering what wasn't said. I am a free software developer, working on LibreOffice project; I know what free software is, and what mailing list is. That they don't support something doesn't mean it's inappropriate to ask with a hope, a question that could be *possibly* answered, and which answer could happen to be helpful also to others. >     Just like cygwin devs have noticed that various > other programs (see > BLODA:https://cygwin.com/faq/faq.html#faq.using.bloda ) > are known for causing problems in cygwin.  The cygwin devs can't > support all the 3rd party programs that interfere. See above. >> and being not a prophet, I can't know in advance if the actual bug >> lies in Windows, in Python, or in Cygwin interaction with them. > --- >     As I said before, python is probably picking up time-zone > changes from _both_ cygwin and windows.  The workaround is to use > the appropriate version of python with the correct OS.  Cygwin is > an OS emulation, Win10 is another OS.  They both have versions of > python designed for them.  If MS thought the cygwin version of python > was good enough for every purpose, they wouldn't have issued their > own version. MS didn't. The native Windows builds of Python weren't from MS - they were from LibreOffice and from Python Software Foundation, as described in the initial mail (and at the sites linked there). >     You might ask on a python list if anyone else has experienced > something similar with python or any other program.  I'm fairly sure > that neither MS nor cygwin design their OS with python in mind and > that it is python that is interacting funny when running under some > merge of both.  Have you asked the python people about this problem? > What did they suggest? I will ask at Python, of course. I didn't yet, because I didn't want to cross-post same question to many places, and am waiting until it's clear that I need to ask there, not here. > >> And I assume that Cygwin is not declaring that its users "must never >> run native applications from Cygwin", so I find that passage above >> inappropriate and off-topic. > --- >     Just because they don't tell you to never run linux apps > directly in cygwin doesn't mean they support it if you insist on > trying.  Most devs won't tell you all the things you can't do, because > that list is endless.  That certainly doesn't suggest that they would > support all the things that don't work. See above. > >> >>> Though as to why -- likely the windows version is getting time zone >>> clues + correction from BOTH cygwin and Windows, like it's told its >>> in a TZ that is at 1 time, while Windows feeds it other data that >>> says it is 2 hours off from the default. > >> Maybe. It's OK if no one here knows the reason - I of course don't >> expect anyone here obliged to give an answer. My question was >> intended to ask if someone (e.g., a Cygwin dev) somehow can see the >> problem from their expertise, and - maybe - even know how to fix it. >> Maybe there's some technique how to workaround this problem - and >> even if it's not a Cygwin's bug, it still could be useful for Cygwin >> users, hence still the post to the list, accompanied by someone's >> workaround, would be reasonable and useful. > ---- >     When you say you run the Win python on cygwin, what do you > mean? I mean "start Cygwin terminal - either C:\cygwin64\bin\mintty.exe, or C:\cygwin64\Cygwin.bat; then start Python using a command line as provided in the initial mail - I have provided there a full command line with the path". >   ... I just ran python from windows (not the same version you > have, but an old one python2.7.  I ran it from bash, but the resulting > python doesn't have any cygwin libraries loaded -- that tells me that > python is looking at some absolute paths and the environment and picking > up both -- it's a MS-python "bug". > Look in its environment and remove any thing for timezone and try that. I will try without TZ. > Or look in your path and make sure there are no cygwin directories > in the path that your win-python is using.  I'm pretty sure that > will solve your problem. > > FWIW, here is a list of what python running from 'bash.exe' from > cygwin has loaded -- and none of it is from cygwin: > > /prog/Sysinternals/cmd/exe> Listdlls python Indeed there's no Cygwin's DLLs reported. -- Best regards, Mike Kaganski