Upper case filenames

Upper case filenames

[Ron House]

Thank you for releasing Cygwin. I only have one complaint: 'standard'
DOS 8.3 filenames are interpreted as upper case. The same files in the
same dos filesystem under linus look like lower case, which is obviously
correct because the vast majority of 8.3 filenames map onto legit. lower
case names, all the *.cpp, *.h files etc. This problem means that every
file must be renamed unnecessarily and it breaks all makefiles, which
would otherwise work perfectly under both Linux and Cygwin. In other
words, whatever case Linux thinks a filename has, Cygwin should think
the same. It is Cygwin that is faulty, not Linux.

This is a very small complaint considering the marvellous quality of the
product, but I hope you fix it soon nonetheless.

-- 
Ron House            house@usq.edu.au

The evils of each age always seem self-evidently right at the time.

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Re: Upper case filenames

[Joshua Rosen]

Ron House wrote:

Actually, doesn't DOS write and present file-names as uppercase?
Wouldn't that make the Linux module's file-name-mapping `incorrect',
and Cygwin's `correct'?

Could you give some more detail on why just using lowercase
file-names in the makefile is problematic? Linux sees them as lowercase, and
Cygwin is case-insensitive, so I'd think that everything would be alright.

Are you having problems with detecting things through file-names?

		-Rozzin.

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Re: Upper case filenames

[Joshua Rosen]

Ron House wrote:

Actually, doesn't DOS write and present file-names as uppercase?
Wouldn't that make the Linux module's file-name-mapping `incorrect',
and Cygwin's `correct'?

Could you give some more detail on why just using lowercase
file-names in the makefile is problematic? Linux sees them as lowercase, and
Cygwin is case-insensitive, so I'd think that everything would be alright.

Are you having problems with detecting things through file-names?

		-Rozzin.

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Upper case filenames

[Ron House]

Thank you for releasing Cygwin. I only have one complaint: 'standard'
DOS 8.3 filenames are interpreted as upper case. The same files in the
same dos filesystem under linus look like lower case, which is obviously
correct because the vast majority of 8.3 filenames map onto legit. lower
case names, all the *.cpp, *.h files etc. This problem means that every
file must be renamed unnecessarily and it breaks all makefiles, which
would otherwise work perfectly under both Linux and Cygwin. In other
words, whatever case Linux thinks a filename has, Cygwin should think
the same. It is Cygwin that is faulty, not Linux.

This is a very small complaint considering the marvellous quality of the
product, but I hope you fix it soon nonetheless.

-- 
Ron House            house@usq.edu.au

The evils of each age always seem self-evidently right at the time.

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Re: Upper case filenames

[Joshua Rosen]

Earnie Boyd wrote:
> 
> --- Joshua Rosen <rozzin@geekspace.com> wrote:
> > Ron House wrote:
> >
> > Actually, doesn't DOS write and present file-names as uppercase?
> > Wouldn't that make the Linux module's file-name-mapping `incorrect',
> > and Cygwin's `correct'?
> >
> 
> That may be true of DOS but the DOS console window would present them in the
> case they were created.  However, the original poster was asking about the 8.3
> filename!!  How is it that you get the 8.3 DOS filename with cygwin?

I brought up DOS exactly because he said `8.3';)
	
> As far as I remember the cygwin product is case SENSITIVE.  For instance a file
> prog1.c would be interpreted by gcc to be a C program while PROG1.C would be a
> C++ program.  Try doing `find -name proc1.c' when the filename is actually
> PROG1.C.  The FAT filesystem and the default for the NTFS filesystem is case
> insensitive but case preserving for the long filenames but store the DOS 8.3
> names in UPPERCASE

Yes, quite so....
The Windows console window presents file-names in whatever case they're created
is true, but, in addition to that it doesn't present the 8.3 names;)...:
	+DOS and win16 applications always create uppercase file-names
	+when a Windows file has a `long' file-name, the accompanying 8.3 file-name
that's created for it is uppercase


>, so your point that Linux is incorrect would be correct if
> Linux is showing the 8.3 DOS filename in lowercase but I'm not that familiar
> with FAT emulation on Linux.

If you mount as type=msdos, all files are mapped to lower-case names.
If you mount as VFAT, all -mixed-case- names have their Windows cases preserved
(ie: `foObAr' is mapped to `foObAr'); all-caps and all-lower-case names are
mapped to all-lowercase (ie: `FOOBAR' is mapped to `foobar')--I'm guessing that
the reasoning behind this is the same as that behind the default behaviour of
downcasing of all-caps file-names in Windows' Explorer (I turned that off a long
time ago with TweakUI...): the system assumes that it is uppercase because it
was created by, an old DOS/win16 app, not because the user wanted it that way.

While GCC is case-sensitive, Cygwin doesn't appear to be inherently
case-sensitive (try opening/viewing two files whos names differ only in case,
like `ls foo FOO').

I don't believe that Cygwin should `make it look like linux'--it should use the
file-names returned by the system that it's running on.

Hrm....

I don't recall if TweakUI changes the `downcase everything' behaviour in
Windows, or just in Explorer--I'll look at it next time I reboot (though I
imagine that anyone interested can look for themselves, sooner;)).

Maybe the problems with case could be solved, locally, by running all of the
file-names through `tr [:uppercase:] [:lowercase:]'--I'd favour that over
munging the case information in the base system, because the latter approach
-completely- disables it, while the former would allow you to use whichever
mapping scheme you want.

			-Rozzin.

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Re: Upper case filenames

[Earnie Boyd]

--- Joshua Rosen <rozzin@geekspace.com> wrote:
> Ron House wrote:
> 
> Actually, doesn't DOS write and present file-names as uppercase?
> Wouldn't that make the Linux module's file-name-mapping `incorrect',
> and Cygwin's `correct'?
> 

That may be true of DOS but the DOS console window would present them in the
case they were created.  However, the original poster was asking about the 8.3
filename!!  How is it that you get the 8.3 DOS filename with cygwin?

> Could you give some more detail on why just using lowercase
> file-names in the makefile is problematic? Linux sees them as lowercase, and
> Cygwin is case-insensitive, so I'd think that everything would be alright.
> 

As far as I remember the cygwin product is case SENSITIVE.  For instance a file
prog1.c would be interpreted by gcc to be a C program while PROG1.C would be a
C++ program.  Try doing `find -name proc1.c' when the filename is actually
PROG1.C.  The FAT filesystem and the default for the NTFS filesystem is case
insensitive but case preserving for the long filenames but store the DOS 8.3
names in UPPERCASE, so your point that Linux is incorrect would be correct if
Linux is showing the 8.3 DOS filename in lowercase but I'm not that familiar
with FAT emulation on Linux.


> Are you having problems with detecting things through file-names?
> 
> 		-Rozzin.
> 
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> Want to unsubscribe from this list?
> Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com
> 
> 

===
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Re: Upper case filenames

[Earnie Boyd]

--- Joshua Rosen <rozzin@geekspace.com> wrote:
> Earnie Boyd wrote:
> > That may be true of DOS but the DOS console window would present them in
> the
> > case they were created.  However, the original poster was asking about the
> 8.3
> > filename!!  How is it that you get the 8.3 DOS filename with cygwin?
> 
> I brought up DOS exactly because he said `8.3';)
> 	

That was my point.  CYGWIN doesn't run under DOS, so how do you get the 8.3 DOS
filename with CYGWIN?
===
Earnie Boyd < mailto:earnie_boyd@yahoo.com >

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Re: Upper case filenames

[Earnie Boyd]

--- Joshua Rosen <rozzin@geekspace.com> wrote:
> Earnie Boyd wrote:
> > That may be true of DOS but the DOS console window would present them in
> the
> > case they were created.  However, the original poster was asking about the
> 8.3
> > filename!!  How is it that you get the 8.3 DOS filename with cygwin?
> 
> I brought up DOS exactly because he said `8.3';)
> 	

That was my point.  CYGWIN doesn't run under DOS, so how do you get the 8.3 DOS
filename with CYGWIN?
===
Earnie Boyd < mailto:earnie_boyd@yahoo.com >

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< http://www.freeyellow.com/members5/gw32/index.html >

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Re: Upper case filenames

[Joshua Rosen]

Earnie Boyd wrote:
> 
> --- Joshua Rosen <rozzin@geekspace.com> wrote:
> > Ron House wrote:
> >
> > Actually, doesn't DOS write and present file-names as uppercase?
> > Wouldn't that make the Linux module's file-name-mapping `incorrect',
> > and Cygwin's `correct'?
> >
> 
> That may be true of DOS but the DOS console window would present them in the
> case they were created.  However, the original poster was asking about the 8.3
> filename!!  How is it that you get the 8.3 DOS filename with cygwin?

I brought up DOS exactly because he said `8.3';)
	
> As far as I remember the cygwin product is case SENSITIVE.  For instance a file
> prog1.c would be interpreted by gcc to be a C program while PROG1.C would be a
> C++ program.  Try doing `find -name proc1.c' when the filename is actually
> PROG1.C.  The FAT filesystem and the default for the NTFS filesystem is case
> insensitive but case preserving for the long filenames but store the DOS 8.3
> names in UPPERCASE

Yes, quite so....
The Windows console window presents file-names in whatever case they're created
is true, but, in addition to that it doesn't present the 8.3 names;)...:
	+DOS and win16 applications always create uppercase file-names
	+when a Windows file has a `long' file-name, the accompanying 8.3 file-name
that's created for it is uppercase


>, so your point that Linux is incorrect would be correct if
> Linux is showing the 8.3 DOS filename in lowercase but I'm not that familiar
> with FAT emulation on Linux.

If you mount as type=msdos, all files are mapped to lower-case names.
If you mount as VFAT, all -mixed-case- names have their Windows cases preserved
(ie: `foObAr' is mapped to `foObAr'); all-caps and all-lower-case names are
mapped to all-lowercase (ie: `FOOBAR' is mapped to `foobar')--I'm guessing that
the reasoning behind this is the same as that behind the default behaviour of
downcasing of all-caps file-names in Windows' Explorer (I turned that off a long
time ago with TweakUI...): the system assumes that it is uppercase because it
was created by, an old DOS/win16 app, not because the user wanted it that way.

While GCC is case-sensitive, Cygwin doesn't appear to be inherently
case-sensitive (try opening/viewing two files whos names differ only in case,
like `ls foo FOO').

I don't believe that Cygwin should `make it look like linux'--it should use the
file-names returned by the system that it's running on.

Hrm....

I don't recall if TweakUI changes the `downcase everything' behaviour in
Windows, or just in Explorer--I'll look at it next time I reboot (though I
imagine that anyone interested can look for themselves, sooner;)).

Maybe the problems with case could be solved, locally, by running all of the
file-names through `tr [:uppercase:] [:lowercase:]'--I'd favour that over
munging the case information in the base system, because the latter approach
-completely- disables it, while the former would allow you to use whichever
mapping scheme you want.

			-Rozzin.

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Re: Upper case filenames

[Earnie Boyd]

--- Joshua Rosen <rozzin@geekspace.com> wrote:
> Ron House wrote:
> 
> Actually, doesn't DOS write and present file-names as uppercase?
> Wouldn't that make the Linux module's file-name-mapping `incorrect',
> and Cygwin's `correct'?
> 

That may be true of DOS but the DOS console window would present them in the
case they were created.  However, the original poster was asking about the 8.3
filename!!  How is it that you get the 8.3 DOS filename with cygwin?

> Could you give some more detail on why just using lowercase
> file-names in the makefile is problematic? Linux sees them as lowercase, and
> Cygwin is case-insensitive, so I'd think that everything would be alright.
> 

As far as I remember the cygwin product is case SENSITIVE.  For instance a file
prog1.c would be interpreted by gcc to be a C program while PROG1.C would be a
C++ program.  Try doing `find -name proc1.c' when the filename is actually
PROG1.C.  The FAT filesystem and the default for the NTFS filesystem is case
insensitive but case preserving for the long filenames but store the DOS 8.3
names in UPPERCASE, so your point that Linux is incorrect would be correct if
Linux is showing the 8.3 DOS filename in lowercase but I'm not that familiar
with FAT emulation on Linux.


> Are you having problems with detecting things through file-names?
> 
> 		-Rozzin.
> 
> --
> Want to unsubscribe from this list?
> Send a message to cygwin-unsubscribe@sourceware.cygnus.com
> 
> 

===
Earnie Boyd < mailto:earnie_boyd@yahoo.com >

Newbies, please visit
< http://www.freeyellow.com/members5/gw32/index.html >

(If you respond to the list, then please don't cc me)
_________________________________________________________
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