Re: Too Much Mail Volume

Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Peter Yeh]

I second the idea of moving this mailing list to a newsgroup.  


>
>This mailing list has so much volume that I think we would be better
>served with a newsgroup to move the traffic and to provide a FAQ.
>
>How about comp.unix.gnu-win32?
>-


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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Norm Peterson]

On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Peter Yeh wrote:

> I second the idea of moving this mailing list to a newsgroup.  
> 
> 
> >
> >This mailing list has so much volume that I think we would be better
> >served with a newsgroup to move the traffic and to provide a FAQ.
> >
> >How about comp.unix.gnu-win32?

How about just dropping into one of the alt.* hierarchy?  From what I
understand, you don't need to have any of the voting (or any particular
reason) to start the group.  This could serve as a testbed before moving
into the comp.* area.  If it fails, ah well back to the mail list. If not,
great. 



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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Tim Iverson]

I don't like the alt.* idea.  I don't get (and don't want) any of the
alt.* groups, so putting it there puts it out of my reach.  IMHO, the only
stuff that belongs in alt.* is that which no one wants anyway.  If this
list falls into that category, then it should not be moved to a newsgroup.


- Tim Iverson
  iverson@lionheart-com

\f
+----------------
| Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:28:38 -0600 (CST)
| From: Norm Peterson <norm@comanche.dyn.ml.org>
| To: gnu-win32@cygnus.com
| Subject: Re: Too Much Mail Volume
| 
| On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Peter Yeh wrote:
| > I second the idea of moving this mailing list to a newsgroup.  
| > 
| > >This mailing list has so much volume that I think we would be better
| > >served with a newsgroup to move the traffic and to provide a FAQ.
| 
| How about just dropping into one of the alt.* hierarchy?  From what I
| understand, you don't need to have any of the voting (or any particular
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Newsgroup proposal (was: Too Much Mail Volume)

[Raymond Y. Lillard]

 
> I don't like the alt.* idea.  I don't get (and don't want) any of the
> alt.* groups, so putting it there puts it out of my reach.  IMHO, the only
> stuff that belongs in alt.* is that which no one wants anyway.  If this
> list falls into that category, then it should not be moved to a newsgroup.

I heartliy agree with the above opinion regarding alt.* newsgroups.

I see two solutions to the (problem?) of too much mail which could
be implemented by those who feel they have such a problem.  These
are solutions which they can implement themselves or with assistance
from their local systems administrator.

1.	Get a better mail reader.  There are several readers which can
	sort incoming mail.  Setup the incoming mail filters to drop all
	mail from this list into a gnuwin32 mailbox.

2.	Gateway this list to a locally distributed newsgroup.  You might
	need help from your local sysadm.

Those who still feel they get too much mail from this group should
consider unsubscribing.

There are two logical places where support (as in general agreement)
for a newsgroup might be found.  They are:

	* comp.os.ms-windows.gnu-win32
	* gnu.gnu-win32

An additional possiblilty for those who enjoy bearding the lion in
his den is:

	* microsoft.public.gnu-win32

BTW, most of the Microsoft Windows related traffic is now in the
"microsoft.public" heirachy rather than anything under "comp.os".

If anybody cares, my opinion is that the world will care about
gnu-win32 for about 3 more years.  If a newsgroup is made it will
then be as popular as "comp.sys.att" or "comp.os.cpm".

After that time those of us who know how the world could have been
will an insignificant minority.  Face it, the raison d'etre for
gnu-win32 is that there presently is a significantly sized group
of poeple who are struggling to make the transition from Unix and
its work-a-likes.

In about three years time, we will all have gone over to the dark
side or started selling real estate.  Those of us who leave to sell
real estate will have a finely tuned Linux box up and cooking at home.
It will be secreted in a closet or in the basement where none of our
acquaintances will see it, just a few special and trusted old friends.

May all beings be happy,
Ray

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Re: Newsgroup proposal (was: Too Much Mail Volume)

[Tim Iverson]

Hmmm.  Most of the newsgroups I read have less traffic than this mailing
list, so those that say they're on bigger lists just makes me wonder about
the wisdom of not moving those to newsgroups also.

IMHO, mailing lists are best when the information is either confidential or
of value to only a select population.  This is an open list, so the former
doesn't apply and judging from the volume, neither does the latter.

A filtering MUA is not the answer -- we already use those.  The problem is
the volume itself.  As it stands now, *I* am basically the expire process
for my own little gnu-win32 newsgroup.  I would far prefer that this was
offloaded onto a real newsgroup.

Anyway, I'm just whining here.  I don't have the time or resources to setup
a gateway, or I'd vote the old-fashioned way, and just do it.  I'm hoping
someone else out there does have the time. ;)

There are more comments inline ...

- Tim Iverson

\f
+----------------
| From: ryl@innovix.com (Raymond Y. Lillard)
| Subject: Newsgroup proposal (was: Too Much Mail Volume)
| To: iverson@lionheart.com (Tim Iverson)
| Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:46:38 -0800 (PST)
| Cc: gnu-win32@cygnus.com
...
| 1.	Get a better mail reader.  There are several readers which can
...
| 2.	Gateway this list to a locally distributed newsgroup.  You might
...
| Those who still feel they get too much mail from this group should
| consider unsubscribing.

I've thought about it; 99% of this list is useless, but every once in a
while, someone says something interesting.

| will an insignificant minority.  Face it, the raison d'etre for
| gnu-win32 is that there presently is a significantly sized group
| of poeple who are struggling to make the transition from Unix and
| its work-a-likes.

Bzzzt.  Not for me.  The reason I'm interested in gnu-win32 is not for the
Unixen stuff -- when I want Unix, I use the real thing.  No, it's for the
compiler.  There are no quality compilers for the windows platform.  There
are absolutely no quality cross-compilers.

| real estate will have a finely tuned Linux box up and cooking at home.
| It will be secreted in a closet or in the basement where none of our
| acquaintances will see it, just a few special and trusted old friends.

Heh.  Not to start a religious war, but why on earth would anyone want to run
Linux when they can get the real thing for free (*BSD)?  Yeah, MS/NT or
variants will always win the popularity contest, but it's gonna take a long
time (more than a puny 3 years) before it's anywhere near as robust as a
Unix system.  Even Linux beats NT.


- Tim Iverson
  iverson@lionheart-com
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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Michael Anderson]

If this mailing list does get moved to a newsgroup, the mailing list
should continue also. Many ISPs outside the USA don't offer newsgroups,
but I suspect that all have email.
-- 

Mike Anderson
mka@redes.int.com.mx
Guanajuato, GTO, Mexico
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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Kees van Veen]

Michael Anderson wrote:
> 
> If this mailing list does get moved to a newsgroup, the mailing list
> should continue also. Many ISPs outside the USA don't offer newsgroups,
> but I suspect that all have email.
> --

That goes for me, yes
Kees
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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Norm Peterson]

Michael Anderson wrote:
> 
> If this mailing list does get moved to a newsgroup, the mailing list
> should continue also. Many ISPs outside the USA don't offer newsgroups,
> but I suspect that all have email.

Certainly, no one's suggested doing away with the mail list.  Also, the
reason I mentioned just making an alt.* group is for speed, doing away
with the comp.* required voting, waiting, etc.  Scripts to do the proper
forwarding to/from the list/group wouldn't be that difficult to make
(there may even be some out there already).  Anyone who doesn't get (or
just doesn't like) reading/posting via the group would still get
everything via the mail list.
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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Paul Garceau]

On  1 Dec 97 at 8:28, the Illustrious Norm Peterson wrote:

> 
> On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Peter Yeh wrote:
> 
> > I second the idea of moving this mailing list to a newsgroup.  
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > >This mailing list has so much volume that I think we would be better
> > >served with a newsgroup to move the traffic and to provide a FAQ.
> > >
> > >How about comp.unix.gnu-win32?
> 
> How about just dropping into one of the alt.* hierarchy?  From what I
> understand, you don't need to have any of the voting (or any particular
> reason) to start the group.  This could serve as a testbed before moving
> into the comp.* area.  If it fails, ah well back to the mail list. If
> not, great.

	alt.* groups, by their nature, are completely vulnerable to UCE/Spam.  
Many of us barely have time to reply as we do the mailing list...to open 
ourselves up to mindless spam or UCE seems to be the wrong answer, in my 
humble opinion.

	Peace,

		Paul G. 
> 
> 
> 
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> For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
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> 


Chronicles of Aurum: Book I
      A Journey Into the Fantastic
http://www.submergedsoftware.com/
ICQ#977283
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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Michael Hirmke]

Hi,

>I second the idea of moving this mailing list to a newsgroup.

No. This isn't a high traffic mailing list compared to a lot of other
lists I am on.

Bye.
Michael.
--
Michael Hirmke           | Telefon +49 (911) 557999
Georg-Strobel-Strasse 81 | FAX     +49 (911) 557664
90489 Nuernberg          | E-Mail  mailto:mh@mike.franken.de
                         | WWW     http://minimike.franken.de/
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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Martin Carl Grant]

> >I second the idea of moving this mailing list to a newsgroup.
  
> No. This isn't a high traffic mailing list compared to a lot of other
> lists I am on.

How about having someone autopost, (using some kind of elm filter), all
mail which originates on this mailing list.

Likewise any posts on newsgroup that haven't been sent on the mailing 
list could be forwarded.

That way anyone could subscribe to the mailing list or read the newsgroup
and not miss anything.

All we need is a person to write these two scripts, who is also responsible
enough to monitor them.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Grant                    "Fight me!" :-) -Martin 
www.ici.net/cust_pages/mgrant   "Just call me The Doctor."
seer@earthling.net              "Fizban!  Where?"
---------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Larry Hall (RFK Partners Inc)]

At 08:56 AM 12/2/97 -0500, Martin Carl Grant wrote:
>> >I second the idea of moving this mailing list to a newsgroup.
>  
>> No. This isn't a high traffic mailing list compared to a lot of other
>> lists I am on.
>
>How about having someone autopost, (using some kind of elm filter), all
>mail which originates on this mailing list.
>
>Likewise any posts on newsgroup that haven't been sent on the mailing 
>list could be forwarded.
>
>That way anyone could subscribe to the mailing list or read the newsgroup
>and not miss anything.
>
>All we need is a person to write these two scripts, who is also responsible
>enough to monitor them.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>Martin Grant                    "Fight me!" :-) -Martin 
>www.ici.net/cust_pages/mgrant   "Just call me The Doctor."
>seer@earthling.net              "Fizban!  Where?"
>---------------------------------------------------------------

This is a good idea.  May I suggest someone who is interested in seeing this
mail list in a newsgroup pick up on this idea?  I, for one, have no problem
with the concept of this "group" as a mail list but I think it would be 
beneficial to those who like the newsgroup forum better to be able to access
it in this form too.  This idea seems to provide that nicely without forcing
a complete change of forum for those that are happy with the mail list.




Larry Hall                              lhall@rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      (781) 239-1053
8 Grove Street                          (781) 239-1655 - FAX
Wellesley, MA  02181                             
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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Chris Faylor]

In article < 6j3hsQAppfB@mike.franken.de >,
Michael Hirmke <mh@mike.franken.de> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>>I second the idea of moving this mailing list to a newsgroup.
>
>No. This isn't a high traffic mailing list compared to a lot of other
>lists I am on.

I vote emphatically against moving this to a newsgroup.  I don't think that
the traffic justifies it.  Also, we'll all be subject to much more spam
both from the newsgroup spammers and from the spammers who harvest mail
addresses from newsgroup headers.

If cygwin or some well-connected site wanted to set up a private NNTP
server to host a private newsgroup, however, I think that would be a
great idea.


-- 
http://www.bbc.com/	cgf@bbc.com			"Strange how unreal
VMS=>UNIX Solutions	Boston Business Computing	 the real can be."
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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Peter R Fife]

I don't see what the fuss is about with spam email and the like. Just set
up the appropriate filters to put spam etc into a spam mailbox. Then,
quickly scan the contents of this mailbox, read anything that looks
interesting and delete the rest. That's what I do. The only problem I see
with spam email is wasting Internet bandwidth. 

So, I filter this mailing list to a particular mailbox. I only read it when
I want to.

Regards,
Peter


At 03:38 PM 12/2/97 GMT, Chris Faylor wrote:
>In article < 6j3hsQAppfB@mike.franken.de >,
>Michael Hirmke <mh@mike.franken.de> wrote:
>>Hi,
>>
>>>I second the idea of moving this mailing list to a newsgroup.
>>
>>No. This isn't a high traffic mailing list compared to a lot of other
>>lists I am on.
>
>I vote emphatically against moving this to a newsgroup.  I don't think that
>the traffic justifies it.  Also, we'll all be subject to much more spam
>both from the newsgroup spammers and from the spammers who harvest mail
>addresses from newsgroup headers.
>
>If cygwin or some well-connected site wanted to set up a private NNTP
>server to host a private newsgroup, however, I think that would be a
>great idea.
>
>
>-- 
> http://www.bbc.com/	cgf@bbc.com			"Strange how unreal
>VMS=>UNIX Solutions	Boston Business Computing	 the real can be."
>-
>For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
>"gnu-win32-request@cygnus.com" with one line of text: "help".
>
>
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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Paul Garceau]

On  2 Dec 97 at 15:38, the Illustrious Chris Faylor wrote:

> In article < 6j3hsQAppfB@mike.franken.de >,
> Michael Hirmke <mh@mike.franken.de> wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >>I second the idea of moving this mailing list to a newsgroup.
> >
> >No. This isn't a high traffic mailing list compared to a lot of other
> >lists I am on.
> 
> I vote emphatically against moving this to a newsgroup.  I don't think
> that the traffic justifies it.  Also, we'll all be subject to much more
> spam both from the newsgroup spammers and from the spammers who harvest
> mail addresses from newsgroup headers.
> 
> If cygwin or some well-connected site wanted to set up a private NNTP
> server to host a private newsgroup, however, I think that would be a
> great idea.

	I can agree to this.  It means, of course, that whoever does set up the 
NNTP server will need to make doubly-certain that they can't be attacked 
by any email moles that are capable of rapeing an NNTP server by stripping 
out all of the email addresses stored therein.

	Peace,

		Paul G.


Chronicles of Aurum: Book I
      A Journey Into the Fantastic
http://www.submergedsoftware.com/
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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Chris Faylor]

In article < 199712040152.UAA15020@bw.webex.net >,
Paul Garceau <pgarceau@submergedsoftware.com> wrote:
>On  2 Dec 97 at 15:38, the Illustrious Chris Faylor wrote:
>> >>I second the idea of moving this mailing list to a newsgroup.
>> >
>> >No. This isn't a high traffic mailing list compared to a lot of other
>> >lists I am on.
>> 
>> I vote emphatically against moving this to a newsgroup.  I don't think
>> that the traffic justifies it.  Also, we'll all be subject to much more
>> spam both from the newsgroup spammers and from the spammers who harvest
>> mail addresses from newsgroup headers.
>> 
>> If cygwin or some well-connected site wanted to set up a private NNTP
>> server to host a private newsgroup, however, I think that would be a
>> great idea.
>
>	I can agree to this.  It means, of course, that whoever does set up the 
>NNTP server will need to make doubly-certain that they can't be attacked 
>by any email moles that are capable of rapeing an NNTP server by stripping 
>out all of the email addresses stored therein.

God, I hate spam.
-- 
http://www.bbc.com/	cgf@bbc.com			"Strange how unreal
VMS=>UNIX Solutions	Boston Business Computing	 the real can be."
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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[hgfernan]

On  3 Dec 97 at 11:04, Robert.V.Baron <rvb@gluck.coda.cs.cmu.edu>
wrote:

> I think the traffic is more like 20 to 30 pieces a day.  For me, the
> issue of volume is less important than quality.  I'd like to see
> several groups (news or mail), for: 	
>    newbies 	
>    programming questions
> 	 interactions with microsoft DLL's, tools
>    technical discussions
> perhaps more.  This would allow us to sort and categorize the volume
> better.

Hi, all!


I'd like to give my vote for Robert's proposal.  I'm not very sure
about the mail categories, but the idea is excellent. 

That way, the signal to noise in the mailing list would be much
higher.  For instance, people that read the newbie mailing list would
be sure they would find newbie questions: newbies would be free to
post newbie questions, anyone else would answer those questions only
if they really wanted to.  Cum bona fide, some would say.  

That way, probably people would team up to create the long awaited 
(more complete) FAQ.

I guess that subdivision interests Cygnus too, because there would be
more focused light on their product.


Regards,
++Hilton
-------------------
Hilton Fernandes
email: hgfernan@usp.br
       hilton@lsi
www:   http://www.lsi.usp.br/~hilton.html
M. Sc. Student of Parallel Distributed Applications
at LSI (Laboratory of Integrated Systems)
University of S. Paulo - Brazil
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RE: Too Much Mail Volume

[GBradfor]

On 12/3/97, Michael Anthon <anthonm@tams.com.au> at Internet wrote:

>About 10 messages in one day is not very high volume.  I am behind a 
>firewall and accessing news groups is a problem for me.  I have no 
>objection to a dual system, but some thought might be put into removing 
>or distorting mail addresses since junk mailers that harvest news 
>groups are a real problem.
     
10 a day!  I was gone a week and had well over 200 messages to clear out of my 
box from this list alone.  I was out yesterday, and this morning I had 75 
messages in my box!  Personally, I (and my mail admin) like the idea of a 
newsgroup.

/s/
Pat Bradford

        Respond to:
                gbradfor@redstone.army.mil
                        AND/OR
                p_n_brad@traveller.com


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RE: Too Much Mail Volume

[Larry Hall]

At 08:49 AM 12/4/97 -0600, GBradfor wrote:
>
>
>On 12/3/97, Michael Anthon <anthonm@tams.com.au> at Internet wrote:
>
>>About 10 messages in one day is not very high volume.  I am behind a 
>>firewall and accessing news groups is a problem for me.  I have no 
>>objection to a dual system, but some thought might be put into removing 
>>or distorting mail addresses since junk mailers that harvest news 
>>groups are a real problem.
>     
>10 a day!  I was gone a week and had well over 200 messages to clear out of my 
>box from this list alone.  I was out yesterday, and this morning I had 75 
>messages in my box!  Personally, I (and my mail admin) like the idea of a 
>newsgroup.
>
>/s/
>Pat Bradford
>
>        Respond to:
>                gbradfor@redstone.army.mil
>                        AND/OR
>                p_n_brad@traveller.com
>

Whenever this subject comes up on this list (and believe me, it ain't the
first time!), I hesitate to contribute to the flow.  I think people should
have access to this list's information in the form that is best for them.
However, it seems everytime this comes up, there is allot of discussion on
this list about the hows and wheres and never the whos and whens.  If 
people want a newsgroup, it seems to me it is more productive to figure
out the latter rather than the former first.  Since NOONE ever seems to 
volunteer to take this ball and running with it, I'm left with the 
impression that either noone is REALLY that interested or everybody simply 
wants someone else to do it.  Let me make a suggestion.  If there is 
someone out there that is really interested in getting this list into a 
newsgroup, send 1 mail message to this list asking that other interested 
parties to send email back to him or her.  Some or all of those parties can 
formulate what they think is a reasonable plan off-line from this list and 
then present it back to the list when they are done.  It will be painful to 
have yet another round of these discussions on this list at that time but 
at least there will be a cohesive (I should hope) proposal to discuss which 
will address many of the concerns and provide a structure, mechanism, and 
responsible body for moving this forward or letting it drop.  More random 
discussions on this topic which bring up the same issues with no conclusion 
every three months or so is not productive for anyone.  While I have noticed
at times that this list generates mail on the order of 50-75 messages
daily, this seems to happen most often when somewhat off-topic threads like
this one get proposed or another pertinent topic drifts off-center.  
Normally I don't find the traffic that unwieldy myself.  But to each 
his/her own.  However, as a non-rhetorical question, can we either address 
this topic in a logical manner off-line from this list or let it die?  I'm 
sure all of our mailboxes will appreciate the reduced traffic either way.

I've said my piece.  Any flames can be directed specifically to me.  No 
need to clutter the list even more with responses from people who feel
I've stepped on their toes!


Larry Hall                              lhall@rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      (781) 239-1053
8 Grove Street                          (781) 239-1655 - FAX
Wellesley, MA  02181                             
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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Earnie Boyd]

>From: "Paul Garceau" <pgarceau@submergedsoftware.com>
>To: gnu-win32@cygnus.com
>Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:54:18 -0800
>Subject: Re: Too Much Mail Volume
>Reply-to: pgarceau@submergedsoftware.com
>
>Greetings,
>
>On 30 Nov 97 at 12:45, the Illustrious Steven Bellenot wrote:
>
>> 
>> This mailing list has so much volume that I think we would be better
>> served with a newsgroup to move the traffic and to provide a FAQ.
>
>	I tend to agree with this...in two days I've received nearly 100 
emails 
>from the list.
>


Most of my mail from this list for the past 3 or 4 days has been this 
thread.  Please, put an end to it.

-        \\||//
---o0O0--Earnie--0O0o----
-earnie_boyd@hotmail.com-
------ooo0O--O0ooo-------


______________________________________________________
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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Robert.V.Baron]

I think the traffic is more like 20 to 30 pieces a day.  For me, the
issue of volume is less important than quality.  I'd like to see several
groups (news or mail), for:
	newbies
	programming questions
	interactions with microsoft DLL's, tools
	technical discussions
perhaps more.  This would allow us to sort and categorize the volume better.
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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Greg Martin]

As a newbie I must say I love Robert's suggestion! Greg Martin

Robert.V.Baron wrote:

> I think the traffic is more like 20 to 30 pieces a day.  For me, the
> issue of volume is less important than quality.  I'd like to see several
> groups (news or mail), for:
>         newbies
>         programming questions
>         interactions with microsoft DLL's, tools
>         technical discussions
> perhaps more.  This would allow us to sort and categorize the volume better.
> -
> For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
> "gnu-win32-request@cygnus.com" with one line of text: "help".



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Re: Too much mail volume

[vischne]

Look, if you guys had any smarts, you would scrap the mail version of this
list entirely and go with the archive instead.

That way, people interested in knowing what is going on in the discussion
can tune in to the archive and not bother with their e-mail server.  You
would also add a URL for posting followups to archive articles.


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Re: Too much mail volume

[Tim Iverson]

Bzzzt.  Web?  Just say no.  In fact if the list went there, I'd drop it.
Web is fine for initial research, but beyond that it's a waste of time.
Certainly, browser interfaces for reading and sending messages on the Web
are at least a decade behind what's available for mail and news on Unixen.


- Tim Iverson
  iverson@lionheart-com

\f
+----------------
| From: vischne@ibm.net
| Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:34:09 GMT
| Subject: Re: Too much mail volume
| To: gnu-win32@cygnus.com
| 
| Look, if you guys had any smarts, you would scrap the mail version of this
| list entirely and go with the archive instead.
| 
| That way, people interested in knowing what is going on in the discussion
| can tune in to the archive and not bother with their e-mail server.  You
| would also add a URL for posting followups to archive articles.
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Re: Too much mail volume

[Bartlee A. Anderson]

vischne@ibm.net wrote:
> 
> Look, if you guys had any smarts, you would scrap the mail version of this

While I __don't__ agree with this slam at our collective cognitive
abilities, I somewhat like the ideas proposed.

Anyone else think there is some merit here?

Bart

> list entirely and go with the archive instead.
> 
> That way, people interested in knowing what is going on in the discussion
> can tune in to the archive and not bother with their e-mail server.  You
> would also add a URL for posting followups to archive articles.
> 
> -
> For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
> "gnu-win32-request@cygnus.com" with one line of text: "help".

-- 
Bartlee A. Anderson     System Test (Interfaces-Tools-Automation-ISDN)
Rockwell International                    Electronic Commerce Division
300 Bauman Ct.                                banders@ecd.rockwell.com
MS 933-605      Opinions my own, not Rockwell's   VOICE (630) 227-8975
Wood Dale, IL 60191                               FAX   (630) 227-9771
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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Chris Faylor]

>I don't see what the fuss is about with spam email and the like. Just set
>up the appropriate filters to put spam etc into a spam mailbox. Then,
>quickly scan the contents of this mailbox, read anything that looks
>interesting and delete the rest. That's what I do. The only problem I see
>with spam email is wasting Internet bandwidth. 

This particular argument crops up every time someone mentions spam.
What "set up the appropriate filters" means is: Take a stab at filtering
the spam.  Then when something slips through, tinker with the filters
again.  Another one comes through?  No problem.  Just add another rule
to the filter.  Hmm.  How does that work again?  man procmailex.  Oh yeah.

Not getting any email?  Oops.  The filter was too general.  Someone
complains that they sent you mail and didn't respond?  Oh yeah.  I
haven't checked my spam mailbox in a while.

I don't care for this scenario.  YMMV.

>So, I filter this mailing list to a particular mailbox. I only read it when
>I want to.

I don't have the option of only reading email when I want to.  And, as you
mentioned, I don't particularly like any of my limited internet bandwidth
being eaten by junk email.
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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Peter R Fife]

At 11:31 AM 12/3/97 -0500, Chris Faylor wrote:
>>I don't see what the fuss is about with spam email and the like. Just set
>>up the appropriate filters to put spam etc into a spam mailbox. Then,
>>quickly scan the contents of this mailbox, read anything that looks
>>interesting and delete the rest. That's what I do. The only problem I see
>>with spam email is wasting Internet bandwidth. 
>
>This particular argument crops up every time someone mentions spam.
>What "set up the appropriate filters" means is: Take a stab at filtering
>the spam.  Then when something slips through, tinker with the filters
>again.  Another one comes through?  No problem.  Just add another rule
>to the filter.  Hmm.  How does that work again?  man procmailex.  Oh yeah.
>
>Not getting any email?  Oops.  The filter was too general.  Someone
>complains that they sent you mail and didn't respond?  Oh yeah.  I
>haven't checked my spam mailbox in a while.

Interesting; I have 3 mailboxes for my incoming mail - MUST Answer, Should
Answer & May Answer. To date, I have not received any spam sent direct To:
pfife@cisco.com; so, all my spam ends up in May Answer.

>
>I don't care for this scenario.  YMMV.
>
>>So, I filter this mailing list to a particular mailbox. I only read it when
>>I want to.
>
>I don't have the option of only reading email when I want to.  And, as you
>mentioned, I don't particularly like any of my limited internet bandwidth
>being eaten by junk email.
>

I read my email approx. 6 hours each day. When I read my May Answer
mailbox, I quickly scan it, read what I want and delete the rest. Maybe the
spammers don't mail me direct or something, but all my spam ends up in May
Answer. I rarely read any of it. So, it works for me so far, that's all I
can say.

Peter

>
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RE: Too Much Mail Volume

[Michael Anthon]

About 10 messages in one day is not very high volume.  I am behind a
firewall and accessing news groups is a problem for me.  I have no
objection to a dual system, but some thought might be put into removing
or distorting mail addresses since junk mailers that harvest news groups
are a real problem.

On Wednesday, 3 December 1997 2:58, Larry Hall (RFK Partners Inc)
[SMTP:lhall@rfk.com] wrote:
> At 08:56 AM 12/2/97 -0500, Martin Carl Grant wrote:
> >> >I second the idea of moving this mailing list to a newsgroup.
> >  
> >> No. This isn't a high traffic mailing list compared to a lot of
other
> >> lists I am on.
> >
> >How about having someone autopost, (using some kind of elm filter),
all
> >mail which originates on this mailing list.
> >
> >Likewise any posts on newsgroup that haven't been sent on the mailing

> >list could be forwarded.
> >
> >That way anyone could subscribe to the mailing list or read the
newsgroup
> >and not miss anything.
> >
> >All we need is a person to write these two scripts, who is also
responsible
> >enough to monitor them.
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------
> >Martin Grant                    "Fight me!" :-) -Martin 
> >www.ici.net/cust_pages/mgrant   "Just call me The Doctor."
> >seer@earthling.net              "Fizban!  Where?"
> >---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> This is a good idea.  May I suggest someone who is interested in
seeing this
> mail list in a newsgroup pick up on this idea?  I, for one, have no
problem
> with the concept of this "group" as a mail list but I think it would
be 
> beneficial to those who like the newsgroup forum better to be able to
access
> it in this form too.  This idea seems to provide that nicely without
forcing
> a complete change of forum for those that are happy with the mail
list.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Larry Hall                              lhall@rfk.com
> RFK Partners, Inc.                      (781) 239-1053
> 8 Grove Street                          (781) 239-1655 - FAX
> Wellesley, MA  02181                             
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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Adam Heath]

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Bellenot <sfb@entropy.math.fsu.edu>
To: gnu-win32@cygnus.com <gnu-win32@cygnus.com>
Date: Sunday, November 30, 1997 6:48 PM
Subject: Too Much Mail Volume


>
>This mailing list has so much volume that I think we would be better
>served with a newsgroup to move the traffic and to provide a FAQ.
>
>How about comp.unix.gnu-win32?
>-

This list does not have high volume.  Last Saturday, Nov 22, one list I am
signed up for had 100 emails between midnight and 2pm.  This is small.  In the
same mail run that I got this email in, I got 18(linux kernel) in another list,
while only 3 here.


 Adam Heath of Borg-Linux adam.heath@usa.net Join the H323 effort.  Email
 http://www.debian.org - Get Your Own Linux! h323-request@cichlid.com with
 http://wwp.mirabilis.com/3375265 - Page Me  the word subscribe in the body.

 Windows 95: --  32-bit extensions and a graphical   Windows v. Linux is
 shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating      a no-win situation.
 originally coded for a 4-bit micropro-
 cessor written by a 2-bit company that   It is nearly impossible to
 can't stand for 1 bit of competition.    look at a penguin and get angry.



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Too Much Mail Volume

[Steven Bellenot]

This mailing list has so much volume that I think we would be better
served with a newsgroup to move the traffic and to provide a FAQ.

How about comp.unix.gnu-win32?
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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Tim Iverson]

Hell yes.  What we need is someone to brush up on newsgroup creation
procedure and put a call-for-vote into the appropriate groups as well as
this list.  If I recall correctly, the process takes about a month.

BTW, comp.unix is not appropriate (gnu-win32 doesn't have anything to do
with Unix).  Probably should be somewhere in comp.os.ms-windows.*,
comp.emulators.*, or gnu.*..  Personally, I'd like it best in something
like gnu.cygnus.win32.


- Tim Iverson
  iverson@lionheart.com

\f
+----------------
| From: Steven Bellenot <sfb@entropy.math.fsu.edu>
| Subject: Too Much Mail Volume
| To: gnu-win32@cygnus.com
| Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:45:07 -0500 (EST)
| 
| This mailing list has so much volume that I think we would be better
| served with a newsgroup to move the traffic and to provide a FAQ.
| 
| How about comp.unix.gnu-win32?
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Re: Too Much Mail Volume

[Paul Garceau]

Greetings,

On 30 Nov 97 at 12:45, the Illustrious Steven Bellenot wrote:

> 
> This mailing list has so much volume that I think we would be better
> served with a newsgroup to move the traffic and to provide a FAQ.

	I tend to agree with this...in two days I've received nearly 100 emails 
from the list.

> 
> How about comp.unix.gnu-win32?

	My suggestion would be comp.programming.gnu-win32.

	Problem is that usenet groups are notorious when it comes to 
spam/UCE and mailing lists are not when you consider the fact that in the 
month or so that I've been subscribed I have only seen two UCEs come 
through based on the mailing list itself.

	The biggest danger with a usenet group is the spam or UCE that such 
usenet groups generate.  If the group were completely moderated that might 
be different.  As we are all probably aware, however, there is not much 
time for anyone who regularly subscribes to this mailing list to moderate 
such a group.

	What about a mailing list specifically defined as a digest of the 
gnu-win32 responses?

	This way, if someone didn't want to deal with the email, they would only 
have to deal with a single (weekly) digest that came out.  If they desired 
to reply to something from the digest, then their email would be cc: to 
the list and any replies to their email would automatically generate a cc: 
to the original author of the "thread" itself.

	The announcement side of the mailing list does something similar except 
that, as far as I know, there are no replies whatsoever generated by the 
mailing list to the originator of the announcement in question.

	Comments?  Feedback?

		Paul G.


Chronicles of Aurum: Book I
      A Journey Into the Fantastic
http://www.submergedsoftware.com/
ICQ#977283
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