From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Weiqi Gao To: cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com Subject: Re: Cygwin participation threshold Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 06:01:00 -0000 Message-id: <36D55851.A9AB772A@a.crl.com> References: <13561.990222@is.lg.ua> <199902221654.LAA07362@envy.delorie.com> <19990222183222023.AAA254@carl_zmola> <19990223214848.A23525@cygnus.com> <19990225005148.53402@mundook.cs.mu.OZ.AU> <19990224121846.A25762@cygnus.com> <36D4C298.32C1C355@a.crl.com> <19990225192303.05069@mundook.cs.mu.OZ.AU> X-SW-Source: 1999-02/msg00820.html Fergus Henderson wrote: > > On 24-Feb-1999, Weiqi Gao wrote: > > > > Windows is too complicated. It usually takes a sharp individual a long > > time (four years?) to become really proficient in Windows. And that > > proficiency usually last a very short time (two years). All of their > > knowledge would have been gained through the continued (and expensive) > > subscription to MSDN. They usually don't feel compelled to contribute > > to anything. > > That doesn't explain why they contribute more to djgpp than to cygwin. There is a sense of the "power of personality" in the DJGPP project. For example, DJ never complained about not enough people contributing. And Eli Zarreskii(?) had never gone into an argument with a user, contributing or not. He's been sending out ten pieces of emails per day for three(?) years now, and fifty percent of them are "Read the FAQ". He's accumulated quite a bunch "lose your temper for free" card now! DOS is also more primitive, simpler, and more UNIX like than Windows. And DJGPP is more kernel like than wrapper/call forwarder/translator like than Cygwin. It is higher on the Cool scale than Cygwin. It's almost the "GNU operating system with the DJGPP kernel". > > It's the culture. Groups of Windows developers would sit around bashing > > Unix. > > But that could well explain it. > > One thing that might help would be better mingw32 support. > That might encourage people who would otherwise use djgpp > to use cygwin instead. But I suppose they still wouldn't > be likely to contribute to the winsup stuff. > > Someone else also commented that people who use cygwin probably > run Linux when they can, and so don't get much chance to play > around with cygwin. I think that is another very likely explanation. Historically, UNIX has gathered all the free software writers because it is accessible and had a free software culture. DOS and Windows lacks it. Here's a challenge: Name as many as you can, any widely spread free software (in the FSF free speech sense) packages that's originated from DOS/Windows. The closest I can come up is an editor called the PFE (Programmers File Editor) which is a Notepad clone. But you can't get the source of it. The fact that Microsoft "owns" Windows might have something to do with it. -- Weiqi Gao weiqigao@a.crl.com -- Quote of the day: --Which is worse, ignorance or indifference --I don't know, and I don't care. -- Want to unsubscribe from this list? Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Weiqi Gao To: cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com Subject: Re: Cygwin participation threshold Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:02:00 -0000 Message-ID: <36D55851.A9AB772A@a.crl.com> References: <13561.990222@is.lg.ua> <199902221654.LAA07362@envy.delorie.com> <19990222183222023.AAA254@carl_zmola> <19990223214848.A23525@cygnus.com> <19990225005148.53402@mundook.cs.mu.OZ.AU> <19990224121846.A25762@cygnus.com> <36D4C298.32C1C355@a.crl.com> <19990225192303.05069@mundook.cs.mu.OZ.AU> X-SW-Source: 1999-02n/msg00819.html Message-ID: <19990228230200.8vUNsNgCONSKmrUp0ExoTHF-QKDhBOO-ZVKHlTrE4KM@z> Fergus Henderson wrote: > > On 24-Feb-1999, Weiqi Gao wrote: > > > > Windows is too complicated. It usually takes a sharp individual a long > > time (four years?) to become really proficient in Windows. And that > > proficiency usually last a very short time (two years). All of their > > knowledge would have been gained through the continued (and expensive) > > subscription to MSDN. They usually don't feel compelled to contribute > > to anything. > > That doesn't explain why they contribute more to djgpp than to cygwin. There is a sense of the "power of personality" in the DJGPP project. For example, DJ never complained about not enough people contributing. And Eli Zarreskii(?) had never gone into an argument with a user, contributing or not. He's been sending out ten pieces of emails per day for three(?) years now, and fifty percent of them are "Read the FAQ". He's accumulated quite a bunch "lose your temper for free" card now! DOS is also more primitive, simpler, and more UNIX like than Windows. And DJGPP is more kernel like than wrapper/call forwarder/translator like than Cygwin. It is higher on the Cool scale than Cygwin. It's almost the "GNU operating system with the DJGPP kernel". > > It's the culture. Groups of Windows developers would sit around bashing > > Unix. > > But that could well explain it. > > One thing that might help would be better mingw32 support. > That might encourage people who would otherwise use djgpp > to use cygwin instead. But I suppose they still wouldn't > be likely to contribute to the winsup stuff. > > Someone else also commented that people who use cygwin probably > run Linux when they can, and so don't get much chance to play > around with cygwin. I think that is another very likely explanation. Historically, UNIX has gathered all the free software writers because it is accessible and had a free software culture. DOS and Windows lacks it. Here's a challenge: Name as many as you can, any widely spread free software (in the FSF free speech sense) packages that's originated from DOS/Windows. The closest I can come up is an editor called the PFE (Programmers File Editor) which is a Notepad clone. But you can't get the source of it. The fact that Microsoft "owns" Windows might have something to do with it. -- Weiqi Gao weiqigao@a.crl.com -- Quote of the day: --Which is worse, ignorance or indifference --I don't know, and I don't care. -- Want to unsubscribe from this list? Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com