Re: why must cygwin be first in path?

Re: why must cygwin be first in path?

[Earnie Boyd]

--- Steven Schram <sschram@aircell.com> wrote:
> The only way I have found to get GNU Make to execute properly from the NT
> Command Shell is to put the cygwin directory first in the PATH variable.

It has always been advised to put the Cygwin directory first in the PATH.  This
hasn't changed in anyway.

> Otherwise, 'make.exe' has that strange delay (about 3 seconds) I mentioned a
> while back.  Does this give anyone a clue as to why there is a delay at all?
> 

What network devices are on the PATH?

Regards, 

=====
Earnie Boyd < mailto:earnie_boyd@yahoo.com >
Cygwin Newbies, please visit
< http://www.freeyellow.com/members5/gw32/index.html >
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Re: why must cygwin be first in path?

[Bob McGowan]

Earnie Boyd wrote:
> 
> --- Steven Schram <sschram@aircell.com> wrote:
> > The only way I have found to get GNU Make to execute properly from the NT
> > Command Shell is to put the cygwin directory first in the PATH variable.
> 
> It has always been advised to put the Cygwin directory first in the PATH.  This
> hasn't changed in anyway.
> 
> > Otherwise, 'make.exe' has that strange delay (about 3 seconds) I mentioned a
> > while back.  Does this give anyone a clue as to why there is a delay at all?
> >
> 
> What network devices are on the PATH?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> =====
> Earnie Boyd < mailto:earnie_boyd@yahoo.com >

Regarding the path, I think the primary reason for having Cygwin first
is so the Cygwin tools are found first in a path search.  I have the NT
Resource Kit installed and it has versions of ls.exe, rm.exe, vi.exe,
etc., which I don't want (usually) to run.  They don't understand the
Cygwin environment, so if they get picked up instead of the Cygwin
version while running something like a makefile or a script, strange
things can happen.

As to the delay of startup for 'make' from a command prompt, I just did
the following experiment.  I am a test engineer working with NT2K, so I
had a "clean" (OS just installed) system available and installed the
Cygwin CD 1.0 files.  After the suggested reboot, I opened a command
prompt window and started bash there, timing it with my wristwatch.  It
took just over 4 seconds to print a prompt.  I exited the bash shell and
immediately restarted it.  The delay was less than half a second this
time.  Only local drives are in the path.  However, the path was the
default after install, which has the Cygwin paths _after_ the NT paths.

This looks to me like it is partly a disk read/load issue.  Code for
both bash and the DLL need to be read into RAM from disk the first time,
the second time most if not all is in RAM and so the read delay is
eliminated.  This is a guess on my part, I am not an NT internals
expert.  Some of the delay may be due to other events that I know
nothing about.

Since I seldom (never, actually) use the command prompt, I don't see
this type of delay, probably because the DLL code is in use due to the
bash shell started from the 'Start' menu shortcut and so is immediately
available to use when other tools (like make) run.

-- 
Bob McGowan
Staff Software Quality Engineer
VERITAS Software
rmcgowan@veritas.com

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RE: why must cygwin be first in path?

[Steven Schram]

How fast is your test computer?  In my case, bash takes no perceptible time
to start -- no matter whether cygwin1.dll is currently loaded or has been
loaded recently.   On the other hand, make starts quickly but pauses before
processing the Makefile only if the PATH is arranged 'incorrectly' and only
if the pause hasn't occurred in the last 10 seconds.  It seems important to
note that the delay happens every 10 seconds even if make is executed
repeatedly.  Also, it need not be executed from an interactive shell.  I use
Visual SlickEdit and it executes make via a non-interactive cmd.exe shell.
The delay does occur in this case.

BTW, thanks for running the test.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob McGowan [ mailto:Robert.McGowan@veritas.com ]
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 1:21 PM
To: earnie_boyd@yahoo.com
Cc: cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com
Subject: Re: why must cygwin be first in path?


Earnie Boyd wrote:
>
> --- Steven Schram <sschram@aircell.com> wrote:
> > The only way I have found to get GNU Make to execute properly from the
NT
> > Command Shell is to put the cygwin directory first in the PATH variable.
>
> It has always been advised to put the Cygwin directory first in the PATH.
This
> hasn't changed in anyway.
>
> > Otherwise, 'make.exe' has that strange delay (about 3 seconds) I
mentioned a
> > while back.  Does this give anyone a clue as to why there is a delay at
all?
> >
>
> What network devices are on the PATH?
>
> Regards,
>
> =====
> Earnie Boyd < mailto:earnie_boyd@yahoo.com >

Regarding the path, I think the primary reason for having Cygwin first
is so the Cygwin tools are found first in a path search.  I have the NT
Resource Kit installed and it has versions of ls.exe, rm.exe, vi.exe,
etc., which I don't want (usually) to run.  They don't understand the
Cygwin environment, so if they get picked up instead of the Cygwin
version while running something like a makefile or a script, strange
things can happen.

As to the delay of startup for 'make' from a command prompt, I just did
the following experiment.  I am a test engineer working with NT2K, so I
had a "clean" (OS just installed) system available and installed the
Cygwin CD 1.0 files.  After the suggested reboot, I opened a command
prompt window and started bash there, timing it with my wristwatch.  It
took just over 4 seconds to print a prompt.  I exited the bash shell and
immediately restarted it.  The delay was less than half a second this
time.  Only local drives are in the path.  However, the path was the
default after install, which has the Cygwin paths _after_ the NT paths.

This looks to me like it is partly a disk read/load issue.  Code for
both bash and the DLL need to be read into RAM from disk the first time,
the second time most if not all is in RAM and so the read delay is
eliminated.  This is a guess on my part, I am not an NT internals
expert.  Some of the delay may be due to other events that I know
nothing about.

Since I seldom (never, actually) use the command prompt, I don't see
this type of delay, probably because the DLL code is in use due to the
bash shell started from the 'Start' menu shortcut and so is immediately
available to use when other tools (like make) run.

--
Bob McGowan
Staff Software Quality Engineer
VERITAS Software
rmcgowan@veritas.com


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Re: why must cygwin be first in path?

[Bob McGowan]

tbisp@uswest.net wrote:
> 
> Bob McGowan wrote:
> [SNIP]
> > Cygwin CD 1.0 files.  After the suggested reboot, I opened a command
> > prompt window and started bash there, timing it with my wristwatch.  It
> > took just over 4 seconds to print a prompt.  I exited the bash shell and
> > immediately restarted it.  The delay was less than half a second this
> > time.  Only local drives are in the path.  However, the path was the
> > default after install, which has the Cygwin paths _after_ the NT paths.
> 
> Sorry about the personal mail instead of through the list, but mail from this account
> bounces, and my-deja's mail is currently down.  Could you try unsetting a few mail
> related variables in your bash startup files and let me know if that speeds up
> the initial start time. I have a smaller startup time even with a massive amount
> of functions being read in. (I have 3 startup files!) The variables and commands are:
>  unset MAIL
>  unset MAILPATH
>  unset MAILCHECK
> 
> Please let me know if this helps or hinders. Also please include the output of this:
>  set | grep BASH
> 
> --
> AJ Reins - tbisp<AT>uswest.net -or- aj.reins<AT>usa.net -or- tbisp<AT>my-deja.com
> 
> If there is no time like the present,
>  but we never have the time,
> does this mean there is no present?

-- 
Bob McGowan
Staff Software Quality Engineer
VERITAS Software
rmcgowan@veritas.com

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Re: why must cygwin be first in path?

[Bob McGowan]

Good question, I should have mentioned that info.  The machine is a dual
cpu system, 100 MHz each (slow), with 128 MB RAM.  SysInfo says I have
about 400 MB virtual memory.

So, I checked on a different machine, with 500 MHz cpu (single) but same
RAM and virtual size.  Starting bash from a command prompt takes less
than a second.

Steven Schram wrote:
> 
> How fast is your test computer?  In my case, bash takes no perceptible time
> to start -- no matter whether cygwin1.dll is currently loaded or has been
> loaded recently.   On the other hand, make starts quickly but pauses before
> processing the Makefile only if the PATH is arranged 'incorrectly' and only
> if the pause hasn't occurred in the last 10 seconds.  It seems important to
> note that the delay happens every 10 seconds even if make is executed
> repeatedly.  Also, it need not be executed from an interactive shell.  I use
> Visual SlickEdit and it executes make via a non-interactive cmd.exe shell.
> The delay does occur in this case.
> 
> BTW, thanks for running the test.
> 
> Steve
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob McGowan [ mailto:Robert.McGowan@veritas.com ]
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 1:21 PM
> To: earnie_boyd@yahoo.com
> Cc: cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com
> Subject: Re: why must cygwin be first in path?
> 
> Earnie Boyd wrote:
> >
> > --- Steven Schram <sschram@aircell.com> wrote:
> > > The only way I have found to get GNU Make to execute properly from the
> NT
> > > Command Shell is to put the cygwin directory first in the PATH variable.
> >
> > It has always been advised to put the Cygwin directory first in the PATH.
> This
> > hasn't changed in anyway.
> >
> > > Otherwise, 'make.exe' has that strange delay (about 3 seconds) I
> mentioned a
> > > while back.  Does this give anyone a clue as to why there is a delay at
> all?
> > >
> >
> > What network devices are on the PATH?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > =====
> > Earnie Boyd < mailto:earnie_boyd@yahoo.com >
> 
> Regarding the path, I think the primary reason for having Cygwin first
> is so the Cygwin tools are found first in a path search.  I have the NT
> Resource Kit installed and it has versions of ls.exe, rm.exe, vi.exe,
> etc., which I don't want (usually) to run.  They don't understand the
> Cygwin environment, so if they get picked up instead of the Cygwin
> version while running something like a makefile or a script, strange
> things can happen.
> 
> As to the delay of startup for 'make' from a command prompt, I just did
> the following experiment.  I am a test engineer working with NT2K, so I
> had a "clean" (OS just installed) system available and installed the
> Cygwin CD 1.0 files.  After the suggested reboot, I opened a command
> prompt window and started bash there, timing it with my wristwatch.  It
> took just over 4 seconds to print a prompt.  I exited the bash shell and
> immediately restarted it.  The delay was less than half a second this
> time.  Only local drives are in the path.  However, the path was the
> default after install, which has the Cygwin paths _after_ the NT paths.
> 
> This looks to me like it is partly a disk read/load issue.  Code for
> both bash and the DLL need to be read into RAM from disk the first time,
> the second time most if not all is in RAM and so the read delay is
> eliminated.  This is a guess on my part, I am not an NT internals
> expert.  Some of the delay may be due to other events that I know
> nothing about.
> 
> Since I seldom (never, actually) use the command prompt, I don't see
> this type of delay, probably because the DLL code is in use due to the
> bash shell started from the 'Start' menu shortcut and so is immediately
> available to use when other tools (like make) run.
> 
> --
> Bob McGowan
> Staff Software Quality Engineer
> VERITAS Software
> rmcgowan@veritas.com

-- 
Bob McGowan
Staff Software Quality Engineer
VERITAS Software
rmcgowan@veritas.com

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RE: why must cygwin be first in path?

[Earnie Boyd]

--- Steven Schram <sschram@aircell.com> wrote:
> Basically as a porting layer so I can use GNU software.  Why do you ask?
> 

I was trying to determine if you were using Cygwin for it's intended purpose
(adding a POSIX layer on top of Win32) or if you were just using it for the
User Interface portion.  If you don't need the POSIX layer I was going to
suggest that you look at Mingw and the links at
http://www.egroups.com/group/mingw32 .

> I tested "sh -c make -f makefile.mk" and it does the same thing as before.
> I see the same results when executing from a bash shell started from a cmd
> shell.  If I execute bash from cygnus.bat pointed to by a shortcut, I don't
> get the delay.
> 

Hmm.  Interesting.  Are the environment variables that are set by the
cygnus.bat file, already existing in your Win32 environment?

> If I really want to chase this down, it looks like I will need to dive into
> Make with gdb.
> 

Possibly, but that would lead you to debugging Cygwin as well.

Regards,

=====
Earnie Boyd < mailto:earnie_boyd@yahoo.com >
Cygwin Newbies, please visit
< http://www.freeyellow.com/members5/gw32/index.html >
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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Re: why must cygwin be first in path?

[Corinna Vinschen]

Only a short hint:

I have no problem with this and I don't have cygwin first in path.

In my NT environment, $PATH looks like

    PATH=%SystemRoot%\system32;%SystemRoot%; ... ;D:\my\cygwin\bin

so all Windows tools are found earlier than the cygwin binaries.

When I'm starting a cygwin tool, I always use a shell or a shell
script that does whatever should be done:

    D:\my\cygwin\bin\sh whatever_should be_done.sh

This shell script begins with s.th. like that:

    #!/bin/sh
    PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin:$PATH

Now all cygwin tools are found first.

If you are using the shell interactive, you can use /etc/profile
to set the path in this way.

Hope, this helps,
Corinna

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RE: why must cygwin be first in path?

[Steven Schram]

Basically as a porting layer so I can use GNU software.  Why do you ask?

I tested "sh -c make -f makefile.mk" and it does the same thing as before.
I see the same results when executing from a bash shell started from a cmd
shell.  If I execute bash from cygnus.bat pointed to by a shortcut, I don't
get the delay.

If I really want to chase this down, it looks like I will need to dive into
Make with gdb.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Earnie Boyd [ mailto:earnie_boyd@yahoo.com ]
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 9:16 AM
To: Steven Schram; Bob McGowan
Cc: cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com
Subject: RE: why must cygwin be first in path?


--- Steven Schram <sschram@aircell.com> wrote:
> How fast is your test computer?  In my case, bash takes no perceptible
time
> to start -- no matter whether cygwin1.dll is currently loaded or has been
> loaded recently.   On the other hand, make starts quickly but pauses
before
> processing the Makefile only if the PATH is arranged 'incorrectly' and
only
> if the pause hasn't occurred in the last 10 seconds.  It seems important
to
> note that the delay happens every 10 seconds even if make is executed
> repeatedly.  Also, it need not be executed from an interactive shell.  I
use
> Visual SlickEdit and it executes make via a non-interactive cmd.exe shell.
> The delay does occur in this case.
>

So, exactly what are _you_ using Cygwin for?  Are you using the POSIX layer
of
Cygwin?

What happens if you modify the make command to be "sh -c 'make'"?  Do you
see
the same results when executing make from bash?

Regards,

=====
Earnie Boyd < mailto:earnie_boyd@yahoo.com >
Cygwin Newbies, please visit
< http://www.freeyellow.com/members5/gw32/index.html >
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com


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RE: why must cygwin be first in path?

[Earnie Boyd]

--- Steven Schram <sschram@aircell.com> wrote:
> How fast is your test computer?  In my case, bash takes no perceptible time
> to start -- no matter whether cygwin1.dll is currently loaded or has been
> loaded recently.   On the other hand, make starts quickly but pauses before
> processing the Makefile only if the PATH is arranged 'incorrectly' and only
> if the pause hasn't occurred in the last 10 seconds.  It seems important to
> note that the delay happens every 10 seconds even if make is executed
> repeatedly.  Also, it need not be executed from an interactive shell.  I use
> Visual SlickEdit and it executes make via a non-interactive cmd.exe shell.
> The delay does occur in this case.
> 

So, exactly what are _you_ using Cygwin for?  Are you using the POSIX layer of
Cygwin?

What happens if you modify the make command to be "sh -c 'make'"?  Do you see
the same results when executing make from bash?

Regards,

=====
Earnie Boyd < mailto:earnie_boyd@yahoo.com >
Cygwin Newbies, please visit
< http://www.freeyellow.com/members5/gw32/index.html >
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

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RE: why must cygwin be first in path?

[Steven Schram]

I can access files in system32 just fine.

The simplest case I have done that fails is
PATH=c:\;d:\cygnus\cygwin-b20\H-i586-cygwin32\bin;(...rest of path)

It seems to not matter if there are a lot of files in the preceding
directories.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Karakashian [ mailto:tonyk@genbrew.com ]
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 11:23 AM
To: 'Steven Schram'; cygwin@sourceware.cygnus.com
Subject: RE: why must cygwin be first in path?


This IS odd.  I have seen some cases where the path, etc will become screwed
up because things like %systemroot%\system32, etc aren't the first items in
the path.  What ends up happening is it can't find things like net.exe, ,
notepad...and then, even if you explicitely place the system32 directory in
the path, it STILL can't find anything in there.  Do you have that problem?
How many items in YOUR path and the system path before the cygwin directory?
What happens if you put it second or third?  The items in your path prior to
cygwin, are they stuffed full with files the system has to wade through
before cygwin?  If the directory paths are cached, that would explain the 10
second search the first time, then it shrinks to 3.

-T

> The only way I have found to get GNU Make to execute properly from the NT
Command Shell is to put > the cygwin directory first in the PATH variable.
Otherwise, 'make.exe' has that strange delay
> (about 3  seconds) I mentioned a while back.  Does this give anyone a clue
as to why there is
> a delay at all?


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RE: why must cygwin be first in path?

[Tony Karakashian]

This IS odd.  I have seen some cases where the path, etc will become screwed
up because things like %systemroot%\system32, etc aren't the first items in
the path.  What ends up happening is it can't find things like net.exe, ,
notepad...and then, even if you explicitely place the system32 directory in
the path, it STILL can't find anything in there.  Do you have that problem?
How many items in YOUR path and the system path before the cygwin directory?
What happens if you put it second or third?  The items in your path prior to
cygwin, are they stuffed full with files the system has to wade through
before cygwin?  If the directory paths are cached, that would explain the 10
second search the first time, then it shrinks to 3.

-T

> The only way I have found to get GNU Make to execute properly from the NT
Command Shell is to put > the cygwin directory first in the PATH variable.
Otherwise, 'make.exe' has that strange delay 
> (about 3  seconds) I mentioned a while back.  Does this give anyone a clue
as to why there is 
> a delay at all?

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Re: why must cygwin be first in path?

[Steven Schram]

Several people have suggested that it might be related to having network
devices in the PATH.  Good suggestion, but it is not the case.  I don't have
any network devices in PATH.

Steve

At 11:46 AM 2/3/00 , you wrote:
>The only way I have found to get GNU Make to execute properly from the NT
>Command Shell is to put the cygwin directory first in the PATH variable.
>Otherwise, 'make.exe' has that strange delay (about 3 seconds) I mentioned
a
>while back.  Does this give anyone a clue as to why there is a delay at
all?
>
>As a refresher, the delay only occurs if it has been at least 10 seconds
>since the last delay commenced.
>
>Steve
>


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why must cygwin be first in path?

[Steven Schram]

The only way I have found to get GNU Make to execute properly from the NT
Command Shell is to put the cygwin directory first in the PATH variable.
Otherwise, 'make.exe' has that strange delay (about 3 seconds) I mentioned a
while back.  Does this give anyone a clue as to why there is a delay at all?

As a refresher, the delay only occurs if it has been at least 10 seconds
since the last delay commenced.

Steve


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