GNU/Windows

GNU/Windows

[J. Grant]

Hello RMS,
I agree with your postion on calling a Linux system GNU/Linux.  Have you
considered using the name GNU/Windows when refering to machines that use
the RedHat Cygwin UNIX envoroment?  This would be good publicity for
the GNU tools that are installed on Windows machines. Also it would make
it well known that many Windows machines use GNU software for shell
scripting and other tasks supported by the Cygwin enviroment.

Regards

JG




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Re: GNU/Windows

[Christopher Faylor]

On Mon, Apr 15, 2002 at 01:12:56PM +0900, J. Grant wrote:
>I agree with your postion on calling a Linux system GNU/Linux.  Have you
>considered using the name GNU/Windows when refering to machines that use
>the RedHat Cygwin UNIX envoroment?  This would be good publicity for
>the GNU tools that are installed on Windows machines. Also it would make
>it well known that many Windows machines use GNU software for shell
>scripting and other tasks supported by the Cygwin enviroment.

I don't see how naming is really anyone's decision but Red Hat's.  We
own Cygwin.  Certainly Cygwin owes a lot to the GNU tools from FSF but
we are not going to be renaming the distribution because of that.  I
think it would be confusing to refer to it by two names.

Even if that was not the case, we can't use the word "Windows" in this
connotation since there are, arguably, trademark issues with doing that.
We used to use the term gnu-win32 but were asked to change.  I think
that part of the reason was that we don't want to use the word "win"
with relation to Windows.

Finally, to follow your analogy, the name would be GNU/Cygwin anyway,
not GNU/Windows.  Cygwin is equivalent to Linux in this scenario.

cgf

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Re: GNU/Windows

[Roland Glenn McIntosh]

For the record, I assumed that JG was being sarcastic, because that idea sounded so foreign to me.



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Re: GNU/Windows

[Ryan T. Sammartino]

On Mon, Apr 15, 2002 at 12:49:16AM -0400, Roland Glenn McIntosh wrote:
> For the record, I assumed that JG was being sarcastic, because that idea sounded so foreign to me.


I dunno... I re-read that e-mail several times but was unable to
determine if it was entirely serious or not:

- if it was meant to be funny, it failed.
- if it wasn't meant to be funny, it failed.


Anyways... shouldn't it be GNU\Windows? 

<rim shot>

-- 
Ryan T. Sammartino
http://members.shaw.ca/ryants/
WHOA!!  Ken and Barbie are having TOO MUCH FUN!!  It must be the
NEGATIVE IONS!!

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Re: GNU/Windows

[J. Grant]

Hello cgf,

The idea was from a conversation I had with some co-workers, not
entirely seriously but thank you for your reply setting the facts straight.

Windows has been established as a reasonable generic word IMO, with the
Lindows case this was hinted at reciently.

JG

Christopher Faylor wrote:
 > On Mon, Apr 15, 2002 at 01:12:56PM +0900, J. Grant wrote:
 >
 >>I agree with your postion on calling a Linux system GNU/Linux.  Have you
 >>considered using the name GNU/Windows when refering to machines that use
 >>the RedHat Cygwin UNIX envoroment?  This would be good publicity for
 >>the GNU tools that are installed on Windows machines. Also it would make
 >>it well known that many Windows machines use GNU software for shell
 >>scripting and other tasks supported by the Cygwin enviroment.
 >>
 >
 > I don't see how naming is really anyone's decision but Red Hat's.  We
 > own Cygwin.  Certainly Cygwin owes a lot to the GNU tools from FSF but
 > we are not going to be renaming the distribution because of that.  I
 > think it would be confusing to refer to it by two names.
 >
 > Even if that was not the case, we can't use the word "Windows" in this
 > connotation since there are, arguably, trademark issues with doing that.
 > We used to use the term gnu-win32 but were asked to change.  I think
 > that part of the reason was that we don't want to use the word "win"
 > with relation to Windows.
 >
 > Finally, to follow your analogy, the name would be GNU/Cygwin anyway,
 > not GNU/Windows.  Cygwin is equivalent to Linux in this scenario.
 >
 > cgf
 >
 >
 >




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Re: GNU/Windows

[Tim Prince]

On Monday 15 April 2002 04:22, J. Grant wrote:
> Hello cgf,
>
> The idea was from a conversation I had with some co-workers, not
> entirely seriously but thank you for your reply setting the facts straight.
>
> Windows has been established as a reasonable generic word IMO, with the
> Lindows case this was hinted at reciently.
>
> JG
Unlike Lindows, cygwin doesn't require a lawsuit from Microsoft to establish 
credibility, while a greater level of tolerance from Microsoft would be a 
significant advantage.
-- 
Tim Prince

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Re: GNU/Windows

[Christopher Faylor]

On Mon, Apr 15, 2002 at 08:22:19PM +0900, J. Grant wrote:
>The idea was from a conversation I had with some co-workers, not
>entirely seriously but thank you for your reply setting the facts
>straight.

So, sending this email RMS was a joke, then?  Are you guys personal
friends who enjoy a good laugh?  Or did you just forge the header?

>Windows has been established as a reasonable generic word IMO, with the
>Lindows case this was hinted at reciently.

You're aware of what the term "arguably" means, right?

cgf

>Even if that was not the case, we can't use the word "Windows" in this
>connotation since there are, arguably, trademark issues with doing
>that.

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Re: GNU/Windows

[Chris Tooley]

On Mon, 2002-04-15 at 10:26, Christopher Faylor wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2002 at 08:22:19PM +0900, J. Grant wrote:
> >The idea was from a conversation I had with some co-workers, not
> >entirely seriously but thank you for your reply setting the facts
> >straight.
> 
> So, sending this email RMS was a joke, then?  Are you guys personal
> friends who enjoy a good laugh?  Or did you just forge the header?
> 
> >Windows has been established as a reasonable generic word IMO, with the
> >Lindows case this was hinted at reciently.
> 
> You're aware of what the term "arguably" means, right?

Even the possibility that it could be construed as a trademark
infringemnet means paying lawyers and consuming time, meaning it's just
not worth it most of the time.  Someone like Richardson at Lindows can
fight battles like that (I really think he enjoys court more than
development), but real development teams should be doing development not
fight trademark infringement, it's a pointless waste of resources.

Chris Tooley
> 
> cgf
> 
> >Even if that was not the case, we can't use the word "Windows" in this
> >connotation since there are, arguably, trademark issues with doing
> >that.
> 
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Re: GNU/Windows

[J. Grant]

hello cgf,

Christopher Faylor wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2002 at 08:22:19PM +0900, J. Grant wrote:
> 
>>The idea was from a conversation I had with some co-workers, not
>>entirely seriously but thank you for your reply setting the facts
>>straight.
>>
> 
> So, sending this email RMS was a joke, then?  Are you guys personal
> friends who enjoy a good laugh?  Or did you just forge the header?

I don't forge headers, and "not entirely seriously" != "just for a 
laugh".  If GNU tools are installed on a Microsoft Windows machine why 
should they not get credit? why should Cygnus not get credit either? It 
was mearly a sugestion, you seem to have taken it out of context.

>>Windows has been established as a reasonable generic word IMO, with the
>>Lindows case this was hinted at reciently.
>>
> 
> You're aware of what the term "arguably" means, right?

Well this email seems to be degenerating now, but "Windows" can mean 
more than a MS OS as that is the most common meaning, X Windows is one.

I agree with what Chis Tooley said in his email though, he seems to have 
recieved a copy of the email as well, or did you just forge the header?

JG


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Re: GNU/Windows

[Elmar Haneke]

J. Grant wrote:

> I agree with your postion on calling a Linux system GNU/Linux.  Have you
> considered using the name GNU/Windows when refering to machines that use
> the RedHat Cygwin UNIX envoroment?

(Debian) GNU/Linux is an Linux-Distribution using GNU-GPL. GNU/Windows 
in analogy should be an Windows-distribution using GNU-GPL - you might 
ask Microsoft to release :-)

Elmar




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Re: GNU/Windows

[Warren Postma]

Quoth JG:
> Hello RMS,
> I agree with your postion on calling a Linux system GNU/Linux.  ...

I think we should all refer to his Stallman-ness, as "GNU/RMS".   As for
Cygwin, I think the
RedHat representative said it best:  It's their baby, so they get to name
it.

In the case of the Linux kernel, Linus owns it, and Linus named it.

Thanks to GNU/RMS, for GNU/EMACS, which I never GNUse if I don't have to.

VI Forever! <grin>

Warren




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Re: GNU/Windows

[Roberto J Dohnert]

Warren Postma wrote:

>Quoth JG:
>
>>Hello RMS,
>>I agree with your postion on calling a Linux system GNU/Linux.  ...
>>
>
>I think we should all refer to his Stallman-ness, as "GNU/RMS".   As for
>Cygwin, I think the
>RedHat representative said it best:  It's their baby, so they get to name
>it.
>
>In the case of the Linux kernel, Linus owns it, and Linus named it.
>
>Thanks to GNU/RMS, for GNU/EMACS, which I never GNUse if I don't have to.
>
>VI Forever! <grin>
>
>Warren
>
>
>
>
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>
Amen, but its not VI forever !! its Pico forever :)  as for GNU/Windows 
that is about the stupidest thing I ever heard, Cygwin is a great name. 
 next thing you know someone will want them to name it Red Hat Windows :)



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Re: GNU/Windows

[Richard Stallman]

    I agree with your postion on calling a Linux system GNU/Linux.  Have you
    considered using the name GNU/Windows when refering to machines that use
    the RedHat Cygwin UNIX envoroment?

No, because in that case the whole Windows system is still there.
GNU/Linux means "the GNU system, modified by changing the kernel."
Just adding some GNU software to another operating system
is not at all the same thing.  The result is not "basically the GNU
system" in that latter case.

Have you read http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html?

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