From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5608 invoked by alias); 2 Mar 2002 01:37:30 -0000 Mailing-List: contact cygwin-help@cygwin.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: cygwin-owner@cygwin.com Received: (qmail 5553 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 01:37:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO uhura.concentric.net) (206.173.118.93) by sources.redhat.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 01:37:29 -0000 Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff.concentric.net [206.173.118.90]) by uhura.concentric.net [Concentric SMTP Routing 1.0] id g221bSB06435 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:37:28 -0500 (EST) Errors-To: Received: from Clemens.cris.com (da003d0188.sjc-ca.osd.concentric.net [64.1.0.189]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id UAA02865; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:37:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301171339.00ab5258@pop3.cris.com> X-Sender: rrschulz@pop3.cris.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:37:00 -0000 To: From: Randall R Schulz Subject: Re: "local install"? In-Reply-To: <003a01c1c186$8ad66790$0200a8c0@lifelesswks> References: <20020301101318.16349.qmail@oak.oeko.net> <20020301101318.16349.qmail@oak.oeko.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020301073006.024b18c8@pop3.cris.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020301075448.00aaf730@pop3.cris.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020301160226.02538020@pop3.cris.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020301164449.029d6750@pop3.cris.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-SW-Source: 2002-03/txt/msg00058.txt.bz2 Rob, [ Our mails are crossing, so just know that I've read both the post I'm replying to directly here and the subsequent amplification. I think we are mostly just agreeing, albeit loudly. ] >It did *what* ? How do you reproduce it? Grumble. That must be an even-day bug, because when I went to try to reproduce it just now, the mis-behavior was gone. Here's what I remember. About a half-dozen package updates had been announced since I last updated, so I decided to use them as a test case for the new setup.exe. It (NEW setup.exe) downloaded the bulk of those packages (including their source bundles) and then reported an error (a size mis-match, if I recall correctly) and offered to download again. I say OK and it downloaded ALL of those packages again, this time without error. Then, for whatever reason, I decided to run through the download again from the top, and NEW setup.exe it listed all those packages as requiring download. All this was with my old trusty favorite mirror: http://mirrors.rcn.net. At that point, I went back to the previous setup.exe (2.125.2.10) and downloaded (again) and installed the latest package updates. Sorry to alarm you. Sadly, at this point all I can say is that it could have been cockpit error (occasionally I forget to switch the radio buttons to one of "Download ..." or "Install from Local Directory") or it could have been a glitch in setup.exe itself. If more details surface, I'll pass them along. More below... At 17:06 2002-03-01, Robert Collins wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Randall R Schulz" > > >Randall R Schulz wrote: > > > > > >>I tried the NEW setup. Let's say it has some problems still. I'll >switch > > >>when the kinks are worked out. > > > > > > > > >Okay, so when you said "how can I..." you meant "I know it's supposed >to > > >work, but it doesn't for me." That's a bug report. Thanks. > > > > Let me clarify. Once the NEW setup.exe violated some of my expectations > > (like knowing enough not to download the same packages over and over again > > even though they are right there where it put them the last time) I stopped > > using it. So my attempt to shift- or CTRL- click in the mirrors list was > > done with setup.exe vers. 2.125.2.10 > >It did *what* ? How do you reproduce it? Where they (a) from the same >mirror, or where you (b) chopping and changing mirrors with each run? If >(b) then that is somewhat-expected, and future enhancements will address >this. However, the goal is that you select *all* the mirrors you want to >download from and then just use those again and again. If (a) then tell me >*exactly* what you do to make it happen, and send the .log and .log.full >from a couple of runs please. > > > > >Using a REAL mirroring tool will insulate you from such surprises -- but > > >if you're willing to deal with the changes in setup's behavior, good > for you. > > > > This I don't understand. If Setup doesn't locally maintain the files it > > downloads as a "mirror" of the site from which it downloaded them, then how > > does wget or any other mirroring tool serve me better? If I mirror using > > wget or FTP Voyager will I be able to install? I surely don't want 300 > > megabytes of files for their own sake or just to be able to say I have > > them. I want a local package set that I can use to install. Since a local > > script execution phase has been added to the installer, manual installation > > is, it seems, not an option at all. I've never wanted to do so, but the > > point is that we depend on setup.exe to do installation, so any manner of > > retrieving the files to install that is not directly usably by setup.exe > > for the installation per se is not very useful. > >You're more than welcome to help create the command line installer. One >patch has been submitted, and feedback given, but no futher news has been >heard. Likewise I've put qutie some effort towards making the engine of >setup be able to run under unix, and when that is combined with command >line parameters, there will exist a mirroring tool that understands >setup.ini's and can run from a script etc. etc. And yes, setup.exe will do >the right thing if you use wget or FTP voyager - always. We won't break that. That's all very nice, but I'm actually completely contented with what we have now. Let me be clear that I have no problems or complaints with setup (old or new, with the now retracted exception described above). I'm very happy with what you (all) have given us. Considering I started using Cygwin with b18, you can understand that I have a fair perspective on the improvements, including but not limited to installation support, over the past several years. It's just that I have a hard time accepting the repeated admonition that setup.exe is "not a mirroring tool" when clearly it mirrors Cygwin just fine, for my purposes. I cannot see why one would use it for any other purpose, and perhaps that's what you're trying to forestall. I certainly do reach for wget for all my general-purpose mirroring and Internet retrieval--I love it! > > I'm a software developer, too. I fully understand and accept the need to > > keep one's options open. Ideally this is done by careful wording of specs. > > I guess that doesn't really apply here, since we're not talking about an > > API or any other highly formal (or very complex) specification. > > Nonetheless, I'm more than happy accommodate such hedges and reserved and / > > or (pre-) announced behavior changes (e.g., removal of the old > > interpreatation of the "//" file name prefix in the Cygwin DLL). It would > > be nice to know, of course, what the anticipated change is. Just saying > > "Here's a feature. It's there in plain sight. Please don't use it." without > > adding "lest you risk ..." is kind of hard to accept. > >I've not said that :}. Chuck didn't say that either. Paraphrasing what he >said : 'don't expect setup.exe to behave like a mirroring tool'. And >'don't depend on the setup.exe local cache dir structure to remain the same'. OK, but if the "local cache dir" is not a mirror, as is commonly understood, then telling me to use a tool such as wget that will produce a conventional "mirror image" is asking me not to be able to install. Either setup.exe "mirrors" the download site, or a conventional "mirroring" tool is unusable as a substitute for the download functionality of setup.exe. I don't see how it can be both. >Rob Randall Schulz Mountain View, CA USA -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/