Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Nuno Bandeira]

  I have already checked in the FAQ, User Manual and mailing lists archives and
haven't been able to find any reference on how to solve this problem.
  What happens is that whenever I run bash using the standard supplied cygnus 
icon, everything works just fine (environment, bashrc, HOME) except the cursor
keys... I can't edit my command line neither browse through bash's history.
  I have a /etc with the supplied termcap (I am using B20.1) and I have also
tried with no /etc/termcap. According to the archives this should lead to a
built-in table in libtermcap being used... still nothing happens.
  Any help or thoughts on the subject would be greatly appreciated.

-- 
---
Nuno Bandeira                      | email: nb@di.fct.unl.pt
Universidade Nova de Lisboa        | Tel: +351-1-294 8536 (ext.0766)
Faculdade de Ciencias e Tecnologia | Fax: +351-1-294 8541
Dept.Informatica - Qta. da Torre, 2825-114 Caparica, PORTUGAL

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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Michael Weiser]

Hello Nuno, you wrote:
>  What happens is that whenever I run bash using the standard supplied cygnus 
>icon, everything works just fine (environment, bashrc, HOME) except the cursor
>keys... I can't edit my command line neither browse through bash's history.
A friend of mine had the same problem with his German Win98 and after
a lot of searching in the mailing list archives, creative guessing and
just trying all weird keys I ever thought of I figured out, that at
least for him it works when he enables Num-Lock and uses the cursor
key representations on the numeric key block instead.

To Cygwin developers: Is this a known issue or should I compile some
information about it and send it to you?
-- 
bye, Michael

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Re[2]: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Paul Sokolovsky]

Hello Michael,

Michael Weiser <michael@weiser.saale-net.de> wrote:

>>  What happens is that whenever I run bash using the standard supplied cygnus
>>icon, everything works just fine (environment, bashrc, HOME) except the cursor
>>keys... I can't edit my command line neither browse through bash's history.
[]
MW> To Cygwin developers: Is this a known issue or should I compile some
MW> information about it and send it to you?

    It is known issue and really FAQ here. NEVER-EVER use m$
localizers for your console font/keyboard layout (keyb and stuff)!
Use your favorite local localizer you used last 10 years
(keyrus for cyrillic, for example). (It doesn't mean you won't have
problems with it, but probably problems won't be so stupid as
inability to use cursor keys).

MW> bye, Michael


Best regards,
 Paul                            mailto:paul-ml@is.lg.ua



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Re: Re[2]: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Michael Weiser]

Hello Paul, you wrote:
>>>  What happens is that whenever I run bash using the standard supplied cygnus
>>>icon, everything works just fine (environment, bashrc, HOME) except the cursor
>>>keys... I can't edit my command line neither browse through bash's history.
>[]
>MW> To Cygwin developers: Is this a known issue or should I compile some
>MW> information about it and send it to you?
>    It is known issue and really FAQ here. NEVER-EVER use m$
Oh, sorry, I didn't know that. I follow this list regularly and didn't
ever see something useful on that concern. I read the FAQ, searched
the list archives on every phrase that might mean cursor keys and just
completed another grep over my local archive. Can you please tell me
where I missed it?
-- 
bye, Michael

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Re: Re[2]: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Chris Faylor]

On Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 08:39:59PM +0000, Michael Weiser wrote:
>Hello Paul, you wrote:
>>>>  What happens is that whenever I run bash using the standard supplied cygnus
>>>>icon, everything works just fine (environment, bashrc, HOME) except the cursor
>>>>keys... I can't edit my command line neither browse through bash's history.
>>[]
>>MW> To Cygwin developers: Is this a known issue or should I compile some
>>MW> information about it and send it to you?
>>    It is known issue and really FAQ here. NEVER-EVER use m$
>Oh, sorry, I didn't know that. I follow this list regularly and didn't
>ever see something useful on that concern. I read the FAQ, searched
>the list archives on every phrase that might mean cursor keys and just
>completed another grep over my local archive. Can you please tell me
>where I missed it?

Can someone provide a FAQ entry for this, please?  I don't understand
what's going on or how to work around it.

-chris

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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Nuno Bandeira]

Paul Sokolovsky wrote:
> >>  What happens is that whenever I run bash using the standard supplied cygnus
> >>icon, everything works just fine (environment, bashrc, HOME) except the cursor
> >>keys... I can't edit my command line neither browse through bash's history.

>     It is known issue and really FAQ here. NEVER-EVER use m$
> localizers for your console font/keyboard layout (keyb and stuff)!
> Use your favorite local localizer you used last 10 years
> (keyrus for cyrillic, for example). (It doesn't mean you won't have
> problems with it, but probably problems won't be so stupid as
> inability to use cursor keys).

  Well, it _is_ boring to see the same questions asked again and again, and 
if this is the case, then this should be a good candidate for inclusion in
the FAQ (any FAQ mantainers here?)... As I said in my original posting I
_did_ searched through the FAQ and message archives with no success, so
thanks for bearing with this question _again_.

  Nevertheless, I would be a much happier person if I could understand your
answer :). Where is the default localizer configured and how could I 
reconfigure it ?  Any man pages, helps, FAQs or howtos on this ?

  Best regards,

---
Nuno Bandeira
nb@di.fct.unl.pt

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Re[2]: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Paul Sokolovsky]

Hello Nuno,

Nuno Bandeira <nb@di.fct.unl.pt> wrote:

>>     It is known issue and really FAQ here. NEVER-EVER use m$
>> localizers
[]
NB>   Well, it _is_ boring to see the same questions asked again and again, and
NB> if this is the case, then this should be a good candidate for inclusion in
NB> the FAQ (any FAQ mantainers here?)... As I said in my original posting I
NB> _did_ searched through the FAQ and message archives with no success, so
NB> thanks for bearing with this question _again_.

NB>   Nevertheless, I would be a much happier person if I could understand your
NB> answer :). Where is the default localizer configured and how could I
NB> reconfigure it ?  Any man pages, helps, FAQs or howtos on this ?

    Ok, what about something like this?
--------------
Q: Why cursor keys doesn't work under Win95/Win98?
A: Careful examination shows that they not just non-functional, but
rather behave strangely, for example, with NumLock off, keys on numeric
keyboard work, until you press usual cursor keys, when even numeric
stop working, but they start working again after hitting alphanumeric
key, etc. This reported to happen on localized versions of Win98 and
Win95, and not specific to Cygwin (there're known cases of Alt+Enter
(fullscreen/windowed toggle) not working and shifts sticking with
other programs). The cause of this problem is Miscrosoft keyboard
localizer which by default installed in 'autoexec.bat'. Corresponding
line looks like:

           keyb ru,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\keybrd3.sys

(That's for russian locale.) You should comment that line if you want
your keys working properly. Of course, this will deprive you of your
local alphabet keyboard support, so you should think about
another localizer. exUSSR users are of course knowledgable of Keyrus
localizer, and it might work for other locales too, since it has keyboard
layout editor. But it has russian messages and documentation ;-(
Reference URL is http://www.hnet.ru/software/contrib/Utils/KeyRus/
(note the you may need to turn off Windows logo for Keyrus to operate
properly).
--------------

    Not for FAQ: so that's right solution, IMHO, - bugs should be
corrected where they come from from. However, I know at least one
program which works properly with keyb (oh, well, forget to say that
my own code suffers that problem too and I saw that PeekConsoleInput()
really doesn't respond to cursor key press!). Sergey Okhapkin is
probably person to ask - he's author of my code and told he knows how
to do it right.


NB>   Best regards,

NB> ---
NB> Nuno Bandeira
NB> nb@di.fct.unl.pt




Best regards,
 Paul                            mailto:paul-ml@is.lg.ua



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Re: Re[2]: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Michael Weiser]

Hello Chris, you wrote:
>>>MW> To Cygwin developers: Is this a known issue or should I compile some
>>>MW> information about it and send it to you?
>>>    It is known issue and really FAQ here. NEVER-EVER use m$
>>Oh, sorry, I didn't know that. I follow this list regularly and didn't
>Can someone provide a FAQ entry for this, please?  I don't understand
>what's going on or how to work around it.
I'd love to do so if someone pointed me to some useful resource.
Or do you just mean some paragraph mentioning, that this is a known
issue and even you don't have an idea how to work around it? That
wouldn't be much of a problem.
-- 
bis denne, Micha
Ich bin gegen Hueftknochen!

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Re: Re[2]: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Chris Faylor]

On Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 03:53:12PM +0000, Michael Weiser wrote:
>Hello Chris, you wrote:
>>>>MW> To Cygwin developers: Is this a known issue or should I compile some
>>>>MW> information about it and send it to you?
>>>>    It is known issue and really FAQ here. NEVER-EVER use m$
>>>Oh, sorry, I didn't know that. I follow this list regularly and didn't
>>Can someone provide a FAQ entry for this, please?  I don't understand
>>what's going on or how to work around it.
>I'd love to do so if someone pointed me to some useful resource.
>Or do you just mean some paragraph mentioning, that this is a known
>issue and even you don't have an idea how to work around it? That
>wouldn't be much of a problem.

I was under the impression that others had worked around this problem.
Since Cygwin does little besides notice that a specific key is hit, I
don't understand why there is a problem.

cgf

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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Nuno Bandeira]

  Hi Paul,

Paul Sokolovsky wrote:
> Nuno Bandeira <nb@di.fct.unl.pt> wrote:
> NB>   Nevertheless, I would be a much happier person if I could understand your
> NB> answer :). Where is the default localizer configured and how could I
> NB> reconfigure it ?  Any man pages, helps, FAQs or howtos on this ?
> 
>     Ok, what about something like this?
> --------------
> Q: Why cursor keys doesn't work under Win95/Win98?
> A: [ ... ]

  Ahhhh, you meant Windows keyb in autoexec.bat! That thought would never
cross my mind because everything works just fine in every Win98/command.com
application. My problem is specifically with the default cygwin bash window,
so I don't think I'll be messing around with my Windows config for what is
probably a known problem.
  Anyway, if the developers are interested I can gather information about 
my system and mail it. For starters I am using an english Win98 with a
Pt (Portuguese standard) keyboard and a keyb po,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\keyboard.sys
line in my autoexec.bat.

  I worked around this problem by using rxvt-2.6PRE2-w32z (updates in 
http://www.io.com/~bub/rxvt.html ) and everything works just fine.

  Thanks for your help anyway.

  Best regards,

---
Nuno Bandeira
nb@di.fct.unl.pt

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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Chris Faylor]

On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 04:35:01PM +0100, Nuno Bandeira wrote:
> Ahhhh, you meant Windows keyb in autoexec.bat! That thought would never
>cross my mind because everything works just fine in every Win98/command.com
>application. My problem is specifically with the default cygwin bash window,
>so I don't think I'll be messing around with my Windows config for what is
>probably a known problem.

My impression was that people had found ways to fix this problem.

The Cygwin code uses standard Win32 API calls to get it's keystrokes.
I have no idea why there would be problems with arrow keys and I'm not
going to be much help debugging the problem.

This will require a cygwin developer (Sergey or Corinna perhaps) who use
a non-US keyboard to isolate and fix the problem, if there is a problem.

-chris

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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Chris Faylor]

On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 11:11:38PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
>But there are more problems with keystrokes that are not specific to
>cygwin but are nevertheless disturbing. Example vi: When I learnt
>using vi, I learnt three commands which are very convenient:
>
>	Ctrl + 6	change to alternative file
>	Ctrl + ^	ditto
>	Ctrl + ]	goto tag under cursor
>
>All commands never worked with a vi under cygwin. AFAIK this is a
>problem of native keyboards under win32. The key combinations
>doesn't unfortunately generate any ascii characters. On the german
>keyboard the circumflex is a dead key for national characters (though
>not existing in german language), the brackets are only reached by
>using the right Alt key (Alt Gr).

Ok.  This one I understand.  There would probably be no problem adding
this functionality.

>Conclusion: The cursor problem of 9X and special key handlings
>on native keyboards will result in problems for all times.
>I would be glad, if there would be a solution to make a special key
>mapping in cygwin that is independent of [no]tty setting and used OS.
>This could be e.g. a .cygkey file in the home directory or something
>comparable.
>IMHO, this should be addressed in the future (b22).

Yep.  We could have some kind of capability which allowed you to define
keys, similar to linux.

That's definitely B22 functionality.

-chris

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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Chris Faylor]

On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 06:38:09PM -0400, Chris Faylor wrote:
>On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 11:11:38PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
>>But there are more problems with keystrokes that are not specific to
>>cygwin but are nevertheless disturbing. Example vi: When I learnt
>>using vi, I learnt three commands which are very convenient:
>>
>>	Ctrl + 6	change to alternative file
>>	Ctrl + ^	ditto
>>	Ctrl + ]	goto tag under cursor
>>
>>All commands never worked with a vi under cygwin. AFAIK this is a
>>problem of native keyboards under win32. The key combinations
>>doesn't unfortunately generate any ascii characters. On the german
>>keyboard the circumflex is a dead key for national characters (though
>>not existing in german language), the brackets are only reached by
>>using the right Alt key (Alt Gr).
>
>Ok.  This one I understand.  There would probably be no problem adding
>this functionality.

Actually, I just tried ctrl-6 and ctrl-] and both "work form me".

-chris

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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Glenn Spell]

On 22 Aug 1999 around 6:41PM (-0400) Chris Faylor wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 06:38:09PM -0400, Chris Faylor wrote:
>
> >On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 11:11:38PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> >
> >>All commands never worked with a vi under cygwin.
>
> Actually, I just tried ctrl-6 and ctrl-] and both "work form me".

What program are you using as 'vi'?

-glenn

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  ________________________________________      _       _____
 )                                        )_ _ (__\____o /_/_ |
 )    Glenn Spell <glenn@gs.fay.nc.us>    )     >-----._/_/__]>
 )________________________________________)               `0  |

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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Corinna Vinschen]

Chris Faylor wrote:
> [...]
> The Cygwin code uses standard Win32 API calls to get it's keystrokes.
> I have no idea why there would be problems with arrow keys and I'm not
> going to be much help debugging the problem.
> 
> This will require a cygwin developer (Sergey or Corinna perhaps) who use
> a non-US keyboard to isolate and fix the problem, if there is a problem.

I can't. This doesn't happen on NT and I don't use 9X.

But there are more problems with keystrokes that are not specific to
cygwin but are nevertheless disturbing. Example vi: When I learnt
using vi, I learnt three commands which are very convenient:

	Ctrl + 6	change to alternative file
	Ctrl + ^	ditto
	Ctrl + ]	goto tag under cursor

All commands never worked with a vi under cygwin. AFAIK this is a
problem of native keyboards under win32. The key combinations
doesn't unfortunately generate any ascii characters. On the german
keyboard the circumflex is a dead key for national characters (though
not existing in german language), the brackets are only reached by
using the right Alt key (Alt Gr).

Conclusion: The cursor problem of 9X and special key handlings
on native keyboards will result in problems for all times.
I would be glad, if there would be a solution to make a special key
mapping in cygwin that is independent of [no]tty setting and used OS.
This could be e.g. a .cygkey file in the home directory or something
comparable.
IMHO, this should be addressed in the future (b22).

Regards,
Corinna



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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Corinna Vinschen]

Chris Faylor wrote:
> >On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 11:11:38PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> >[...]
> >>All commands never worked with a vi under cygwin. AFAIK this is a
> >>problem of native keyboards under win32. The key combinations
> >>doesn't unfortunately generate any ascii characters. On the german

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Remember this...

> Actually, I just tried ctrl-6 and ctrl-] and both "work form me".

Congratulations!
Maybe you are using an american keyboard? ;)

BTW: When I use american keyboard layout with my german keyboard the
ctrl-] works but ctrl-6 and ctrl-^ (Ahhh, I see, it's the same key on
american keyboards... now I remember again...) still doesn't work.

Glenn Spell wrote:
> What program are you using as 'vi'?

Good question. I'm using vim 5.3, cygwin w/o gui build by Michael
Hirmke from
ftp://ftp.franken.de/pub/win32/develop/gnuwin32/cygwin/porters/Hirmke_Michael/B20

Regards,
Corinna



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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Nuno Bandeira]

Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> 
> Chris Faylor wrote:
> > >On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 11:11:38PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> > >[...]
> > >>All commands never worked with a vi under cygwin. AFAIK this is a
> > >>problem of native keyboards under win32. The key combinations
> > >>doesn't unfortunately generate any ascii characters. On the german
> 
>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     Remember this...

  Well, then I guess rxvt must be using any other way of processing keyboard 
input, because it works just fine for me.
  Maybe a paradigm shift is in order for future cygwin keyboard handling 
versions? :)
  
  Best regards,

---
Nuno Bandeira
nb@di.fct.unl.pt

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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Corinna Vinschen]

Nuno Bandeira wrote:
> 
> Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> >
> > Chris Faylor wrote:
> > > >On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 11:11:38PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> > > >[...]
> > > >>All commands never worked with a vi under cygwin. AFAIK this is a
> > > >>problem of native keyboards under win32. The key combinations
> > > >>doesn't unfortunately generate any ascii characters. On the german
> >
> >     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >     Remember this...
> 
>   Well, then I guess rxvt must be using any other way of processing keyboard
> input, because it works just fine for me.
>   Maybe a paradigm shift is in order for future cygwin keyboard handling
> versions? :)

Wow!

I have tried it just now. You're right, it works. But why???

It doesn't work with standard NT console window, regardless of the
setting of [no]tty and it also doesn't work in a terminal emulation
window (TeraTerm 2.3) via Sergey's telnet.

Corinna


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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Chris Faylor]

On Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 11:15:49AM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
>Chris Faylor wrote:
>> >On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 11:11:38PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
>> >[...]
>> >>All commands never worked with a vi under cygwin. AFAIK this is a
>> >>problem of native keyboards under win32. The key combinations
>> >>doesn't unfortunately generate any ascii characters. On the german
>
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>    Remember this...
>
>> Actually, I just tried ctrl-6 and ctrl-] and both "work form me".
>
>Congratulations!
>Maybe you are using an american keyboard? ;)

Ah.  Yes.  The fact that I was using an American keyboard was kinda what
started this.  Remember?

>BTW: When I use american keyboard layout with my german keyboard the
>ctrl-] works but ctrl-6 and ctrl-^ (Ahhh, I see, it's the same key on
>american keyboards... now I remember again...) still doesn't work.
>
>Glenn Spell wrote:
>> What program are you using as 'vi'?
>
>Good question. I'm using vim 5.3, cygwin w/o gui build by Michael

I'm using vim 5.0, built by me.

-chris

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Re: Re[2]: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Michael Weiser]

Hello Chris, you wrote:
>>I'd love to do so if someone pointed me to some useful resource.
>>Or do you just mean some paragraph mentioning, that this is a known
>>issue and even you don't have an idea how to work around it? That
>>wouldn't be much of a problem.
>I was under the impression that others had worked around this problem.
>Since Cygwin does little besides notice that a specific key is hit, I
>don't understand why there is a problem.
I'd be glad to give you a hint if I could. But aside from just
fiddling with the problem I'm reading every word said on that thread
and will of course let you know about any information I gain.
-- 
bye, Michael

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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Corinna Vinschen]

Chris Faylor wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 11:15:49AM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> >Chris Faylor wrote:
> >> >On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 11:11:38PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> >> >[...]
> >> >>All commands never worked with a vi under cygwin. AFAIK this is a
> >> >>problem of native keyboards under win32. The key combinations
> >> >>doesn't unfortunately generate any ascii characters. On the german
> >
> >    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >    Remember this...
> >
> >> Actually, I just tried ctrl-6 and ctrl-] and both "work form me".
> >
> >Congratulations!
> >Maybe you are using an american keyboard? ;)
> 
> Ah.  Yes.  The fact that I was using an American keyboard was kinda what
> started this.  Remember?
> 
> >BTW: When I use american keyboard layout with my german keyboard the
> >ctrl-] works but ctrl-6 and ctrl-^ (Ahhh, I see, it's the same key on
> >american keyboards... now I remember again...) still doesn't work.

Hi!

Maybe, this mail is a bit painful for me but I have really never tested
it before:

After checking the german keyboard settings more detailed, I found that
the above mentioned command yet work!

It seems that on non-american keyboards the control characters are
generated by the same _keys_ as on the american keyboard and not by
the keys with the corresponding ascii character as I have expected.

The following appears on the german keyboard:

- ctrl-6 is really a ctrl-^ which is ASCII \036.
  The circumflex is generated with shift-6 on am. keyb.
  So the same ascii code is generated by ctrl-shift-6 on ge. keyb.

- ctrl-] is ASCII \035.
  The right bracket is generated by the rightmost key in the second
  row (the row with the TAB key) besides the return key on am. keyb.
  So the same ascii code is generated by ctrl-+ on ge. keyb.

- Moreover I found: ctrl-\ is ASCII \034.
  The backslash is generated by the rightmost key in the third row
  besides the return key on the am. keyb.
  So the same ascii code is generated by ctrl-# on ge. keyb.

Chris, your tiny patch to fhandler_console.cc to let ctrl-6 work
as ASCII \036 works in console window on ge. keyb., too, so I think
it will work on any native keyboard layout with latin character set.

Of course, in a terminal emulation one has to use the standard keys
as described above (ctrl-shift-6, ctrl-+ and ctrl-# on ge. keyb.).

I would be _very_ interested in experiences with other native
keyboards. Would other readers of this mailing list be so kind to
tell me, if the mentioned control characters are generated in the
same way on their keyboards?

Best Regards,
Corinna

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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Nuno Bandeira]

Paul Sokolovsky wrote:
> >>  What happens is that whenever I run bash using the standard supplied cygnus
> >>icon, everything works just fine (environment, bashrc, HOME) except the cursor
> >>keys... I can't edit my command line neither browse through bash's history.

>     It is known issue and really FAQ here. NEVER-EVER use m$
> localizers for your console font/keyboard layout (keyb and stuff)!
> Use your favorite local localizer you used last 10 years
> (keyrus for cyrillic, for example). (It doesn't mean you won't have
> problems with it, but probably problems won't be so stupid as
> inability to use cursor keys).

  Well, it _is_ boring to see the same questions asked again and again, and 
if this is the case, then this should be a good candidate for inclusion in
the FAQ (any FAQ mantainers here?)... As I said in my original posting I
_did_ searched through the FAQ and message archives with no success, so
thanks for bearing with this question _again_.

  Nevertheless, I would be a much happier person if I could understand your
answer :). Where is the default localizer configured and how could I 
reconfigure it ?  Any man pages, helps, FAQs or howtos on this ?

  Best regards,

---
Nuno Bandeira
nb@di.fct.unl.pt

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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Chris Faylor]

On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 04:35:01PM +0100, Nuno Bandeira wrote:
> Ahhhh, you meant Windows keyb in autoexec.bat! That thought would never
>cross my mind because everything works just fine in every Win98/command.com
>application. My problem is specifically with the default cygwin bash window,
>so I don't think I'll be messing around with my Windows config for what is
>probably a known problem.

My impression was that people had found ways to fix this problem.

The Cygwin code uses standard Win32 API calls to get it's keystrokes.
I have no idea why there would be problems with arrow keys and I'm not
going to be much help debugging the problem.

This will require a cygwin developer (Sergey or Corinna perhaps) who use
a non-US keyboard to isolate and fix the problem, if there is a problem.

-chris

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Re: Re[2]: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Michael Weiser]

Hello Chris, you wrote:
>>>MW> To Cygwin developers: Is this a known issue or should I compile some
>>>MW> information about it and send it to you?
>>>    It is known issue and really FAQ here. NEVER-EVER use m$
>>Oh, sorry, I didn't know that. I follow this list regularly and didn't
>Can someone provide a FAQ entry for this, please?  I don't understand
>what's going on or how to work around it.
I'd love to do so if someone pointed me to some useful resource.
Or do you just mean some paragraph mentioning, that this is a known
issue and even you don't have an idea how to work around it? That
wouldn't be much of a problem.
-- 
bis denne, Micha
Ich bin gegen Hueftknochen!

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Re[2]: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Paul Sokolovsky]

Hello Nuno,

Nuno Bandeira <nb@di.fct.unl.pt> wrote:

>>     It is known issue and really FAQ here. NEVER-EVER use m$
>> localizers
[]
NB>   Well, it _is_ boring to see the same questions asked again and again, and
NB> if this is the case, then this should be a good candidate for inclusion in
NB> the FAQ (any FAQ mantainers here?)... As I said in my original posting I
NB> _did_ searched through the FAQ and message archives with no success, so
NB> thanks for bearing with this question _again_.

NB>   Nevertheless, I would be a much happier person if I could understand your
NB> answer :). Where is the default localizer configured and how could I
NB> reconfigure it ?  Any man pages, helps, FAQs or howtos on this ?

    Ok, what about something like this?
--------------
Q: Why cursor keys doesn't work under Win95/Win98?
A: Careful examination shows that they not just non-functional, but
rather behave strangely, for example, with NumLock off, keys on numeric
keyboard work, until you press usual cursor keys, when even numeric
stop working, but they start working again after hitting alphanumeric
key, etc. This reported to happen on localized versions of Win98 and
Win95, and not specific to Cygwin (there're known cases of Alt+Enter
(fullscreen/windowed toggle) not working and shifts sticking with
other programs). The cause of this problem is Miscrosoft keyboard
localizer which by default installed in 'autoexec.bat'. Corresponding
line looks like:

           keyb ru,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\keybrd3.sys

(That's for russian locale.) You should comment that line if you want
your keys working properly. Of course, this will deprive you of your
local alphabet keyboard support, so you should think about
another localizer. exUSSR users are of course knowledgable of Keyrus
localizer, and it might work for other locales too, since it has keyboard
layout editor. But it has russian messages and documentation ;-(
Reference URL is http://www.hnet.ru/software/contrib/Utils/KeyRus/
(note the you may need to turn off Windows logo for Keyrus to operate
properly).
--------------

    Not for FAQ: so that's right solution, IMHO, - bugs should be
corrected where they come from from. However, I know at least one
program which works properly with keyb (oh, well, forget to say that
my own code suffers that problem too and I saw that PeekConsoleInput()
really doesn't respond to cursor key press!). Sergey Okhapkin is
probably person to ask - he's author of my code and told he knows how
to do it right.


NB>   Best regards,

NB> ---
NB> Nuno Bandeira
NB> nb@di.fct.unl.pt




Best regards,
 Paul                            mailto:paul-ml@is.lg.ua



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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Corinna Vinschen]

Chris Faylor wrote:
> [...]
> The Cygwin code uses standard Win32 API calls to get it's keystrokes.
> I have no idea why there would be problems with arrow keys and I'm not
> going to be much help debugging the problem.
> 
> This will require a cygwin developer (Sergey or Corinna perhaps) who use
> a non-US keyboard to isolate and fix the problem, if there is a problem.

I can't. This doesn't happen on NT and I don't use 9X.

But there are more problems with keystrokes that are not specific to
cygwin but are nevertheless disturbing. Example vi: When I learnt
using vi, I learnt three commands which are very convenient:

	Ctrl + 6	change to alternative file
	Ctrl + ^	ditto
	Ctrl + ]	goto tag under cursor

All commands never worked with a vi under cygwin. AFAIK this is a
problem of native keyboards under win32. The key combinations
doesn't unfortunately generate any ascii characters. On the german
keyboard the circumflex is a dead key for national characters (though
not existing in german language), the brackets are only reached by
using the right Alt key (Alt Gr).

Conclusion: The cursor problem of 9X and special key handlings
on native keyboards will result in problems for all times.
I would be glad, if there would be a solution to make a special key
mapping in cygwin that is independent of [no]tty setting and used OS.
This could be e.g. a .cygkey file in the home directory or something
comparable.
IMHO, this should be addressed in the future (b22).

Regards,
Corinna



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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Corinna Vinschen]

Chris Faylor wrote:
> >On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 11:11:38PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> >[...]
> >>All commands never worked with a vi under cygwin. AFAIK this is a
> >>problem of native keyboards under win32. The key combinations
> >>doesn't unfortunately generate any ascii characters. On the german

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Remember this...

> Actually, I just tried ctrl-6 and ctrl-] and both "work form me".

Congratulations!
Maybe you are using an american keyboard? ;)

BTW: When I use american keyboard layout with my german keyboard the
ctrl-] works but ctrl-6 and ctrl-^ (Ahhh, I see, it's the same key on
american keyboards... now I remember again...) still doesn't work.

Glenn Spell wrote:
> What program are you using as 'vi'?

Good question. I'm using vim 5.3, cygwin w/o gui build by Michael
Hirmke from
ftp://ftp.franken.de/pub/win32/develop/gnuwin32/cygwin/porters/Hirmke_Michael/B20

Regards,
Corinna



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Re: Re[2]: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Michael Weiser]

Hello Chris, you wrote:
>>I'd love to do so if someone pointed me to some useful resource.
>>Or do you just mean some paragraph mentioning, that this is a known
>>issue and even you don't have an idea how to work around it? That
>>wouldn't be much of a problem.
>I was under the impression that others had worked around this problem.
>Since Cygwin does little besides notice that a specific key is hit, I
>don't understand why there is a problem.
I'd be glad to give you a hint if I could. But aside from just
fiddling with the problem I'm reading every word said on that thread
and will of course let you know about any information I gain.
-- 
bye, Michael

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Re: Re[2]: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Michael Weiser]

Hello Paul, you wrote:
>>>  What happens is that whenever I run bash using the standard supplied cygnus
>>>icon, everything works just fine (environment, bashrc, HOME) except the cursor
>>>keys... I can't edit my command line neither browse through bash's history.
>[]
>MW> To Cygwin developers: Is this a known issue or should I compile some
>MW> information about it and send it to you?
>    It is known issue and really FAQ here. NEVER-EVER use m$
Oh, sorry, I didn't know that. I follow this list regularly and didn't
ever see something useful on that concern. I read the FAQ, searched
the list archives on every phrase that might mean cursor keys and just
completed another grep over my local archive. Can you please tell me
where I missed it?
-- 
bye, Michael

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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Chris Faylor]

On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 11:11:38PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
>But there are more problems with keystrokes that are not specific to
>cygwin but are nevertheless disturbing. Example vi: When I learnt
>using vi, I learnt three commands which are very convenient:
>
>	Ctrl + 6	change to alternative file
>	Ctrl + ^	ditto
>	Ctrl + ]	goto tag under cursor
>
>All commands never worked with a vi under cygwin. AFAIK this is a
>problem of native keyboards under win32. The key combinations
>doesn't unfortunately generate any ascii characters. On the german
>keyboard the circumflex is a dead key for national characters (though
>not existing in german language), the brackets are only reached by
>using the right Alt key (Alt Gr).

Ok.  This one I understand.  There would probably be no problem adding
this functionality.

>Conclusion: The cursor problem of 9X and special key handlings
>on native keyboards will result in problems for all times.
>I would be glad, if there would be a solution to make a special key
>mapping in cygwin that is independent of [no]tty setting and used OS.
>This could be e.g. a .cygkey file in the home directory or something
>comparable.
>IMHO, this should be addressed in the future (b22).

Yep.  We could have some kind of capability which allowed you to define
keys, similar to linux.

That's definitely B22 functionality.

-chris

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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Chris Faylor]

On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 06:38:09PM -0400, Chris Faylor wrote:
>On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 11:11:38PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
>>But there are more problems with keystrokes that are not specific to
>>cygwin but are nevertheless disturbing. Example vi: When I learnt
>>using vi, I learnt three commands which are very convenient:
>>
>>	Ctrl + 6	change to alternative file
>>	Ctrl + ^	ditto
>>	Ctrl + ]	goto tag under cursor
>>
>>All commands never worked with a vi under cygwin. AFAIK this is a
>>problem of native keyboards under win32. The key combinations
>>doesn't unfortunately generate any ascii characters. On the german
>>keyboard the circumflex is a dead key for national characters (though
>>not existing in german language), the brackets are only reached by
>>using the right Alt key (Alt Gr).
>
>Ok.  This one I understand.  There would probably be no problem adding
>this functionality.

Actually, I just tried ctrl-6 and ctrl-] and both "work form me".

-chris

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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Nuno Bandeira]

  Hi Paul,

Paul Sokolovsky wrote:
> Nuno Bandeira <nb@di.fct.unl.pt> wrote:
> NB>   Nevertheless, I would be a much happier person if I could understand your
> NB> answer :). Where is the default localizer configured and how could I
> NB> reconfigure it ?  Any man pages, helps, FAQs or howtos on this ?
> 
>     Ok, what about something like this?
> --------------
> Q: Why cursor keys doesn't work under Win95/Win98?
> A: [ ... ]

  Ahhhh, you meant Windows keyb in autoexec.bat! That thought would never
cross my mind because everything works just fine in every Win98/command.com
application. My problem is specifically with the default cygwin bash window,
so I don't think I'll be messing around with my Windows config for what is
probably a known problem.
  Anyway, if the developers are interested I can gather information about 
my system and mail it. For starters I am using an english Win98 with a
Pt (Portuguese standard) keyboard and a keyb po,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\keyboard.sys
line in my autoexec.bat.

  I worked around this problem by using rxvt-2.6PRE2-w32z (updates in 
http://www.io.com/~bub/rxvt.html ) and everything works just fine.

  Thanks for your help anyway.

  Best regards,

---
Nuno Bandeira
nb@di.fct.unl.pt

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Re: Re[2]: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Chris Faylor]

On Sat, Aug 21, 1999 at 03:53:12PM +0000, Michael Weiser wrote:
>Hello Chris, you wrote:
>>>>MW> To Cygwin developers: Is this a known issue or should I compile some
>>>>MW> information about it and send it to you?
>>>>    It is known issue and really FAQ here. NEVER-EVER use m$
>>>Oh, sorry, I didn't know that. I follow this list regularly and didn't
>>Can someone provide a FAQ entry for this, please?  I don't understand
>>what's going on or how to work around it.
>I'd love to do so if someone pointed me to some useful resource.
>Or do you just mean some paragraph mentioning, that this is a known
>issue and even you don't have an idea how to work around it? That
>wouldn't be much of a problem.

I was under the impression that others had worked around this problem.
Since Cygwin does little besides notice that a specific key is hit, I
don't understand why there is a problem.

cgf

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Re[2]: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Paul Sokolovsky]

Hello Michael,

Michael Weiser <michael@weiser.saale-net.de> wrote:

>>  What happens is that whenever I run bash using the standard supplied cygnus
>>icon, everything works just fine (environment, bashrc, HOME) except the cursor
>>keys... I can't edit my command line neither browse through bash's history.
[]
MW> To Cygwin developers: Is this a known issue or should I compile some
MW> information about it and send it to you?

    It is known issue and really FAQ here. NEVER-EVER use m$
localizers for your console font/keyboard layout (keyb and stuff)!
Use your favorite local localizer you used last 10 years
(keyrus for cyrillic, for example). (It doesn't mean you won't have
problems with it, but probably problems won't be so stupid as
inability to use cursor keys).

MW> bye, Michael


Best regards,
 Paul                            mailto:paul-ml@is.lg.ua



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Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Nuno Bandeira]

  I have already checked in the FAQ, User Manual and mailing lists archives and
haven't been able to find any reference on how to solve this problem.
  What happens is that whenever I run bash using the standard supplied cygnus 
icon, everything works just fine (environment, bashrc, HOME) except the cursor
keys... I can't edit my command line neither browse through bash's history.
  I have a /etc with the supplied termcap (I am using B20.1) and I have also
tried with no /etc/termcap. According to the archives this should lead to a
built-in table in libtermcap being used... still nothing happens.
  Any help or thoughts on the subject would be greatly appreciated.

-- 
---
Nuno Bandeira                      | email: nb@di.fct.unl.pt
Universidade Nova de Lisboa        | Tel: +351-1-294 8536 (ext.0766)
Faculdade de Ciencias e Tecnologia | Fax: +351-1-294 8541
Dept.Informatica - Qta. da Torre, 2825-114 Caparica, PORTUGAL

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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Corinna Vinschen]

Nuno Bandeira wrote:
> 
> Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> >
> > Chris Faylor wrote:
> > > >On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 11:11:38PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> > > >[...]
> > > >>All commands never worked with a vi under cygwin. AFAIK this is a
> > > >>problem of native keyboards under win32. The key combinations
> > > >>doesn't unfortunately generate any ascii characters. On the german
> >
> >     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >     Remember this...
> 
>   Well, then I guess rxvt must be using any other way of processing keyboard
> input, because it works just fine for me.
>   Maybe a paradigm shift is in order for future cygwin keyboard handling
> versions? :)

Wow!

I have tried it just now. You're right, it works. But why???

It doesn't work with standard NT console window, regardless of the
setting of [no]tty and it also doesn't work in a terminal emulation
window (TeraTerm 2.3) via Sergey's telnet.

Corinna


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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Glenn Spell]

On 22 Aug 1999 around 6:41PM (-0400) Chris Faylor wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 06:38:09PM -0400, Chris Faylor wrote:
>
> >On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 11:11:38PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> >
> >>All commands never worked with a vi under cygwin.
>
> Actually, I just tried ctrl-6 and ctrl-] and both "work form me".

What program are you using as 'vi'?

-glenn

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  ________________________________________      _       _____
 )                                        )_ _ (__\____o /_/_ |
 )    Glenn Spell <glenn@gs.fay.nc.us>    )     >-----._/_/__]>
 )________________________________________)               `0  |

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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Michael Weiser]

Hello Nuno, you wrote:
>  What happens is that whenever I run bash using the standard supplied cygnus 
>icon, everything works just fine (environment, bashrc, HOME) except the cursor
>keys... I can't edit my command line neither browse through bash's history.
A friend of mine had the same problem with his German Win98 and after
a lot of searching in the mailing list archives, creative guessing and
just trying all weird keys I ever thought of I figured out, that at
least for him it works when he enables Num-Lock and uses the cursor
key representations on the numeric key block instead.

To Cygwin developers: Is this a known issue or should I compile some
information about it and send it to you?
-- 
bye, Michael

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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Chris Faylor]

On Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 11:15:49AM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
>Chris Faylor wrote:
>> >On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 11:11:38PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
>> >[...]
>> >>All commands never worked with a vi under cygwin. AFAIK this is a
>> >>problem of native keyboards under win32. The key combinations
>> >>doesn't unfortunately generate any ascii characters. On the german
>
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>    Remember this...
>
>> Actually, I just tried ctrl-6 and ctrl-] and both "work form me".
>
>Congratulations!
>Maybe you are using an american keyboard? ;)

Ah.  Yes.  The fact that I was using an American keyboard was kinda what
started this.  Remember?

>BTW: When I use american keyboard layout with my german keyboard the
>ctrl-] works but ctrl-6 and ctrl-^ (Ahhh, I see, it's the same key on
>american keyboards... now I remember again...) still doesn't work.
>
>Glenn Spell wrote:
>> What program are you using as 'vi'?
>
>Good question. I'm using vim 5.3, cygwin w/o gui build by Michael

I'm using vim 5.0, built by me.

-chris

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Re: Re[2]: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Chris Faylor]

On Fri, Aug 20, 1999 at 08:39:59PM +0000, Michael Weiser wrote:
>Hello Paul, you wrote:
>>>>  What happens is that whenever I run bash using the standard supplied cygnus
>>>>icon, everything works just fine (environment, bashrc, HOME) except the cursor
>>>>keys... I can't edit my command line neither browse through bash's history.
>>[]
>>MW> To Cygwin developers: Is this a known issue or should I compile some
>>MW> information about it and send it to you?
>>    It is known issue and really FAQ here. NEVER-EVER use m$
>Oh, sorry, I didn't know that. I follow this list regularly and didn't
>ever see something useful on that concern. I read the FAQ, searched
>the list archives on every phrase that might mean cursor keys and just
>completed another grep over my local archive. Can you please tell me
>where I missed it?

Can someone provide a FAQ entry for this, please?  I don't understand
what's going on or how to work around it.

-chris

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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Corinna Vinschen]

Chris Faylor wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Aug 23, 1999 at 11:15:49AM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> >Chris Faylor wrote:
> >> >On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 11:11:38PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> >> >[...]
> >> >>All commands never worked with a vi under cygwin. AFAIK this is a
> >> >>problem of native keyboards under win32. The key combinations
> >> >>doesn't unfortunately generate any ascii characters. On the german
> >
> >    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >    Remember this...
> >
> >> Actually, I just tried ctrl-6 and ctrl-] and both "work form me".
> >
> >Congratulations!
> >Maybe you are using an american keyboard? ;)
> 
> Ah.  Yes.  The fact that I was using an American keyboard was kinda what
> started this.  Remember?
> 
> >BTW: When I use american keyboard layout with my german keyboard the
> >ctrl-] works but ctrl-6 and ctrl-^ (Ahhh, I see, it's the same key on
> >american keyboards... now I remember again...) still doesn't work.

Hi!

Maybe, this mail is a bit painful for me but I have really never tested
it before:

After checking the german keyboard settings more detailed, I found that
the above mentioned command yet work!

It seems that on non-american keyboards the control characters are
generated by the same _keys_ as on the american keyboard and not by
the keys with the corresponding ascii character as I have expected.

The following appears on the german keyboard:

- ctrl-6 is really a ctrl-^ which is ASCII \036.
  The circumflex is generated with shift-6 on am. keyb.
  So the same ascii code is generated by ctrl-shift-6 on ge. keyb.

- ctrl-] is ASCII \035.
  The right bracket is generated by the rightmost key in the second
  row (the row with the TAB key) besides the return key on am. keyb.
  So the same ascii code is generated by ctrl-+ on ge. keyb.

- Moreover I found: ctrl-\ is ASCII \034.
  The backslash is generated by the rightmost key in the third row
  besides the return key on the am. keyb.
  So the same ascii code is generated by ctrl-# on ge. keyb.

Chris, your tiny patch to fhandler_console.cc to let ctrl-6 work
as ASCII \036 works in console window on ge. keyb., too, so I think
it will work on any native keyboard layout with latin character set.

Of course, in a terminal emulation one has to use the standard keys
as described above (ctrl-shift-6, ctrl-+ and ctrl-# on ge. keyb.).

I would be _very_ interested in experiences with other native
keyboards. Would other readers of this mailing list be so kind to
tell me, if the mentioned control characters are generated in the
same way on their keyboards?

Best Regards,
Corinna

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Re: Cursors do not work in bash under Win98

[Nuno Bandeira]

Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> 
> Chris Faylor wrote:
> > >On Sun, Aug 22, 1999 at 11:11:38PM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> > >[...]
> > >>All commands never worked with a vi under cygwin. AFAIK this is a
> > >>problem of native keyboards under win32. The key combinations
> > >>doesn't unfortunately generate any ascii characters. On the german
> 
>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     Remember this...

  Well, then I guess rxvt must be using any other way of processing keyboard 
input, because it works just fine for me.
  Maybe a paradigm shift is in order for future cygwin keyboard handling 
versions? :)
  
  Best regards,

---
Nuno Bandeira
nb@di.fct.unl.pt

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